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From NOW until 9/17/22, we will be donating 10% of ALL GN store revenue to Cat Angels NC, a charity we've supported many times over the years and that we've personally visited. We can attest to the care they provide cats as a no-kill shelter that helps to find new homes or permanently house cats; in fact, one of GN's staff even got his cat at Cat Angels. Now is a great time to buy one of our 3D PC-themed Coaster Packs! We are running low on these and don't plan to re-order this specific pack anytime soon. We are planning to make this a collectible series of coaster designs, so get this pack before it runs out over here: store.gamersnexus.net/products/3d-coaster-pack-4-component-coasters
I’m surprised you guys haven’t talked about the big thing that popped up in the itx community. Ncase has finally released renders of their new case and it’s got everyone excited
I have been playing with mini ITX since my first buils, but it now gets to the point where it isn't worthit anymore for me.
I'll donate to anything that turns cats into "angels", we have to get rid of as many cats as possi- what? Shelter? NO-KILL?! [/s]But in all seriousness, this is a great cause, and I need some coasters anyway.
I don't know if on-board audio is as big a deal as when it was first introduced. I DO think it's something more-or-less taken for granted now, but a lot of folks use the GPU's audio drivers to pass sound to the monitor and plug in headphones (or use the monitor's speakers, if it has them). The ASUS Hive, however, is a contrivance (not a contrivancy, which would be group of people or committee responsible for creating a contrivance). Also, I would think that "ASUS removing on-board audio" would be "much to the irritation of users everywhere" (not "to the chagrin" of them, as chagrin is embarrassment or shame). I absolutely LOVE your content, though; you just need to be a little more careful with language.
Tell me your thoughts and feelings in regards to plasma TVs. Leave nothing out. I want to feel what you feel.
I'm so glad the space I saved from having a mini ITX build can be used for a new cable hell hub on my desk.
@Meta Cube Nothing, move along..
@Sylfest Strutle wat
A pc needs 2 cables, power, and screen. Everything is wireless nowadays.Buying small is for low power pc, I guess you want it near your tv?Cables looks great behind some furniture, cram it all down there and you'll be cooking on gas in no time(see what I did there?)
3:14 Yes because when I build a portable Small Form Factor PC, I want to lug around a big extra-terrestrial UFO shaped piece of plastic so that I can do the outlandish thing of plugging in my earphones. That makes perfect sense and is so much more convenient than all the other Mini-ITX boards that have onboard audio.It will be great for LAN environments, where there's no additional desk space, maybe I can put it on my lap, or even better... on my head. Way to go, Asus! If they could just make it a little bigger, I wouldn't need to bring a cap to shield overhead glare.
Ignoring this generation....going lap top next gen GANG GANG
Apple dongle works wonders
you know you're not married to that UFO-shaped DAC, right? Theres smaller ones that you can leave on top of your case, or closer to where your headphones are. I personally use an AudioEngine D1 for such purposes.
External DACs can be nice to fix problems with interference and since they generally have more power budget and space can just sound a tad nicer. But when I'm building ITX I don't want to carry around another brick, I'd be more happy with an external DAC on a full size board, at which point if excluding the integrated audio makes the board cheaper or otherwise better I'm more than fine with it.That said, I would absolutely never buy this particular model, I do not want an LED control that doubles as a DAC with gamer branding, thank you very much.
I could see the appeal for some home theater-like setups: one'd have a beefy proper DAC there anyway and this board would serve as a base for something like NUC but in DIY space. So removing this functionality looks at least somewhat acceptable. Their DAC, however... Oof.
I'd give up onboard audio for onboard 10GbE.
once you go DAC, you'll never go back
Exactly! I couldn't care less if my full sized ATX has no on-board sound because an additional internal card or external DAC isn't adding much, but for small formfactor builds this often isn't a good idea.And before anybody's saying it: Making a dumb TV smart or a smart TV not having a shitty OS, is not a good usecase for a micro-ATX. Get a RPi4 (supports HVEC now) and a good sound system (you'd need it anyway with a board that has no on-board audio).
I been running an external audio interface for years now so yeah I don't mind loosing the audio. That said with a small board like that the whole idea would be to keep things small and minimal right and it feels like counter productive to then just remove things from the box and adding more clutter on your desk.
@Muhammad Khairul Afiq the cases are in a range of prices. I've found many that weren't all that expensive and were actually pretty close to the bigger sizes. The mini itx form factor is more expensive overall though, but the cases? Yeah that heavily depends.
@Gabriel87100 If it becomes a trend and affects all boards then yeah. But if you can afford a high end ITX motherboard but cant afford to buy better audio, then you shouldnt be building high end nor ITX. People dont know but ITX is hella expensive for the size. The cases are expensive, you need M.2 preferably an NVMe which is expensive (at least where I live - same can be said to SFX PSU and quite other parts). At least Asus still gave something as a replacement, just not ideal. I'd say I'd be find if it was me though.
I also run an external audio interface, but still use the on-board audio!! I agree with @tlater that this makes way more sense on a board that would go in a less portable build.
