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How Scottie Pippen changed the 1998 Finals | Enhanced pod

  • Published on Feb 19, 2022 veröffentlicht
  • The 1998 Finals are remembered for Michael Jordan's last shot in Chicago, but an incredibly important (and forward facing) tactic shaped the series. In this podcast segment, Mike Prada explains how Phil Jackson used the incomparable Scottie Pippen to completely disrupt the Jazz pick-and-roll in the illegal defense era. Mike's upcoming book, "Spaced Out," is about modern NBA tactics and scheduled for a late 2022 release.
    Full podcast episode: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
    Support at Patreon: www.patreon.com/thinkingbaske...
    Book: www.amazon.com/Thinking-Baske...
    Podcast: player.fm/series/thinking-bas... or at www.stitcher.com/podcast/ben-...
    Website: www.backpicks.com
    Twitter: @elgee35
    Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
    Stats courtesy:
    www.pbpstats.com @bballport
    Footage in this video is owned by the NBA and its partners. It is intended for critique and education.
    Music by csus (instrumental)
  • SportsSports

Comments • 716

  • D. Luvevo
    D. Luvevo Year ago +541

    Things like this aren’t explain in basketball history enough and people just take numbers at face value. A perimeter scorer in the era of illegal defense (Jordan) always had spacing, or something like a 1on1 matchup. And in the modern era, shooting bigs create the spacing that went away when they overruled the illegal defense.
    The in between is the deadball era, the 2000s. Guys like Kobe, AI, TMac get a “shot chucker” label, when really, they were the first and only group of stars to play basketball with zero spacing. The 2 bigman lineups of the 90s, without the rules that forced defense to follow them outside. So its reasons like this that comparing the stats of someone like AI, to a modern guard today will never ever ever measure his real impact. Or even going back and comparing Kobe to Jordan. The numbers dont see that major change.

    • CPGoat #3
      CPGoat #3 Year ago +12

      Not the first and only stars. Go watch some late 60s and 70s games. The spacing was horrendous before the tye 3pt line was added

    • Maverick92
      Maverick92 Year ago +103

      You can adjust for all of that by simply looking at their efficiency relative to league average instead of comparing them 1 to 1. Guys like MJ and LBJ are still head and shoulders above the chuckers you mentioned.

    • Tik Tok Exposed
      Tik Tok Exposed Year ago +15

      Exactly. MJ himself even said he hated playing against zone

    • BludAardvark
      BludAardvark Year ago +11

      @Maverick92 Legends will be legends regardless of what era. Moreso when the playoffs come around and then these guys play at a different level than people trying to over analyze regular season stats for. Especially the ability to make the midrange automatic when jumpers are hard to buy and just making difficult shots overall.

    • D. Luvevo
      D. Luvevo Year ago +41

      @Maverick92 It’s not that simple. Playing with spacing and switching today allows for stars to have these huge gaps from the league average. Superstars today constantly are able to take advantage of mismatches and space in defenses.
      Versus back in 2002, someone like Iverson is dealing with zone, hand checking, and playing with non-shooters and STILL everyone knows he is going to take the shot.
      Someone like Iverson is naturally going to shoot closer to league average, while someone like James Harden will be more efficient.
      Perfect example of relative efficiency just not working:
      Iverson in 2001 had a 0% Relative TS.
      Iverson in 2008 had a 2.7 Relative TS.
      Anybody with eyes can tell you he was a better scorer in 2001. But in 2008, he was in a better team situation with Carmelo, had more spacing, and different rules. You’ll never be able to measure how good those stars are.

  • Tom Martyn
    Tom Martyn Year ago +416

    You need more of these videos. You could literally do this with every playoff series ever

    • Dusk
      Dusk Year ago +3

      The co-stars and role players of the 90s Bulls and 2000s Lakers post seasons were special, they would be a mine for great basketball and analysis. Pippen jumping all over the court and doing It all with a maximum mileage and hampered body for sure my favourite, but Kukoc, Horry, Rodzilla, Harper-old Harper, old Grant etc, great stuff.
      Also the post-Duncan-carry jobs Spurs, mid 2000s dynasty.
      And then the Lakers and Spurs' post season competitions of course made it a whole masterpiece together.

    • Baby Marq
      Baby Marq Year ago

      For real

  • Murwan Osman
    Murwan Osman Year ago +255

    Imo, the illegal defence rules being removed has to be taken heavily into consideration when comparing the players in the mid 2000s to the players of eras before them. When looking at the great scorers of the mid 2000s people are quick to point to their low scoring numbers and low field goal percentage, but once people realize that they might have played in the toughest defensive era in league history (no more illegal defence, and not much spacing) I feel they can rank them better. Understanding how tough the defence was back then will allow people to have greater appreciation and respect for the scoring numbers players like Kobe, ai, tmac, young lebron, young d wade etc. were able to put up.

    • Michael Gieseler
      Michael Gieseler Year ago +65

      Couldn’t agree more. As a younger basketball fan, I find it crazy how the older generation who love the 90s just don’t discuss illegal defense. They act like it had no impact at all. In reality, it completely dictated how teams could scheme defensively. It makes me wonder how well the vast majority of fans who watched MJ really know the game like that since this has just been swept under the rug like it doesn’t matter

    • Zylianari
      Zylianari Year ago +18

      Crazy thing is, older fans would blatantly ignore that. You won't really understand how tough it is to score if the opposing team plays zone defense if you haven't experienced one. This just puts my respect to the scorers of the 2000's on a higher level.

    • BludAardvark
      BludAardvark Year ago +2

      @Michael Gieseler I guess it gets swept under the rug because even the league didn't want to glamorize it. Part of what stays in the public (dare I say casual) consciousness about what they fondly remember about NBA things is if its marketed as such. I mean even the NBA now won't acknowledge your observation about the results when illegal defense was finally lifted and the results it gave.

    • Benji Huynh
      Benji Huynh Year ago +11

      Don't forget Nash too. He was a rare efficient shooter in that era

    • Jamal Walker
      Jamal Walker Year ago +1

      The problem with Ai in this conclusion is that even compared to those guys he shot the heaviest volume along with bad efficacy dude shot like 38% from the field in a season he won the scoring title which is why the title lost its a prestige (since you could chuck and win it) until Tmac and Kobe and made it that both efficiency and volume matter

  • Woody Huber
    Woody Huber Year ago +105

    What's crazy to me is that in the series before against the Pacers Pippen was tasked with point of attack defense and pressuring Mark Jackson. Truly incomparable defensive versatility.

    • Fredrick Mazeli
      Fredrick Mazeli Year ago +10

      just absolutely insane. This is probably the only example along with kawhi and heat lebron of a perimeter wing/forward dpoy as the impact on and off ball especially for scottie is almost but not quite comparable to an elite rim protector.

    • Red Pill Freedom
      Red Pill Freedom 4 months ago +8

      Pippen almost never defended point guards as most of them were too quick for him. Phil could only put him on Jackson because he was the slowest point guard in the league. In fact, Phil almost always based his defensive assignments on position.
      But whenever the smaller, quicker guards like Price, KJ or Hardaway began torching the Bulls, it wasn't Pippen who would switch off onto those guys. It was Jordan.

  • Tu Papa
    Tu Papa Year ago +18

    Scottie defensive strategy was outstanding. He could score, pass, defense, act as a facilitator and an energy so efficiently in his career. He could easily play all the position too.

  • Chris Doherty
    Chris Doherty Year ago +223

    The illegal defence rule was an absolutely insane thing to put in place. Presumably they conceived it as a kind of rule mandated spacing (?).

