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What if Saruman Got The One Ring? | Tolkien Theory

  • Published on Sep 30, 2023 veröffentlicht
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Comments • 0

  • Nerd of the Rings
    Nerd of the Rings  4 months ago +48

    Check out The Long-Expected Soundscape: jordanrannells.com/shop
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    • Anne Vandermey
      Anne Vandermey 4 months ago +2

      Jordan’s soundscape is pure genius! It was such an amazing experience to be involved! Thanks for sharing!

    • CrookedRosePOD
      CrookedRosePOD 4 months ago +1

      What about Tom Bombadil lol

    • A Long Expected Soundscape
      A Long Expected Soundscape 4 months ago +4

      @CrookedRosePOD Tom Bombadil is in the Soundscape! played by Phil Dragash, some may recognize that name :) You'll hear him singing away in the distance :) and Goldberry singing :D

    • Angel
      Angel 4 months ago +3

      Jordan has done such an incredible job, I’ve been listening to the FOTR soundscape almost on a daily

    • MrsAzlChang
      MrsAzlChang 4 months ago +1

      Faramir meets Eowyn...got goosebumps from that.

  • Jon Stark
    Jon Stark 4 months ago +627

    *As much as he wanted to play Gandalf… Sir Christopher Lee was absolutely PERFECT to play Saruman. His commanding and stoic presence along with his cunning voice was just again…PERFECT casting.🙏🏼*

    • Slywerk
      Slywerk 4 months ago +18

      Yep to bad in my opinion they cut out his best chapters.
      Voice of Sauron and than talking to him as they leave didn't have to have the whole thing but seeing a beaten Saruman near the shire was one of my favorite parts.
      Still mocking them even though beaten and bruised.
      I didn't like the Extended scenes of Saruman either.

    • specialunit 042
      specialunit 042 4 months ago +6

      @Slywerk A pity, but don't forget that there is only so much you can put into a film. Alot has to be cut out sometimes and even then, things have to be mixed/changed for an audience rather than readers. Cinema's won't show films if they are too long, and DVD's can only hold so many hours.

    • Slywerk
      Slywerk 4 months ago +3

      @specialunit 042 They had enough time to put that horrible roof top scene in the extended they could've done it there change if they want but it could've been done.
      Note I just said the meeting Saruman part not the whole reckoning of the shire.
      Lee deserved a much bigger role anyway name me one villain that was better I can't because we didn't spend much time with any of them even in the books.
      (I'm talking about the 3 I know much more information was written about the Witch King and Sauron and Morgoth)
      Did they even do the scene with Saruman near the horses I don't remember.

    • Slywerk
      Slywerk 4 months ago +1

      @alogcbin I really don't feel like writing a whole opinion on it.
      There are several reasons but I'd just ask you read it yourself and compare page 199-212.
      One thing I guess off the top of my head that I could say is even though defeated Saruman is still a powerful wizard in this chapter and you get a feel for his ability.
      In the movie he just seems like a begging man and a fool.

    • Slywerk
      Slywerk 4 months ago +1

      @alogcbin Well yes and comparison he does seem like a begging man full of hatred which he was in the books but until gandalf broke his staff he still handled himself with more grace I do not see it as you say but we all have our own opinions.
      And no we get nothing close to what his actual voice power was like inside the movies we hear of it but never see it.
      When Saruman faced them in the books until gandalf pressed upon him it was like he was fully in control even though he was completely defeated.
      The random fire ball you're gonna make me fate that was horrible.
      I will come said Gimli I wish to see him and learn if he really looks like you.
      And how will you learn that master dwarf said gandalf. Saruman could look like me in your eyes if it suited his purpose with you. And are you yet wise enough to detect all his counterfeits?
      When others spoke they seemed harsh and uncouth by contrast and if they gainsaid the voice anger was kindled in the hearts of those under the spell.
      The Voice of Saruman is my favorite part of the series.
      I guess a better word would be a whimpering man.

  • ThaMuffinMan
    ThaMuffinMan 4 months ago +289

    The effort that went into this video & theory story is just next level. You’re the best man

    • Nerd of the Rings
      Nerd of the Rings  4 months ago +21

      Thanks so much! And thanks for watching and subscribing!

  • Ryan Mathews
    Ryan Mathews 3 months ago +68

    You should do a theory video on what if Sam insisted on bringing Bill the Pony the whole way? How far could they have realistically made it bringing a pony everywhere?

    • Owen
      Owen 3 months ago +19

      LMFAO surely the balrog would cower in fear against the trusted steed Bill

    • halleck3
      halleck3 9 days ago

      Bahahahaha best comment today

  • Oğuzhan Enes Çetin
    Oğuzhan Enes Çetin 4 months ago +571

    He would buy an anti-tree defence around Isengard

    • Brett
      Brett 4 months ago +39

      And lo did Saruman spray Round-Up upon the Ents of Fangorn.

    • Billy Bob
      Billy Bob 4 months ago +21

      @Brettin this story, Saruman loses to Monsantos team of lawyers.