@Raptor2099 they could also reduce the number or ports to one audio jack instead of 3 or even 6
I'm all for removing on board audio, it usually sucks in comparison to an actual sound card or a good DAC anyways. It would be nice if they lowered the price of the mobo by not including a DAC either.
Ive been using external DACs for years. I am probably the outlier when it comes to this though. It does make sense for a small form factor to have the most universal IO they can get though. IMO
I've been on the external DAC wagon for years too. So much more quality, it's comparing water to wine.
Given I still only by phones with headphone jacks, you can imagine how I feel about motherboards removing audio. Personally it would be a deal breaker, unless it saved me so much money buying an external DAC set up was literally orders of magnitude easier. But somehow I doubt that
@Robbie you're an idiot if you think i don't have a wireless mouse and a modern gpu. every single bluetooth audio device i have used has had at least half a second of delay if not more. i never said bluetooth isn't fast enough, but the issue is that most bluetooth audio devices require the audio to be encoded before it is sent to the device which simply adds another process in the chain increasing latency as a result. i don't know of any myself but there is probably a gaming headset somewhere that has fixed this issue but you can't buy a pair of wireless earbuds from the local electronics and expect it to just work, it's essentially a coin flip. I don't know if you noticed but the vast majority of wireless headphones use effectively WiFi to transmit the signal because it just works better.
@saintnoodle It is no longer 2012. Bluetooth is more than fast enough to be used for video games. Many gaming mice these days are bluetooth. It's also probably time for you to move on from that Nvidia 660 Ti you apparently must be using if you still think Bluetooth is not fast enough.
@Durty_Digitz Case audio plugs need the onboard (or a dedicated) audio, so using one of these MB would actually remove a part of the value of literally any case in the market you put it in, not worth it in the least.
@Sherwin Yu Nah they needed that space for a fan because they can't get their shit together on the VRM stuff.
Yeah, Asus managed to cram in a good headphone jack in the tiny(by today's standards) Zenfone 8 and 9, I don't see why they couldn't make room for that in the rear IO of the upcoming motherboard. Very weird decision, the hub thing just seems like another thing to break. The only justification that I could see is if they managed to cram in more USB slots by omitting the audio out.
Honestly, there is so much problems with audio hardware in general and especially with on-bord audio in the past year. My employer opted out of using any on board audio. So I think having none is better than having something bad and therefore unused, that can cause issues and needs to be patched frequently
Yeah I think separate audio is a good move. For us ITX users, motherboard real estate is very precious when it comes to clearance for cooler, RAM and stuff. It also eases the burden of cable management which can be troublesome in tiny ITX cases.
LED's that spin😂 Yeah now I'm interested in a review. As long as you do the glass front panel variant as well. I like to see what manufacturers were thinking deliberately obstructing the airflow in their products.
I'd really like to see more full sized tower case reviews rather than the usual mid-sized tower and mini cases that most reviewers tend to do recently.
I am an mITX enthusiast, if they kill onboard audio I will move on to ATX. My USB ports are already crowded as it is right now there is no room for an external DAC. I hope other companies won't follow this trend.
I would like to see a review of that Thermaltake case. Always very interested in seeing performance on noise-normalized tests, especially on cases that have 200mm front fans. Given that Thermaltake actually supplies my region as opposed to Fractal and is thus by default always cheaper, the review on TT's case only becomes more relevant to me.
I'm pretty sure Asus could have fit in the audio ports but needed a spot for a mini fan instead, because it looks like their heatsinks are just blocks of metal with NO fins....So cooling must be a serious issue.
@Gamers Nexus 4:31 indicates there are two fans (venting out of the grilles in the backplate), a design very similar to the ASUS X570-I
@Julian Pearce you’re right, but take a look at 4:31, there’s actually TWO fans, one for the VRMs and one for the M.2 and chipset (chipset is likely below the M.2 slots). The X570-I from ASUS utilizes a similar design, though that does have on-board audio, situated just behind the M.2s.
@Sebastian Amadeus van Brahms its just ridiculous to keep audio i/o in the back better make a studio standard soundcard included with XLR / TRS for its proart motherboard
@Julian Pearce Time to just go to edsff.
@Michaels Carport one thing i will note is the bus used for onboard audio is it's own thing, it is not based on pci-e or any other connections.. idea i had was to externally wire/connect that bus and set the mobo up to recognize the various different options out there for the hdaudio bus.. i remember one mobo maker doing mostly that, but using a remapped pci-e connector.. hdaudio controller is typically in the intel or amd io-bridge [ie amd x670 chip] while the external chip that creates the actual audio output is merely an dac/adc combo linked to the output of the hdaudio controller.. amd may even have it built in on the processor, owing to the ability of some ryzen3k and up to run as a SoC, like qualcomm snapdragon and other mobile device processors
I have been using only external solutions for audio for many years at this point. If removing the onboard audio can lead to reduced price or more features at the same price then I don't mind. What Asus is doing here by building this external device into the price of the board is not a great direction though. ITX motherboards are already getting too expensive and this isn't helping to improve the situation.
