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Why this Episode CONFUSED OG Clone Wars Fans So Much [The Bad Batch]
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- Published on Mar 21, 2023 veröffentlicht
- Meatbags malding
Why this Episode of the Bad Batch Made OG Clone Wars Fans SO CONFUSED Why Star Wars Fans
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:09 Holdouts
2:56 The Separatist Cause
6:08 A Desert Called Peace
8:44 Outro 
Film & Animation
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The droids died as heroes
The clones lived long enough to see themselves become the villains
@AndyTheSaladGod based
Neither were really hero’s they were just solders fighting a war
Good quote of DK
"Heroes" with a very high civilian body count that is.
Ezra bridger: "general what were the separatist fighting for?"
Kalani: according to my programming, freedom from the tyranny of the republic."
Ezra: "fighting tyranny sounds like the empire has always been your enemy."
Kalani: "you are against the empire, i am against the republic, but now the republic has become the empire, i accept your logic we are the same side."
@Z7 studios indeed his manipulations are nothing short of masterful.
Even working on the fans.
@Michael Fuller who could blame them really, though palpatine knows how to convince loyalist and republic citizens and keep things from getting out. Especially that he had the two factions on strings
@Z7 studios unfortunate that more people in the galaxy didn't realize it sooner.
@Michael Fuller indeed he was
@Z7 studios he was right about republic tyranny.
That's why I love the Rebels episode when Rex fought along with the CIS Droids. They were all just used by Sidious
@daniel shaw very well said.
It was all gray...the whole war was nothing but a giant trap, a Game who only player was Palpatine...the only way everyone could have won was to drop all their weapons and stop fighting. It's like Ezra said: "the war was never meant to be won, no matter how hard either side tried you couldn't."
In the end they got their revenge
@Peter Ni b1 battle droid to zeb: "sorry."
I always found it funny how people rooted for the CIS when it came to freedom but suddenly condemn the rebel alliance for doing the same thing.
@Kevin Gluys I guess as Mon Mothma claim "What make us different from Empire if we do same way as Empire" yet she seem approve of destruction of Death Star
Just showing how hypocrite she is
But that just what I can guess
The difference is methodology I think. The seprotist alliance engaged in a war of independence where they used military force to break away from a corrupt and overall useless government that couldn't accomplish anything in a meaningful amount of time. The rebels were very much the same in ideology but relied on what we would view in modern terms as terrorist actions to over through a government that while flawed did in fact bring order to a galaxy. All factions in star wars are flawed and when you look just at the factions there is no good or bad guy. It's just ideology. Assigning good and evil is done by character placement. Sidious bad so empire bad. Luke good so rebels good. And so on. It's actually an ingenious way of righting.
@TY 2 from Andor? When? If you are talking about Saw, he doesn't count since he was an anarchist, he didn't want to restore or change anything, his only motive was to destroy the Empire by any means necessary. He fought for the sake of it. Yes, the Alliance to restore the republic was also deluded, but they had at least planned to help the galaxy even if the NR was worse.
Tbf there were differences since we know in legends and even in andor that rebels and separatists didn't see eye to eye on everything and sometimes outright refused to help one another
So, Palpetine’s deceptions were so effective they worked on the fans too…
Yep......
We we're all Bootlickers as kids
The Empire are the good guys
pretty much. people that saw rebels all the way through or saw some of the problems in the Republic from some of the highlight episodes on the topic probably realized it, i am one of those, just like the whole Empire/Rebels thing where people needed to see goodish imps and bad rebels to believe that they weren't all one way, where it always made sense that not everyone could be as noble as Luke and Leia's group.
Palpatine was right!
This episode is the perfect description of wars. Sometimes, there's no real good option to root for. The clones were cloned to "defend" the Republic, but also to create the Empire.
The Separatists wanted independence, but didn't have leaders who cared about the innocent people that just wanted to live in peace.
Both sides existed to be destroyed, and their wars were for nothing but death. Death of freedom, people, and ultimately, public opinion and burnt bridges with planets that we get brief mentions about after the formation of the New Republic
Wonderfully said
@Nighteyes Shadowwolf I don't know why but your comment reminded me of that history documentary I saw once that went over the historical context of Star Wars and the imagery in it. It was quite interesting to see where real life stuff was an inspiration for the story.
I think that was all part of sidious's plan to make an eventual third option (the empire) seem like a good thing to most people.
Clone Wars did this so well. Starts off easy, black and white. Ends off deeply gray.