    • PoliticalGangster
      PoliticalGangster Year ago +60

      They wanted more ISO ball. So when they eliminated that rule, Offences had to adapt by making it more team oriented. Because teams came up with more complex defensive schemes.

    • Thomas Brady
      Thomas Brady Year ago +22

      It still exists in the defensive 3 second violation which I think is just the dumbest rule

    • James Cruz
      James Cruz Year ago +6

      @Thomas Brady Especially when it exists as an artifact of its time yet never gets enforced. May as well remove it altogether.

    • RecapRico
      RecapRico Year ago +16

      @James Cruz it gets called from time to time but only when it's blatant.

  • Ty Johnson
    Ty Johnson Year ago +23

    We need that video of the evolution of defensive rules and how it shaped that end of the game; absolutely.
    Upwards of 90% of the people who watch this will not be able to grasp watching the game with that type of illegal defense.
    I think it’s vital to understand and have a background in this facet of history.

  • jesustenes2
    jesustenes2 Year ago +74

    i would love to see a video on the evolution of these rules, it seems crazy that they ever implemented them so it would be nice to know why they did it

    • Chevon
      Chevon  Year ago +11

      Seconded. I think adding context for why the rules changed would bridge the gap between the older and newer generations of basketball fans. Thinking basketball is the perfect channel to explore how these developments impacted the game we watch today.

    • Barry McCociner
      Barry McCociner Year ago

      Sounds like they ditched it because it was too hard to enforce - at least with the bulls 4-man switching. Not sure if alterior motives, like getting more of the players involved instead of just the PnR guys, were involved.
      It could be similar to the addition of the No Hand Checking rules, which gave guards more freedom of movement and the defenders a tougher job, and coincidentally more offense, which is easily marketable and increases revenue.

    • Smrt fašizmu
      Smrt fašizmu Year ago +2

      Probably because illegal defense made basketball more entertaining for the fans. More 1 v 1, more drives to the basket, more dunks etc. Zone defense and other illegal defense can kill the play if you don't shoot 3s well and in that era NBA players either didn't shoot 3s well, or their coaches didn't let them shoot as many 3s as they do nowadays.

    • Smrt fašizmu
      Smrt fašizmu Year ago +4

      @Barry McCociner Illegal defense rule helped offense and that's why it existed in the first place, to make the game more entertaining to casuals and thus more profitable.

    • Student of Tate
      Student of Tate Year ago +2

      @Barry McCociner The illegal defense rule made it much easier for Jordan than any hand checking could.

  • Chevon
    Chevon  Year ago +26

    I think a video series that adds context for why the rules changed would bridge the gap between the older and newer generations of basketball fans. I know TB already touches on it every now and again but I think showing seperate episodes on Wilt, Shaq, Jordan and Lebron dealing with new defensive strategies would be an awesome watch.
    Thinking basketball is the perfect channel to explore how these developments impacted the game we watch today. Love the videos Ben. Keep up the masterful work.

  • C Gleason
    C Gleason Year ago +14

    The inability of coaches to make changes because of what traditional knowledge states is frustrating. It's especially frustrating as a Jazz fan because I really think if Malone was the 5 and the jazz take a few more 3s per game (jazz were a better shooting team) we win the 98 finals. It shows what non-threats can do to an offense

    • BludAardvark
      BludAardvark Year ago +4

      It is frustrating but it is part of sport. It is very evident in the NFL where it took awhile for the spread offense to be a trend. Then when it became a trend the league copy catted it and saw how sustainable it was. Then it was on to other new efficient trends like 2TE big sets where you can run the ball and use TEs as receivers to win matchups. But your logic thinking the Jazz could win with that adjustment is unfounded. For one the Jazz have no experience playing small so they can't execute that properly. Two the 98 Bulls were already experienced playing small. So you don't get one up on a team playing a game they already have been doing for awhile.

    • C Gleason
      C Gleason Year ago

      @BludAardvark I get your point of copy cat league stuff. I hear what you're saying with the jazz having no small ball experience, but my point is the bulls were probably not the first team to try using a roamer on d against the jazz. It likely didn't workout for the teams that tried it because they didn't have the personnel so the jazz never practiced it. The bulls did have the personnel. We see a similar thing with the jazz now, 5 out teams are hard for the jazz to beat despite near league leading offense because it pulls Gobert from the rim. Hard to beat teams when they have a free lane to the hoop

    • BludAardvark
      BludAardvark Year ago +1

      @C Gleason It doesn't help for the current Jazz team that their roster is constructed poorly. The problem isn't Gobert getting played out. Its that from 1~4 they offer minimal resistance to shot creators at the perimeter. Which leads Gobert at an island at times to try stop the penetration before its too late and if he does get help, congrats as the ball already moved to an open man. Its happened before with Kevin Love's T-Wolves squad. Poor perimeter defense and the inability to switch put Love in a situation to be the rim protector and he's not cut out for that. Because there are teams that don't play tiny 2 man back courts and a big that can hang at the perimeter and are very tenacious defensive squads (Heat, Grizzlies, Bucks, Cavs, T-Wolves are top 10 defense team, Suns arguably are best defense next to the Warriors).
      The Bulls aren't the first but defensively they arguably were the most effective to do it. And as I wrote about stubborn conservatism if that was the case, other franchises would have taken the cue to approach their team building in a way they have. But consider that Pippen as an 'archetype' of a player was still pretty rare and the league still loved to run the offense inside-out.

    • Biostalker420
      Biostalker420 Year ago

      Well, Depends on if your non-threat is Dennis Rodman or Mark Eaton. Worked out for us.

    • C Gleason
      C Gleason Year ago

      @Biostalker420 it worked out because the bulls were ahead of their time. The whole starting lineup was 6'6 or bigger and able to switch. And for all of Rodmans offensive faults, he played bigger than he was and was not an unathletic ostertag or foster. Credit to the bulls for building a roster that was able to take advantage of the jazz weakness. However, the jazz put one more guy out their who can shoot reasonably well for the time, anderson, I think the jazz win

  • Stephen Beall
    Stephen Beall Year ago +6

    Awesome video. The summer of ‘98, after the Bulls won, I watched Game 6 over and over, every night, and I remember all the battle over illegal defenses. Thank you for explaining that more fully.

  • Kevin Avila
    Kevin Avila Year ago +40

    Imagine how much more scary Jordan Pippen Rodman and Harper would be without illegal defense.

    • Dusk
      Dusk Year ago +4

      It would just be plainly unfair.
      Pippen was already cloning himself and being the best help defender already with those limitations on his turf, and the three of Pippen, Rodman and Harper were already turning the 90s Finals competition into blowouts at the rec center.
      It would look ugly.

    • BludAardvark
      BludAardvark Year ago +11

      I mean Pippen was the quintessential mold of that ideal two way wing player that GMs would try find and develop from the 2000s and on. Jordan as amazing as he was as as scorer was king of help defense at the wing. Harper is no slouch defensively as well. Rodman was an amazing 1v1 defender and just boxed out his matchup regardless. All 4 are switchable and they made it super difficult to attack inside regardless. So the lack of a rim protector in some lineups wasn't really felt because of that. It is what teams are trying to do now with the Warriors optimizing that recipe.

    • Dusk
      Dusk Year ago +2

      @BludAardvark It was over when the 80s Bulls organization actually committed the bare minimum to winning and to their newly drafted superstar, and then doubled and tripled all over it.
      Hiring Krause and having Pippen in the draft + Krause fleecing Rodman, Harper and Kukoc was the set of events and historical timings that buried the competition.

