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60 speed manual transmission
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- Published on Dec 21, 2022 veröffentlicht
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Science & Technology
So this is what the transmissions in the Fast and Furious movies look like.
na bro thats ferb's space ride's transmission
It's the stock gear plus the furious multiplayer gear
When did I ask
You won the internet.
@An2TheAtwin stick
a lot of trucks have 24 speed manual transmissions so its amazing to think something like this exists in several real life applications
@Greenbrier Games I've driven an 13 speed transmission a handful of times, I've seen 18 speeds. The majority of manual transmissions that use a gear shifter are 10 speeds. Most trucks are going to, "automatic" transmissions. Funny thing is these automatic transmissions are actually manual transmissions shifted by the the computer on the truck. I've seen these as 12 speeds
@Richard Betel An Allison 18 speed transmission is basically a 6x2x2 pack of 3 transmissions. The 6-holed trans has the "low" speed (lower than 1st gear), the reverse and 4 forward speeds. The other 2 transmissions are the "halves" and the "range". The halves, as their name implies, splits the gears in 2 speeds (1low, 1hi, 2 low, 2hi and so on), by flipping a switch. Range is for selecting between gear 1 and gear 5, gear 2 and gear 6, etc, also selected by flipping a second switch. Some gearing patterns are forbidden by design, so you lose 2 forward gears (you have lo-lo and lo-hi by using the halves, but you can't use the upper range on these, else it voids the warranty because it's not built to do so and it causes excessive wear, their frequent use can be determined by suspect metal flakes in the oil and excessive gear wear).
So you end up with 5X2X2 minus 2 forbidden gear ratios, (=18) in forward, and 2 reverse gears (and 2 forbidden gear ratios in reverse too).
@Michael Floria Tell that to people who own Peterbilts.
@Greenbrier Games if we’re being honest…. “Moderns” are all automafic 🥲 if they are manual they’re usually 10 speeds nowadays. 18s are slowly fading out
@Richard Betel old trucks used two transmissions which were manually shifted with “twin sticks.”
Multiplier gear boxes are quite common in manual tractors. A lot of the one's built around and after the 2000's for example use a 24/24 6 speed with either 4 groups, or 4 intermediate gear that can be changed without clutching.
Some 80's/90's Renault tractors also have a third optional box to make them a 24/24 from a 12/12. This was done by adding a two speed intermediate box to the already existing 3 Groups +4 Gears and Reverser box.
@Jeremy Galloway they made tractors till 2003 when Claas bought out Renault Agriculture, but still made some Renault models till 09, mainly the Celtis.
And to add to XMasters comment, Lamborghini also started out by making tractors, mainly out of WWII surpluses, they only started cars when the Mr. Lamborghini wanted a original Ferrari part for his Ferrari, and even went to Mr. Ferrari, but he said to Mr. Lamborghini something along the lines of 'you're just a tractor builder' or similar, but definitely nothing nice.
So Mr. Lamborghini wanted to show Mr. Ferrari that he can do more.
Now days Lamborghini cars are well now high quality, while Lamborghini Tractors has been part of Same for a long time now, and SDF ever since Same bought Deutz Fahr, with Deutz being the primary brand, and Lamborghini just being the lesser known cheaper option.
Comparable to Audi and VW, just that DF is Audi and Lambo VW, just lesser known.
@XMaster34 Porsche didn't really build tractors for that long though, and the production was sold to MAN, but they stopped a few years after that as well.
@Jeremy Galloway Then let me tell you about the amazing beginnings of Porsche and Ferrari 😁
Never knew Renault made tractors lol. Learn something new every day
I have experience with 3d printing and mechanics myself and let me tell you, this man has to be part insane to have the dedication to design such a complex print. Hats off to you!
I think it's funny that those same weaknesses in 3-D printing also applies to the direction of the grain in Wood projects.
5:34 your solution is to print the pieces separately, not as one piece, then attach them during the build because very little stress will be applied to their junction point.
I thought that's what he would have done since he did glue pieces together at 3:54, but I guess I was wrong. When you look at 6:10, it looks like he just glued the broken piece back on and let it rock.