    • Jeffrey Jeziorski
      Jeffrey Jeziorski 4 months ago +5

      The first flame throwers on middle earth

    • Rosie Hawtrey
      Rosie Hawtrey 4 months ago +2

      @Brett Lovely stuff. My dad had fun with that when they moved into their bungalow when I was a kid. He did the roundup and diesel trick, then rotavated the back garden 4 times, then dug it out 4 times, then cleared out all the scaffolding pins and other rubbish, until he found a live grenade from WW2 by the garage... We came home to a bomb disposal truck..

  • Tom Bombadil
    Tom Bombadil 4 months ago +106

    I want a story-heavy, open world, LOTR game where these scenarios are possible based on player interactions and choices.

    • GC SNIPE
      GC SNIPE Month ago +10

      Tom be real, you would never leave the Old Forest. You would miss, Goldberry.

    • Filip Eriksson
      Filip Eriksson Month ago +3

      Have you looked into the Kingdoms of Arda mod for Mount and Blade 2? Still very much in development but it looks to become exactly what you're looking for.

    • Rook (CapColdblood)
      Rook (CapColdblood) Month ago +3

      I would encourage you to check out Divide and Conquer, a mod for Medieval II Total War. It’s a complete and total conversion mod that turns the entire game into Lord of the Rings in The Third Age, and one of my favorite moments is Isengard when you get the Ring and Saruman becomes the Lord of the Ring.

    • Two Door
      Two Door 12 days ago

      @Hidetaka Miyazaki hear tom's words and make the magic part of this world!

      KEROVSKI 6 days ago

      @Filip Eriksson It's just not the same. If you could play a first person game, fighting massive armies, going through Middle Earth, that would be incredible.

  • Botros Reda
    Botros Reda 4 months ago +160

    The description of the voice of Saruman perfectly shows how well cast Sir Christopher Lee was in the role. Man's voice was simply iconic.
    "Suddenly another voice spoke, low and melodious, its very sound an enchantment. Those who listened unwarily to that voice could seldom report the words that they heard; and if they did, they wondered, for little power remained in them. Mostly they remembered only that it was a delight to hear the voice speaking, all that it said seemed wise and reasonable, and desire awoke in them by swift agreement to seem wise themselves. When others spoke they seemed harsh and uncouth by contrast; and if they gainsaid the voice, anger was kindled in the hearts of those under the spell. For some the spell lasted only while the voice spoke to them, and when it spake to another they smiled, as men do who see through a juggler's trick while others gape at it. For many the sound of the voice alone was enough to hold them enthralled; but for those whom it conquered the spell endured when they were far away, and ever they heard that soft voice whispering and urging them. But none were unmoved; none rejected its pleas and its commands without an effort of mind and will, so long as its master had control of it."

    • Orgus Din
      Orgus Din 4 months ago +2

      Read the entire thing in his voice, can confirm.

    • virtualatheist
      virtualatheist 4 months ago +1

      ​@Orgus Din I tried, but ended up just repeating, "To Isengard," over and bloody over!

  • Valentin Kambushev
    Valentin Kambushev 4 months ago +126

    I wonder if at some point, Faramir and Eowyn's rebels would be approached by new allies. Two blue pilgrims from the east, leading an army of alikely thinking men, seeking any form of resistance that is willing to stand up against their former leader.

  • Jim
    Jim Month ago +3

    I was always under the impression that only Sauron can use the rings power properly, and that it is always seeking to reunite with him. I've always believed that any scenario that involves someone claiming the ring for themself is ultimately serving Sauron's end. It will inevitably return to him.

  • Rafael Gustavo
    Rafael Gustavo 4 months ago +122

    He would have his telepathic ability greatly increased. In this way, he would control the Nazgûl (Unfinished Tales version), the Orcs, Trolls, Wargs and other evil creatures in the Misty Mountains.
    If Sauron didn't attack soon (logistically impossible with the existence of Gondor), he would be outmatched and overthrown. I imagine that this way Saruman would have two strong domains in the end: Isengard and Mordor.

    • Istari
      Istari 4 months ago +10

      Sauron had armies arranged along a very long front. He had both the forces and the geography to send an army into Rohan from the north either from the Black Gate or from Dol Guldur.

    • Cabbadath B
      Cabbadath B 4 months ago +4

      @Istari You're right, this theory ignores the substantial armies of Dol Guldur.

    • rghyffrgg syvht
      rghyffrgg syvht 2 months ago

      Don't think he can overthrow sauron. Only the good can.

  • Parasmunt
    Parasmunt 21 day ago +2

    Saruman was one of the most interesting characters in the book, the Voice is especially a fascinating concept. Imagine going to Saruman and even from a distance you hear a musical voice and feel your heart lifted, you want to sit down and listen forever not turning into an automaton you still have your faculties but just completely charmed and beguiled. Imagine the power of that. The Sirens from Greek mythology would be an analogy.

  • FieryCheeze
    FieryCheeze 4 months ago +60

    Okay, now I want more of this Faramir & Eowyn alternate universe!