It would be a hassle but I'd love love love to see GN test SFF cases, both mATX and mITX / mDTX sizes. The SFF scene seems to be growing. There are exciting new cases and exciting innovations to combat space constraints. Since you guys have reviewed non-standard enclosures before (like Cooler Master's test bench thingy) I hope you explore SFF stuff in the future.
On the on-board audio, this will really depend on the needs. I personally use an ITX system but use an external DAC, but having an on-board option will still be great on situations where you're using the PC as a media PC in the living room, or even donating your PC to someone after you upgrade or the DAC gets damage. But on a personal note, I'm fine with it as long there are feasible options.Still, it is a good thing that they added the DAC after removing on-board audio. It's better than it being removed, but having no alternative replacement packaged together.
The Hive looks like it's well spec'ed with a modern codec and ESS DAC, but I would prefer another DTX Impact board with both built in. Way too many daughterboards makes the board messy, too.
Since most GN merch is already in my house, I donated directly to Cat Angels. Thank you for bringing them to the forefront again. They are a very worthy cause. If someone REALLY wants to help, they have an Amazon wish list with a lot of things that they need as well.
@helenHTID Eden Reforestation is completely run by volunteers. None of the money goes to volunteers.
this is great!
@helenHTID Parrot rescues in particular run on fumes. Any help they can is always helpful. There just isn't the same size of pet community to help them out. Sadly, many have to hide their locations due to the threat of parrotnapping ('theft') due to the birds' high value. Many aren't suitable rehoming due to existing trauma, disablement, neurosis, and even PTSD for a few from abuse. Only people they can really trust can volunteer in the first place.
@Robbie It's hard to call a charity organization "nonprofit" when it's owned by people making fortunes and run by highly paid CEOs and managers.. Who get bonuses too like any CEO or manager. The term "Every penny goes to" is commonly not true because a huge cut of the overall income is going to these people. And then you have corruption happening on the receiving end, I'm not saying every charity out there is on this level but it's all too common and you have to be well informed before giving money in my opinion. Where's there's people in need, Comes people with greed.
@helenHTID Gamers Nexus has had a charity drive with a humanitarian nonprofit and it went directly to the people.
There are so many great cases under $80 that I never look for a more expensive one, usually targeting 60-70
I never thought ASUS would beat Apple to removing the headphone jack from their computers.
For a cheaper case review, I’d suggest the cougar mx330. It’s about $60, and feels pretty sturdy/well-built/designed.
I'm skeptically excited for the on-board audio change. On board audio might be a "must have" for some who need to minimize cables or new to the PC building space, but for more quality audio external amps are a must-have. Although ASUS doesn't brand the external DAC as an amp, I am wondering what audio quality improvements it can provide (if any).
I typically use several audio devices in tandem so I can run them all into an analog mixer and adjust the levels with a nice analog dial. Also allows me to run other devices into the same pair of speakers at the same time
If the external DAC represents a large upgrade over most onboards, Iam fine with it. If it is a dual, can support 600 ohm headphones, and has at least a somewhat decent amp in there after the dac its fine.
Depending on the lumen cost and if it has touch I might be really interested. Mostly for raspberry pi type things
Even with the number of audio interfaces I use I'd still avoid any mobo that doesn't include it. That backup audio option is too good to give up.
it's definitely nice to have especially as a backup audio option if you have issues with your interface, or what not. Also not everyone wants to deal with a separate audio device and would be just find with onboard audio. It's a silly cost-cutting measure.
usually to the manufacturers, when you give an inch they take a mile. I dont think we should be happy with onboard audio going away especially in a "extreme" product label.
@Setti Spaghetti pci-e options already exist. Why bother case manufacturers with this? You're crazy for wanting to shift thenburden from one set of companies to another set.
@fleur'de' win you'd think the price will shift downward, but be prepared for it to do the opposite.
@HashTag I actually agree, I don't want extra crap just to run headphones or basic speakers. This is just a shit move.
I don't mind. I don't want bloat in any product i own. Paying for built-in audio when it's the worst place to handle audio on a computer seems nuts. Smart case makers would do well to include a small usb DAC and headphone jacks on both the front and the back of the case from now on, letting people move on without feeling ripped off. Bonus points for case manufacturers, since they can now claim to support all the 3d surround sounds bs in their marketing blurbs, or "BUILT IN BLUETOOTH". You want all of that guff on the outside and the front of the case anyway, why burden the motherboard makers with all the connectivity and io?
@ZackSNetwork they are both usable and both suck, apple dongle is better.
