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UNTIL 9/17/22, we are giving 10% of ALL GN STORE REVENUE to Cat Angels, a no-kill cat shelter local to us that we support and have visited. They will use the donations for taking care of shelter cats and for adoptions. Grab a 4-Pack of GN Coasters, a Modmat, or a toolkit here! store.gamersnexus.net/
I'll wait to shop until 9/18 -- fuck cats. Literally the only animal I despise.
being in your area...an order has been placed!
This is awesome! We recently lost our 10+ yo cat, she vanished. after searching for weeks and weeks, in a 50 mile plus radius, we hope she found peace or a new home. thank you!
@Black Mage 1969...a good year...man on the moon, 69 er's lol...
@Chris Fokjohn Head and shoulders does not sponsor steve's hair? *mind blown*
In Intel's XMP naming defense, I would rather not have an EMP in my computer.
@Josh L Highly Extreme Memory Profile.
This is a weird comparison since you pronounce XMP as Ex Emm Pee but EMP is simply emp.
I would rather not have intel in my computer.
Don't act like AMD is your friend because they are not, they still reselling hot garbage overpriced CPU and they will milking their consumer by releasing refresh CPU like ryzen 5500 and 4500. AMD doesn't cares about budget market anymore.
It's Electronic Magneto Power FYI... It's better than XMP
I hope this is going to be an interested price/performance battle. We really don't need AMD and Intel hitting the same price points as each other for a given performance class. Battling over features is nice, but battling over price/performance is better.
@Joe Dao Dragon that would actually make a lot of sense. The AM4 stuff as the lower end products would be a pretty interesting angle for the overall lineup.
@OneDolla Bill I'm under the assumption that AMD will hit other prices brackets and skus in the future.
@Chief Judge Your comment made me laugh man, especially the gimped baby cores part and yes even though I do think that competition is flowing again as well as believe alderlake to be quite competitive in general.Still I look at those buying a 12900k/ks and then go and disable the ecores, kick up the oc with extreme cooling then proceed to look down on me with my 5800X3D running stock with basic cooling using a third of the power and only getting a few FPS lower here and there. (trading blows depending on the game)The jokes on them I say, I can play older games with no issues and don't need to disable ecores for maximum compatibility and performance.For tinkerers and those who could care less for power consumption I'd say alderlake is okay, for the rest ZEN3 (AM4) and ZEN4 (AM5) just seems much more well rounded and balanced in general.You don't need 170 TDP cooling, use basic cooling for your TDP target and be happy since the CPU will automatically adjust according to your power and cooling config which is really cool in my opinion.
@pandemicNEETbux your opinion seems very lacking in merit or research. This is their higher end products, lower end come out after. Still more affordable than Intel and if you live in an area where electricity is expensive, like the EU and possibly the US if inflation or other factors keep going up, it is not really comparable. Video card info comes out when they plan on releasing gpus, this is focused on their cpus....
@Asmongold's Mouth stop dreaming. If these CPU’s are released, it will be 1 or 2 years down the line. AMD is done offering value parts.
I guess AMD doing the 'only ddr5' is a way to make people confused on if the board supports what kind and making it more simple. At the same time, like you mentioned, the price for ddr5 being high can hurt the lower end. Hopefully the prices would drop a bit more when Sept rolls around. It is still a nice feature that AM4 socket coolers will work. Less good working coolers in landfills
@EngineeringVision Both DDR4 and DDR5 will be affected to the same extent, so DDR5 will get as affordable as DDR4 relatively soon.
@Bound4Earth absolutely! We've got to do it sometime and honestly the springs the price down much quicker. They can justify taking less of a margin if they can verify that they will have demand to make up the r&d and tooling cost later
@Uran us I don't know, I think the fact that this CPU requires a new socket for the first time since Ryzen launched. The Ryzen 5000 or even 3000 series still exists for people at the lower end less worried more about price. Perhaps it would have been better to leave it for the higher ned models but again the confusion that would create isn't worth it. I think sticking with DDR5 over supporting both is the better solution imo.
@EngineeringVision DDR4 isn't falling in price. In fact it's stayed pretty consistent.
@Donovan But if DDR4 is falling in price then it will still be cheaper
Thank you a lot Steve for you super fast coverage of pretty much every single announcement for all these years.
The total package price is why I pulled the trigger on a 5800x3d on sale, despite AM4 going away. IMO, it's the perfect match for the 3080. My setup runs even demanding games at great frame rates, so I see no reason to worry about upgrading soon.I'm waiting for 3D cache in the 7000 series before even considering upgrading everything.I'm not loving TDP numbers of the next generation of hardware and don't think I'm willing to build a PC needing a 1200w PSU.I want to see manufacturers work on bringing TDP down.
AMD showed slides with the 7950X being much more efficient than the 5950X if they locked either TDP or clock speed to be the same. The 7000 series may well draw less power than the 5000 series in tasks that are not CPU limited.
Same but I feel like AMD is doing it to edge out the competition which is even worse with intel/nvidia. I like efficiency I don't want a space heater in my room.
@Voll Horst 5800x3d is regularly priced $399 at my local Microcenter. I got it on sale ($369) and with an additional discount ($20) for a motherboard bundle. The final price was $349.The motherboard I chose was also on sale. I turned that around on eBay for the same price I paid for it.Anyone with access to a Microcenter could do the same thing and get the CPU for $379 right now.Again, total platform upgrade price is going to be insane with these new CPUs and only makes sense if you already intended to build a PC from scratch and are building a $2-3k rig. Also, good luck getting one when they drop. You already know how this goes.
5800x3d is totally stupid at 450 bucks. Hope you got o good deal.
@Defective Degenerate Absolutely yes, a game running more than 16 even 8 threads will run much better on a 5950 than on a 58003D.
Love your independent coverage,Please keep the good job. The one outlet we can always count on.
unbiased outlet to top that
@Gamers Nexus Seriously, 'Steve & Co.'...Great video! I lapped this one up like Biscuits and Gravy. Look forward to the upcoming trials & reviews! 🇺🇸 😎👍☕
End of the day job at the job done done 😂😇😍😚😜😎
@Gamers Nexus back to you Steve!