"Both sides existed to be destroyed" Exactly this. The Empire could not have happened without the absolute corruption of the Republic
The Droid army wasn’t evil, just often under the control of the wrong people. Battle droids were very much a symbol of hope for many.
Even though the clones were the "bad guys", I think Crosshair was the only clone who remained to the empire of his own free will. Cody betrayed Kenobi because he was brainwashed by those inhibitor chips. Episode 3 of the bad batch season 2 shows that Cody's chip had diminished it's effects. He'd shown significant signs of free will compared to when Palpateen ordered him to execute order 66.
@TOrNn ngl my friend u legit only say that cos u saw tcw which only really showed the good. Jedi like anakin obi wan and plo koon weren't the standard, majority of the jedi weren't liked by clones cos of the fact they didn't understand military tactics and would sacrifice more clone lives in order to protect say civilians when the clones would recognise easier ways to win battles simply thru making small sacrifices. That alongside the fact the a lot of jedi were colder than those mentioned above and yh u got clones that wouldn't have much issue following an order too kill jedi they weren't too fond of, especially when that order comes from the supreme chancellor who they're programmed to obey from birth without the chip. The real world shows countless examples of good men following orders, the chips are just the child's version of the real version we got in the old EU
@Rainstrider Streamflower While I think the ROTS novel is outdated on what Cody's mindset would be. I don't think it is fair to say that him executing the order of his own free will would make him unlikable. Anymore than Anakin's fall making him unlikable. The point of clones following the order of their own free will is to demonstrate how the clones too were tricked by the deception and carried out their orders believing they did the right thing, only to realize later they didn't. It gave differing mindsets on the clones too.
@Zachary Rollick I actually like the chip retcon since if I didn’t happen that would make clones like Cody Unlikable for executing order 66. In the ROTS novelization (Which isn’t canon), Cody executed order 66 with his own free will and his only regret was giving Kenobi his “bloody lightsaber” before complying with the order.
Yeah the original Clone Wars multimedia project handled clones way better, staying more in line to what was seen in the movies and creating less genetically engineered clone types closer to Jango for stories that required clone individualism and the ability to question orders. 2005 Battlefront 2 campaign was a great example of how the regular clones didn't need chips.
Honestly, I'll never favor the inhibitor chip retcon. I preferred the old way where it was a near irresistible biological compulsion without any sort of trance state. Their body carried out the order even if they did want to while they were fully conscious of their actions. Though most were completely fine with with any order because of their biological programming and because they had faced mental condition since birth. I remember one comic where some clones were talking with their Jedi, received Order 66, promptly blasted him, and just shrugged it off because it was a direct order. Much to the horror of a civilian child the clones had befriended.
Not only was it an amazing Episode, but it was Visually so good. The Scene where the tank was shooting at Crosshair and the dirt was just raining over him. Its so good.
Also, the Little horror type scene where the droidikas were rolling round was amazing as well
I loved that slow motion shot of the droid falling into the shield
@Jeremy Owens the high five was so damn funny 😂
Don't forget that high five...
yes
I was always confused why people were shocked or expected more clones to defy the chips. Rex doing it was a huge deal. Almost every clone enjoyed or didn't mind killing the Jedi and this was never hidden. Yes Cody eventually goes AWOL but that was after order 66. A clone not killing their Jedi commander was almost unheard of
@Alex Blanco 24 that's the point of the tragedy. Each of the clones the Jedi made bonds with knew about the plan all along.
Not to mention, in the eyes of the empire, it’s likely that Rex killed Ahsoka.
@Alex Blanco 24 Facts
@ChoclateMilk But they would have been like droids because they chose to be. And that would be great irony there.
I think the reason crosshair episodes work so well is because this is what people truly want out of the bad batch, an exploration of the ride of the empire and clones after order 66. I still wish they didn’t make Cody turn so early tho
I always root for the Clones, personally. Like, I want them to survive and escape their bonds.
But politically? I support the CIS. At least, where Dooku isn't involved directly, lmao.
Count Dooku did nothing wrong
@Twisted Fate Fate MK2
No it isn't. But taking the whole thing off certainly is and most sane ppl agree we never should have reached the point where the matter was open to a debate.
@YoungBoH23 Yeah, circumcision sure is damaging.
I loved seeing the CIS again and finally as a post Clone Wars hold out. I hope we see more in the future, and see how they help or disagree with the rebel alliance.
@Apollo Knight agreed! That would be epic! CIS forever!
Better yet a show that shows the perspective of the CIS.
Hello there!
Agreed General! CIS forever!
So are we just supposed to ignore the Grand Army being formed in response to Kenobi discovering the massive Separatist Droid Army on Geonosis that Dooku admitted was to force independence at gun point?