Since i know how onboard works usually ditching that in favor of external DAC provided with the MB is quite a good thing in my opinion. streamers already use external ones for microphone audio inpun unless they are using a usb mic. and the noise motherboard introduces to the audio is quite decent when checked with software. so i am in favor of that
Kudos to GN for supporting the the cat shelter! I'd love to see you guys suffer building in cheapo cases. Some of these cases are still used in VERY budget oriented builds, or first time builders who do not understand why people buy 150-200$ boxes of metal and glass. Just like many of the things GN does, it would be nice if you could do a video series of reviewing how annoying it is to work in these cases. (or re-using legacy HP, Dell, Packerbell, Acer cases from the 2000's, that their dads had laying around and now you have to repurpose for a modern system; ps, this is hell.) For Asus omitting onboard audio, seems like an issue in their company. It is terrible for first time builders and add another variable layer on making a computer FUNCTIONAL. The audio market is hot-garbage with the snake-oils being sold. And me being often an advisor for PC-building, it is insane how much ''fee-fee's of sensitive audiophile ears'' I have to deal with. That and no-so-bright people wanting PC's.It's a terrible choice. Most non-enthusiasts absolutely do not care about a DAC or the slight interface your pc gives off. Some people seem deaf to this until you point out the sounds?A heavily mediocre GPU can give interface when you even move you mouse across the screen and the coil whine of high FPS can transfer to the audio. But at that point, I should really replace my asus strix gtx970 haha. Anyway, this is very VERY rare. What is not rare is people having random BSOD's and windows issues due to bad hardware. So, it's a sad choice to remove audio.In other regards; Yes it's cheaper to remove the chips, caps, and lane separation you'd have to across the multi-layer PCB; but it's an ancient technique, already done many times, RealTek audio chips have barely changed over the decades. If you're an enthusiast, you have no-opinion or saying in this, because you'd use digital data (USB) to stream to a professional DAC anyway. Also 10$ dac's are bad. I know a few 50$ dollar ones? But non good enough to drive big headphones or sensitive in-ears. Most good ones are 300-500$.It’s silly for some-one who spends hundreds if not thousands on audio equipment to have a say in something, for someone who will not spend a dime on audio.It should be a few bucks additional to the board's price.Will the company pass down it's saved money to the consumer? Have you learned from the insanely high priced intel and AMD motherboard from the last few years?Edit: Did some dicussions with peeps. If it's on the ITX board, and it's close to the VRM/PCIe at full throttle, the audio quallity will be so bad, it's better to remove it than to have a forum filled with ''audio very bad fuzzy!''. Better to omit it, and guide people in a direction for a better experience.On ATX boards the chips and caps are at the veyr bottom, far away from the VRM or the main PCIe slot with the GPU, so it shoudl still give okay audio. This should not be removed, audio should stay on ATX boards
Honestly, I have been WAITING for this new gen of Fractal Mini/Nano for a secondary setup using old components. I use a a Define 7 Compact in my current setup, and while it isn't perfect I still really love it. It's a do it all Gaming HTPC and I don't OC so noise is more important than airflow for me (although I will pop the front panel if playing something particularly 4k intensive). It looks right at home and unobtrusive in a living room, and the build quality is great, so I want a mini for an even smaller build HTPC/light gaming rig for my Mom's place.
If Fractal wanted to really showcase that intake slope design moving more air to the gpu, they should make that a separately purchasable insert that I can add to my existing Meshify 2 C without having to buy a new case. I would be a lot more interested if it was a cheap insert I could add if trying to experiment with more airflow (not that the Meshify 2 series really needs it)
I really appreciate the easter egg at 4:57 ("do owls live in hives / Yes, and you should name your product after that fact"). Interestingly, it seems these things usually happen the other way around, as the results are all about bees moving in to owl boxes.
I reckon 'nest' would have caused legal issues
Yeah, that one caught me off guard. I had to do a double take when I realized that they only edited the hyperlink. I feel silly.
I like m-Atx cases, so I would like to see more reviews on those. Thanks for the video.
The Corsair bendy monitor was quite interesting to me. Not the product itself, but the concept. I'd absolutely love to be able to bend my LG CX to about 1000R or something like that radius while gaming, and straighten it out for watching movies.
Haven't used onboard audio for almost a decade now, so I honestly wouldn't miss it. I can imagine some Mini-ITX build having portability in mind, so onboard audio is more convenient than external DAC, but personally I might consider bluetooth headphones at that point.
Excited to hear your thoughts on the Focus. Fractal created a legend in the original... Hope they lived up to it
Between holding LMG to account for their backpack debacle, to supporting good causes like the Australian bushfire charity to the Cat Angels shelter, this is why people love you guys so much. Honest, decent people who's integrity isn't for sale. Such a rare thing nowadays. Thanks, Steve. 😆
Yes; I feel like Steve and the Gamer's Nexus folks feel like they've lucked out and are trying to pay it forward. That luck, of course, is really a lot of hard work but I find their content unfrustrating. The LMG stuff I watch always feels a bit like I'm being marketed to. The way GN compartmentalizes it makes me feel like I can deal with it without clicking off.
If you're talking about the Red Cross Foundation, they kept the money. publicly stated.
GN should make a Thanks, Steve shirt
- I'm happy with off-board audio as long as the extra port needed is taken into account when building the motherboard. - I'd love to see sub-$80 case reviews, especially in the mATX form factor - Things like the NR400 come to mind. - I have a passing interest in the View 300 but I'd watch any case review you guys put out. Maybe it'd be fun to have another video laughing at TT's design choices, though.
I'd love to see the Thermaltake case reviewed, I love the 200mm front fans.