@Gamers Nexus Thanks Steve and gn team!
I'd be excited for this if I wasn't already getting sufficient price + performance from the recently released 5700x 5700. I'll wait another 3 more years. I learned my lesson with unnecessary upgrade fever with jumping to First gen Ryzen with all the memory headaches and early adopter woes.
There's plenty enough CPU performance out there for my current needs: from the Ryzen 5 3600X all the way up to these newly released 7000 series... so yes, I don't look that much into performance when building a new PC but rather into new CPU and chipset features, like new CPU instructions, new encoding/decoding codecs, more PCIe lanes, new and more IO like USB4 etc
@Kenneth Davidson It probably does. For me, the graphics card has always been the limiting factor, I don't do any 3d or anything like that. I can play Elden Ring in 1440p and that's good enough for me lol
@Sergeant Grimm I too am trying to ride out am4 as much as I can. Hell I have the 5800x and I was looking at 5950x and 5800x3d yesterday 😂
@dilbophagginz And I was starting to think my 10850k was long in the tooth, but in reality it is just emotional. The thing runs more than fine.
I think AMD is saving all the really good binned 7700X chips for a 7800X with 3DvCache early next year at the $500 price point. It'll be their new GAMING GOD product.
Feels pretty weird to see Ryzen CPUs reach the same "number" as intel from not too far in the past, 7700X, 7700K, 7600X, 7600K etc.
@RunningInThe90s First of all, the 6000 series is their laptop processor line, so they didn't skip shit. Second of all, show me 2 other examples of this deceiving AMD marketing, if it is so "typical".
@RunningInThe90s that’s not true, they skip it because it’s their laptop cpu line.... gosh damn.
@RunningInThe90s not a marketing scheme at all, as the previous 2 said, they exist in mobile devices already. Redundant to name the desktop platform the same. Also confusing for non enthusiasts.
@RunningInThe90s 6000's are in laptops
@RunningInThe90s ryzen 4000 and 6000 cpus exist as mobile processors.
I think we all know AMD won’t change the socket unless there’s a new RAM generation that AMD can name their socket after.Let’s just hope, AMD will continue to improve on not releasing too many chipsets.
Will be very interesting to see what can be done in terms of efficiency tuning on these new chips. On my 5800X, I managed to decrease the SoC power draw to 85 W (65 W on the cores, down from 105) while only losing 5-ish % performance in R23 by using the curve optimizer to "undervolt". Massive boost in efficiency and no loss in actual gaming performance since I'm GPU-bottlenecked.Could you guys do similar testing on the new chips? Performance per watt is more interesting than raw performance IMO.
My speculation on the 2025+ AM5 support could be because of TSMC. TSMC has stated that they'll be looking to release their 2nm/N2 process node in 2025. It'll be their first node on GAAFET design. So, I take it as AMD wanting the option to release a new platform on TSMC's N2 node or wait for N2 to mature a bit.
Always the best hardware coverage anywhere. Greatly appreciate the unbiased information.
Something people tend to forget when "comparing" low end Zen4 chips with the 12900k in gaming specifically, is that Intel's own 12600K i5 is within ~10% of gaming performance to the 12900k on average. So the entire idea of thinking the i9 is a gaming intended cpu, is just bonkers. The 12700k is effectively the same performance at 40% lower cost AND lower power draw, so if performance/watt/price is what people want to discuss, then that should be the baseline comparison. The 12900k has always been a "just beat the competition regardless of price and power" and thus is stupid to hold up to next gen standards.What WILL be interesting, is comparing the 13th gen i5 and i7 chips to the new Zen4 chips - and keep the i9 exclusively for productivity with its new 24 core 32 thread layout.
Really wish people mentioned this more, because if you take into account motherboard price and DDR4 cost savings I'd probably go with alder lake, also even upgrading to the 5000 series might make sense from perf/price perspective if you already have an AM4 motherboard
Love how quick you were with the round up. Thank you for continuing your amazing testing and content coverage. You’re an inspiration!
Dude I love you mail love you so much I just want 🙃🥰😚😜😜😎
@SomeoneOnlyWeKnow if you watch Level1Techs/TechTechPotato's live stream, then after that you watch PCWorld's livestream, you'll get a continuity of what they were all doing after the presentation and Steve shows up and talk with them at the end.
@Gamers Nexus YOU ARE THE SEXIEST MAN IN TECH
@Mitchell Anderson Yeah I wonder if they got an early look so they could have the video ready?
I'm very impressed with the quality of this summary. So little time and still all the relevant topics were covered, incluind caveats of the information presented, what to look for in the near-future coverage, ...
Would be interesting to know what type of ram amd used for the 12900k in testing. Hopefully they used the same ddr5 ram in both systems to get those results. I think it was spiderman that with ddr4 ram performed the best on the 5800x3d by a decent margin, and then the 12900k took a similar lead when using ddr5 ram. It seems like it would be quite easy to make things look better than they are at the moment during the transition to ddr5. [At least on select games]
Gamers Nexus thanks for the coverage. You guys are very solid and cut out all the nonsense amd get straight to business. Much appreciated to Steve amd everyone else on the team.
Even if you only buy the cheapest processor and motherboard, you'll spend around $450. Not counting the other components, yes there are impressive features, but how far will these price increases go? Competition from Intel and Amd has increased performance, but the two companies continue to increase prices. It looks like they're taking advantage of the situation.
Wait for Intel gen 13, Intel still support DDR4 for their newer gen, AMD is f*cked. Don't act like AMD is your friend because they are not, they still reselling hot garbage overpriced CPU and they will milking their consumer by releasing refresh CPU like ryzen 5500 and 4500. AMD doesn't cares about budget market anymore.