      HARDWOOD THOUGHT Year ago +15

      Depends. Defensively they’d be the best ever. Offensively, MJ struggles. He said himself in 03 had he played against the zone his whole career he wouldn’t have been as good. He benefited a lot from being able to face 1 guy until basically he elevated when attacking the rim.
      I could only imagine LBJ being able to go 1 v 1 until his at full steam

    • Chad Zard
      Chad Zard Year ago +9

      @HARDWOOD THOUGHT Are you insane? With the spacing in today's league no one would stop Jordan from getting to the rim. Also there was no defensive 3 second lane violation when Jordan played so the opposing teams center could park his ass under the rim to stop Jordan. That wouldn't happen nowadays. Also let us not forget that nowadays you can't even touch someone when they have the ball.

  • Tiago BC
    Tiago BC Year ago +15

    Sunday just got better. Pippen is just another level of basketball. He has his problems with mouth nowdays but let's not forget he was incredible to watch.

    • Tik Tok Exposed
      Tik Tok Exposed Year ago +1

      He was like Walmart version lebron for his era

    • Dusk
      Dusk Year ago +2

      @Tik Tok Exposed Not Walmart, basically a lite Lebron

    • Antonio-974
      Antonio-974 Year ago +1

      @Tik Tok Exposed More like a smaller Giannis, Pippen wasn’t even close to Lebron in term of skills (3pts, logo 3´s, midrange, fadeaway, passing, vision, anticipation, IQ seeing 2 moves ahead and even his handles).
      Pippen was a smaller Giannis, or Kawhi without the elite shooting.

    • Antonio-974
      Antonio-974 Year ago

      @Dusk Scottie Barnes is also very similar to Pippen, he is just bigger but i think Barnes will be like Pippen when he will reach his prime.

    • Antonio-974
      Antonio-974 Year ago

      @Dusk Also Kevin Garnett, but KG was more skilled in the offensive end, but in term of body type, athleticism and being able to guard multiple positions they are very similar

  • Emmanuel Moses
    Emmanuel Moses Year ago +54

    The illegal defense rule change was the biggest shift in basketball in the last 30 years..That's why it's so funny to see people say that NBA doesn't play any defense today, when guys could literally just go one on one all game back then.. Scottie was a great player back then but I do think his offensive game would be weak weak in comparison to guys like Kawhi, PG-13, Jimmy Butler, Giannis etc who are his size, can play great defense and score much better than he ever could..shows how much better the league is now

    • Dusk
      Dusk Year ago +21

      How can you be an all time help defender and the best perimeter defender ever with those type of limitations on your own turf?
      Especially with being a complete package and workhorse on offense as well?
      Sheesh, he would be in paradise.

    • D S
      D S Year ago +11

      I think Kawhi is pretty much what you would expect to see Scottie be like on defense in today's game

    • TheTemper-King
      TheTemper-King Year ago +11

      @D S yeah but no. Scottie would be better

    • Dusk
      Dusk Year ago +4

      @D S It would be a better Kawhi but, ironically considering Kawhi's motor and attitude since the last half a decade, a Raptors-Clippers age Kawhi with an insane motor and workhorse commitment.
      It's a sight to watch the Bulls era Pippen games with him working on defense, especially when both him and someone like Rodman are on the floor.

    • Student of Tate
      Student of Tate Year ago +17

      Would also be crazy to see LeBron bulldozing through this weak defense of the 90s.

  • Wumbopulous
    Wumbopulous Year ago

    Hey man! I think a video on Anfernee Simons breaking out could be due sometime in the future if he keeps this level of scoring up. Another great video idea could be how the Celtics have started to make things work this season.

  • Mr. Plow
    Mr. Plow Year ago +83

    The outlandishness of how teams abused the illegal defense rules is exactly what pops into my head when someone says "Well, MJ would have been impossible to guard if he had 3pt spacing like today!". He already had that due to the dumb rule.

    • airgordo4
      airgordo4 Year ago +36

      He had the greatest first step in NBA history paired with an era that gave him basically a free run to the rim with late help all game long and no staggered defenses to make him pickup/pass rather than get to his pull-up at will. As an MJ diehard even I can admit that, idk what keeps others from being so biased that they can’t even acknowledge what’s literally on tape.

    • Dusk
      Dusk Year ago +4

      Those people would get the tier of heaven-layup line status for the offense in the 90s had they watched one single game of the era.
      Also, there were matchups that made this a whole other tier of evident, for example some Bulls games when matched up with the Jazz or Hornets, MJ isolated against Hornacek and Bogues.

    • Mr. Plow
      Mr. Plow Year ago +16

      @Chad Zard Did you not watch the video? Look at the spacing MJ gets by virtue of just having 4 guys (most of which arent even great shooters) stand on one side. Jordan was obviously an absurdly good isolation player, but let's not pretend the rules of that era didn't dramatically favor isolation scorers.
      And as for the ol' "They could just grab and hold everyone!", I highly recommend rewatching some of those games in full. Because the handchecking myth is overblown beyond belief.

    • Mr. Plow
      Mr. Plow Year ago +4

      @Chad Zard And since you seem to believe the illegal defense rules let bigs stand under the rim all game, I take it you 100% did not watch the vid nor do you even know how the illegal defense rules of that era worked

  • Gurjas Singh Batra
    Gurjas Singh Batra Year ago +3

    Awesome analysis, guys! Had been waiting for a Pippen video for so long now. Please, please, please do a Pippen career analysis; it'd be so relevant today!

  • Nolan Russell
    Nolan Russell Year ago +4

    Could you do a video/podcast on Anfernee Simons? I feel like his play this season has been criminally overlooked

  • Titus Mark
    Titus Mark Year ago +25

    Finally. Smart people talk about basketball in a smart way about Scottie Pippen.

    • Supercilious100 1
      Supercilious100 1 Year ago +5

      I Agree Bro.. Scottie was Brilliant

    • No Name Will Be Given
      No Name Will Be Given 3 months ago +1

      Hahaha at smart

    • Titus Mark
      Titus Mark 3 months ago

      @No Name Will Be Given hey man, game recognize game, and the subtleties and nuance with which Scottie played can sometimes be overlooked by someone who just watches to see who puts the ball in the basket.

    • No Name Will Be Given
      No Name Will Be Given 3 months ago +1

      @Titus Mark and that also goes for the fools of this channel who you actually think know ball

  • burrito kingdom
    burrito kingdom Year ago +1

    I would love a video of how rule changes affected the game.

  • Taj Rahine
    Taj Rahine 4 months ago +4

    It’s funny they pick the 1998 finals to showcase Scottie. No mention of his injury and how he could barely move in the last two games. I commend Scottie for still playing in those important games. And yes Scottie was a great help defender and very important, but this video exaggerates Scottie’s importance and implies he alone had a much larger impact on the series than he realistically did.

  • Ekpemiro Chiemeziem
    Ekpemiro Chiemeziem Year ago +3

    Need a top 75 analysis series, or top 50 or top 20, just a series on the careers of great players

  • Jason Cho
    Jason Cho Year ago +2

    Could you talk about the Knicks or more specifically Julius Randle’s struggles

  • Brayzen
    Brayzen Year ago

    My question for basketball fans is how modern stars would far with illegal defense implemented?

  • Emmanuel Mondesir
    Emmanuel Mondesir Year ago +13

    Greatest defender without a DPOY

  • SoloPerICommenti
    SoloPerICommenti 2 months ago

    If I rememeber correctly, the Jazz kept a center because they needed a rim protector

  • DX 10
    DX 10 Year ago +3

    I play in the Austrian Basketball League U14 and I am the help specialist of the team and once I was guarding a guy in the corner and he was not very good so I to help in the zone, and the opposings teams coach complained about me and I am not allowed to be in the zone, that was just ridiculous!