I'm using a DAC anyway on my ITX system so I'd be down to have one shipped as onboard audio. I'm also seeing that it adds to the DAC functionality so why not? Maybe having power and reset button on it, the 7 segment debug code or a display to show boot informations would make it even more appealing to me.
I think if it leads to genuine space savings for other features on an ITX board it's acceptable. I just wouldn't want to pay for their external DAC and I wouldn't want to see this in larger size boards.
Regarding case pricing, 80-200 is the price range I usually look into, but it would be nice to have insight into cheaper cases, as when I'm building for other people, they are almost every time less concerned with case features as long as the case can house a PC and perform adequately.
bottom of the barrel cases are the funnest reviews
@SenileOtaku look into a corsair 760t but ull have to get one used, i absolutely love one ive got for my spare build, it is a big heavy bastard but got 3 bays and good airflow
@SenileOtaku Yeah, the death of optical drive bays kinda sucks. The only real options now are no-name brands, usually low-end stuff from the big guys, and Fractal, who are seemingly dedicated to keeping at least one 5.25" bay as an option in a lot of their cases to the bitter end. I mean, I'm not against ditching the drive. I've had plenty of computers in the past that lacked them and I've never really needed it for life critical things in the last decade. However, sometimes I like popping in a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray/having an expensive and non-water safe cup holder for those epic gaming moments.
Again, cases without optical drive bays. Entirely useless for my uses. The system I built this year uses an old IBM x3200 server case.
I just want a case with good airflow with dust capture and no windows. why can't I just have solid panels. I don't need a disco sitting next to me on my desk. :-)
If they had another PCI slot instead of the LED BS, then removing the internal audio could make sense. You could make a pretty epic build that way, full on SAS card and a full size GPU, external DAC for output/input switching and all in a compact case.
I have a Fractal Meshify 2 case. And that top panel removal is so incredibly nice for dealing with the dual 12V 8 pin CPU connectors along the top of the motherboard on Intel Z690.
I honestly don’t mind the smaller and larger versions of the same case. I often find myself doing a build and wishing they made the case just a bit bigger or smaller in some way.
For a gaming setup, I prefer external (usb) audio, so missing on-board audio is not a big deal for me. However, I hope the board still features diagnostic leds / beeps because no-boot scenarios are going to be annoying without those.
Case reviews are one of my favorite topics at GN, so when the question is "should GN test this case", I vote "yes". Case and tower cooler reviews are two things that GN does really well and in a way that very few (or no one) do.
yes my favorite videos are when Steve reviews a case or a prebuilt pc always good fun
Removing onboard audio makes sense in a world where the vast majority of displays are connected by HDMI or DisplayPort. Keeping the signal digital for as long as possible has the benefit of reducing the risk of interference from all the high frequency components present in a PC.
Definitely want to see a full review on the Thermaltake View 300. I'm unapologetically biased for 200mm fans, but people need to be well-versed on their pros and cons, especially as it pertains to case installation.
Yeah I'm interested in the new Thermaltake case, I have one of their special cases already and I'm in the market for a new computer so it would be nice to know how it performs.
With onboard audio, I feel like it would be best if there were easy ways to install an equivalent of onboard audio going forward with, say, a card bundled in with your motherboard, or just cards with widespread availability at PC stores, and then allow people to more easily dedicate their audio to their own hardware if they choose. I would hope this could be refined to be as simple a process as installing an SSD in the future, or a PCI slot component.If onboard audio is going to be a mainstay feature, it would have to become competitive in terms of performance-to-hassle required to set up your own DAC. Like, I've been meaning to get a separate DAC down the line, for the sole reason that I want to get really good headphones down the line (those Aych Dee Six Hungeos are calling out to me like a monkey on my back). The only thing I'm aware of is that good headphones need a lot of ohms to drive them. I get the impression that motherboards don't really go that high, but whenever I look up "how many ohms (sound chip on motherboard)", I get info that someone who is into audio engineering would probably find helpful and that I don't find helpful. If motherboards were gonna crank the ohms to the high heavens (disregarding sound quality or investment required to do such a thing), be open about how high your cans can crank it, and make it so all I have to do is plug my wonky headband into my computer as normal, then by all means keep onboard audio as standard. Otherwise, we could be setting a standard that continues to let people who don't really care get on with their day, *and* provide enthusiasts with a bit more flexibility at the same time. Maybe I've made a wonky assumption down the line, but I feel like these aren't impossibly impractical paths to go down.
I can actually get behind the lack of on-board audio for an ITX motherboard. Asus has had a nightmarish time with motherboard real estate on their ITX AM4 boards, many components ended up being way too close to the PCIE slot, creating massive compatibility issues with GPUs that had thick backplates.
@MASADA DENIER yea, buy more shit! Contribute to e-waste, you poor!
@mjc0961 With the x670e-i you literally get a dac with 3 usb ports, 1 being bios flashback. Volume nob and flex key which you can configure.