@Philipp3022 The clones were made before the droid army was revealed, but the Grand Army of the Republic was formed after the droid army was discovered, with the executive powers given Palpatine in response to the Separatist Crisis (meaning the droid army).
I'm assuming that those CIS council members were the ones in on the siths goals and thus helped dooku and Palpatine forward the efforts of the confederacy for the fact of it being a war effort and not much else besides that
The rest that we see in the background like in the clone wars are the actual people fighting for a better life for the people they are a part of and/or advocate for
@FreakyMan2789
I forget, is Ryloth part of the Republic? Considering it seems they get raided all the time.
@FreakyMan2789 I am rather certain that the Republic tolerated slavery quite a lot (amongst other horrible things). If I do remember correctly, the invaders of Grievous's homeworld were slavers...And the Republic defended them against Grievous
@General Grievous slavery is outlawed in the Republic, Padme states as much in Episode 1.
The Jedi and Republic forced the Zygerrian slave empire into the shadows, hence the Zygerrian's hatred of the Republic and Jedi.
Locations OUTSIDE of Republic jurisdiction like Tatooine and other Outer Rim worlds did have Slaves. The Republic was unable to handle worlds outside of jurisdiction, and while the Zygerrians operated in the shadows under the Republic, the complete elimination of crime in literally any universe (fictional or real) is a complete impossibility. However, to imply or outright state that the Republic WASNT anti-slavery is 100% flat-out wrong.
Best part of the Ep was whenever Cody was trying to be the same Republic hero the lighting made his gray parts of his armor look a little more orange
Can you provide timestamps for it?
Count Dooku and General Grievous made great villains and were truly evil while leading the CIS. I think what this episode and the Rebel Alliance make the same point, that seeking independence itself is not wrong and that your methods determine your alignment to good or evil.
@General Grievous I know you want a grievous origin story as much as I do lol
@Meta Flight Or Rogue One.
Lmao, methods.
Someone needs to watch Andor.
The thing is, Dooku and Grievous were never pure evil. Even the faces of the supposed evil of the CIS were, in their own ways, well intentioned (at least initially). Dooku's motives have been thoroughly explored, and essentially come down to his being a political idealist who despises corruption and the way the Republic Senate ignored its people. Dooku wanted a reformed galaxy, as opposed to total rule for himself, and was, in a way, just as used and misled by Palpatine as everyone else, given that's what the latter promised he'd get in the end.
Grievous was more straightforward. He wanted revenge. Revenge for his people, who were slaughtered, in essence, for defending themselves against violent invaders who then ran crying to the Republic when they had to face retribution. Grievous' loathing for the Jedi and the Republic are the result of that injustice, and his way of avenging the people he once led. Homage to his fallen troops can be seen in the design and dress of his personal magna guards.
I think this is what makes them, as you said, great villains. Villains shouldn't be one dimensional mustache twirlers who do bad things just for fun. It's always more interesting when they do bad things with a cause, for the greater good, or to avenge a previous wrong. Relatable motives, harsh actions.
Episode 3 is so freaking cool i love it can't stop watching it
Same already watched it 3 times best episode of the season so far
Yee
People are far too easy to manipulate based on who is telling the story.
One of the first things I learned when reading police reports and then interviewing the defendants - everyone has an agenda or story they want to tell. And everyone is real convincing.
“The villain is always the villain if the hero is telling the story “
Indeed, that’s why propaganda is extremely effective
I say we should all have sympathy for the Slave Soldiers on both sides of the Clone Wars.
@Malaficus Shaikan It's not surprising that your only subscriptions are to Arch.
@predalien1413---Now that would be a super interesting "What if."
It’s why I always wondered what if both clones and droids decided to rebel and formed their own faction.
@Broken Bridge the point is, we shouldn't have sympathy for most of the separatists.
No.
We dont feel pity for slaves.
Free them or use them.
No pity but not my problem excuees.
The Rise of the Empire will show how much of a Tyrant Palpatine really was during the Clone Wars as he casually crushes any dissent that poses a threat to his Empire, and the tragedy of the Clones is that they are Good Soldiers and Good Men that will serve a corrupt government and a evil monster at its heart.
They got replaced for it too
The fact that pretty much everyone throughout the Galaxy was victimized and in some way by the Sith's schemes and manipulations is quite sad. The Common people, Clones, and Jedi alike would all suffer great injustices as a result.