  • Chip Rogers
    Chip Rogers 4 months ago +17

    I would love to see you do a video answering “what if Saruman came down?” In the Voice of Saruman in the books, Gandalf offers him the chance to redeem himself and help them one last time. What might have happened had he repented and joined our heroes?

    • Chris Snyder
      Chris Snyder 4 months ago +1

      Well, Saruman would not have trashed the Shire, so the Hobbits would not be coming home to a big mess. As for the rest, since the Fellowship & Frodo won their battles without Saruman, I supposed having him on their side probably would not have created a much different outcome.

    • Andrew Main
      Andrew Main 3 months ago +5

      "He may have rendered great service"
      He might have been instrumental at the Battle of Pellenor (sic?) Fields. His voice may have bolstered the defenders of Minas Tirith against the fear instilled by the Nazgûl. Or perhaps he could have laid enchantments upon mumaks or felbeasts. Many that would have died might have lived. It would not change the outcome of the war, but an extra wizard would have changed many lives.
      My two cents.

  • Steve Slothstorm
    Steve Slothstorm Month ago +1

    Loving these theory videos. In the Balrog video you mention how it's possible the Balrog of Moria might act as an ally to Sauron and it would be awesome to see a theory video considering what effect a more active Balrog would have on middle earth.

  • Phoenix Studios Prime
    Phoenix Studios Prime 2 months ago +4

    I love how this video is structured, laying groundwork from the cannon before turning to theory. The epilogue was fantastic

  • Myriad Media Musings
    Myriad Media Musings 4 months ago +57

    Oooh now this is a possibility I never considered! Loved your previous what if installments, theyre like an extra special event.
    If you dont mind me throwing out my own suggestion: What if Isildur survived Gladden Fields? Meaning that his company still gets ambushed, sons killed and stll loses the ring, but doesnt get felled by arrows?

    • Daarom
      Daarom 4 months ago

      would much have been different really?
      I wonder what would've happened if during the Nirnaeth Arnoenidad the evil men hadn't been evil and betrayed their allies, would the alliance have won and what wod the landscape look like afterward?

    • Hellbane224
      Hellbane224 4 months ago +1

      To be fair, losing the Ring is WHY he got felled by arrows. He put on the Ring and dove into the water to try to escape, but the Ring did what the Ring likes to do and abandoned him, leaving him exposed.

  • Braixen Delphox
    Braixen Delphox 3 months ago +10

    The artists who lend their art to these videos are nothing short of incredible, Christopher Lee's likeness is completely spot on.

  • Jonathan Bodonathan
    Jonathan Bodonathan 4 months ago +4

    Never thought of it until watching this but.....boromir trying to take the ring IS what SAVED the quest.
    Else, this likely WOULD have been what happened.

  • Corey Richmond
    Corey Richmond 4 months ago +34

    Excellent theory. It sounds almost like Saruman obtaining the ring and taking over Middle Earth would be akin to Tolkien's worst industrialization nightmare

    • Andreas Jensen
      Andreas Jensen 3 months ago

      This has no place in The Lord of the Rings "Tolkien's worst industrialization nightmare" Why would you mix them together?

    • Y W
      Y W Month ago +1

      ​@andreasjensen3853 the desecration of nature for the sake of industrialisation is a very prominent motif in Lotr tho so it's not at all far-fetched

    • Andreas Jensen
      Andreas Jensen Month ago

      @Y W Have you ever read what Tolkien wrote about people drawing parallels to the real world and his work? He hated it.

    • Y W
      Y W Month ago +2

      @andreasjensen3853 Tolkien might've disliked allegory but Lotr is quite obviously allegorical. Tolkien freely admitted so himself in his letters
      And the industrialisation and deforestation of Isengard are in no subtle way depicted as evil

    • Andreas Jensen
      Andreas Jensen Month ago

      @Y W Yeah obviously people can put more meaning into words than what they were meant to at the time they were written. "I think the text is a metaphor for bl bla bla" is straight out wrong if the writer mentions the fact that is NOT a metaphor for anything. He admitted that the LOTR trilogy was allegorical? Please give the source for that. In my copy of the first book it clearly states that it is not meant to give a secondary meaning.

  • Primal123
    Primal123 4 months ago +23

    I'm not sure how powerful he would be, but he would definitely be more powerful than he already was

  • Michael Zislis
    Michael Zislis 4 months ago +1

    I love these theory videos! Just finished yet another read through of LOTR and wanted to add these to your list in case you didn’t have enough awesome content ideas in the pipeline 😅
    - What if Sam takes the ring
    - What if Faramir takes the ring
    - What if Aragon takes the ring
    - What if Boromir takes the ring

  • Dave Roe
    Dave Roe 4 months ago +11

    I always thought Saruman was never interested in using The Ring except to advance his knowledge in order to craft his own ring.