@Elliot and from the name i bet he is from europe, he has 2 times inflation cuz EURO is worth less now than back in january 2022... welcome to 3rd world problems (your currency devaluation vs USD) say thnks to your gov
Have you heard of inflation? They barely increased prices, why is everyone so stingy
@Aces I remember when the 1700x first gen ryzen launched at a price of 400 bucks and the 1800x for 450 bucks I don't think AMD is price gouging as much as you think with the 7k series as the R7 7700 is an 8 core cpu just like those first gen offerings (which by the way was cheaper than Intel's chips at the time). Not only that but the x370 Asus Crosshair Hero I bought back then has a bios update thanks to AMD rolling back their decision to block Zen 3 on first gen boards. So that old x370 asus board has gone from a 1700x to a 3700 and now has a 5800x my brother put into it shortly after hearing AMD rolled back their decision to not support the first gen boards. Had I known they would do that I wouldn't have upgraded to my x570 crosshair hero and 5950x and saved serious cash. Then again I really did want to help my brother out he was stuck in an old FX based AM3 system for nearly a decade. I just hope they don't do the same bullshit this next generation AM5 platform.
@ZİYA ÇELİKSU OP says blah blah, amd and intel higher prices.... i will not read 18 comments... and my point is the same, higer mobo or ram prices?? R&D isnt cheap add inflation and lower margins from the companys that make ram and mobos and u will understand it... again go cry to the gov for printing money, companys dont have that power.... and if u are from europe go to the gov again. U dont only have inflation but EUR is losing value vs USD.... say thank you gov, if u are paying higher electricity bills, ask them to stop the bs bans on russia...
It will be interesting seeing what a 7800x will look like relative to the 7700x, there has been some talk that it might just be a 3d cache only sku. Would be interesting to see 3d cache products accomplishing the same clock speeds at their counterparts
I too will be waiting to see what 3d v cache skus hold...it just seems too good not to wait and see what they have before jumping on one of these
@Arrogath the 3D v-cache did more harm than good on the 5950.. due to the higher power usage and heat it dropped the clocks on the 5900 and 5950 significantly so it offset any advantage the v-cache had. i think it'll be 50/50 whether the 7800 sku is specifically held for the 7800 3D or maybe they're using dual binned dies on the 7950 and 7900 (Maybe Steve can ask them about it?) unlike the 5k series which used 1 binned and 1 5800x limiting supply for a 7800x sku. as for as the 7950 price i think that's purely a marketing move against Intel.
@Arrogath same. Plan on finally just buying my 5950 next week since a 3D never came, been using a 5700G with my 3080 in the mean time.
@Mitchell Anderson I was pretty disappointed they didn't do a 5950x3d. I had been holding out for one before finally buying a regular 5950x when prices dropped
That's true. Also the reason why the 7950 is cheaper than the 5950 msrp, allows room for an 799 7950X3D
I’m currently planning a high-end Ryzen 5000 build, so I intend to wait for the for two generations of DDR5 and AM5 to pass. I think past releases of DDR4 and AM4 respectively have shown that new technology needs a few years to stabilize.
@bob mana Linux and mac sucks for everything else, that's a facts
@bob mana AHAHAHAHAHAHAH fuck off, Linux is unstable as fuck and tends to kill itself pretty often. I tried using it for my lab and programming crashes, I spent more time fixing it than studying.It is really great for servers tho, but that's NOT the same you get in personal computers.
Yep, best bang for your buck that way
@Harsha Mohite Haha the new right click menu bugs the hell out of me. I think as time passes and more apps update to support that new menu things will improve. For example you can access WinRAR now without having to expand to more options. Same with AMD Radeon settings stuff.Considering MS really wants to move away from Control Panel, I appreciate that you can control more for the Settings UI in Win11...but I still need to rely on control panel for quite a few things so it isn't there yet. Some of the new Win11 GPOs are pretty nice though.It's funny, as a power user and developer I usually try to stay on the newest stuff so I know earlier on what is broken, what potential workarounds are and stuff like that. At the same time all of my critical functions are handled by my servers so my main rig is essentially just a dev box that I happen to play games on as well. If any issues arise that take me more than 20 minutes to troubleshoot I'll just reinstall the OS.
@temp - This is the first time I've seen someone whine that people are fanboys because they didn't like one version of Windows vs another. Take a bow for not understanding what the term means.
i think the cache size the AMD's have are going to make them good for gaming as it's shown in benchmarks on previous CPU's from intel and AMD that larger cache can give a good increase in performance in some games.
I feel like AM4 is going to be AMD's low end for a while. Between them just releasing a 3D cache upgraded Zen3, showing a possible uplift on an older technology, and their tentative statements on possible future releases for AM4 platform it seems a reasonable take. Just look at what they did with 1600AF, a great Zen1 based low end CPU. Now whether it is a good idea, as i bet it would allow for more competitive low end offerings (and allows AMD to shift their Zen3 stock, not that customers should care), or a bad idea as those who buy low end with intent to upgrade later are now left in the cold only time will tell. Or I may be completely wrong lol.
@DarkSlayer OP pretty much this. And the rejects they do have? Wouldn't meet demand at all, at a reasonable price. The r3 3100 and 3300 both went out of stock instantly, got like 20-30% price hikes then still went out of stock almost instantly. All it did was cannibalize their mobile chip supply.
@Tiki832 part of it is, unlike Intel amd doesn't fab their own chips so they have limits to how many chips they can make, that they can't change as easily as intel can.Intel basically prints out their own chips. Amd goes to a print shop and has to wait in line. No matter how much money they wanna throw at tsmc, tsmc has limits and other orders to say apple.
@Tiki832 it could also be, and it's just a guess on my part, but perhaps the manufacturing got to a point where the chaplets werent getting enough defects to warrant a (r3) low end CPU, and perhaps to fit the criteria they'd have to fuse off cores, resulting in them just not doing it as it would be seen as a waste of silicone to do that,This is just a guess based on the fact that the 7nm process advanced and was probably pretty good at having minimal defects at that point
1600af is Zen+ (It's a trash-bin 2600)
I have to wonder if they'll be putting out something into this missing 6000 series and if they will continue to make product for the older chipset. I'm VERY much looking forward to performance reviews of each 7000 processor, against the 5000, 4000, and 3000 series.
