When did Gandalf know Bilbo had The One Ring? | Tolkien Explained

What other questions about Middle-earth would you like to see me tackle on the channel? (And yeah, I couldn't resist making this thumbnail inspired by the Riddler meme. haha)

Bilbo's decision to leave the One Ring to Frodo sets him apart as a truly unique character in the story. No one else in the tale has the foresight and selflessness to willingly give up the ring, knowing the immense power and temptation it holds. He is truly a one-of-a-kind hero.

Christopher Lee and Ian McKellen are two of the greatest casting decisions in cinematic history.

My favorite scene in the film trilogy is when Gandalf is talking with Frodo in Moria.
"Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be so quick to deal out death and judgement. Even the very Wise cannot see all ends."

So let me get this straight. In the Hobbit, Tolkien wrote a magic ring into the story as a way for Bilbo to get out of a tough spot. Then he went back, took that ring, and made it the central plot point of the entire saga? That's cool.

I always thought Bilbo never gets enough credit for being the only being in this story able to give up the one ring on his own especially with how long and how much he had used it.

You said that it wasn't mentioned in the films that there were lesser rings made, but Gandalf has a line like "There are many magic rings in this world, Bilbo Baggins, and none of them should be used lightly." I always assumed that to mean rings that weren't one of the great rings.

Always thought it was funny in the movies that if Gandalf had been wrong about the ring he would have given Frodo a horrible burn on his palm when he took it straight out of the fire.

I love the way it's shot throughout the film because it looks like Gandalf just casually hopped on horseback and popped over to Minas Tirith from the shire in like, a few days or so but coming from the books, we known it's been nearly 20 years since he had the suspicion that Bilbo's ring was sus. And in the meantime did a bunch of things within that timeframe to confirm his suspicions.

For the movie at least, I knew that Gandalf knew when he told Bilbo, "You haven't aged a day." I'll never forget the look on his face and how all of the joy just seemed to drain from it. He then quickly laughed it off, but his mind was set. He only needed to get the proof to confirm what he knew.

Short answer: Gandalf assumed Bilbo had a lesser ring until the events of LOTR.
But wow! That is a lot of context you packed into one video, great job!

interesting to note that frodo couldn’t bring himself to even toss the ring into his little fireplace (foreshadowing?) i think the first time he actually uses it is in bombadil’s house, and he immediately feels silly since tom can see him anyway. it’s a much tougher ownership trial for frodo. from the moment gandalf tells him he’s been sitting on the One Ring for 17 years, he knows he’s in immediate danger, to himself and others. and everytime those nazgul are anywhere nearby, the ring wakes up and starts wearing him down. as faramir says about boromir, “it was too sore a trial.” bilbo, without knowing just what this thing is capable of, confides in gandalf that it would be a relief to not be worrying about it all the time, since he either keeps it with him or safely hidden in bag end, but he constantly has to check and see if it’s still there. so when gandalf finally convinces him to leave it behind he seems almost grateful for the extra nudge. but i think tolkien makes it clear that of all the peoples of middle earth, hobbits were the best possible guardians of the ring, because they’re not much interested in gold/riches/treasure/flashy stuff. they value a good mug of beer, a nice fire, a hearty meal (several times a day), a merry song, and friends. the simple, uncomplicated pleasures. a dying thorin says to bilbo what a nicer world it would be if everyone was like the shirefolk.

I can't imagine how dumb Gandalf must have felt when he discovered the truth. I would punch myself mentally for not realizing that the most dangerous thing in the entire world has been under my nose all this time.

I think that just as the ring had a negative affect on whoever possessed it, that it could influence someone like Gandalf to pay less attention to it. The ring wants to be found and get back to it's master, but it doesn't want the wrong person to find it. Gandalf or Galadriel would have become rivals to Sauron's power if they were to take the ring, and that is not something the ring wants.