    • Gilliganfrog
      Gilliganfrog 4 months ago +12

      Wrong. If anything, Saruman's intentions were the exact opposite: he experimented with creating his own rings SOLELY BECAUSE he didn't possess (but very badly lusted after) the One Ring himself.
      Although both beings were Maiar, Sauron was far, far greater & more powerful than Saruman; and Sauron's One Ring was far, far more powerful than anything Saruman could have ever made.

  • Fungo4
    Fungo4 3 months ago +1

    The idea of Saruman turning Middle Earth into an industrial hellscape is so interesting to me. Everything we see him doing in the movies is for the purposes of war, so I'm very curious what he'd be using his industry for once he rules most of the land. Mining I guess?

  • Jon Stark
    Jon Stark 4 months ago +21

    *Seeing Sir Christopher Lee with that kind of power boost would be absolutely EPIC!👏🏼*

    • Autumn in Autumn
      Autumn in Autumn 2 months ago +1

      Would near real life levels of Christopher Lee awesomeness

  • Miguel González Del Pino
    Miguel González Del Pino 4 months ago +2

    Loved the video, man. Such a great take! One of the most interesting "what if" moments on the whole timeline for me is what if the Balrogs would have been too late and shelob had consumed the silmarils and Morgoth. Instead of a main antagonist who is cunning and bides their time the free peoples would have had to face one that was more instinct and hunger-driven

  • CybershamanX
    CybershamanX 4 months ago +1

    Interesting choices for Saruman's actions! I would have never figured what would have happened if he had hidden that he had found the ring from Sauron! Thanks for this interesting "what if"! 😎🤘☮

  • Emils Azanda
    Emils Azanda 4 months ago +1

    I''ve long pondered what would happen if Sam Gamgee, seeing Frodo stung&captured at the Tower of Cirth Ungol, would have claimed the Ring for himself and the Shire? A video on this someday prehaps?

  • Sputnik_
    Sputnik_ 2 months ago +1

    These type of videos are some of the best. would love to see the "Got the one ring" series expand. for example what if Elrond got the ring or Legolas

  • Dennis Brown
    Dennis Brown 4 months ago +1

    Also, wouldn't Sauron destroy the lesser rings once he realized Saruman controlled the Ring Wraths'? Sauron still had those Nazgul rings and had Mount Doom ready at hand. Sauron would immediately realize Saruman had the One Ring and the Nazgul would turn against him.

  • Astral Outlaw
    Astral Outlaw 3 months ago

    Good video as always NOTR. One area in Middle-Earth that interests me the most, and I'm not sure if you or Tolkien covered on it, is the area in the farther southeast known as the Dark Lands. I'm wondering....
    Why is it called that? Is that another area ruled by another evil? Perhaps by Sauron or some other, greater, much darker force? It's something I began to ponder on the most.
    Just to add, I always had this fan theory of what would happen if the Easterlings actually did not fight alongside the orcs nor for Sauron, but rather against them? Would Sauron and his forces even stand a chance against the race of men?

  • Michael Kelley
    Michael Kelley 4 months ago

    Hey Matt, I noticed at the end of the video that you removed the dust-jacket from a lot of the books in your collection. I hope you still have them, but a missing dust-jacket lowers the value among collectors, especially as the edition ages and goes out-of-print. It'll be very important for your grandchildren to have in a 100 years.

  • Doominator 407
    Doominator 407 4 months ago +1

    I love this theory as I’m a big fan of Saruman and Isengard.

  • Preston Durnell
    Preston Durnell 4 months ago

    Could you consider making a video of “What if the Witch King got the one ring” or what would happen if one Nazgûl got all 9 rings for themself? I’m really curious how that would play out if possible at all

  • Island NoWhere
    Island NoWhere 4 months ago +3

    Saruman is my favorite character of lotr.
    Your love for the lore, your meticulous srcutiny of every word's meaning and your unique understanding of Tolkien's imagination always make for amazing videos. But as a fan of Saruman this one is the best of all I have watched on the matter.
    I only wish you would be hired as a writer for some Tolkien's universe related series...

  • SpaceMonkeyBoi
    SpaceMonkeyBoi 4 months ago +57

    What if Gollum killed Sam and Frodo in their sleep?
    What if Eomer took the ring?
    What if Borimir took the ring?
    What if Azog took the lonely mountain? And how would that effect the war if the ring?
    What if the balrog killed the fellowship?
    What if Saruman won helms deep?

    • Jeffrey Jeziorski
      Jeffrey Jeziorski 4 months ago +23

      What if the gaffer obtained possession of the Ring?

    • Nafisa Musah
      Nafisa Musah 4 months ago +4

      What if thranduil took the ring from bilbo when imprisoned in Mirkwood?

    • Brandon Munsen
      Brandon Munsen 4 months ago +3

      What if frodo lost the ring during the journey

    • Hannes SagIchNicht
      Hannes SagIchNicht 4 months ago +29

      What if there was second breakfast?

    • Gabriel Guida Gouveia
      Gabriel Guida Gouveia 4 months ago +2

      What if Isildur had destroyed the one ring ?

    BOBBY_PILGRIM 4 months ago +1

    That epilogue gave me goosebumps! I need more of that!