Thanks for the AM5 news wrapping! Very informative for someone who's last build was a 6700K based mITX, getting and raising kids kinda got in the way of keeping up to date 😀 Now, the first build of my son could possible be a ~R5 AM5 (if he keeps doing homework and helping out around here that is, and mb+ram prices would be reasonable).
The 7950X is 167% more cores than the 7600X for exactly 133% more money. I think AMD priced the 7600 with built in headroom -- margin -- to drop the price relatively soon after launch. Eh. I'm grabbin' a 7950X for my ITX if the AIO can cool it well enough.
Maybe they don't have enough low binned chips for the 7600X yet. I expect price to drop at least $100 in the next 6 months.
@Richard Salazar i think i paid 343 dollars for my 1700 in 2017im still using itruns every game out there butter smooth still with b-die samsung memory at cl 14and only goes about 30-60 percent usage depending on games so its goodbut im very eager to get a 5900x now
@Calisto Yeah, I caught that as soon as Clip-Share bothered to ping me and bring me back here. I must've been tired when I wrote this. Ha.
Wait for Intel gen 13. Don't act like AMD is your friend because they are not, they still reselling hot garbage overpriced CPU and they will milking their consumer by releasing refresh CPU like ryzen 5500 and 4500. AMD doesn't cares about budget market anymore.
Since AMD uses a chiplet design, it makes it less expensive to have a high core count part compared to a monolithic design. In a monolithic design, the larger the size, core count, or whatever will also mean that yields will be lower. So, going for smaller dies that you can put together will allow for high yields and reduce the cost.The RDNA 3 parts will show that very well, where NVIDIA might charge $2500 for the RTX 4090, but AMD might be able to have a card that is the same GPU "core count" and performance for $1500 due to the MCM design.
Interesting is the part that the core increase seems to have stabilized for now. I mean we have 8 core 16 threads ryzen 7 cpu´s for years now, not that it´s bad but the explosion of more cores with their appearance sort of shook up the entire industry and was a blow against intel (as they have been happy to sell annual rebadged i7 with 4 cores/8 threads for decades).I wonder when we will see the next bump in core counts.
@How dare you? We could agree on that if they start annual rebadges but require you to buy a new mainboard aswell... the crap intel did for years to maximize profit for no effort. The current situation at least has them both compete, which helps with the price. Just curious when the next core increase will become a thing.
now that they are the top dog they don't care anymore about the consumer. They care about just the increased profit by innovating the least amount
As usual, GN with the quick and comprehensive coverage, with anecdotes that us average joes can digest. Thanks Steve
It is REALLY clear that across the product stack the all-core clock speeds are a lot faster than Zen 3, and this puts Zen 4 ahead of 12th gen for almost anything and at best allows 13th gen to catch up, except maybe in a couple parts in the stack where Intel could have a decent advantage because of the addition of e cores. At the top, it will take the extra e cores Intel is adding to 13th gen just to come close to what AMD has, but for gaming 13th gen will have to rely on faster clocks to catch AMD, although if Intel is also boosting L2 cache this should help 13th gen, and I think they are.But once Zen 4 Vcache parts come out, Zen 4 is a gaming beast.
Will be interesting to see how these compare to the 5800X3D.
@Chief Judge I would not say so... Compared to 7800x3d... it will be, but we don´t have that CPU yet!
Zen 4 also has quad channel memory support
The 5800X3D is obsolete now.
@haukionkannel I havnt built a PC in 7 years where I used to do every 4. I'm ok paying a little extra this time around. Give me a 7950x3d and I'm good for $999 :)
@Saricubra And zen4 3d cache versions also are gonna be exp3ensive compared to regular. That is the point 3d cache is usefull in some situations (mostly gaming) but it is and will be expensive!
I would be particularly interested in the consumption between the individual generations in the different states, because with a Treatripper 5990 the IO chip alone has a power consumption of around 100 watts.
If you haven't already, it would be interesting to take performance improvement and comparison claims from past events like this and actually test them. If you get enough data, there's a chance you could identify a trend in how the claims hold up to reality and potentially extrapolate that data for analyzing future events/first party claims
would love to see a set like 73xx or whatever, which has a combination of performance and efficiency cores. they work amazingly for the other manufacturers and would love to see the tech made available my AMD as well, but not for all variants of the CPUs, so you can choose the one you need especially for laptops
I don't think AMD is going to see a lot of cpu sales this generation given the prices of DDR5, also the wattage increase on their 7600X will limit those doing niche builds. I'm hoping intel has good lower end 13th gen.
@Vicious circle uh no DDR4 as they stated and 7000 just released today and theres no DDR4 support, also RIP thermals
I think AMD has said to still support DDR4 didn't they? Also, niche builds I agree but those are niche after all. Not the biggest concern for them.
As a Ray user looking to get a new system this looks good to me, but I am wondering about the advancements in cache prediction. Is the v cache going to be an improvement or not? Also I have a question, will better / more vcache hit = less wear on the drives, and eaiser full system cooling? I would assume in very small amounts, but how much?
Interested to see RAM testing to get details on the exact speeds these new 7000 series CPUs prefer, as I am sure RAM speed will be important to maximizing performance. I have a PC build I am doing for a friend almost as soon as these launch, so I hope that information is available before we have to buy his ram.
Impressed with how powerful 7600x is in single threaded performance, I hope they bring something that good to the ryzen 3 as well, Its been so long since they released anything impressive in ryzen 3 like the 3300x. Hope we get a competitor for the 12100f this zen4.
My only question is: are some of these CPUs coming with its own stock cooler or not? I'm curious to find out which ones we will get as stock coolers, and how they benchmark later.
I'm more of a mobile guy myself, and I have been extremely impressed with the efficiency of Zen 3 in laptops. Especially the 5900HX in my Asus. The 6000 series mobile chips are already pretty nice, but I really can't wait to see what the next gen has in store.