I don't know about very little stress
Or just use legos instead of 3d printing
Since they're being glued together, incorporating a tab and socket system into the print would assist as well.
@TheAnonymmynona The One Piece is real!
Essentially, if you put power to the other end (your current 'output' shaft), you've created a compound truck transmission.. similar to a Fuller/Eaton RoadRanger. They generally just have a low and a high set for the multiplier, and then 5 ratios behind that, in the case of the 10 speed. You basically run through the 5 gears in the low range and then pop the button up to shift to the high range, and row though the 5 ratios again until you reach the 1:1 ratio on the output. Pretty interesting experiment! A bit lighter than the typical 1000 lbs. or so for an actual compound transmission!😂
You forgot to mention the fact you've effectively duplicated many of the ratios, and that the ideal shift pattern wouldn't be 1 through 12 on 1x, 1 through 12 on 2 x, 1 through 12 on 3x, etc ect, but rather you may have alternate between shifting front and rear to hit all possible ratios in the correct order. But as I mentioned there is significant overlap, so they may be much fewer than 40 unique ratios. At the very least the 1:1 and 2:1 gears in the 12 speed will be duplicated by each successive gear in the 5x multiplier , IE, 2:1 in the 12 speed on the 1x will be the same as 1:1 in the 12 speed on the 2x...
@Chad Blechinger cant we use prime number ratios to avoid overlapping?
I understand what your getting at but my brain won't let the numbers run out. 😐 would you just remove the overlapping combos or avoid them by engineering limits?
@Richard Brooks Shnee so this is pedantic, and I know what you mean, however saying x~2 is inaccurate. I know there's no "almost but just below" symbol in common use but.... Yeah pedantic I know.
What's less pedantic is the difference that causes can be huge in real life scenarios. Most likely this kind of setup would be treated as a reduction gear set rather than an addition gear set like shown here. Now I'm gonna assume it's something like a 1.95 to one, it's not it's closer to 1.9 but to prove my point. Drop this transmission into a 18 wheeler going 70mph with 20 in wheels and that slight gear ratio change is about 117 rpm at a *16 multiplier. Assuming an 18 wheeler is driving at those speeds 5 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 10 years and over the life of the truck it works out to be something like 1,520 gallons of diesel. That could be as high as $7k or 8$k depending on the going price of diesel. Now yes over the life of the vehicle you've probably spend 200,000 or $300,000 of gas. So yeah that's not a huge amount of money comparing how much money you put into the truck, but that's still a couple hundred bucks a year. Not a ton but definitely enough to make a difference.
So to summarize my long drawn out point, even a small difference in gear ratios can be a huge difference in certain scenarios.
@Richard Brooks Shnee No they aren't, also not effectively, if the last ratio is for example ~1.9, which one could call close enough. I agree in the following way: If you want to think of a real life manual gear box in a vehicle, nobody in their right mind wouldn't skip lots of gears, especially alls of those (1,m) ones, also a ratio range of almost 32 is ridiculous for normal vehicles :D
@Maurice Reichert yes they are. The operator would be skipping that last gear as x~2 and x2 are close enough to the same that any rpm differences would be negligible from their standpoint and so there is no worthwhile reason for the overlap. You're going to shift to x2. You're ignoring the point and purpose of a gear box. Effectively the same is wasted and is an overlap in range. Damn near the same output to engine rpm & torque.
Your "but the numbers are slightly different" is obnoxiously pedantic to the point of counterproductivity and ignorant to the point of a drive train.
You can cry technically right all you want. You're effectively wrong.
Incredible Job! Steven, the transmission is so mind blowing to see it in action you did a great job designing how the first transmission gear set continues in to the multiplier gear set your best video yet
Great job
happy holidays Steven.
I have rebuilt transmissions from big trucks.
It’s not as hard to imagine the building process as it’s all simply gears.
To get the different ranges, one can simply add reducers and multipliers to a section behind the main gear set.
The final drive is important here, as it needs to be matched with the horsepower going through the input shaft.
The torque is managed by how robust the gears and shafts are, so little beyond making them hardy enough to stand the maximum torque is the simple part.