  • jesusknight1
    jesusknight1 3 months ago

    Have you ever done a video about the Silmarills and their making, powers and histories? That would be most welcome! Thanks for your vids, I'm a new subscriber of your videos and they are amazing!

  • Miraz
    Miraz 3 months ago

    I absolutely love your What If‘s!
    It would be very interesting to see a „What if Faramir got the One Ring“.

  • Noah Naugler
    Noah Naugler 4 months ago +9

    That epilogue is such a tease, now I want this alternate timeline to exist

  • Mark Micco
    Mark Micco Month ago

    Dude this was awesome and by far my favorite scenario of if the white wizard got the ring..... I would love to hear your thoughts on a scenario where the balrog got the ring..... It was so epic and people often don't realize just how close that fire demon was to the ring of power in Moria

  • Vivienne Koo
    Vivienne Koo 4 months ago +33

    Remember what Aragorn said: “The ring only answers to Sauron himself, it has no other master.”

    • Yavuz Sultan Selim Han
      Yavuz Sultan Selim Han 4 months ago +1


    • AtomicHabits🛸
      AtomicHabits🛸 3 months ago +8

      Remember what Tolkien said: 17:05 about gandalf taking the ring as a new dark lord

    • Heather Smith
      Heather Smith 3 months ago +9

      What Aragorn meant by that statement was that mastering the ring, or trying to use its powers for their own purpose, was destined to not actually save middle earth, because the ring would poison everything they did to be for Sauron. Gandalf and Galadriel were both very clear about this. Their challenge wasn't "darn it, if we could just master the ring!", their challenge was refusing the temptation to try.

    • LostBoys Eh
      LostBoys Eh 3 months ago

      @JemRae Aragorn was talking about mortals using the one ring. Even if he wasn’t he was clearly wrong because in that same book Tom B controlled the ring and made it disappear and reappear. Saruman and Gandalf are Maia and could possibly control it as Tolkien says himself.

  • Joseph Gooden
    Joseph Gooden 3 months ago

    Excited to hear about the rebellion and ultimate overthrow of Saruman and the One Ring led by Faramir and Eowyn and aided by the hobbits...

  • Vishnu Naidoo
    Vishnu Naidoo 3 months ago

    Good story!Guaranteed to make you think about how the movies could have ended with a different outcome!

  • Kirk White
    Kirk White 4 months ago

    Daaamn. So many times in this i found myself exclaiming aloud 'yes!' This is how I'd imagined it would go. Very compelling. Excellent work...

  • kevin moore
    kevin moore 4 months ago +2

    You can also consider the possibility of Saruman finding the ring on the remains of Isidur in the Gladden Fields. Him slowly mastering the ring until the welders of the three become aware of him. Him leaving the council, then the council declaring war on Saruman when he refuses to destroy the ring.

  • Dave Hudson
    Dave Hudson 3 months ago

    Great video! Please keep up the good work!

  • Cassandra Buitron
    Cassandra Buitron 4 months ago

    Really excellent stuff. Congrats on almost hitting 1 mil!!

  • Kevin Valentino
    Kevin Valentino Month ago

    Another good possible "What if" would be "If Thranduil got the ring" by capturing Bilbo during his attempt to break out the dwarves during The Hobbit.

  • Derrick Patten
    Derrick Patten 4 months ago +6

    It makes me wonder how the Valar would have reacted if this scenario had come to pass since they were the ones who had sent Saruman to Middle-earth.
    Would Eru Ilúvatar resurrect Gandalf a second time?

    • Kevin Abitz
      Kevin Abitz 4 months ago +1

      Would there be a second War of Wrath?

    • Josh Pettett-dark
      Josh Pettett-dark 4 months ago

      @Kevin Abitz nah it would’ve likely had been a straight massacre of Saruman.

    • shadowlord141
      shadowlord141 9 days ago

      They probably would have to deal with it personally

  • Paolo Antonio Lomotan
    Paolo Antonio Lomotan 4 months ago

    Wow. This theory is amazing. Good job :)

  • Reaper0123
    Reaper0123 4 months ago +2

    Nice theory, and hoping to see more ’what if’s’. And clearly in these ones about claming the ring, the True victor is ”The One”…

  • DSA Data Science team
    DSA Data Science team 4 months ago

    Fantastic theory, making great sense, while the hobbits (including Gollum) appeared to have much less role to play. But awesome stuff to keep fans thinking deeply, well done!

  • Ashernal
    Ashernal 4 months ago

    Fantastic video as always! I absolutely adore these types of videos from you. I know you generally shy away from theory videos as you don’t want to become purely that, but I certainly wish you would do them a bit more often!
    One quick question, is it really so simple to just “claim” the ring? How do you go about doing that when it’s current master is Sauron? Do you have to hold more power than Sauron and convince the ring you would be a better master? Okay sorry, that was more than one. I got carried away haha.

  • Jet Donovan
    Jet Donovan 4 months ago

    I love these what if videos. Keep it up!