Gandalf's love of the halflings leaf clearly slowed his mind...💚

Gandalf does mention the lesser rings in the movie, after Bilbo pulls his disappearing act from the party, he tells him something like "There are many magic rings in this world and none of them are to be used lightly"

Well Gandalf did say in fellowship to Bilbo "there are many magic rings and none of them should be used lightly" which did make me think at the time how many total there are 🤔
But makes sense to me, if the greatest evil object in the world in in possession of his friend he wanted to make ABSOLUTELY certain that it was the one
Just glad he found out in the end 😂

Absolutely love the idea that humility and showing pity are rewarded, such as when choosing to give up the ring or not take a life in order to have it. This falls in line with Tolkien's ideas (which perhaps why he wrote it in the books) that greed, and being power hungry often lead to disastrous results, whereas when being humble and respectful, it can lead to greater things.
As a Psychologist (so I can't help what I'm about to say), I liken the ideas of humility and respect as a way of exerting less pressure on yourself. If you are constantly greedy and power hungry, the pressure on yourself to keep having the power gnaws at you, it ramps up the pressure you feel. When you don't seek it, you feel less pressure, and when you feel less pressure, you find yourself thinking clearer, with less anxiety, and possibly becoming happier more easily.
When that happens, you might find yourself living a longer life.

Little fun fact on the side: Sir Christopher Lee's voice is so special, maybe some people remember his voice-over of King Haggard in the animated movie 'The Last Unicorn'. The likeness of that character to Saruman is quite amazing. Having watched that movie as a child, it immediately brought back memories when I first watched LOTR. The way you emphasize what Tolkien wrote about Saruman's voice just goes to show that Christopher Lee was the greatest choice. What a legend!
Thanks for this great video. It's still crazy to me that they managed to do all that time compression in LOTR: FOTR. Gandalf travelled so much... 🙂😅

Would love a theory video about what would happen in middle earth if Smeagol and Deagol never found the ring, and it stayed lost!

As Gandalf says himself (at least in the movie version of Fellowship of the Ring), "Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

That's some amazing art running the background! Lots of talented artists! I like mostly the ones that look like just pencil, yet great detail; even in some, by absence of lines. They're all wonderful in their own right! Bravo to the Artists!
Edit: Glad you give credit to the artists and a link to them!

Great video! I appreciate the context, it underlines how Tolkien created not just an epic tale but a living world. Doubt, plausible alternatives, enemy manipulation and plain simple hope all combined to cloud the matter. Where some authors would skip over why, Tolkien did not hold back.

I honestly believe he began having suspicions when he finally learned about the ring in The Hobbit and realized that was having an affect on Bilbo’s personality. Bilbo being a fundamentally honest person wasn’t the sort to try and lie and hide the truth from his companions about finding a magic ring. If I remember right in the book even Gandalf had a certain look but kept quiet and became more watchful in respect to Bilbo

Gandalf could have ascertained the nature of Bilbo's ring much sooner if he had access to the lotr wiki page.

This is easy to understand for us readers, who can see everything as a whole. To understand why Gandalf failed to notice this, it is necessary to look at the situation from Gandalf's point of view. It is my inference that the One Ring, in conjunction with its bearer, may also influence those around it. In this context, he may have influenced him to avoid being noticed by Gandalf.

Honestly beyond all your amazing knowledge of Tolkein's work, i keep coming back for how good your voice overs are, truly amazing.

Just started reading fellowship and it's really interesting how Gandalf leaves and returns to the Shire to check on Frodo over the span of several years.

With every video I watch here or iver at In Deep Geek, i am absolutely blown away by Tolkien's writing and lore.
The depth of this lore is incredible and i love that it is the manner in which a person gets ownership of the ring that decides their fate.
Tolkiens books and PJs original three films are lightning in a bottle. I don't expect to see or read anything this perfect again for a very very long time

Great video! I feel like Gandalf answered this himself when he says that there are many magical rings in the world and none should be used lightly!" Tie that comment in with Galadriel's monolog from FOTR about "things that should not have been forgotten were lost," Then add to that the fact that we see several incidents where Gandalf's mind seemed to be slipping (the secret door into Moria, the path through Moria). My assumption has always been that after so many years and so many magical rings in the world, and a very old Gandalf the Grey (his power and mind was restored when he came back as Gandalf the White) that it is understandable that he didn't immediately jump to the idea of Bilbo's ring... found in a cave deep under the misty mountains would be THE RING... Even for a Maia.

You've made many good videos on Tolkien's Arda. And this is one of your absolute best, perhaps because you get at one of the master's great themes, the nobility of heartfelt pity. We see here how it saved Bilbo. And we'll see later how Bilbo's pity and Frodo's allowed that latter's quest to be completed even as he himself failed.
Tollkien's idea pity, which some might call mercy, is at the heart of not just his vision, but his genius. For Bilbo's pity really does save the world.