Trading speed for the torque is the big trick, because the needed horsepower can be easily overwhelmed by just having too much at the final drive for the engine to keep moving!
Just gotta remember the equations and remember which gear is which though it does help that they'll all splice to together. Gotta love that diesel program in tech schools.
most gear boxes dont increase speed until the highest gear(s). for example, the standard 5 speed transmissions gear significantly down from gears 1-3, 4th gear is direct drive, and fifth gear is slightly over driven. most transfer cases gear down even more, and the diff gears down for the final drive ratio. most cars engines are spinning roughly 3 times faster than the axle in the highest gear. a better design for this is to either flip the input and output so you're always gearing down, or make the 1:1 gear either 6 or 7 and up or down from there, including the multipliers, which to eliminate doubling gear ratios, should be a 5 speed with 1:4.05, 1:2.05. 1:1, 2.05:1, and 4.05:1 or something similar. that way, gear 30 is 1:1 approximately, and every other gear is higher or lower than the input.
So you made a 12 speed transmission with a 5 speed transfer case. Pretty damn cool
I’m curious: did you use even-tuning 2^(1/12) gear ratio steps in your front-gear box? If so, you created essentially a 5-octave mechanical instrument, that’s tuned in a modern temperament tuning!
Hey, you do also technically have CVT gearboxes, they are generally not used in manual gearboxes because it makes no sence too, but some automatics use them, and they have a "infinit" amount of gear ratios between Min and Max :) I think it would be really cool to see you try to make a manual CVT gearbox!
@haraldmbs I'd suggest looking at Claas Dominators, I've work on a 88 SL Maxi, though the things that I did were around the engine.
The variator is at the front right, and quite easy to see with the sides open
@Renault 75-34 MX Oooo, sounds cool, I should look at that sometime
Manual CVT's are also often in combine's, though called variator. They control the thrashing and intake parts.
Driving power is done via a dedicated hydraulic system.
@No, I won't tell you my name. woah thats really cool, I have an altima lease and im always thinking it would actually be pretty cool if there was a lever to control the cvt instead of the garbage tuning. didnt know it ever existed
Ive seen them in drill presses. Just a lever to adjust the ratio
it would be cool to see how different lubricants affect the output shafts speed or the gears smoothness.
I'm surprised those gears were able to take that much torque.
I have considered joining two motorcycle engines together to make two fours into one straight eight, leaving their two transmissions separated. Each transmission would backdrive a different side of a differential, with the resulting output from the ring gear driving the rear tire. Gear ratios from the two transmissions would be averaged by the differential, giving 9 useful ratios out from the two five speed transmissions, or 11 useful ratios from two six speeds. Can you play with that?
@Dick Nemakas I know. The Arial Atom V8 is two Hayabusa engines joined, but only one transmission.
They already do this with Hayabusa engines. Look up amateur F1 Radical cars. Very common in that field. But still VERU COOL. My brother-in-laws are mechanics for these types of race cars.
@craftminer49er I don't see why. It's just a motor swap.
DOT would have something to say about that lmfao
Great video. It would also be a neat opportunity to spin from the other end, and talk about torque.
Hey I love your videos. But if it is even possible could you make an automatic gear box?
Something I've always wanted to see is how the shifter in fwd cars connects to the transmission using cables
Wow that’s very cool I really think 3-D printing is pretty awesome
Those "couplers" you speak of are otherwise known as a synchromesh, they are tapered inside to allow for gears and shafts turning at different speeds, to engage. It gradually brings the layshaft and input shaft up to speed, or synchronization.
@amorag59 so many nuances in transmissions and I'm far from an expert... I do know that dogs refer to teeth on the face rather than the periphery of a gear. They were used as the step between sliding mesh and synchros
@Pytr Bob Yep, those are the "dogs". I thoroughly enjoyed the vid, but it would have added to the learning if he used the real terms such as the shifter forks, dog toother gears etc. Many would have an "ah-ha!" moment when they read about dogbox gearboxes.
This is an unsynchronized gearbox... Those are just shift collars
But how do you do reverse? Car gearboxes have a reverse option so how do you make that?