Zen 4 will be insanely more efficient. 7950x vs 5950x both at the same 65W : The 7950x performs 74% better. i think mobile chips will be insane. i'm not surprised that Apple made their M1 chips so efficient considering theyre using the same TSMC 5nm
can't wait til we see the new series with the 680M GPU graphics in mini PC's or whatever the number was... but think 680M... those are impressive but I don't want a laptop
I am pretty disappointed that the 7600x TDP is higher than 65w. I hear everything you say about performance per watt but still it seem like a negative to me to have to increase the TDP to get their performance targets.
@joemrp05 Well having the TDP be higher by default will make the power consumption higher in a majority of the cases it is used, which is already a worse impression for AMD. Perhaps if they released a 7600 with a 65W TDP it could fix this, but as much as I wish this wasn't the case, not everyone will go into the BIOS or even ryzen master and limit the power consumption of their CPU. Instead, they will complain that their cooler can't sustain the 7600x and complain even more about power efficiency being terrible in modern computers, which while not entirely wrong, could also be easily fixed by limiting the higher power consumption to PBO2 or whatever else if the 65W power consumption numbers are already great
There's a huge bump in clock speed with this generation. If you ran it at the same clocks as the 5000 series, it would outperform 5000 while using less energy.
As always, you guys do great content. Absolutely the best tech channel.
What I'm most interested about is the fact - do the lower end models still have 50% of the memory throughput of the higher end SKU's?
The I/O die has the memory controller on it, and should be exactly the same between all of these Zen4 models.
With electricity costs rising sharply, power efficiency is more relevant than ever. Up 30% from last year in some places between rising oil and gas prices and drought draining hydro reservoirs, it's nuts!
I was really looking forward to the 7700x being $300. At that price, I'll pass and wait for 13th gen with similar pricing to what I am looking for.
Love the accurate and speedy delivery on this. No BS and solid information. Cant wait for the in depth though!
I'm really glad they made a big deal if power efficiency, I really don't like this direction of just increasing power to get more performance especially now with energy prices getting more and more ridiculous.
@JoshJLMG Productions right, it didn't occur to me that some places has significantly higher energy costs.
@Jose L. Louis If your computer needs 500W, you run it 6 hours a day, per year it will cost you the same as Ryzen 5800X. If you just increase the power consumption by 100W it's still some money, like 50USD or what. And all the other small devices in your home combine into a lot of money if you don't care at all.
@Jose L. Louis Energy prices are so high in Europe (especially Germany) that some people actually can't afford high-end hardware in the long run.
You're concerned about energy costs? Do you run a data center?
One of the best thing about dude is that he never take credit for himself when he achieves something.he always respect us the audience and his team,and is polite in all his video, We congratulate Overselves on this achievement more to come..🔥..
Can’t wait to see reviews. Many legit reviewers like Angstronomics and Locuza have pointed out that the Core +L2 comparison is particularly shady as a die complex can’t operate in that form. I.e the shrink is much less if you compare all the caches and the rings needed to actually get data to the processor
Im hoping to get my hands on a x670 w 7600x, could wait for a b650 but if this socket could last for at least the next 2-3 gens i dont see anything wrong choosing a good motherboard. gonna wait for rtx4000 and rdna3 and see wich is better.
The second hand market is going to be awesome for us AM4 and ddr4 scavengers, I still use a Ryzen 3 1200 so I desperately need an upgrade
Right now GPU is more the bottleneck in the majority of gaming.
The second hand market is always good for old, outdated stuff.
I upgraded my brother's 1200 to a 3600 and he couldn't be happier, it's a super cheap upgrade these days.
running 2600 non x, hoping the 5600 will be available for lower price
@wnxdafriz good time to upgrade will be during the black friday sales. or buy used
Hmm well looking back at AMDs last launches, they do put a good show on. I don't know if their slides has been that out of line. Overall, I think I will take their slides at face value as probably in the ballpark at least. Good enough to speculate if you want to upgrade at least.Mind you, there is no need to jump headless into a new platform. I do remember the last launch and the bios update needs.
17:00 I do agree with you on the expensive DDR5 prices. I wish AMD will pair 6 and 8 core Zen 4 with the existing I/O die of Ryzen 3000/5000 series for AM4, that will address the lower end segment.
I can't wait to see your research on the IHS pressure tests for cooling on some AM4 coolers if you decided to do some that is.If you still have a rig that can get a CPU upgrade say 3000 to 5000 that would be the best option right now. End of next year is when pricing will be a lot better probably for DDR5
looking forward to the reviews just wished they had the 7950x3d out now too LOL but by then the DDR5 may have come down in price ( not ) and all the Bios problems / issues will be sorted :)
I'm really more interested in hearing from AMD that they're going to not be such a disaster on the software side than I am in hearing they're a bit faster. I've been happy with my 5900X apart from persistent USB reliability issues, that stuttering bug they supposedly fixed with a BIOS update earlier this year (they didn't), and their RAID software being so buggy it was directly responsible for catastrophic data loss.
@Vernon Yeah, putting aside the issues it's been a great CPU for me as well. A huge increase in performance and productivity over my old 4790K, needless to say.
that sad to hear. I currently own 3 sperate 5900x PCs all with MSI motherboards and lucky never had any USB issues. However I don't use raid at all. Sad to hear there still some people with issue because I love the 5900x
It looks pretty probable that higher TDP numbers are perfectly explained by smaller chiplets inside CPU (remember that Theta as divisor). Smaller chiplet = smaller heat transfer surface = higher thermal resistance for a package. Therefore, temperature gradient should be higher to achieve same heat transfer compared to bigger chiplets, which means cooler has to cool IHS to lower temperature (probably -1-3 degrees Celsius).
Did not expect high price from AMD, they suffered for price when 12 gen came out they will again suffer against 13th gen for price, 13400 will rule the budget market.
First time AMD user with the 5900x. I love the performance but I absolutely hate the way they handle the USB issues. Now seems to be mostly fixed but i still have random USB DC from time to time. I still got a few years left for my 5900x but i would NEVER AGAIN buy a new processor at launch.
had a MSI B350 PC Mate and a X470 Hero and never had those usb issues either
I never got that problem, I had a few different motherboards too. Asus X370 crosshair hero extreme. -1700xAsus Dark Hero X570 3900x - 5950xMSI Meg Unify X570 ..I like this one due to no RGB. 3900x-5950x-3950xAsus Strix F X570 - 5800xAsus Strix B550 -5800xI have a problem I am aware of this...I would be curious to find out what cpu/mobo combinations were in play for that problem as it wasn't all of them.