    RABEA 4 months ago +10

    Great video!
    but how would Gandalf free King Théoden from Saruman's control if Saruman possesses The One Ring and his power over King Théoden at its fullest ?

    • Alaa Farhat
      Alaa Farhat 4 months ago

      True !!!

    • alaa amasha
      alaa amasha 4 months ago

      Nice notice, so true bro

    • שאדי עמאשה
      שאדי עמאשה 4 months ago

      so true man , good comment

    • Luc Germain
      Luc Germain 4 months ago +1

      I may be wrong but isn't Theoden being possessed by Saruman a movie only thing? Isn't he just weary and influenced by Grima in the books?

  • Alan Shaw
    Alan Shaw 4 months ago +2

    If this scenario was to play out, there must be a greater chance of a meeting between Saruman and Tom Bombadil. That would be interesting.

  • arrjayzor
    arrjayzor 4 months ago +1

    I'm usually not fond of theory videos, but this one was really well done.

  • Ryan Picklesimer
    Ryan Picklesimer 4 months ago +2

    That epilogue was just perfect!

  • Jay's Gaming Corner
    Jay's Gaming Corner 4 months ago

    Awesome video. This theory took a dark turn, fitting considering that it's about Saruman. Keep up the great work

  • badgerpatt
    badgerpatt 4 months ago

    Wow, just wow!!! 🤯 Watching this is like reading a "Choose Your Own Adventure," except way better because it's Tolkien and You!!! ❤⚔️

  • TheZebbson
    TheZebbson 4 months ago

    wow! Insane thinking! You are truly amazing at this! So damn accurate and plausable that it sounds true to the lore hahah

  • Greg Milton
    Greg Milton 3 months ago

    Love these What If's - what if Denethor got the ring??

  • Mussard Lucien
    Mussard Lucien 4 months ago +1

    Very interesting video! Thanks!
    I wouldn't change anything to this "what if" :)
    Maybe there is a timeline that could make Saruman use his voice sooner... Convincing (corrupting?) Theoden and Rohan to join his cause. Because... Are we sure Gandalf the White would be able to free Theoden from Saruman's bewitchment if Saruman has the One Ring?

  • Alfie Williams
    Alfie Williams 4 months ago

    Amazing video,huge fan. compelling and perfectly reasonable within the lore and universe, but that epilogue... you have to do a follow-up 'what if' about that, the whole idea of their meeting would make for a great tale!

  • Timon Lehmann
    Timon Lehmann 4 months ago

    Thank you for your videos. They are right up my alley! However, one question still remains unanswered: What does Saruman do with his Uruk-hai army when he wants to drive out the Orcs and establish a human kingdom?

  • Anuj Gupta
    Anuj Gupta 3 months ago

    Excellent theory. Also, that in Gandalf's corpse, Saruman finds Narya the Great. Imagine the fire power, literally, he gains. The rest of the Elves and Dwarfs stand no chance.

  • Andrew Riker
    Andrew Riker 4 months ago

    I think Eomer’s company encountering the orcs is too certain. I wonder if it is more likely that something happens that prevents the fellowship from breaking. Maybe the company finds Frodo before he and Sam leave. Then the orcs attack. Frodo spooked by the attack, decides to stay with the company after all. They decide they need to get to safe territory asap for fear of other orc attacks - the nearest place is Edoras of whom Aragorn (and Boromir) insist is not in league or swayed by the enemy. By going there they fall into Saruman’s trap and they do not find Gandalf.

  • Everything Everywhere
    Everything Everywhere 4 months ago

    This was awesome. perfect theory all around. Can't wait for a battle between upgraded Gandalf and Saruman with the ring.

  • WayneAnonymous
    WayneAnonymous 2 months ago

    I'm wondering though, shouldn't have Elrond and Galadriel taken actions as well? They certainly immediately knew as well that Saruman had taken it. I think at least Galadriel would have sent a force and maybe even went herself to Isengard. I mean, they even went to Helm's Deep to aid them.

  • Tobias Olausson
    Tobias Olausson 21 day ago

    One who breaks a thing to discover what it is has left the path of wisdom.
    One of my favorite passages from fellowship of the rings, I think the chapter is called the council of Saruman

  • Robert Myers
    Robert Myers 4 months ago +11

    Interesting theory but it’s missing one major player: Manwe.
    Yes the Valar have an annoying tendency to not get involved, but if things get bad enough they have eventually used their might to defeat Morgoth’s forces in the past.
    Sending the Istari was Plan A, as it ideally would allow the free peoples to resist Sauron on their own, and sending back a “powered up” Gandalf after he proved he would not be corrupted by it was further evidence of Manwe’s care for the survival of the free people’s. In the books, that was enough, but had the ring come up Sauron it Saruman, I fully believe the Valar would have intervened directly.

  • Jaimy van Dam
    Jaimy van Dam 4 months ago

    Great video. Still hoping for a "What if the Witch-King claimed the One Ring for his own (on Weathertop)?" or "What if the One Ring was lost forever to the sea (and no one ever claims it)?"