  • SaltoDaKid
    SaltoDaKid Year ago +2

    I love the evolution of basketball. Back then biggest star of the team was center, they wanted more big to go one v one, but the league was smart to implement the change so guard and more skill players can dominate which was smart, as Now player are more skillful then past player. (Quote more skill doesn’t mean better so don’t @ me how Bill Russell would destroy Jokic)

  • Onyekachi Adam Esegbue

    Great Video as always Mr. Thinking basketball. Please can you do a greatest peak video on Carmelo Anthony and Allen Iverson, Please?

    No_SOURCES SLE Year ago

    In the baby skyhook game in 87 tommy heinsohn said the same thing about the lakers in terms of everyone on the court being at least 6'7 and can play any position

  • Domino Axelrod
    Domino Axelrod Year ago +4

    Bill Walton nailed it back in 1998

  • MvZ
    MvZ Year ago

    This is so much more interesting than all Star weekend :) The Jazz offense looks way too simple to make it to the NBA finals.

    • Daniel Pauley
      Daniel Pauley Year ago +1

      And yet they did it twice and Stockton is the all time assist leader from running these plays and Malone second in scoring

  • Timothy Strand
    Timothy Strand Year ago +2

    I love this channel. Explains perfectly what I try to explain to so called basketball fans about defense. They never know what I’m talking about so i just stop discussing basketball with them

  • James Freebury
    James Freebury Year ago +2

    cool! I was so unaware of this dynamic as a kid watching this series!

  • TizOnly1
    TizOnly1 Year ago +4

    Love how Walton says Utah has 2 options, then proceeds to state 2 options that aren't real at all in any way haha

  • J.J. Fleming
    J.J. Fleming Year ago +4

    That old rule was so anti defense it's crazy. That wouldn't even fly in today's game.

    • SaltoDaKid
      SaltoDaKid Year ago

      Tbh back then was balance for biggest star of the team was center, they wanted more big to go one v one, but the league was smart to implement the change so guard and more skill players can dominate which was smart as Now player are more skillful then past player. (Quote more skill doesn’t mean better so don’t @ me how Bill Russell would destroy Jokic)

  • J C
    J C Year ago +3

    I’ve seen Jordan being tripled team and chased around the 3 pt line I’ve seen them sagging off their man in wat seemed like a zone it’s like traveling in today’s nba idek if they call it😂🤷🏿‍♂️

  • Moto
    Moto Year ago +5

    Love these enhanced podcast parts

  • Sidharta Buenos
    Sidharta Buenos Year ago +6

    Bill walton casually being futuristic

  • ulovil
    ulovil Year ago +7

    Read in Pippens next book: "I was Draymond before Draymond"

  • Only Facts
    Only Facts 3 months ago

    01:16 they only have to be above the FOUL line because the other player is outside the 3 point line..
    And they can help if the player that got the ball (number 40 S.Anderson) dribble the ball...as soon as he dribbles the ball they can help.

  • Vanil Kharbanda
    Vanil Kharbanda Year ago +4

    This is the REAL Last Dance

  • takecareisaclassic
    takecareisaclassic Year ago +4

    Didn't Doug Collins implement something similar in '88 vs the Pistons? 🤔
    Pippen guarded Laimbeer I believe...

    • Gregory Rowlerson
      Gregory Rowlerson Year ago +3

      Possibly so, although Bill was a bit of an outside shooting threat, when that was rare for a big, so it was probably more for Scottie to defend on the perimeter than to roam.

    • Red Pill Freedom
      Red Pill Freedom 4 months ago

      Laimbeer was not a low post scorer.

  • Jayden White
    Jayden White 2 months ago

    Best explanation of illegal defense I seen.

  • pyrotechnic
    pyrotechnic Year ago

    Enjoyed the video, could you post that clip of Walton you mentioned?

  • Sole Magus
    Sole Magus Year ago +6

    *Zone Defense in the 80's and 90s Inside Hoops thread* : I found a cache of articles from the 80s-90s detailing the extensive use of zone defense (ie: illegal D). There is a common misconception that these schemes (which teams use 3% of the time according to Synergy Sports) had never been used before the rule changes in '01. The truth is, there was what was termed 'outright proliferation' of zone in the league in the late 80s that the NBA rule committee attempted to curb, unsuccessfully. The Lakers, Sonics, Jazz, Knicks, and even the Bulls were teams that were known to employ Zone schemes extensively.
    A major reason for the NBA doing away with the illegal defense call was it being hard for officials to enforce. It was about as consistent as traveling/palming violations in today's game ie: Not called anywhere remotely as much as actual violations occurred.
    Anyway, enough from me. Let History speak for itself: www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?345176-Zone-Defense-in-the-80s-and-90s

    • The Bronze Bomber
      The Bronze Bomber Year ago +2


    • Dynamic
      Dynamic Year ago +1

      I don't see any zone defense all I saw was a bunch of people talking

  • Joshua Schraiber
    Joshua Schraiber Year ago

    This is awesome. Thank God they got rid of those illegal defense rules...

  • Leonide
    Leonide Year ago +29

    And I still hear people saying that Scottie wasn’t a top 5 defender of all time..

    • HandleBucket62
      HandleBucket62 Year ago +7

      He wasn't lol. He wasn't even better than MJ.

    • 6 Dotz
      6 Dotz Year ago +47

      @HandleBucket62 lol yes he was

    • Leonide
      Leonide Year ago +2

      @HandleBucket62 Well it’s a matter of opinions, but I’d say both of them are in the top *10* for sure

    • HandleBucket62
      HandleBucket62 Year ago +5

      @6 Dotz literally all the single defensive coverage stats say otherwise

    • Geordie Jones
      Geordie Jones Year ago +20

      @Leonide Jordan was a great guard against guards but he wasn't better than Payton or Moncrief. There's plenty of wings, forwards and centers who should be above Jordan. I'd take Kawhi's defensive prime over Jordan's easily.

  • Flo'
    Flo' Year ago +4

    Hello Ben, I’m french and I love your channel. I learn a lot every video.
    I want to be a pro basketball player in the future so that help me a lot.

  • Frankenviews *
    Frankenviews * 3 months ago +1

    So if the Jazz had one of these modern day Centers that could shoot from 3, Jordan and the Bulls would have lost the 1998 NBA Finals?

  • Michael Robinson
    Michael Robinson Year ago +19

    Honestly this one rule makes every old head who complains about there being no defense in the league today look so stupid. Sure you can't manhandle offensive players anymore, but you don't see KD out here getting free ISOs and you don't see teams starting 3 scrubs winning anything.

    • Sole Magus
      Sole Magus Year ago +1

      Didn't the Bucks win Last year with Middleton as the only other all star?

    • Michael Robinson
      Michael Robinson Year ago +3

      @Sole Magus We just forgetting Jrue Holiday with 17 and 9 with excellent defense in that finals?

    • Shan Lo
      Shan Lo Year ago +6

      Imagine putting prime Kobe, AI , tmac even LEBRON with that type of defensive rule? they would have tear through the league like butter. early 2000s ball was the most hardest era to score on. No spacing and no illegal defense rule, absolute garbage spacing back then

    • BludAardvark
      BludAardvark Year ago +1

      @Sole Magus Jrue's decision making on ball and being the 2nd best defensive player next to Giannis was key to the Bucks making a push. Middleton is nice but he's nowhere the iso defender Jrue is and in the playoffs, you will get those situations and he will do his job. It also allowed Middleton to do his thing as the best 3rd option for the Bucks.