I had that too, but surprisingly only with corsair K70 keyboard. I have corsair mouse and logitech headphones and never had issue with them.
Still haven't gotten over the price bump from the last generation. I'm looking forward to seeing the price/performance comparisons for these chips compared to previous generations.
Prices creep, that's normal, but the bottom end used to be $100 or even less for something like like a 3100 or 3300x processor, while the 3600 to 3700 were in the $150 to $250 range. Now prices are leaping more than creeping and suddenly the 'bottom end' of the market starts at $300 and jumps right to $450 for the next better part.
I think its bad because its $300 for 6 cores, and its their cheapest processor again so the 12400f and 12100f are uncontested.
@Outmind01 because not many want a 6 core *600X chip at $300. instead AMD's core mainstream users are looking for a 6 core *600 (non-X) chip at $200, which is $100 cheaper but retains like 98% of the performance. Essentially the *600X is AMD trying to raise the average selling price and trying to get more money (which to be fair is what a company is supposed to do) while the cheaper *600 chip is what consumers really want rather than paying that extra $100 for like 2% extra performance(which can be gained back by a simple overclock anyways sicne th X models are only clocked slightly higher anyways and retain the same core and cache configuration)
I watched the hardware unboxed summary, and they said that the 7600X will be the same $300 the 5600X was at launch time, but that this is somehow bad. Someone mind explaining why? Is it due to the 5800X / 5800X3D being comparatively priced?
My biggest worry about the AM5 is the steady reduction in die size.I really think cooling these chips will be a much bigger problem, given the higher TDP envelope (whatever those numbers mean) and the smaller die size.
One thing that wasn't really talked about is that the TDP for the lower tier chips is lower than the higher end chips. If you think about it, on Socket AM4, AMD was limited by the 105W TDP. 16 core chip, 105W TDP, 8 core chip with a 105W TDP...yea, power draw for the 8 core chip should be lower, meaning the TDP should be lower than a 12 or 16 core. With Zen4, AMD seems to be allowing the 12 and 16 core chips to draw more power than the 6 and 8 core chips. AMD has the information on its site:Ryzen 5 7600X and Ryzen 7 7700X has a 105W TDP, Ryzen 9 7900X and 7950X have a 170W TDP. So, there's more room to feed power with the new socket, and this allows for higher clock speeds. The move to 5nm reduces the power required for a given design which also helps keep that power/heat level down.
@bacon byteThe issue is not cooling the IHS, but rather getting heat spread to the IHS itself can become the bottleneck. It will manifest in that you don't see much of a temperature improvement when going to a supposedly much more beefy cooler. I've heard that Ryzen 5000 has had a bit of this issue, so the even smaller die of the 7000s naturally raise concerns. Curious to know if it actually will be this way tho, certainly hope it would not.
@bacon byte packing everything closer together in the die and turning up the power will make the heat density higher and affect performance, no matter your cooler since it has to travel to the IHS first
this is what the IHS does........ having less of a surface area actually producing heat to a larger place to dissipate it before it even gets to the cooler makes up for it. So it's easier to cool the IHS which in turn cools the chip
Obviously we've gotta wait for the data but if I understand any of this even a little bit you have nothing to worry about cooling-wise.
Wow, I was looking forward to this new architecture, but honestly, AMD bumbed me out. This just seems to be another decent generation with crummy prices and crummy ecosystem costs. Better to just wait for the next release and buy these when they go on sale or just get 5000 series.
I am extremely skeptical that CPU cooler manufacturers are going to sell new brackets for the new socket so we can fit our old coolers on the new motherboards.
It sounds like AMD’s Ryzen series might be starting to stretch their architecture thin for CPUs, but time will tell. The 5000 series is starting to sound like the peak.
I wonder how messed up the IOMMU groupings will be. I’ve got 5 VMs running at the same time sometimes. One has GPU passthrough and USB passthrough for low latency USB applications (Steam VR) to Windows 10 for gaming. X570 Asus Creator is one of the best for that. Asmedia chipsets (anything other than X570) are known to be horrendous for the job. Only X570 is made by AMD.
I feel like pulling the Trigger on a X3D a while back was, in hindsight, a great decision.Despite only upgrading from a 3700X the performance gains in the games I play are HUGE.The best part about it was that it just took a mobo BIOS flash and a glob of thermal paste to do it. It runs like a dream on the fairly budget MOBO bought a few years ago.Disappointing that there isn't the same level of VCache available with even the high end 7000 chips. In some great fun, but poorly optimised games, it makes a huge difference. I'd wager the X3D would still remain the king in certain titles.
@Chief Judge and buy a whole new motherboard ram and cooler but have less cache? I'm good thanks
Ouch. You should've waited until Zen 4.
I typically upgrade every generation then rebuild my old parts into a system I give away. This time around, I think I’ll be waiting until all the new platform kinks are worked out.
@pandemicNEETbux “Gee doom, that is super kind of you to take care of people like that” nah, I’ll resort to a personal dig at him being successful to make myself feel better.Ok. That out of the way, I won’t have an answer to that question until I see some real world numbers. Intel’s newer offerings have been very interesting. The 7000 series also looks interesting.Once I see GN, Der Bauer and ActuallyHCO break down the performance, boards, stability, OCability and so on, I’ll decide where to spend my excess income 🖕
...why>I give awayOh. You've got plenty of excess cash. So if youre one of those rare people who actually does build every year, thoughts on how Gen 13 vs Zen4 is looking?...I gotta be honest, I just like the numbers themselves at this point. Generation 13 for that whole Illuminati Vampire the Masquerade thing, 7000 series because as we all know, anything that has the letters and numbers "7" "x" and "k" is like painting it red, it makes it go fastah
And DDR5 prices come down.