@Jan NOOOOOO NOT MY LOSSLESS FLAC FILES SAVE MEEEEEEEE HP LOVECRAFTS CAT
Every modern graphics card has an on-board audio anyway. It's usually as substandard as the chip on the mobo.
@weetreat I need mic, and my monitor doesn't have a mic input, and to monitor my audio live from my mic, I cannot use the USB interface, so I have to plug everything in analog using the 3.5mm jack.
What ASUS should do is move audio from analog interfacing to digital, twin nics for DANTE/AES67/AVB, then it really would be a pro content creator motherboard, or even going the whole way and implementing SMPTE ST 2110, which is slowly becoming the industry media network protocol, would love to see one variation or the other on the ProArt motherboards, which I incidentally use at the moment….
I support more case reviews. I'd like to see more of that Thermaltake case and maybe their S100 as well.
:) Lets hope the upcoming AM5 platform performs as well as expected.
As long as the DAC is as least as good as what would have come on the board (including connectivity options), it's not really an issue imo.
As long as there is savings from dropping the onboard audio, I’m all for that industry wide. However, this is from a competitive gamer’s perspective, where we typically elect to get a good DAC anyways. But…they don’t need to provide their own DAC if it’s caca, because that defeats my point on savings…
Cases 50-70$ range would be interesting, also looking forward to ATX 3.0 power supply reviews
Personally I'm fine with onboard audio being removed from a particular model mobo. External DACs and amps aren't exactly common for the average user, but they're getting a lot more popular on the enthusiast side. At least the ones who care about decent audio. I wouldn't use that monstrosity they're selling though. I wouldn't want the lack of onboard audio to become the norm, but there definitely is a market. Now, if only that could be a _cost saving_ feature for those who know they'd never use it...
The lack of onboard audio on an ITX board is actually something that interests me. I have several servers some of which are in ITX form factor and for my uses, not having onboard audio isn't any detriment to how I would use them.
@6:00 Audiovisual engineer here. While great strides have been made over the years with onboard audio, there's an ever-present risk of picking up switching noise from the electrically noisy things on the motherboard. (Power supply VRMs, or more accurately their coils, are one major example.) Obviously, this has potential implications for the noise floor in the audio. Having said that, the degree to which the typical human can _hear_ that noise is the subject of intense debate by sound nerds. (In most cases, particularly with hardware over the last 10 years, the answer is "no.") So, the external DAC in the ROG Strix board is probably a marketing fluff bit, it does have some engineering merit to it. Besides, talking about a mini-ITX motherboard, they could probably use the board space for something else.
@Thomas Sturges-Allard Good point -- the mic input would definitely benefit from this. But even if they got the power filtering right, there's still the issue of preamplifier noise. The general migration to doing everything over USB seems to strike a good balance -- the audio companies can take care of the power and noise issues, and the motherboard maker just has to worry about having enough USB ports.
What I see as more important is the microphone input. Onboard audio out has got really good but they pay less attention to the audio interface. There are a few DACs with a basic audio interface for headset compatibilty like the Schitt Hela 2 but I want to see them become cheaper, more mainstream, and with a bit more focus on the Mic In.
You really can bring an old GPU back to peak performance with thermal grizzly. I replaced the crusty old paste on my 1080ti and now it's so quiet and way cooler. Around 20c cooler. (Yeah it was getting critical)
I've had these mini-itx Asus motherboards in the past and I've only ever used audio via HDMI, Bluetooth, or headset with its own dongle. I do have one use case where optical on board would be handy but that seems it doesn't require a lot of DAC components.
If they supply a separate DAC with the MB I see no problem with it, ASUS have the experience for it and it would probably be in a better quality than what they could've crammed onto the MB, especially in such a small form factor.Not to mention it would eliminate all of the electric noise that a built-in suffers from.
In my opinion ASUS found it would be hard/expensive to place a DAC on a board with all the features on x670 E so they went "it's not a bug, it's a feature" on us.
I’d definitely like to see more microatx or mini itx type cases. I’m trying to build a smaller gaming pc and there’s just not as much coverage for the smaller cases.
If the Hive is bundled, I'm all for it. Looks like they gave it some convenient features that can prevent needing to access the back of my PC!
5:40 not very sad to see it go. It's not great anyways and if they give you an external one then I see no issue apart from minor inconvenience . If you really care about audio you should get an audio interface anyways. Doesn't need to be anything expensive, a Behringer UMC22 will do fine.
I'm not 100% against removing onboard audio from some ITX boards, but only because onboard audio has been getting worse and worse on most ITX boards.I would instead prefer ASUS to add a second USB 3.0 header and make a corresponding "card" USB -> backplate slot that's intended for use in the third slot of the now-common triple slot ITX cases.Also, frankly I find Intel product SKUs pretty easy to keep track of so I don't really get why Steve rags on them this much.
I actually think the "no onboard audio" would be a great thing for enthusiasts on high end, atx boards. Because anyone who does professional audio work gets a much higher quality DAC anyway, so why not save a little money and move the savings to the consumer? In a best case scenario, anyway.