Also it would be nice to see a video of you putting a gearbox like this (but maybe not this many speed options) in a 3D printed car and use a electric motor to power the input shaft. It would be fun to see how it works while moving around.
Yes, that’s pretty much how a semi truck transmission operates. ⚙️🚛
This is very cool as a model gear box, it would be neat to see you do your level best to make a robust gearbox.
the rod goes into the square hole
btw cool build
lego actually used a "gear multiplier" to make the gearbox in the 911 gt3 rs, chiron, sian fkp and also the daytona sp3
its a 4 speed sequential with a 2x multiplier attached to it, so it can get 8 speeds, in a pretty small package
There are trucks with twin transmissions. When people drove those trucks they would call a twin sticking lol. But it was essentially companies just sticking two of their transmissions together so the combinations of gears was pretty much random and very disorganized. It would take a lot of memorization to properly drive these transmissions. Honestly an impressive feat.
Then there are brownie boxes. Which is pretty much what you built you have a standard transmission with a three or four-speed brownie box that gives you three or four different ranges for your transmission. They are the precursor to the modern load rangers.
@Josh your transmission math is a little wrong, the transmissions would be 5+2 for super and regular 10, 5+2+(2(high range only)) for 13, and 5+2+2(not limited) for 18,
Yes, I know the numbers don't add up to the actual gear counts, its because of how they label and layout the patterns.
13 and 18 have the same pattern with the difference being the splitter useable in low range, the "missing" 2 gears in a 18 are in the "low" position ( 13 has low (low range)/ high low low - high high low (high range w/ splitter), 18 has the low range split as well.
Most drivers only use the "lo" position in the lowest and highest possible ratios (if at all, those gears are extremely low) because the other ratios are barely different, the usual shift method is to go sequential and not use the splitter unless you need to, the splitter basically does 1X/1.5X with X being the gear (1,2,3 ...16,7, etc).
10s will get you there, 13s are better, and 18s are the best.
The reason is because every incline has a gear ratio that maximizes speed for current situation (your weight, your engine, % grade, etc) and an 18 has the best chance of getting you as close as possible to it without going "over".
Most modern semi transmissions are still 2 transmissions, they just share one case and one "stick". Depending on what transmission you have, it can be a 5+4 with low range on the bottom is a 9 speed. A 5+5 is a straight 10. A 5 speed with a splitter is a super 10. You take a 5+4 and add a splitter to the top 4 speed and you get a 13 speed. 5+5 with a splitter on both the bottom and top 4 is a 18 speed. Plus a whole lot more different combos.
I own a 1953 Packard with a 3-on the tree plus a Borg-Warner Overdrive that kicks in above ~25-30 mph. It's very interesting to drive as you go 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Engage overdrive, back down to 2nd (4th) and then back up to 3rd (5th) if you're doing a full gear run. It's not quite as extreme as a twinstick, but it was certainly a bit of a learning curve.
My modded ender 3 v2 produces incredible layer adhesion. I use a high performance fan shroud, titanium heatbrake, copper heatblock and nozzle, dual z, and geared extruder direct drive.
Is there any chance of you showing us a 4 gear manual syncromesh gearbox please?
Just found you. Have you built a turbo system for a car like this? Would be super cool to see.
If you do it really smarty, the compound gearbox can share the intermediate axle removing 1/4 of all the sprockets and also making it a lot more compact.
Maybe you said this in the video and I missed it, but this is very similar to how its done in bikes. Two different sets of gears that can be changed that allow for way more speeds than one set
A couple of the 13& 18 speed semi transmissions ive rebuilt had a double countershaft configuration. allows for a shorter package.
Do the amount of cogs on each gear matter? Are they all the same amount? How about the spacing?
I'd be interested in seeing him 3d print a clutch for this. Hook up a motor and shift through them all
I'm currently with a mechanical engineering major and I still can't believe people had the patience do design stuff even more complicated than this.
This isnt complicated at all
This is essentially how a twin stick semi works, it’s kind fun, less total gears and “speeds” but same concept
The correct terms you're probably looking for is main gearbox and auxiliary gearbox; in your instance you have a 12 speed main box with a 5 speed auxiliary. Semis use an 18 speed which is a 4 speed w/ L main box with a 4 speed auxiliary
Those same weaknesses of 3-D printing also applies to the direction of the grain in Wood projects.
you can always some how mesh the corners of the arm linkages. that way you can print both sides laying down, without supports. all u would need to do is bolt them together, or have a dove tail or something.