  • Licenciatura En Historia

    Now you should make a video of what would have happened if Ar-Pharazon had obtained The One Ring in the Second Age.

  • Brett
    Brett 4 months ago +2

    Whenever you get your gold play button, you should have it forged into a replica of the one ring.

  • The Black Flame
    The Black Flame 4 months ago +3

    Here's an idea. What if Gollum didn't fall once he got the ring from Frodo, and instead escaped the mountain?
    Or for that matter, if he simply stole it back at some point during the journey not like he didn't have ample chances.

    • FR- joey
      FR- joey 8 hours ago

      I think Nazguls/Orcs would have caugh him on day or another, Gollum was too weak even with the One Ring

  • Nayrael
    Nayrael 4 months ago

    Always great to ser a new entry in this series. What could the next one be? Aragon claiming the ring?

  • TheZombifiedGuy
    TheZombifiedGuy 4 months ago

    This is a very thoughtful imagining, I think. It makes sense that Saruman would seek to manipulate Denethor instead of trying to defeat Gondor militarily at that point - even in canon, he tries to persuade Theoden to make peace. The fact that his voice also brings together men of the east and west against the orcs - though obviously not for benign reasons - is an interesting twist. I can even see how Saruman's powers of persuasion, enhanced by the ring, might lead men of Gondor to turn on the elves; it wouldn't necessarily need to be about dominating their wills so much as exploiting the fact that they would probably see them as recluses who contributed nothing to their defense since the War of the Last Alliance. Those ties aren't as strong as they used to be, and you can see the seeds of a sentiment like that in Boromir at the Council of Elrond when he says it's only because of Gondor that their lands are kept safe.
    Loved the epilogue, by the way. I was wondering how those two figured into things! It feels right.

  • Ondrej Vasak
    Ondrej Vasak 20 days ago +1

    Great video, but I have some questions. In your hypothetical story, when Saruman gets the ring and claims it for himself, Sauron is basically finished. He looses the Nazgul and his physical form and is basically defeated. If that is the case, why does he ever treat him as an ally and help him get the ring to Isengard? I know Sauron never really considered anyone trying to destroy the ring in mount Doom, because he could not understand why would anyone try to destroy it instead of use it for themselves. In that case, he should have well understood that Saruman would very likely try to claim the ring which basically spells doom for him, yet he allies himself with him and sends orcs to escort the ring to Isengard (correct me if I am wrong here). If your analysis of what happens after Saruman gains the ring is correct, then Sauron should treat Saruman as his worst enemy, he is one of the few people who could claim the ring and likely the only one greedy enough to do it.
    That makes me think that Sauron must have had some safeguards in place that could keep that from happening, because if he hadn't, he would have seen Saruman as his biggest threat and not an ally to use and discard later. Certainly bigger threat than the Hobbits and Gandalf and possibly even the elves.

  • Nerd of the Rings
    Nerd of the Rings  4 months ago +18

    What do you think of the theory? Anything you'd change? Did I forget something? Let me know!

    • Anand .v.s
      Anand .v.s 4 months ago +2

      Wait, wouldn't Soldier's from Rivendel and lorien Form Alliance with the Rohirrims and Ents

    • ElectroSkyLight Gaming
      ElectroSkyLight Gaming 4 months ago +2

      Here is the deal: The One Ring will keep magic and prevent the Decay of Middle Earth, albeit in a quite cruel way. After all, the valar left the race of men to its own devices, almost alone.

    • Airick29
      Airick29 4 months ago +1

      How can Gandalf cure Theodan with Sauroman’s power amplified?

    • Lutoures
      Lutoures 4 months ago

      I loved tour theory and storytelling as always, Matt!
      As for changes: I think after claiming the ring and defeating Gandalf, Saruman wouldn't send the Nazgul to Minas Tirith. He would instead let the war play out longer, in order to weaken all other major powers.
      He would eventually side with Men, as you point out, but he would wait to see the results of the battle. If Gondor resisted, he would send an emissary (not the Nazgul, as they would be hidden or spying on the elves for now) and propose an "alliance" to defeat the remaining foes of Gondor, wich would actually enslave Denethor to his will, as he did before with Theoden.
      If the invading armies won, in the other hand, he would go through the same plan over a longer period, pitching men against orcs. The rest would go just as you said.
      I'd add that Fangorn would be absolutely put to ruins, and given to the Men under Saruman's control right away.
      Also, I'm very curious on how the three remaining wizards would react to this scenario. Radagast would likely be the first to confront him, and lose.

    • Istari
      Istari 4 months ago

      @ElectroSkyLight Gaming The Three Elven Rings were intended to help prevent decay, not the One. It's purpose was to allow Sauron to dominate the wearers of the other Rings of Power.

  • Anthony Martell
    Anthony Martell 4 months ago

    I thought Tolkien stated that ONLY Gandalf had the power to rival Sauron while wearing the Ring? I don’t remember the letter number but I do remember him stating that while wearing the Ring of Fire and the One Ring, Gandalf had a 50/50 chance of defeating Sauron in open combat

  • Arin Atema
    Arin Atema 4 months ago +1

    Could you do a theory video on the would happen if the council of Elrond chose a different option then destroying the ring. Such as bringing it to Valinor or keeping it in Rivendell.