I wish that senator was someone we'd seen or meet beforehand and not just some COTD made specifically for this episode. Should've been Lux Bontari, at least be a character we're familiar with. Getting to the main topic, yes, the clones weren't fighting for a just cause, they were only slaves, deserves sympathy. As for the CIS, they're mostly relegated to one episode or brief mentions for all the Post-CW content, I wish they could more of an arc that focuses on them and a protagonist faction in the future. They're not all bad.
@Mrionzo oh yeah, sorry, I will correct it.
@TK-??? did he get killed? I thought Iden stunned him
Lux Bonteri became one of the Partisan ring leaders. He hatches a plot to blow up a school which happened to be made by the Empire and gets defeated by Inferno Squad. We don't know what happened to him but Iden never heard about him again so it is unlikely he re-joined the Rebellion.
Wish we would get more droids in post-CW content
I personally think this was an excellent writing choice. We’re seeing hero’s become villains and or struggle with what side to choose now that order 66 has somewhat run its course. I feel it’s supposed to tug at your heart strings while also making you confused. The same way the clones themselves are feeling.
For me, when watching a series, it's common for me to not rewatch any of the episodes for a while after they are released...
The S2 episode (I call it "The Cody Episode") is an exception. I rewatched this episode 2ce over solely because of how well it was written and because of all the little details sprinkled out.
I LOVED the views when Cody and the gang were in those tight narrow alleyways and staircases. It's definitely gives you a sense of realistic suburban / urban combat conditions.
As a Separatist sympathizer, I love your content.
Its sad Dooku went from defending the people to stealing from his own people. In a way Dooku became just like that senator in tales of the jedi.
In a way, the clones were always depicted as the bad guys. In film, scenes usually have the 'good guys' on screen left moving to screen right, whereas the 'bad guys' are on the right side of the screen moving left. In Clone Wars the Clone Army was often depicted as facing in the 'bad guy' direction. Remember in season 7 where the clones and droids face off on a bridge? Whenever they show the battle from the side, the clones are on the right and charging towards the droids who are screen left.
Note in epsidoe 3 the clones are almost always on the left moving right in battle scenes. Be it before or during order 66.
There are no heroes here, only villains and victims.
The real question is, did Cody really go AWOL or did Rampart kill him?
Pretty cool seeing Clone Stormtroopers in action, hopefully we see more of them on Vaders side.
Sad thing is really everyone was played by Palpatine. The CIS was never going to win from the start and if they did I doubt the people with actual power would give them what they wanted. On the other side the Jedi and clones were just tools to be thrown away when their use was over.
That said, I wouldn’t quite say the CIS were just the defenders. In Attack of the Clones the movie opens with Nute Gunray trying to kill Senator Amidala twice(through Jango), if that isn’t an act of war then I don’t know what is.
To be fair, we don't know how much that's due to Palpatine's influence. Gunray seems like someone too cowardly to attempt orchestrating something like that, even though he is more than willing to participate. Also, he's just one of many leaders in CIS.
@Stone Sky Sunrise not necessarily
Technically he tried to kill padme before he joined the cis movement.
And no, a private indidual attempting to assinate a representative is not an act of war. Refusing to hand them over to face the crime is arguebly an act of war. But not according to current concensus (hence Austria-Hungary is blaimed for starting ww1 and not Serbia).
Pretty much Sidious would be ontop no matter who won the war
I wish we would get more episodes like this soon.
Separatist fan from the start
Love the droid army since seeing the prequels, even more so after playing the original Star Wars Battlefront
I thought it was supposed to be obvious from the beginning that the clones were always just Stormtroopers by a different name. Even in the clone wars they used cheesy propaganda tactics with the narrator all the time and kind of beat you over the head with the fact that they were really pushing the good guy narrative suspiciously hard
@TK-??? Granted, Grievous WAS evil. He took great pleasure in what he did.
Yeah, he literally says 'the *evil* droid, General Grievous!' in TBB episode 1
The Clone Wars cartoon came out after Revenge of the Sith so we all knew going into it that the Clones were always going to be instrumental in bringing about the end of the Jedi and The Republic. So the fact that we got to know the clones just make their betrayal more painful.
As the opening crawl of Episode III states:
"There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere."
Both the CIS and the Republic believed they were fighting for something noble. The CIS wanted to break away from a system they saw as irredeemably corrupt and ineffective, while the Republic wanted to preserve the order that had maintained galactic stability for centuries. The problem is that, in both cases, the people who held actual power were monsters looking to advance their own interests at the expense of millions of innocent lives.