Bicycles could have 12 speeds on single chainring and up to 21 speeds on triple charging (speeds "repeats" on gearing with more one chainring), so it's not that uncommon to have more than 7 speeds on bicycles
This was with a derailleur, inner hubs (that uses planetary gears) can only get up to 8 speeds so far
I’d love to see the file for the 3 speed box
To put it in to better terms you have a main and a auxiliary transmission commonly found in older semi trucks
I'd like to know the amount of torque required for each of the different gears and how the multipliers affect the amount of torque to spin each of the different gears
another suggestion for strength you could have added a couple mill sized fillet at the 90 degree angle of the shifting linkages to distribute stress to avoid a break.
I think this is the basis of a dual clutch transmission which has very closely spaced gears and an insanely short shifting time
There's not even a clutch in this video. This is the basis for a split axle transmission or a transfer case more than anything.
Super awesome I would love to see you put this on a child’s car with a brushless motor 😊
with the strength of these prints and the play in that assembly, it wouldn't work. However, the concept is brilliant and would make a funny childrens toy... "my first twin stick"
I love the video. What slicer did you used? Because it looks like prusa slicer and I like to know how to make the organic supports so if it's prusa slicer and you can say hoy to do it I will appreciate it
Where layer lines create weakness or the need for supports, split the model so you can print all of it flat but with a designed connection that will take a screw or with an effective glue area.
You know, you could operate two of those forks with the one four-position lever at the cost of making the gearbox longer.
Instead of this complicated mess you could have used multiple stages. For every new stage with 2 gears you double amount of possible speeds. 6 stages gives you 64 different output settings.
Or you could use a differential / planetary gear to create a "CVT". The engine can move at a fixed speed and the more energy you take from the free spinning output the more energy goes to your actual output. If you then use a dynamo to capture the energy from that free spinning wheel you can produce energy and put that back into movement and it does not wear out. (Compared to a clutch.)
Also note that in cars there are essentially 0 straight gears. (Only the reverse gear in manuals.) Helical gears have more strength, make less noise and also wear less.
12 speed with 5 selectable ranges that's crazy
Most semi trucks have many different transmission combinations. Some may have a 5-speed mounted to a 4-speed transmission
Edit: the example that I mentioned does actually exist
Like the mack quadruplex 20 speed transmission for example.
Can we just appreciate how the music absolutely slaps!
Cool. A cam barrel shifter, split in two like a decade counter and you could have a 60 step sequential! 😵
Reverse input to make it a 56 speed reduction box. Old Semi-Trucks used twin box setups with two 4 speed or a 4 and 5 speed combo.
Yes I know there are 60 combinations but 4 are the same ratio.
If you really break it down, how many unique ratios does it actually have? 1:1 times 4 would be the same as 1:2 times 2, and I can imagine there are more overlapping ratios.
This is exactly the same technique that bicycles with a front and rear derailleur use to give lots of gear ratios.
Really cool I’ll give that, but the trucking industry has been utilizing this technology for years.. they call it a splitter usually because it splits high and low ranges depending on transmissions.. in the U.S. and 18 speed is most common with a splitter
as crazy as it would be, id probably still take a heavy 60speed mt in my car than take a cvt 😅
Can't help but wonder if this could have any practical applications for vehicles, heavy equipment, construction, etc. It'd be impressive it possible.
heavy machinery already use gearboxes similar to this
Future reference older trucks or twin stick trucks would have a 18 speed trans or whatever and a 4 speed spicer so every gear you can break further down using the spicer 4 times so say you had an 18 speed that would be 72 gears if you split every gear into four but the secondary is called a spicer
would be nice if someone would make a 3d printer with a bed that could rotate and/or tilt to allow printing layers in different directions for parts that need extra strength
Could you make a non electric power drill with this?