@Drew Hinners NGL, I’ve been considering going back to team Blue. Haven’t used them in a desktop since the 6700k
@The Beard of DOOM nah, did it like crazy on my Gigabyte X570 Master + 3900x combo. Flashed 3 BIOS, each claiming to fix it *specifically* in patch notes and it never got any better. Always having to unplug/replug my audio interface because my friends couldn't hear me in game, got fed up and exercised my microcenter replacement plans to swap for a 10900K/Z490 Master, it hasn't happened a single time since.
Lowest end for initial release being 105"w" is a bit disappointing. Between this and NVIDIA, it looks like we've come back full circle on the performance cycle to increasing power as much as is somewhat tolerable for the user.
New technology improvements are always exciting
Wonder what the die layout will look like if same offset kits will work since these seem like pretty spicy chips
So Steve, what your basically saying is the cost / benefit analysis of moving to the 7000 series may not be worth leaving the 5000 series, depending on the use case - at least, that’s what I’m hearing. If building a 7000 based system costs 35 percent more but you only get a 15 percent improvement, it may not be worth it.
Just about ready to bite the bullet and build a new system. Waaaay overdue. Can't wait to see the reviews. Though, I could go Zen3 for the savings and still have a system lightyears ahead of my current rig. Now I just have to hold off another month or so.
@Digital Man he'll be happy either way since he's getting a huge upgrade either way. Then two or three years from now all the current hardware will be much cheaper.Unless you're doing cutting-edge work, you really don't need to have cutting edge hardware.
@Digital Man be one with intel and march to their 2 year cadence.
Buy the best and be happy af for 2 years.
Well if you have the money, buy the new stuff so I can get it later at a price reduction!
Reviews come out on the 22nd, on sale on the 27th.
Non expert here: I've heard the infinity fabric clock would be halved if the ram was not 4800MHz or something like that. If true, could EXPO be potentially detrimental to the overall performance?
I think I'm just going to chill on my 9900k until the Zen4 X3D comes out, although I imagine those are going to sell out fast and be hard to get. I'm not exactly struggling with a 9900k and RTX 2080 though, which I bought before all the economic lockdowns at below MSRP /humblebrag
There is no reason to change a higher end cpu, if used for gaming, for at least 5-6 years.
@Nasanieru Lastname i sold a 6700K a few weeks ago
And I’m the guy who cobbled together a 6700K machine because a dude on Facebook was selling one for cheap
I went from a QX9770 to a 5800X, I'm about ready to go back to the QX9770.Thought about all the new games I could play, found that I wasn't missing out on anything because there's been nothing of note released in the recent past.
@Chief Judge there is nothing news breaking about it. It's been close to 5 years since I changed to this and I do feel it's time for an upgrade
Damn, Zen 4 looks great! Can't wait to see your in depth reviews!
I don't see a world where $299 and $399 price points stick around too much longer when Raptor Lake is going to absolutely chokeslam the low-end Zen4 lineup with raw core count. If the 13600k is 10% faster single-core (vs ADL) and has 6P/8E cores, the 7600X has absolutely no ground to stand on at the $300 price point. It's dead in the water.
I was hoping for better pricing at the low end, but I suppose it all depends on the performance relative to Raptor Lake. I was planning to skip this generation anyway, but Intel is starting to look like the better value for CPUs.
Re Intel, this is especially true for its older CPUs which are still widely available, such as the 10105, 10400, etc. and F variants, which perform well (and they aren't arch gimped like the Ryzen 5500 or the awful desktop 4000s). I had to put together an emergency build recently after an X99 system failure while being somewhere that had no brick & mortar stores within reach at all (an island), so it was all Amazon. Final spec was a 10400 and Z490, was very impressed with its performance, fast boot, silent running, etc. More than enough for the vast majority of tasks. Now back home, where my 'office' machine is a 2700X and gaming PC is a 5600X, the 10400 will become a benching setup, so am looking forward to some interesting comparisons.Most talk is naturally about Alder Lake, but the option for many of buying Comet Lake instead, using the saved cash on a better GPU or something else, is very useful.Also, many have commented that AM4 still exists and is thus AMD's pseudo low-end while AM5 emerges, but the reality is that many entry and better value AM4 boards (especially the 400 series) have already disappeared, such as the B450 Tomahawks. One can get the B550 Tomahawk instead of course, but it costs *three times* the price of the B450 Tomahawk Max II I bought for my 5600X, which is nuts (and at the time of purchase, my Z490 was about a 3rd cheaper than the current B550 Tomahawk). The value appeal of AM4 was the continued availability of B450 and X470, especially the former (one does not need B550 or X570 for excellent gaming performance, a 400 board is plenty), but that's gone and in the meantime 500 series boards have become kinda pricey. Thankfully, the used market for B450 is excellent.Good idea to skip this gen. Can't help thinking AMD's 7000 low-end pricing may be a mistake, much like waiting so long to release the 5600 was dumb. And I was surprised Steve didn't point out that the more relevant comparison to the 7600X is the 12600/K. It all provides Intel with plenty of room to counter, eg. with a 13600K that's a bit cheaper than the 7600X (and faster) alongside continued availability of the 12600K that's a lot cheaper. Atm the 12600K is kinda expensive, but if Intel dropped it by 30% then they'd have that semi enthusiast low end covered, especially if they also had, say, the option for a $150 to $200 12600 aswell.
I hope that they deliver, and that Intel's response is also as good as this seems to be. Either way, when I finally upgrade from my 8th gen, I'll be living the life! Hopefully a cooler life, but still a great life nonetheless.
Intel will make lots of promises, run into delays, and release toward the end of Q1 2023 because Raptor Lake won't beat AMD without using 100-150W more power.
@Michael Bender yup. It certainly was for me. I was on old ass Intel and AMD that became nVidia eventually then after filling out the system fully ending with RDNA and Zen2. Even 6 year waits can still be amazing.
Fr bro 😅 I got a 9700KF and 1060 6gb and feeling like the next upgrade will be insane lol
I kind of think by the time you need to jump to AM5 ddr5 will be cheap enough. There's still gonna be a lot of am4 chips out there that are perfectly fast enough
another quality video telling me what i want to know. Thanks GN team!