And for the record, the Republic's attack on Geonosis was not "unprovoked". The Geonosians had illegally arrested a Jedi conducting a legitimate criminal investigation and were planning to execute him, along with a second Jedi and a diplomat who had intended to negotiate his release. The Republic assault on Geonosis was intended to rescue these political prisoners.
@Nihili Well, the Republic argued that secession was illegal and that Geonosis was still part of the Republic, so from that perspective Obi-Wan's presence on the planet was legal. Also, as the Senator for Naboo, Padme could sanction her own diplomatic missions and thus be granted diplomatic immunity (Leia later attempted to use the same legal principles to shield herself from Darth Vader), and her show trial and execution were meant to send a message to the Republic, making her a political prisoner.
Like you said, arguments can be made for both sides. It really depends on whether or not you consider the secession of the CIS to have been legal. Given the real-world inspiration of the CIS, I'm inclined to say it wasn't.
Obi-wan's arrest was arguably illegitimate, but if I recall correctly, both Padme and Anakin had no official reason to be there.
Also, wasn't Geonosis declared to no longer be part of Republic, therefore be excluded from their jurisdiction?
That's the problem. We can make arguments for both sides, and be in relatively murky right.
The Senate does not get confused due to his massive intellectual prowess.
Yes, yes...
I literally watched this episode this morning for the first time and I felt the same way, but as a Transformera fan, I always had to root for the droids.
I'm glad the Confederacy is getting more love. Underrated faction if you ask me
You raise an interesting argument. I still believe in the clones in their effort to fight and to engage in war in a proper manner like any soldier. They just got bad orders, and also a bad situation. They did what they had to do. But they call them bad is definitely wrong
Good soldiers follow orders, huh?
Being a soldier doesn't make you automatically better than if you weren't. And ignorance doesn't justify anything either. In the end there was not that much difference between droids and clones. I would even argue tha they were much more similar than I feel comfortable with.
I always supported the CIS! I was so happy to see that good side of theirs that we almost never see in that episode!
There was that one CW arc where we saw the CIS and Republic meet to iron out their differences and the war. The actual peoples of both sides wanted peace, and were displeased with the constant war and fighting. In that arc, we saw the enemy as Dooku and Sidious, not the CIS, and not the Republic.
Thats what I came to realize as I got older. Despite being portrayed as otherwise, the CIS had a much better cause to fight for than the Republic did.
That may be so, but when you look at it from the perspective that the war was orchestrated by Palpatine, the cause to fight matters so much less. Though practically no one knew it, no one was really fighting for anything. The war was just a tool to thin out the Jedi, and create a war-weary galaxy that would be eager to accept a "peacekeeping" Empire. With a few exceptions, the outcome of every battle was determined from the start.
Now I'm totally sure. We need a star wars story in which some CIS politicians are the protagonists. We know so little about them during the clone wars other than about Dooku, Grievous and the battle droids.
There are several in "Legends". For instance, the Mon Calamari people were originally Separatists before TCW was made. There was an arc about a Mon Calimari hero general that was so good, he was threatening Palpatine's plans for the war.
I completely agree. Or maybe a noble CIS Commander or General.
Im so pumped for tomorrow's episode!!! And yeah i agree when watching ep3 as much as i wanted to root for crosshair and cody i found myself rooting for the seppies and their plucky battle droids.
He didn't have plot armor ):
I started rooting for Nova, one of the troopers. RIP.
This is the best bad batch episode in the whole season so far
My thought on the clones haven’t really changed. We all new they were destined to become Stormtrooper and just like in real life, there are no good/bad guys. Only various shades of gray.
Was it just me or did anyone else get excited when they saw the droids were back in the clone wars I found these guys hilarious and that holds up in this episode I especially loved the part where the droid mocks the imperial officer 😂
If all the episodes were like this, the show would be so much better.
We mustn't forget how the Clones responded to natural disasters and rescued citizens in need. During the Clone Wars, the Clones showed heart, and a willingness to battle corruption in multiple episodes. That's why we often loved and admired them.
Son, it's okay. We just got different things out of the Clone Wars. The Clones weren't perfect, but I appreciated their humanity. The Clones demonstrated their good and bad on many occasions. No hard feelings. Have a good night and a good year.
@Brian Donovan Battling the slavers wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts, that was ordered to happen. The Ryloth arc was literally set up to make them look good, it wasn't an accident that Tambor, someone who was clearly a neutral war profiteer and not a Seppie and who knew about the Sith Grand Plan took all of the wealth *for himself* and left the CIS looking like the bad guys. I mean Ryloth had reason to consider joining the CIS up until that point! Meanwhile they were perfectly fine with enslaving the Geos and knowingly and willingly helped make the Death Star.