If this went with a car with a max speed of 200 mph you theoretically could start moving without taking the clutch out slowly or revving. If it wasn't, top gears would probably spin the driveshaft so fast that it would shatter into millions of pieces.
what happens when you engage multiple gears at once?
That's kinda how an 18 speed transmission works in a semi but there's 4 main gates with a high/low range selector and a high/low splitter so technically it's 16 half gears and a high/low range reverse gear
@5:41 I would print a part like that in two pieces and join them after. Also I've seen people have success restarting a print when it's run out of filament etc. I wonder if you could lay a flat part down and get layers to stick to it. Maybe start at high temperature to help it stick and have an enclosed print bed kept at high temperature. Maybe I'm an idiot.
“So how many speeds do you want in your transmission?”
“Y E S”
This is incredible
This is cool, unfortunately with a bit misleading title, given it has only 56 gear ratios 😥 Or your first mention of the higher ratio of the smaller gearbox was correct and it's "almost 2:1" in which case it has 60, but you did not use it in the calculations. I need to know which one's true! 😨
Are you sure this is 60 different speeds, gear 12 has a 1:2 ratio with a 1x multiplier (1:2 overall). Gear 13 goes back to 1:1 ratio in main box but then uses the x2 multiplier gear which would also make it 1:2 overall. This means that every time you go to a different multiplier and back to gear 1 in the main box, the gear ratio is the same. Another example is with 24th and 25th gear, 24th gear uses 1:2 in the main box and a 2x multiplier in the second box (1:4 overall). 25th gear goes back to a 1:1 on main box but a 4x on the secondary box which will result in the same ratio (1:4 overall). This can also be seen with gear 36 and 37, gear 36 is 1:2 in main box, and 4x multiplier in second box (8:1 overall) and gear 37 uses the 8x multiplier and the 1:1 in the main box (1:8 overall). Otherwise it's very impressive how you got so many gears in such a small package.
This is perfect for heavy duty and semi trucks.
Imagine this being inside your engine that thing would fly
Hey super cool that you did a multiplier gearbox
I love these!
Wow this is complicated!
There’s a reason large gear boxes with many speeds use “ranges” in essence a second gearbox that shifts the entire range of the second gear box
It’s just more efficient
Wonder what this would look like is a similar layout to Koenigsegg's LST
Imagine a sportscar with this inside...
If you're looking to cut down your noise/chatter between gears maybe try helical cut? That's the solution the auto industry came up with, not sure how functional it would be for you
This is AMAZING
how it feels to drive an Australian outback roadtrain with a multi'box setup
I want to know what the shift pattern would be on a real vehicle.
Can you imagine being in 60th and having to stop at stop sign
CVT transmissions: *finally, a worthy opponent*
awesome gear box
Cool. 👍🏾😎
So next step is to show us how you build it into your Pick-up! 😂
shouldn’t the “front” (which is really the back gearbox) gearbox be the other way round?
Time to put this in a car to break the sound barrier
Awesome thing you made here but they were essentially doing this with spicer 6x4’s and 6x4x2’s back in the 50’s and 60’s
I like this idea a lot.
I'd like to print It my self, may I ask for the stls?
From 0 to Flash, how many speeds do we need?
Yes
So this is basically a glorified bike transmission, huh? xD
Perfect for the next 'Fast and Furious' sequel.
Try using herringbone gears to increase efficiency
This is similar to a mountain bike... You get three gears on pedals multiplied by seven(ish) on the wheel.
Hey hey hey, ADD SPRINGS TO HOLD THE ARMS FROM MOVING LEFT AND RIGHT, so the ideas is to put a spring that can hold the arm in the middle so they dont accidentally engage wile your in a different step, and then the sring can flex inwords, or be flexed outword.
Is how a bike with two sets of gears work, like a 1-7 on right hand and a 1-3 on left?
If you engage multiple gears you can have more gear ratios with fewer parts..
So, a 12 speed manual transmission with a 5 speed overdrive tacked on. _NOT_ a slam in any way! Even if I had a 3D printer to play with I doubt if I could have made the explanation as clear as you did. I will say though that my favorite PERFORMANCE manual transmission is a Lenco.
I tried making a CVT transmission with my Ken-ect set as kid.