  • Jim
    Jim 4 months ago +1

    With his power knowledge I wonder if he could control the power of the ring and control Shouron

  • Destro
    Destro 4 months ago +7

    10 seconds in and I’m pumped for this one 👍🏼

    • Yoost Cool
      Yoost Cool 4 months ago

      dude, 10 seconds in he was still doing the ad read

  • Jakub Hůlka
    Jakub Hůlka 4 months ago

    Great video! One theory that I would love to see on your chanel is What if Gil-Galad survived to the third age. Basically what if he was alive in the events of Lord of the Rings. Love your chanel, love your work. Have a great day.

  • Lilly Liion
    Lilly Liion 28 days ago

    One funny thing I should think is this, Even if he can capture and hold Gandalf the White... I'm sure that Gandalf might be able to escape or else send word to the other three Istari... Radagast, Alastor, and Pallando. Doubtless they would get in contact with the Valar and perhaps more Maiar might come to finish it once and for all.

  • Maciej Pietrzak
    Maciej Pietrzak 3 months ago +1

    There might be a one flaw in that theory. Since you already pointed out, that Saruman's voice would be sttonger with the Ring, it's really doubtfull for me, that Gandalf wpuld be able to break his control over Theoden. And though, Rohan would be in the control of Saruman a whole time.

  • Brenbold
    Brenbold 16 days ago

    With the description we get from Tolkein you cited in this video, Christopher Lee was such a perfect choice for Saruman. RIP.

  • Nafisa Musah
    Nafisa Musah 4 months ago +3

    If Saruman had the one ring, wouldn’t it be more difficult for Gandalf to free theoden from his possession?? Because Saruman would be stronger, destroying Rohan from inside out, meaning the fellowship would have less allies?

  • Midi Music Forever
    Midi Music Forever 4 months ago +1

    Solid theory! I think this is about how it would have played out!

  • No Formal Training
    No Formal Training 4 months ago

    Two very different ideas came to me while watching this.
    First, what if Saruman had not been corrupted and changed sides, but instead managed to carry out his original orders much like Gandalf had?
    Second, what if the One Ring was truly indestructible and not even the fires of Mount Doom could do it any harm at all?

  • Michael Swain
    Michael Swain 19 days ago

    I would have thought that in this narrative line the forces facing off against Saruman would be more extensive. Simply because Saruman has not disrupted the many villages and small holds and without having to fight the battle of helms deep more people would have faith in the Rohirim king. Additionally I would have thought several elven allies might be available, blocking Gondor is one thing but Sauron going all out to hit everywhere leaving Izenguard untouched when it has his priority objective seems weak.

  • DoZe
    DoZe 4 months ago +2

    Your videos are badass dude, you're the bomb!

  • TheKlawwGang
    TheKlawwGang 3 months ago

    I also just thought of another interesting what if you may consider. "What if elrond killed isildur to destroy the ring?".
    Imagine if instead of letting Isildur walk away with the ring he confronted him and threw both him and the ring into the fire? I imagine him going back and being honest about what he did and why as there's no hiding it. The other elves understand it was no easy choice but ultimately the right one for middle earth but the men disagree and a deep resentment starts. Men wage war against the elves with the help of the dwarves who also hate the elves and beat them into submission, subjugation and slavery. Now we have a future where the elves in middle earth are similar to those in the witcher series where a once high a d mighty race are now downtrodden and at the bottom of society.

  • Samjtman1.0
    Samjtman1.0 19 days ago

    Okay, so another offshoot idea. What if Saruman after the battle of Helms Deep saw the error of his ways and repented when given the chance by Gandalf the White?

  • TheKlawwGang
    TheKlawwGang 3 months ago

    Been waiting so long for more of your what if... Stuff. I wonder what would have happened if boromir killed frodo for the ring.

  • Tax Evasion
    Tax Evasion 4 months ago

    I like the turning on the orcs it feels very true to how he’s depicted

  • Saphari Haney
    Saphari Haney 4 months ago

    So what would happen to the ring Saruman made for himself? Would it's power be increased or would nothing happen to it?

  • Jonahch2v9
    Jonahch2v9 4 months ago

    I think the oddest thing in the films was being surprised at his betrayal in the trilogy but then in the Hobbit series it seemed like he already was turning and was at least not fully trusted.

  • Matheus Saraiva
    Matheus Saraiva 4 months ago +2

    I wonder if the Ents would ever attack Isengard, if the Hobbits had never come to Fangorn. And if Saruman was in possession of the One Ring, I think Gandalf would not be able to free Théoden from him.

  • DarkF00L
    DarkF00L 4 months ago

    @Nerd of the Rings - This was an excellent fan theory video. There is, however, one detail you left out: if Saruman defeats Gandalf the White, then he will have both The One Ring AND Gandalf's ring; Narya.