    • The Bronze Bomber
      The Bronze Bomber Year ago +1

      @Shan Lo Tracy Mcgrady, Kobe and Iverson played in the 90’s lol

  • Leopoldo Santos
    Leopoldo Santos Year ago +2

    Antoine carr must be one of the most misused players in the NBA , he had handles a good jumper and a decent post game

    • ryanr20091
      ryanr20091 Year ago

      he would be useless in todays era

  • Kodreanu23
    Kodreanu23 Year ago

    This was fantastic. Thanks!

  • soulg77
    soulg77 Year ago +1

    Was about to go searching for that Bill Walton clip, thanks for including it at the end.

  • Radu Serban
    Radu Serban Year ago +4

    I recently had a debate with somebody cause I said the 2017 Warriors would sweep the Jazz. I’m even more convinced right now lmao

    • Dusk
      Dusk Year ago +1

      Sweep? Man the 2017 Warriors would blow them out every single game, repeating x4 the easy Game 3 historical blow out.
      Those teams and competitions don't compare, unless Malone and Stockton actually get the help from the all time Jazz pool.

    • BludAardvark
      BludAardvark Year ago +1

      That is unfair to begin with. As a defensive unit the Jazz was built to take on who they can in the 90s. But they also played traditional lineups against others teams who did and theirs just matched up best. The Jazz's bigs are gonna get ran out and Sloane may not even go small out of sheer conservative stuborness.

    • Student of Tate
      Student of Tate Year ago

      Time travel matchups is never a good debate, because today's worst team would destroy the best team in the 80s or 90s. It doesn't mean they weren't great at their time, with what they have at their disposal.

    • Gumball Waterson
      Gumball Waterson Year ago +4

      @Student of Tate Today's worst team would destroy the best team in the 80s or 90s? Huh? The best teams of the 80s or 90s may not be as dominant under today's rules simply because they were built for their eras, but you're beyond delusional if you think Magic's Lakers or any other top 5 80s team is getting waxed by the '22 Rockets under any set of rules. I mean, I get it, you just started watching basketball recently, so you're really excited about the league, but come on, why make such a bad take?

    • The Bronze Bomber
      The Bronze Bomber Year ago +3

      The 2018 Warriors almost lost to CP3/Harden +role players lol

  • Abdul Khan
    Abdul Khan Year ago

    Let's be real none of us expected our man Elgee to look like that lol

  • Syed Bilal
    Syed Bilal Year ago +1

    Damn. Bill Walton sounds so natural as a broadcaster

  • Jaypee Salazar
    Jaypee Salazar Year ago

    Its ridiculous that there was an illegal defense rule.

  • solcreate
    solcreate Year ago +3

    The Bulls played zone in the 1998 Finals. The officials did nothing about it, which is rather typical for this league.
    Highly questionable result overall when considering officiating, including some very bad calls in both Game 4 and Game 6 on a possession basis.
    But hey, no one wanted Utah to win, from the casual fans to the NBA head office. This is a business first and foremost.

    • Geordie Jones
      Geordie Jones Year ago +5

      I hate how fans act like Lebron has the crazy advantage Jordan had. The league sucked him and Magic off more than any other players ever. People didnt wanna see Russell, Wilt, or Kareem win. But they loved Bird, Magic and especially Jordan. Then Shaq and Kobe definitely got more than a little help for their 3peat. And lately Steph can do no wrong. I got more respect for Lebron and Duncan for winning a lot despite other people being more praised. Russell is my favorite player ever because he won despite the world being against him. Fans gave his white teammates all the credit even though he got the MVPs and the players followed him. That dude won for no one else except the guys he played with and walked away with 14 first place trophies. Lebron and Jordan are definitely the most skilled/elite players ever but Bill Russell would find a way to beat them both.

    • No Name Will Be Given
      No Name Will Be Given 3 months ago

      @Geordie Jones yawn troll

  • BrotherO4
    BrotherO4 Year ago +1

    the moment he said "illegal Defense" you already know. he knows his fing basketball.

  • Marc Antony
    Marc Antony Year ago

    Best Enhanced pod yet!

  • iceeeyy
    iceeeyy Year ago +2

    The best basketball channel.

  • Keep it private
    Keep it private Year ago

    more of this please

  • Chris Sullivan
    Chris Sullivan Year ago

    I love these snippets so much.

  • Tariq Topey
    Tariq Topey Year ago

    When Ben Taylor drops a video, I stop what I'm doing and watch!

  • piot_rek
    piot_rek Year ago

    Scottie must to love todays bulls

  • BludAardvark
    BludAardvark Year ago

    The way I took the context form this video is a little more diplomatic than the degeneracy that may have entailed in the comments. Because of Pippen and the Bulls lineup, they were the exception to the rule that did not allow the Jazz to play the way they would with their 2-man PNR game along with using illegal defense to punish traditional lineups. Yes illegal defense punished every team but to have an answer with exceptional talents on defense and playing exceptionally different for that time (more switching than other teams who can play small and the Bulls could run it however they wanted to), they made other teams who used the rule as a crutch look trivial in many cases.

  • Only Facts
    Only Facts 3 months ago

    MAGIC was double a lot , illegal defence only happens if the defence wants it ( example the 3 second rule..you can put a player there then steps outside and gets back to the paint) this illegal defence was the same.....you could always double the guy with the ball if he was dribbling...as soon as he passed to MALONE and MALONE dribbled the ball they could just switch, the problem is that would leave someone alone for a long time...
    THIS illegal defence was only bad against POST UP PLAYERS...thats why SHAQ made the NBA changed the rules.

  • jackwell 90
    jackwell 90 Year ago +2

    You shoukd do a podcast on the illage defense rule

  • Maxwell Drakeford

    Can we see a video on Dirk or Charles barkley

  • Cruz
    Cruz 7 days ago

    Illegal defense equals you couldnt play zone for the longest that was for teams to score more but it made into a bunch of passing lol due to them cats wasnt iso like they are now but now they allowedd zone back into the game ..but all these half court shots taking spreads the defense just a tad😂😂

  • Aloha Tigers
    Aloha Tigers Year ago +1

    Now, I think it’s safe to say we can demand to get rid of defensive 3 sec violation.
    Imagine this: you’re sitting in the paint, however, there’s a shooter and the distance between you and shooter is larger.
    So, I think it makes sense to get rid of it, it means that there’s going to be more 3pt opportunities and because every team plays zone, and a center camping in the paint, 1) you can’t attack the paint, so, to beat defense zone, is to create a 3pt opportunity and 2) there’s a chance this center is leaving a wide open player and the time it takes to close that distance, it’s too late.
    And I have 2 more proposals:
    1) the 8 second violation. Get rid it. It pisses me off to see players just roll it and since they are not touching it, the possession doesn’t start. How about tweaking the rule so that regardless if you touch it or not, you have 8 seconds.
    2) in soccer, there’s a “play on” rule where if you intentionally foul or a common foul, the ref signals a “play on”, to give the team a 2nd chance, to keep playing. How about implementing this rule in the NBA so that if there’s an intentional foul, you get to keep playing and score.
    I believe this is good in the late 4th qtr situations where a team desperately needs a foul so if the player gets foul intentionally, the ref can signal “play on”, and then they can keep going and move the ball to score and create a bigger lead or waste time. I believe this is a great rule.