@tk-6967 I respect your opinion, but you just have to watch the whole series. Ryloth Arc, battling the Slavers, Fives tackling Palpatine, etc... Some good stuff. But yes, War is never easy.
No they didn't. Literally Commander Wolffe was like: 'Here are your supplies, bye now!' And when C3P0 and R2 tried to actually help fix the problem, they just straight up ignore them and leave them behind.
Wow, great topic!
I have always had the thought that our beloved rebels from the origional trilogy were alot closer aligned to the CIS ideals
But clone wars shows the oppresive central government as the "good guys"
Maybe simply due to the fact that the Jedi were fighting "for the republic"
Well said. We had a flippening.
Too bad everything was nationalized effectively by the Emperor. Droids would’ve crushed the early Empire. No Jedi, no Palpy holding back strategies and design of a purely automated fighting force.
I wouldn't have called them the protagonists of the episode just giving the antagonists more of the spotlight for an episode. It still pains me to see the clones as the bad guys but I was wanting them to lose that episode even though I kind of knew they were gonna win still. But it was still no doubt the best episode of the series imo mainly for the nostalgic feel and I was happy to know Cody went awol after this episode
@goldoan I still saw them as the antagonists as they were the villains of this episode still 🤷♀ I see the protagonist and antagonists as the good and bad guys of the story and they were very much the antagonists here
All a protagonist is is the central focus of a story. A villain like Light Yagami from Death Note is the protagonist of his story, but also the villain of his story. A protagonist is the focus and an antagonist is their opposition even if it's just for an episode.
Been a Seppie from the start, I'm glad more people are finally catching on!
I love how you describe the whole story and honestly it gives a more natural look at the situation gives a lot more blurred lines instead of black and white sorta how the soldiers on both sides of the American civil war had ground troops fighting for differing ideology’s but to the winners and losers of the war it became one side or another very well crafted video honestly
I loved this episode Bc it showed commander Cody who is known for his by the books nature questioning his allegiance. I feel Cody really humbled crosshair as well by reminding him the difference between droids and clones. At the end of the episode Cody even goes AWOL according to the officer further suggesting his discontent with the empire. Just goes to show how the clones aren’t just soldiers but thinking feeling people. Up until Cody was ordered to shoot the woman he believed in the empire restoring peace. After I believe he changed his mind. I really hope to see more Cody in this series Bc he’s one of my favorite characters.
Wdym ‘confused og fans,’ if they were OG fans, they’d know it wasn’t as black and white as parts of TCW made it out to be
OG TCW fans he meant. I have noticed this trend for people to cite Dave Filoni and act like he is the successor of GL/saviour of SW and thus his heavily flawed content is more important and thus more canon than
I think this episode is a good way to show how the clones are slowly realizing that from the time they were created from infants to full grown adult soldiers, they were being used by the Sith and knew the Clone Wars would turn into the Galactic Civil War immeadietly afterwards. Such as Fives and Rex.
who knew that the senate's plan was so powerful that it even had us rooting for them
nice vid!
For me the clones were always the ones to root for, especially in this episode, because although the now fight for the empire, the true og clones remain the same in their hearts.
I think new clone theme, that now has more of an imperial, ruling touch, still follows a very similar melody , showing that the honor and sense of duty and discipline lives on in the clones. But even more than that, the way the worked together and the fact, that the still used their names instead of designations and loving each other as a fellow brother and not soldier (nova death scene and cody wanting to save him), pretty much shows, that they are still the good men they were before. And this why regular clones will always be the best characters of this show. ( loved nova and wyler)
This is especially true when you look objectively at the Jedi during the clone wars. A reclusive religious police force not accountable to the Republic's military yet put in complete control of the same military. While we know most Jedi were good the galaxy saw warriors clad in armor invading worlds, not peacekeepers
“The villain is always the villain if the hero is telling the story “
Great episode! I agree with you guys at Geetsly's on this 100% CIS/Rebellion forever!
I realized this a long time ago. That eventually the clones will lead to the stormtroopers and we were cheering for the bad guys
Also, the other clones in the Bad Batch are lousy shots now that they have to be the bad guys. Lol. Crosshair's is just deadly no matter what.
in pretty much every war almost everyone is a victim. not only one side. not only the civilians. soldiers are tools just like the droids and the clones. there are always only a few who are the evil behind the war who send in their tools to destroy or capture something they want. i always watched the the star wars series from that perspective and thats what i loved about it because even if they where clearly made to have heroes and villains, there where also moments where the lines blurred and with the newer series like the bad batch or andor you see a lot of "behind the scenes" of war.