Onboard audio OUTPUT is pretty good these days but what isn't given so much attention is mic-in. If this Strix Hive box has an audio interface (i.e analogue to digital - opposite of a DAC) that is of good quality then this is a real upgrade. Audiphile DACs are rubbish for gamers as you still end up having to plug your mic into the motherboard making a mess of your cables.
except no cost savings is passed on to the consumer and would still be sold as a "premium" product.
That is, if the saving actually get passed on to the consumer. Which is often not the case.
As a music producer I've had audio interfaces as my.main audio for over a decade. I think with the rise of podcast and home producers the onboard audio can go on ITX models.
As someone who really enjoys the look of 200mm fans, I'd love it if the Thermaltake View 300 got a look! There don't seem to be many interesting cases that have 200mm fan support.
As I understand it, an external DAC should actually give better audio quality than onboard. So, as long as it is included with the motherboard and the board has a reasonable price, then I don't really see any issue with it tbh. Bonus points to Asus for thinking outside the box when it comes to cramming everything onto a tiny board!
I can see the Corsair bendy screen having some benefits. You produce one SKU instead of several, packaging can be flatter allowing for more units per shipping container, and customers can shape their screen according to how far away from it they sit, reducing "I bought the wrong curvature and now my eyes get tired when I quickly glance back and forth around the screen" syndrome.
I could care less about having analog audio ports, but I would really like to see more ITX mobos with S/PDIF OUT ports.
HDMI audio is fine tbh, easy enough to snatch the audio out of that port if you need to for some exotic reason.Also SPDIF is an old, old standard, and it's probably time to move on tbh.
Sadly trying to actually use digital out sucks, at least if you're trying to do anything other than stereo. All the software for windows, Dolby, etc is junk and can't maintain surround output.
You could care less? So, right now, you care to some non-zero level that you could then potentially, hypothetically, care less than, including not care at all?
I wonder if there is a price reduction in the board? I hope so, otherwise, I will need to buy a seperate DAC!
I moved to an external DAC years ago now. Better sound and less interference, it's also handy to have a physical dial to control the volume (or at least I prefer that), so no onboard sound is fine with me, as I just turn it off anyway.
After reading a review from NwAvGuy, I used a Behringer UCA 222 DAC for a good while. However, after 2 of them broke and my laptop randomly stopped creating background static, I went back to using the onboard audio. To me DACs are an extra possible point of failure, only to be used if onboard audio has failed. So I would have to agree that removing the onboard option is odd.
On Cases: The most expensive case I've ever had was $120, and all the ones before that were
I’ve haven’t used onboard audio since windows xp era. Using external dac amps isn’t hugely common, but so much better
I Love the charity drives :3Also, The Asus motherboard is kinda cool in some ways, personally i find it great to not have a generic audio outlet but at the same time it definitely is not catered to manyLike i cant just put my STX II in that board, Ill need a GPU, besides there is very limited support on the audio card front for compatibility, I do prefer drop in cards for my usage but man the support really needs to be there.At the same time this board could be really nice to have for the OP home setups because of this unit, gives me plans at least, and i find the drop in cards just simpler to use than getting some USB DAC setup that ends up being iffy with one of my USB cards and needing to use an additional plug socket that i wont turn off just to power the thing.
I maybe an edge case, but since I build computers mainly for audio production, one of the first things I do in BIOS is to disable the on-board audio, since I use external audio interfaces. I would like to see more motherboards with on-board Thunderbolt support though. This was one of the reasons why I went with Gigabyte Designare motherboard for my last build (running i9-9900k).
The onboard audio out of my x570 itx motherboard is fine and not having it is super annoying. I really hope that they include a usb audio adapter, even a cheap one would be nice.
Sounds like a good time to get a mod mat and help some cats at the same time!
Exactly what I was thinking.
For myself, no audio connectors are ok, because I always use outboard audio interfaces, USB or FireWire. On my computers (9) the audio is disabled in the BIOS. But for most normal users, this might be a problem. It depends on what you do with your computers.
For me this no onboard audio entirely depends on how good that DAC is. Is it higher quality than an onboard?