  • N1ZZ1 11
    N1ZZ1 11 Year ago +3

    Love the content ben

  • Goku Baller
    Goku Baller Year ago +1

    The only fwd in history and 1 of only 3 players to get 200+ started and 100+ blks in a season. Can guard all 5 positions, so yeah I'd put him #1

    • Goku Baller
      Goku Baller 3 months ago

      @No Name Will Be Given actually he can. There's a video where pippen had to defend Patrick ewing and was able to lock him down.

    • No Name Will Be Given
      No Name Will Be Given 3 months ago +1

      @Goku Baller no there's not you troll

    • No Name Will Be Given
      No Name Will Be Given 3 months ago

      @Goku Baller no there isnt little boy

  • Dry Iyce
    Dry Iyce 3 months ago

    Bill Walton was ahead of his time

  • Tomoya Whetstone
    Tomoya Whetstone Year ago

    And they say defence was better back then when literally you could only guard your own man

  • Papi chulo
    Papi chulo  Year ago

    Dope video. Keep exposing the dead ball 90s expansion era.

    • Ken S.
      Ken S. Year ago +4

      90s still a more exciting Era compared to the 2010s (LeFraud Era) that saw ratings plummet.
      Nobody wants to see each team jacking 40+ 3s

    • Papi chulo
      Papi chulo  Year ago +1

      @Ken S. nah tell your gen z cult that.

  • 2dmartin
    2dmartin Year ago

    This is one thing people don’t talk about that was DRASTICALLY WAS IN MJ’S FAVOR. ILLEGAL DEFENSE MADE MJ’s LIFE EASIER ON OFFENSE NOT HARDER.

    RAY’S REALM Year ago

    *Where does Scottie rank amongst the ‘most skilled’ basketball players of all time?*

    • Tony Johnson
      Tony Johnson Year ago +1

      Put it like that, one former coach aaid he so talented with the dribble the only one can stop him was himself. Rodman one of greatest defender ever said he can get his anywhere he wanted. Then look at his footwork in the post. Then throw in the watch 1-5 on the court because of his length, speed, and constantly thinking were the ball could go next. Then answer that question yourself.

  • When Is dinner
    When Is dinner Year ago

    He changed the finals by being injured and not as good as in the past...

  • Jusi Alayco
    Jusi Alayco Year ago

    The clip at the end was kinda bone chillin and mad awesome :D

  • Anna R
    Anna R Year ago +8

    Scottie never really got his flowers like how Jordan did...hope Pippen is at a better place now..his book was a cry for recognition

  • roi PH
    roi PH Year ago

    WTF. Kerr taught Draymond what Pippen was doing.

  • Ted Lessor
    Ted Lessor Year ago

    They made Mj the god of basketball so people wouldn’t even care about this video lol. Great video tho I learned something .

  • MANKIND1979
    MANKIND1979 Year ago

    I think they should bring illegal defense back to ncaa hoops. To much zone. The league can’t develop its stars.

  • Mark Betonio
    Mark Betonio Year ago

    Another podcast bite... I like this...

  • Szilárd Oberritter
    Szilárd Oberritter Year ago +1

    In the illegal defense era it was much easier to spam your best players scoring ability which made it easier to score back then than today.
    Every Playoff number from lets say “Jordan era” compared to “Lebron era” says the same thing. In Lebron’s era we had lower DRTG and lower FG% with less 2PT attempts and lower 2PT FG% than back then.
    Defense was never better with illegal defense rules standing

    • Szilárd Oberritter
      Szilárd Oberritter Year ago

      @The Bronze Bomber which is natural since 3 pt shots are worth one point more and mid range shots are more ineffective. The game got pushed outside since they can stop you nowadays from shooting at the rim more often with illegal defensive rules eliminated and more advanced coverages like hybrid zones are allowed. Only thing is that the transition from mid range to 3 pt outweighs the amount of shots at the rim this resulting in higher TS% which is a wierd stat since it acts like every 2 3 pointers equals an extra shot attempt theoretically bc its worth an extra 2 points after every second 3 pointers but the players never took that shot. It’s simpler to see how many shots did they take and make and where compared to taking possible points per attempts into account. 2PT% is also lower today so my point still stands along with all the others

    • The Bronze Bomber
      The Bronze Bomber Year ago

      @Szilárd Oberritter I know field goal% is lower which is natural when you take more 3’s but I’m not sure about 2pt%. Especially with the amount of long mid range jumpers players took back then.

    • The Bronze Bomber
      The Bronze Bomber Year ago

      @Szilárd Oberritter The old illegal defense was replaced with the modern defensive 3. Only in FIBA can you play unrestricted zones.

    • Szilárd Oberritter
      Szilárd Oberritter Year ago

      there is truth in what you say for both comments. But nowadays players usually just step out or touch an offensive player to be there longer. But that’s not my point tbh. What I mean is that illegal defense rules with the right positioning allowed players to play more isolated at the rim. That’s why it’s called the isolation or 1 on 1 era. I can’t attach pictures to show the examples but unless they doubled teamed a player who is posting up and isolation the help defense usually never arrived in time and for that reason there were many many post ups and shots at the rim. It wasn’t necessary to spread the floor that much thus players couldn’t shoot as well from the outside . You couldn’t use pre rotation to the strong side and zone on the weak side to intimidate players into more outside shots or forcing them to pass up as often. These type of box-man , hybrid zone coverages pushed the game outside. That’s the reason for example why player plays one on one more on the perimeter nowadays as often because if you post up teams can put multiple defenders close enough to the paint and still have enough coverage to swarm and recover on the weak side . If you play 1 on 1 further outside the defense has to cover bigger ground which they weren’t forced to do with illegal defensive rules and that’s why players weren’t that good 3 point shooters back then to spread the defense.
      Unfortunately I can’t show pictures but these defenses can also force the ball more out of a superstars hands in high pressure situations.
      Teams don’t play this type of defense or be as active nowhere close as often in the regular season as in the Playoffs and that trend is going upwards nowadays.
      Stats I pulled up are just trying to prove what I tried to explain here and they align well with the idea. They wanted to speed up the game, motivate players to learn more skills and get the ball moving more while forcing the ball out of an isolating player.

  • Rayvaughn Hogges
    Rayvaughn Hogges 2 months ago +2

    should illegal defense & hand checking be brought back?

  • David Hall Jr
    David Hall Jr Year ago +3

    These are good observations however I think you are mistaking a reaction to Scottie Pippen‘s lack of mobility because of his back problems as opposed to his particular genius in this case. No doubt, Scotty was a great defensive player, but in that series as with much of a 1998 season, he was not very much help. He was able to switch off because the big man that he would end up guarding were stiff and not mobile so his long wingspan would compensate for his lack of quickness while guarding them. So it may look like a genius move, but it was necessity to keep him on the court so that he could be at least a decoy while Michael Jordan had to figure out how to win games with a team that was less than 100%.

    • Gregory Rowlerson
      Gregory Rowlerson Year ago +1

      No, only at the end of that Finals series. And Scottie's mobility was so poor that Phil had him guard Mark Jackson in the Eastern Conference Finals!

  • Zzz Vain
    Zzz Vain Year ago +3


    • David Schmidt
      David Schmidt Year ago +1

      What a bunch of crap lol. Saw that "true reason" in 1994 and 1995

    • Dusk
      Dusk Year ago

      @David Schmidt It's ironic that MJ gets the credit when he wins solely with Pippen and loses with and without Pippen but Scottie doing it without Michael is held to scrutiny.