It was funny how i changed from rooting for clones to droids really fast
The point of the episode was to “confuse” or conflict the viewer. The writers did an amazing job without actually telling the audience what they were doing. So, yes Cody and Crosshair are the protagonists, but that doesn’t necessarily they are “good guys”. I love it
True to life. There are very rarely heroes in war. Individuals can stand out and make a small impact. But by its nature, war is all about killing, and power.
The only truth is that Darth Sidious played both sides.
I personally root for the characters I care about and want to see happy
(SPOILER WARNING BTW)
For one side, it means seeing the clones we’ve come to know and love in the Clone Wars stay safe and realize the wrongs they do under the empire (like what Cody seems to start doing?)
For the other side, I’ve always empathized with droids and the B1s are no different, and honestly, I’d have loved to see them more (I love them so much); the Separatist cause (like you say) is the more noble of the two main sides in TCW and I would have loved to see a more pro-CIS episode or something that shows them winning, and what that means for their people (are they happy they get to live another day out of the corrupt republic? are they scared they’re fighting a lost cause?)
In season 2 episode 3 of the Bad Batch, I watched it and was exited for everyone, I was cheering for the droids’ coordination and how well they did (and experiencing pure glee every time they showed 1. B1 antics, 2. Droidekas, 3. BX Commandos being bada$s), but I was also hoping Crosshair and Cody would make it out okay
I was tense at the end where Cody talked the CIS governor into a peaceful solution, letting the imperial governor go, but then he immediately orders a betrayal of that peace (and we all know good soldiers follow orders 💀🪦🥀); I couldn’t believe what Crosshair did, but I also expected it in a “no please don’t do what I think you’re going to do” kind of way 😢
Sheev screwed up so many more lives than he ever could’ve pretended to care about, that sick son of a hutt
Remember guys, the truest of bad guys has always been good ol Papa Palpatine
To be honest i was a clone fan but I mostly liked the droids humor 😂
I was glad to see more of the seperatist droids. I've always liked them. But ya I even was rooting for them on that episode because we all know that episode the clones were the bad guys.
At this point, Crosshair's story is far more engaging than the rest of the cast
That is why the droid army was such an interesting choice, because if they had shown clones mowing down humans in the same number of droids they killed, no one would of seen them as the 'good guys'. They definitely still killed people, probably lots of people, but the 'face' was the droids. It also allowed the jedi to pretend to be good, because even with how hard headed they had become they might of thought twice after seeing the first jedi return, covered head to toe in blood and guts of the fallen enemies.
Maybe I misunderstood at the end of episode 3, but they said Cody had defected? I thought Cody was loyal to the empire till the end
@Matthius Köenig okay that's what I was thinking. Thank you for clarifying for me
Old Canon yes both legends and older Disney stuff had him loyal to the end.
But filoni has never respected anything that wasn't in a TV series or movie. Hell he has ignored elements from the movies and his own shows on numerous occasions.
Cody leaving the empire at the end of the episode gave us all the answers we needed. The Republic and the Galactic Empire were governed and structured the same. The only difference was the Jedi. The Jedi held the Republic together and made them the "good guys" because of their moral code. I think Cody realized that without the Jedi, the Republic was no better than the CIS.
It was no better than the CIS even with the Jedi, as the Jedi were rather complacent within Republic injustices that were being done. The only difference was the Empire didn't concern itself with how it carried out its will. The Republic still somewhat did because of the democratic procedure.
i was behind the droids this ep cuz i already knew the clones were going to come out on top and i gotta say this thime the droids did not disapoint
this episode was the only one with a real sad ending and with silent end credits :(
The way the Prequels were designed also places the separatists in viewers minds as Count Dooku was aiming. If I remember correctly, the primary council of the Separatists was made up almost, if not entirely, of bankers & weapons dealers. Additionally, the framing of the Clone Wars show, seemed to be suggest less of a push to re-conquer planets (at least in particularly obvious terms). In many cases, the overt aim seemed to be that the republic were simply helping their own allies to keep from being conquered by the separatists. However, as we know with palpatine and dooku's involvement, both were being pushed from behind the scenes to encourage a major increase of power that the sith could rule from. I think that regardless of what "most" people on either side believed in, there was never a good option available without uncovering the actual conspiracy.
The only thing I'd change with that episode is not having Cody desert, yet, so we could get more crosshair×Cody stories
But wasnt the separatist army always supposed to loose? Dooku was leading the separatists and sidious was leading dooku so the separatists were only there to loose and the clones were there to kill the Jedi. Maybe I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure everyone was being manipulated and we should really feel bad for everyone.