7600X is looking like it will be a good gaming chip with hopefully cheaper B650 boards.Will be interesting with the 13600K + Z790 pricing and performance. For productivity I think the 13600K would be the easy winner. For gaming maybe 7600X is offering better value and performance.
Man, AMD is so far behind. I have been running a 7600 CPU in my rig for five years.
How is AMD behind?Edit: Ohh, I get it.
For me all AMD really has to do is be competitive with intel. i dont even care if they beat them in performance just be close. I'll still buy a AMD because they support the socket for a few generation. Ive upgraded 3 times with the same mother board. 1600 3800x and 5800x. keep doing that and ill keep choosing AMD when i upgrade.
When I upgraded to Alder Lake earlier this year I went with the DDR4 version so I could same RAM. I have 64GB of perfectly good 3600 18CL RAM by G-Skill, and didn't make much sense to me to buy a board that would have required me getting a whole new RAM kit. Zen 4 being DDR5 only, I think will hurt them, because upgrading to DDR5 now is kind of a big ask.
Cant agree, why would you release an all new platform that doesnt take advantage of the newest tech. DDR5 will be the norm for all new builds in 2023 and your DDR4 will start to feel slow by comparison
Yikes, Alder Lake has already aged terribly. It has gimped cores that in many places lower performance. Also, DDR4 is an outdated inferior technology so there is no reason for a modern platform to support it. It would be like asking why AM4 didn't support DDR3.
Obviously waiting for it all to be released but it really looks and sounds like it may be time to go for discounted high end gen 5 stuff. DDR 5 is optional on a couple boards there if you really want to go that route but probably sticking with DDR 4 if you're going for a 5000 series anyway.
I will most likely get myself a Ryzen7000. But with all the improvements/changes in the Branch Prediction i really hope they have not implemented a vulnerability. Spectre vulnerabilities are still active today.
I believe AMD will have to do for the 5000 series something similar to what they did for the 1000 series with the 1600AF: take some Zen 4 chiplets, couple them with an I/O die that is compatible with the old DDR4 platform, and ship them as a "last ditch" upgrade option for AM4.Even if they have to make compromises and they come out a bit slower than a true Zen4/AM5 setup, they would most likely still be fast enough to command an upgrade from people who don't want to throw out their ram (especially people who have 64GB), and I'm sure they'd sell more CPUs overall.If I were AMD I would announce this 2-3 months after the launch of the 7000 series, so that people who _were_ willing to upgrade the entire system would have already done so.
Interesting, but given the prices of DDR5 right now...I think I'm good for a while. A whole platform upgrade isn't really something I'm looking at just yet.sitting on the 5950x (I got that for free :) ) is sufficient for my current and likely near future requirements.
Good point on thinking about the total package pricing. I had been pretty hype for 7600x at near 45% less cost than an 12900k currently when they announced yesterday, but factoring in DDR5 and leaks of am5 motherboards steep pricing the real cost difference will probably be closer to 10% looking at current pricing in my country. Still good, but not as wow deal. Eagerly await the GN testing of these new cpus :)
I wonder how long it will be after launch until someone comes out with a CPU frame like with 12th gen Intel. Looks like it will be much harder to make with the IHS design. Hopefully the stock locking mechanism is good.
I think it's totally fine for you to accept flights and lodging and stuff for these press events paid for by the company doing the announcement. It's more money you can spend on equipment and reviews. You can always just send them a check to reimburse them if they try any quid pro quo funny business
Total package pricing for 7600X is gonna be fine, especially with performances near 12900K in gaming.
7900x sounds like the sweet spot. Gets 2 chiplets, still full L3 cache. Less cores per chiplet allows higher clocks.
With AMD having an LGA socket now, will we potentially see the same benefits from a custom CPU frame as with current Intel chips/boards?
Most of the %13 ipc increase may come from ddr5. Because on intel we saw similar performance gains from ddr4 to ddr5 setup.
I HAVE TO SAY RYZEN 9 7950X LOOKS AMAZING ,I HOPE TO SEE SIMILAR PROCESSOR IN THE LAPTOP MARKET.
Just take note that AM4 is still available, if you cant afford the latest and greatest entry level 7600X then you should be looking at previous gen which is going to be much cheaper once these CPU's are launched. Case in point, I scored a 5900X for $290 used.
@Jack Bui Yeah but again counterpoint I don't even need half that stuff. I play games, I don't need USB 4, ans I have PCIe gen 4, I have an X570 motherboard. Actually I have the only half decent MATX X570 motherboard on the market. It'd be easier for me to just upgrade to a higher tier of what I have than to full on swap a motherboard.Don't even really know why I'm talking about it though because by the time I upgrade much better stuff will be out. I don't plan to ditch what I have so soon.
@m8x425 sure, it's a very rare score for a 5900X at $290 but it will be more possible once the 2nd hand market is flooded with Zen 3 chips once Zen 4 is released so not impossible
@Ivana Sukjadic whatever flots your boat
@Lelouch Abril Velda17 It really depends on what you're doing. If you're gaming, they pull the same amount of power. If you're doing actual workflow things, intel will pull more power, at a less efficient rate.
@Nesy boi I've got the same regret. I went am4 a few months before 12th gen. If you've got an am4 motherboard, the obvious answer is to just upgrade, but depending on what motherboard you have, you lose out of a few things, like pcie gen 4, high speed usb, etc, to the point where it might actually be reasonable to upgrade the motherboard too. You might be able to slap that new 5000 into the motherboard, but won't be using everything it has.
I'm looking into purchasing an AM5 board this forthcoming September, purely as an investment. If the AM5 socket lasts as long as AM4 did, I'll be able to use the same board for years and years while still upgrading. Quite exciting.
I'm hoping to build a 7600x pc next year when starfield comes out. I'm hoping the prices for motherboards and memory will have settled down by then.Will wait and see which gpu I'll go with.
I clapped in silence. Great coverage as always. Hats off to GN!