    • Hoang Nam Nguyen
      Hoang Nam Nguyen Year ago +1

      @Dusk to be frank though both sides of this argument is overblown, Jordan can't win 6 rings without Pippen but he more then likely win 3-4 rings if he did what Lebron did and form superteams. Pippen definitely can win without Jordan but he is by all mean not the first option the 1994-1995 season has shown that, his lack of half court offense really hold what otherwise is a true regularly mvp contender

    • Dusk
      Dusk Year ago

      @Hoang Nam Nguyen The most ironic thing out of all of this is that Lebron too would've gotten his 6 rings to Cleveland had he faced that type of competition with the type of front office and tools his alternative all-time FO and ownership would've gave him.
      No need to go with the Heat if the Celtics Big 4 doesn't appear the year he took over the East in 2007.

    • Hoang Nam Nguyen
      Hoang Nam Nguyen Year ago

      @Dusk You can make that argument for pretty much every players ever, maybe aside from the few guys who had it lucky coming in the league

  • J'sDesireForAKittycatPersists

    Jordan is Jordan, obviously, but Pippen was always my favorite Bull (as a non-Bulls fan).

  • J C
    J C Year ago +4

    Karl Malone this series averaged 25,11,4 on 50% idk how this is a bad series 🤷🏿‍♂️

    • Daniel Pauley
      Daniel Pauley Year ago +3

      He was averaging 30 points against the lakers the series before and had some off games. I’m a Utah supporter too so was hard to watch the jazz lose game 6 in 1998 as they were ripped off. Howard Eisley hit a three that was taken away and Ron Harper hit a two which should have been disallowed

    • J C
      J C Year ago +1

      @Daniel Pauley I remember that Lakers team had 4 all stars shaq Kobe Eddie and nick. And ppl try to act like they were “old” but we know that they were serious contenders

    • Daniel Pauley
      Daniel Pauley Year ago +1

      @J C and the jazz sweeper them.

    • No Name Will Be Given
      No Name Will Be Given 3 months ago

      @Daniel Pauley and stop acting like two shots that wasnt late in the game was gonna decide the outcome

  • Steve
    Steve Year ago +6

    first 30sec already explained the myth of old school D is better......it maybe ''softer D'' now, but actually harder D now, if people really think about it. Hand check is such a small part of a whole defense system...some so called old school fans act like this single rule made old players so much better than nowadays players. such a BS

    • MWTG
      MWTG Year ago +2

      Agreed , and there is still handchecking in the nba right now.

    • ryanr20091
      ryanr20091 Year ago +3

      yes because team defense will always trump isolation you were limited then and even guys like greg ostertag would not even be in todays league. Even guys like antoine carr would be useless . the pick and roll game between john and Malone would be common nothing special since the entire league knows how to guard it as a team. the jazz was one dimensional even then today they would be easier to beat malone would have even less scoring opportunities

    • back2back
      back2back Year ago +2

      Old school fans? The NBA itself has stated it's easier to score in today's game, and that the rules changes overall were made with the intent to make it easier to score in today's game.
      Stu Jackson, former Vice President of Basketball Operations, in 2009: "With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. This has provided more time for shooters to ready themselves for quality shots. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim.. The benefits of an open game are not limited to just perimeter players. An open game can benefit a post player as well. Remember, if the players are spaced wider and using more of the court, then defenses have to play those players closely because they're good shooters. The style actually serves to open up the middle of the floor. If a team has an effective post player, he would have more room to operate in the post." Adam Silver in 2018 speaking about the boost in Offensive scoring and the cutting down of the amount of contact defensive players can make: "We had a call with our competition committee last week, which is made up of coaches, GMs, owners, players, officials to discuss just that, and the consensus, or the strong feeling from the group was that the rule changes were happening as we intended." So basically, the NBA itself has stated that the rules changes overall were to favor the offense by opening up the game for them and consequently restrict the defense. It's rather telling that teams and players back in the day would be worried about the kind of defensive play that would be allowed, whereas these days teams and players get worried about the kind of defensive play NOT being allowed, hence why you've got players like Draymond Green complaining about defense not being allowed and coaches like Popovich saying "it's a lot more difficult to play and pioneer defense right now."
      The NBA knew implementing zone wouldn’t make up for the removal of hand checking and overall physical defense, because as already stated, the NBA itself said that their overall intention with the rules changes was to make things easier for the offense, which consequently means that overall, they restricted the defense.The NBA itself has also stated the rules changes have changed the game the way they wanted, as intended by they themselves. Kobe Bryant referred to zone defense as a "crutch defense." Great defensive players even in the current era like Draymond Green have said you can't really play defense in the league today. Great defensive coaches like Popovich have echoed similar sentiments. The rules overall restricts the defense, regardless of zone defense. Jordan had to face zone anyway though:
      "Last season, Jordan had to overcome the harassment of zone traps and double and triple-teaming"
      - New York Times, 1987
      "They`ve used zone traps; they`ve put two, three and sometimes four defenders on him"
      - Chicago Tribune, 1987
      ''My concerns are that more teams are going to the trap, 'which ultimately ends in a zone defense for a period of seconds, which makes it extremely difficult to attack in the 15 or so odd seconds after it crosses the half-court line to set up the offense... After our game Tuesday night against Miami, I watched the Laker and Chicago game on satellite TV. I noticed that Chicago has adopted a half-court that L.A. has been using so successfully and it ended up in a zone defense for a period of seconds, which forced L.A. to take a quick shot without the ability to set up their half-court offense.'' 'When you play New York, you have to prepare yourself because they have so many different traps.''
      - Chuck Daly, 1988
      The assumption that zone defenses are not played in the NBA is false. The rules allow for full-court zone pressure, and because defenses are permitted to aggressively double-team the ballanywhere on the floor, teams play de facto zones in the frontcourt,too. To one degree or another, every NBA team uses some type of zone.
      - Sports Illustrated, 1990
      "Our teams are zoning now. Rule or no rule. We're not allowed to use the word `zone' but it's a zone.''
      - Dick Motta, 1996
      "They (Seattle Supersonics) play a zone defense. They shove you in a corner and they trap you at half-court and they run off and double-team while you're dribbling the ball. It's a legal zone but they have a heck of a good defense."
      - Phil Jackson, 1996
      "I don't think Seattle is going to put Gary Payton on Michael Jordan. We like that matchup because he'll get in foul trouble. In a zone defense like Seattle plays, they're just going to send him some way where they can double-team him all the time." - Phil Jackson, 1996
      Utah plays the best zone in basketball. They play a 2-1-2 with five guys with a foot in the paint 90 percent of the time." - George Karl, 1996
      "A lot of good defensive teams are playing nothing more than a disguised zone. The Bulls, the Sonics, a couple of other teams do it."
      - Antoine Carr said the chief problem with the illegal-defense rule is that coaches know refs won't call it every time they see it. Oh and btw, Jordan at near 40 years old had to play against the zone in 2001-2002, and he was still killing it prior to tearing his meniscus. In the 46 games that Jordan played in 01/02 before the injury, he averaged 25.1 PPG. In his last 20 games up to the injury he averaged. 27.5 PPG. In his last 10 games up to the injury he averaged 29.7. Rip Hamilton also missed 5 weeks, but when the two played prior to Jordan's injury, they were 15-1. Lastly, if Jimmy Butler, who's inferior to Jordan in every way and is basically a poor poor man's Michael Jordan, if can do what he does and what he did in the 2020 Finals, there's no doubt Jordan would absolutely dominate.

    • Ben W
      Ben W Year ago

      Yup. Advanced checkers is still a lesser game than mediocre chess.

    • mrmacross
      mrmacross Year ago +2

      I largely agree with this. Defense now is far more sophisticated. It's just that back in the 80s and early 90s, you could get away with a lack of sophistication with stuff like just tackle a guy in mid-air and let him think twice before trying to enter the lane again, or get really physical with the hand checking so perimeter guys can't get running starts. The rules changes are a big part of the reason why all the top scorers today are perimeter guys whereas up through the 90s it was mostly Cs and PFs.