It makes sense on a premium board if there claiming to give premium audio since external dacs have been claimed to be better for years due to being near less noise aka your computer. so if you care about premium sound but at the same time to lazy to just buy a schictt dac its probably a good solution
Part of me thinks that the external DAC on the ASUS ITX board is kind of a good idea. Onboard audio, while convenient as hell and quite sufficient for at least 90% of users, is still notoriously lossy and EM-noisy, at least in standardized lab tests, even in spite of the last decade of "we isolated the audio circuitry with this cool LED-lined strip". Assuming that ASUS did their in-house DAC properly, extreme audiophiles should convince themselves to be quite happy with it. Also assuming, of course, that they're extreme audiophiles who are also small-form-factor buffs and absolutely 100% adamant about building a small-form-factor computer with audio capabilities that can meet their literally-not-even-an-audible-difference demands. And honestly, I'd expect no less from Asus, the company that prides itself on finding out-of-the-box ways to make their ITX boards as feature-packed as possible just to spite the ITX size demands. (I'd point to the Maximus VI Impact (Z87), Maximus VII Impact (Z97), and Z87-i Deluxe boards, among others, which offloaded the VRMs entirely to one daughterboard and the onboard audio to another, or anything Asus has made in ITX with a DIMM.2 slot, or whichever of their latest ITX boards they made that offloaded the audio chipset to a secondary daugherboard that was sandwiched with one or two M.2 drives. I'm too lazy and post-work sleep-deprived to look up more specific examples, but GN ought to remember the ones I'm talking about, basically every higher-end Asus ITX board since 2013, really.)Another part of me thinks that it's a hugely insignificant gimmick, aimed at that small percent of a percent of users who want to be full-on audiophiles, whether they're actually honestly able to hear the difference or not, wrapped up that way to cover the fact that they couldn't fit everything else they wanted to fit onto the board, and decided that the onboard audio was the next thing to go.I dunno, I'm torn.I'm a DJ, so working with a digital vinyl system (like Serato or Traktor) is second nature to me. And I'm a college-educated music major who spent years studying music and sound. And I can 100% guarantee that if I took an actual vinyl record of a track on one turntable, and an MP3 of that track on the other turntable through the DVS, and sync'ed them up, and just randomly bounced the crossfader between one and the other, literally NO ONE on the dance floor could tell the difference. Heck, let me set the same thing up in my studio with one of these "extreme audiophiles" and blindfold them and let them try to hear the difference. They can't. The difference is Just. Not. Perceptible.Thus, it is my completely-unexpert opinion that Asus' external DAC is entirely a result of them just wanting more PCB real estate for other things, and deciding to offload the onboard audio onto an external component, and everything else is just marketing to cover that up. I wouldn't mind them proving me wrong - and I'd be willing to adopt it to get rid of the external controls for my current Creative speakers, whose external volume control scales from barely-audible to waking-up-my-neighbors with about 1 or 2 degrees of rotation of the volume dial.But I'm not going to pretend that their external DAC is going to somehow transform my gaming experience, OR my music production experience. They just wanted to get the onboard audio off the board.
As long as the DAC is performant, why not. In theory the DAC leaving the case should allow for more noise isolation and superior performance.
I'm excited to see what the next set of coasters will be. I want my "bar" to be fully stocked with GN swag
I use external audio interface anyway, so I guess losing onboard audio isn't that big of a deal, especially if that makes board cheaper even by 10 or 20 euros, I think it is OK.
So external DAC's are typically clearer on audio due to interference right? Would be interesting to test. That being said, a lot of folks use headsets mainly or can get 5.1/7.1 audio through GPU so it is kinda superfulous. I am one of the weirdos that still uses 5.1 analog on my PC. I do like the external USB dock idea though could be interesting.
Can't say I've used onboard audio in the past 10-15 years so I can do without it but they better offer something in its place to better the product for the price because I'm sure they aren't going to lessen that for the change lol
For the cases. I'd like to see how those perform. As for under 80 I'm curious to find something under 80 that is worth it. You know, something that just work. I would also like to find a decent case that have room for a Blu-ray drive. And the lack of audio on a mobo is a no for me. They should at least leave a single output. Even if it's basically a USB to 3.5 combo jack done internally. It would occupy about the same space as a USB. Can't wait for a monitor to have the "Over 9000!" CMR. I remember some TVs that had the bending feature.
More case reviews would be good. mATX seems to be neglected.
I do use an external DAC, so I'm not inherently against it. But if I didn't already use a DAC I would be furious.There are very cheap and competent (better that on board ones) DACs out there now though, so maybe it's time?Of course, it has to make boards that much cheaper, or add replacing features/IO of an equivalent value.
Extremely happy to see more ITX options, but pretty disappointed to see onboard audio removed. It's just more expense and an extra USB port taken up for yet another box on my desk that used to just be in the motherboard.
@wishus knight Thanks for bearing with me lol
@Walczyk ahh i see! yeah they are not often very stable.
@wishus knight hrm, i was thinking more about high end discrete cards from asus and creative; the drivers crash amd systems like it was designed that way
@Walczyk This motherboard comes with a dac, its external. And it uses composite usb drivers, meaning it doesn't requiere extra software. I think it does have a software suite for it, but its not needed for basic functionality.
@wishus knight we are talking about a mobo that has no dac. pc audio is in a HORRIBLE state. all sound card drivers are absolute trash
I have no issues removing on board audio all together, external DACs are significantly better anyways. Ive personally never had a situation where I needed onboard audio to fix an issue. I'm sure there is an occasional situation where it can be helpful but certainly is not a 100% necessity.
I think, onboard-audio satisfies only basic requirements like the integrated graphics of a CPU. If you want high / higher quality audio you have to take a quite high tier and expensive motherboard, a separate internal sound card or an external solution. Sound cards or external DACs often are a better solution. For me manufacturers can get rid of low quality sound on most consumer motherboards and make their products instead a little bit cheaper - but that´s not how it works 😉. I use these DACs en.sharkoon.com/product//27415 and en.sharkoon.com/product/28276 for speakers and headphones on pc + laptop + smartphone.