You know what was really cool? At the end of the day, Cody couldn't bring himself to be rooting for the protagonists either.
Bad batch is brilliant. Season one felt a little slow to begin with but the entire show is great.
Ok but this episode is shot compared to the newest episode… it’s just so good…
I like to believe General Kalani is still out there and has a CIS base somewhere with his droids and maybe a small community of Separatist farmers.
Honestly a solid anti-war episode.
I wonder if Cody remembered when he gave the order to shoot his General...his friend...
And crosshair dies in the effort.
He did, he told crosshair that they follow orders as good soldiers and must live with it as well. I believe Cody did really go AWOL because he no longer could be "a good soldier" anymore. He wants to just be an individual left from following orders like a living droid. Hopefully he eventually understands that firing on Kenobi was not his choice because of the chip. Maybe crosshair is sent to find him and kill him, but when he does he tells Cody about the chip and ends up helping him escape the back up troops shadowing crosshair
The clone wars tv show should have included more of the non droid separatist loyalist forces, i really wish we would have gotten a jabiim arc, we were rooting for the clones because the cool seps were relegated to reading material lol
Battle droids are so underrated. They’re always being over shadowed by the clones.
They're also quite underappreciated for their production. It takes years to raise and train a clone at this point, while a Droid goes from raw materials to a battle ready unit in a matter of hours. Monetarily it's cheaper as well. A few kilograms of metal each with the biggest investment being factory tooling. Compare that to years of food, lodging, and training.
You know it's a great video when you really rethink stuff
Reminds me of when I started learning more about my country's history, the parts they gloss over or outright skip in the classroom. And the more I learned the more I kept coming back to the same question: "we're the good guys, right?" And unfortunately it wasn't that we were the good guys, but rather that we weren't the worst guys more often than not, which isn't a whole lot better than being the bad guys. And the Republic was often like that, where they weren't the good guys per se, but rather they were better than the other option, usually. But now the Empire turned up the badness a few notches so now that they are the worst option.
Is it me or did i already see this video a week or two ago? Did it get taken down and reuploaded? Pretty sure i saw this vid right after the Bad Batch episode aired. Thanks for your vids Geetsly's! I love all of them and i've seen at least half by now! They always cheer me up!
I wouldn’t fully say “we should have rooted for the droids”
Palps intentionally hired generals with a scorched earth policy; who would rather kill entire populations than let them fall to enemy hands. Dooku was a smooth talker, and when he could he would rather fully convince a planet that the CIS was the best choice. But if they couldn’t sway someone they would gun down anyone. It’s not the separatists who were evil, but the controlling Sith and the Generals were absolutely bad people. (I wrote this comment at the beginning, I’m sure much of this comes up)
Also, no matter how great CIS generals were, CIS face was always meant to be General Grievous, at least to people in the Republic. This demonization of CIS was so obvious, it was borderline parody. I wonder how come some people haven't noticed it sooner
Not even the generals actually, most CIS generals were great, hence why they had to get them killed off/disgraced in stupid ways. This is shown in pre-Filoni Legends far more overtly, but Filoni has no respect for lore so we have to rely on the less well known and underappreciated canon lore teams.
Wish all the bad batch episodes were of this quality instead of the filler episodes that don't really add anything
Always thought the clones were just awesome, not because they fought for something good, just that they looked good doing it. Droids always looked kind of insidious and acted silly in the Clone Wars.
The reason I hated the empire long before anyone else was because I was a fan of the battle droids and the sith villains that made for good characters. Plus I knew the clones were the storm troopers all along anyways. I mean Palpatine looked a lot like Darth Sideous it was kind of obvious for me and brother especially the square ish double chin. I could tell Palpatine was evil lol.
I haven't watched The Bad Batch, but based on this (and having watched Clone Wars), it seems like the animated series are by far the most nuanced and interesting Star Wars media out there. Which, granted, doesn't say much, but still. This looks genuinely engaging.
*EPISODE 3 IS LITERALLY TOP NOTCH KICK AS AWESOMENESS*
I'm always here for this type of content
It was nice to see a Droid army still undefeated and engaging in battle operations and although thay lost they fought well....
Honestly this has been my favorite episode. I was hoping to see more Separatist holdout conflicts especially the mature political themes that come with them. I feel this Bad Batch season so far has been very light and childish at times with no real buildup of tension or conflict. This episode is what the entire season should be like.
People thought they were meant to be rooting for the clones? It must take a serious misunderstanding of the bad batch show to come to that conclusion