  • Tamás Rab
    Tamás Rab Year ago +1

    to this day it is still very odd that the NBA did not change any major rule during the 90's, especially the illegal defense rule...in my understanding, Stern did not want to risk the success of his golden boy and his team, it's getting more clear year by year....also as you can see it in this video, that Jazz team played awful in the 98 Finals....they were a good regular season team, but the whole team massively underperformed, Malone played bad, Stockton was flat out awful....and this team is considered the greatest team that Jordan ever defeated in the Finals....the competition in that era for the Bulls was just non-existent...I would have loved to see Jordan compete with the Showtime Lakers in the Finals in 87-88, or the the Olajuwon Rockets in 94-95 or Duncan Spurs in 99, those would have shown me real evidence to his undisputed GOAT case....with those 5 teams he faced in his 6 finals, they were very good teams, but non of them came even close to be all-time great teams....in other words, he and the Bulls defeated good teams, that's why they were favorites 6 out of 6 times....Lebron defeated and lost to all-time great teams, the only black mark is his 2011 Dallas team that was equivalent to any of Jordan's Finals opponent

    • solcreate
      solcreate Year ago +2

      Your post is very unfair to Karl Malone when we consider just how low-scoring the series between Utah and Chicago were: over two Finals, only Utah -- in 1997's Game 3 -- managed to score over 100 points in any contest.
      This matters, as this talk about Malone's play comes in the context of very, very low scoring series. Series that Utah came within inches of winning; in 1997 the Jazz were outscored by 4 points total, in a series where 4 out of 6 games came down to the last possession, and in 1998 5 out of 6 games came down to the last possession.
      Considering how close those series were, I find the description of Utah as "non-existent competition" to be an ahistorical assertion: Chicago averaged 0.6 points more than Utah in 1997's Finals, and Utah could have won that series in five games if one or two more bounces had gone their way.
      In that same context, Utah averaged 87.2 points per game in 1997 and just 80.2 in 1998. I don't see the disgrace in that, as this was a much more harsh, defensive era (and the Bulls definitely used illegal spacing in 1998's Finals to harm Utah's offense).
      With all that as backdrop, Malone's 23.8 PPG -- in a 1997 Finals where he was playing with a ripped up shooting hand that had been robbing him of shooting touch for weeks -- and 25 PPG in 1998's Finals are not bad statistical lines.
      To put Malone's scoring load in context, Barkley only scored 2.3 more points per game in 1993's Finals despite playing on a team that was averaging 26.7 more points per game than the Jazz did in that 1998 Finals.
      What that means is that Malone was actually responsible for 31.2% of direct scoring load overall in the 1998 Finals, compared to Barkley who was at 25.5% of the Suns' overall scoring load in the 1993 Finals.
      That's a notable difference in Malone's favor, and shows that even under immense pressure he could be an elite scoring presence.
      Hell, Malone's derided 1997 Finals scoring logs also show that he carried a heavier burden than Barkley in 1993 when looking at relative scoring %: Malone was at 27.2% of Utah's total offense in that series compared to Barkley's aforementioned 25.5% in the 1993 series.
      It's also notable that Barkley had far more surrounding scoring help than Malone did when comparing their Finals appearances. Barkley had 3 different players score from between 15.8 and 17.2 PPG in that Finals.
      Malone? Had not one player in either the 1997 or 1998nFinals score as much as 15.8 points per game as supplementary scoring.
      In fact, in 1998's Finals, Utah's second leading scorers was Hornacek...with 10.7 points per game. All other Utah players averaged less than double-digit scoring in that series.
      What this means, too, is that it was much easier for Chicago to focus on and load up on Malone in the post slots compared to someone like Barkley, yet Malone still showed the ability to carry elite scoring load under such pressure.
      Yet Barkley is praised by casual fans while Malone is excoriated. The whole thing strikes me as incredibly unfair, dishonest and ultimately innumerate.
      Your mileage may vary.

    • solcreate
      solcreate Year ago

      All that said, I would agree with you on one thing: since players like Karl Malone and teams like the 1997 and 1998 Utah Jazz are treated like historical jokes and outright trash by both average fans and the sports media, at some point there has to be a logical reconsideration of Jordan's place in history.
      Utah came very, very close to defeating Chicago in two straight Finals, and have a very strong argument as the toughest opponent during the Bulls Dynasty. If Utah is such a poor team in a greater historical context, what does this say about Jordan?
      Logically it says that he benefited from a weak era, and is massively overrated through that domination of weak competition.
      This is compounded by a sports media that regularly ranks Malone quite low on all-time lists. The same with guys like Barkley and Stockton.
      Only Malone, as a true contemporary of Jordan, consistently comes close on all-time lists when ranked next to guys like Durant and Curry.
      The problem with this is these are just two big names that are part of LeBron's record and legacy. Add in a guy like Duncan, who is automatically treated as royalty compared to "losers" like Barkley or Malone, and massive questions have to be asked about how Jordan always ranks as the best player ever.
      The logic gap in the way the media treats star players from Jordan's era -- as historically second or third-rate figures -- as opposed to Jordan himself (who is treated like a holy figure above all others, including today's players) is completely incoherent and mendacious.
      At some point in time, logic will have to reign: if the top stars like Karl Malone during Jordan's reign are seen as historically pathetic, automatically ranking lower than guys like Curry, Durant and (likely soon) Giannis, then there's no way that Jordan should be treated like the unquestionable GOAT.

    • rafikz77
      rafikz77 Year ago +2

      Yep Jordan had special treatment

    • The Bronze Bomber
      The Bronze Bomber Year ago

      @rafikz77 You forgot about the semi circle in the paint lol

    • No Name Will Be Given
      No Name Will Be Given 3 months ago

      Your understanding is just saltiness and bitterness at Jordan, Rab you troll

  • Fire Eagle
    Fire Eagle Year ago

    I wonder why the NBA had this illegal defense rule ? like that doesn't make sense

  • Kizer Sosei
    Kizer Sosei Year ago +3

    This is excellent, the 'behind-the-scenes' of it all. This is great for arm-chair coaches that'd swear on everything that somehow MJ "carried" Pippen for the 6 rings. Despite the FACT that Pip' set up the offense & ANCHORED the Def. Even when they handed MJ the Finals MVP trophy, MJ said, "Pippen you're MY MVP",.. "I'll take the trophy, he (Pip) might get the car." ...

  • Shing
    Shing Year ago +1

    People keep saying players in the past are better because they perform under "better defence".
    But seeing how teams were able to create spacing by just positioning whatever players (regardless of their shooting ability) on the right place on the floor, and the difficulty for defenders to switch and help just show that there were also rule-induced advantage for offensive players back in the days.
    More physical =/= better defence
    People need to stop over-hyping the old timers' defence.

  • William Keyes
    William Keyes Year ago

    Wow great explanation

  • Tik Tok Exposed
    Tik Tok Exposed Year ago +9

    Just more proof Michael Jordan didn't win this finals by himself. He *needed* Pippen to win

    • Zzz Vain
      Zzz Vain Year ago +2


    • Tahja
      Tahja Year ago +4

      @Zzz Vain all caps? someone got u in ur feelings.

    • David Schmidt
      David Schmidt Year ago +1

      Eveyone needs someone to win. No one can win by themselves

    • Zzz Vain
      Zzz Vain Year ago


  • Injustice Anywhere Threatens Justice Everywhere

    lmao typical Bill Walton, just casually talking about the future.