I personally think this may be one of the most important videos you've made. Even Tolkien did not know the significance when he wrote of Bilbo acquiring the ring, since The Hobbit was a book written for his children way before LOTR was conceived. It's a stroke of mastery that Gollum's background ended up so well for the LOTR story. Also the timeline surrounding the first two chapters of the Fellowship of the Ring is very important for understanding Gandalf's process of understanding what Bilbo actually found, something which most PJ film fans miss out on.

The last comment Bilbo makes about the ring as they’re heading to the harbour (in the movies at least) is when he asks Frodo if he can see his ring again, upon finding out Frodo “lost it” Bilbo says “Ohh pity”
Nice way to tie in pity playing such a large role in his ownership of the ring

Great video! The only part that does not fit, as far as I read the text, is that Gandalf assumed it could be one of the lesser Rings. As he says to Frodo in The Shadow of the Past he knew it was a Great Ring from the start:
‘When did I first begin to guess?’ he mused, searching back
in memory. ‘Let me see - it was in the year that the White Council drove the Dark Power from Mirkwood, just before the Battle of Five Armies, that Bilbo found his ring. A shadow fell on my heart then, though I did not know yet what I feared. I wondered often how Gollum came by a Great Ring, as plainly it was - that at least was clear from the first. Then I heard Bilbo’s strange story of how he had ‘‘won’’ it, and I could not believe it.

The video itself is amazing. I enjoyed it very much how you carefully explained the order and the possible explanation for Gandalf's Error. I always like it when you do direct readings from the book in a very realistic voice. The line; "He said and did then that filled me with a fear that no words of Saruman could allay. I knew at last that something dark and deathly was at work.", it just gave me the chills. It is so sharp to the point and it expresses the shock of realization perfectly.

Amazing! I always love watching LOTR lore videos and Nerd of the Rings has been one of my favorite channels for a long time. This particular video just struck me in the right way though, the production value is superb; the list is endless: the music, soothing talking voice, great voice acting, stunning artworks that fit the words, and seeing the scroll of Isildur actually written in a scroll is all just amazing. Not to mention the topic itself here was very interesting. Yeah, I'm definitely a big fan of yours! Keep up the great work, you'll reach 1 million subs soon and then it's time for celebration! Much love from Finland!

Currently reading through Fellowship of the Ring, I love that Gandalf only knew for certain it was the One Ring after tossing it in the fire

One thing I always find fascinating is the weight Tolkien puts on the way a character gains the master ring and how much it corrupts them, Bilbo got the ring while exorcising pity and was almost not corrupted, some will even say blessed and Isildur claimed the ring out of grief and as far as we know wasn't corrupted at all.

I don't think Gandalf KNEW it was the One Ring at any time when Bilbo still had it; it wasn't until Frodo had the Ring and Gandalf tested it in the fireplace that he truly knew that the One Ring had truly ended up in the Shire. I think Saruman's abilities to influence others played a huge role in damping Gandalf's suspicions.

I always thought how awesome it would be if they made a anima made “what if” series on Lord of the Rings. There could be lots of fun scenarios you could play with. How did things change if Bilbo really did kill gollum? What if Frodo and Sam marched with the orcs all the way to meet with Gandalf and company in battle? And so many other fun things. Some ending in disaster and the ruin of middle earth, and some taking unexpected turns.

As for why Gandalf checked in to Bilbo with Balin some years after the Quest of Erebor: Gandalf always had some hobbit friends to visit when he took a short vacation from his travels, most notably Gerontius the Old Took, of whom Bilbo was a grandson. They were naturally best friends, and beside that Gandalf also probably thought that Bilbo was a safe keeper of that weird and potentially dangerous ring that must have originated in Eregion.

I must say, that really got me thinking. What if Saruman had not turned to evil? Just imagine how differently things might have played out, not even in the War of the Ring but the actual finding of the One before Bilbo ever met Gollum.
I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this, and Matt's too!

Hey Matt, as always I love your videos. If you were ever thinking or considering doing an audio book for Tolkien's work, I would be the first to buy! I love your voice-overs of all the characters in your videos, and your ability to explain Tolkien's world while keeping the content fun and entertaining is always the best! Thank you Matt for another great one!

Great video, well explained, would love to of heard you explanation of why Gandalf left Frodo when he knew he had the one, I know at that time Saruman was still trusted and Gandalf went seeking his advice, even so still think Gandalf could of made sure Frodo was safe with Aragorn or the elves before seeking Saruman

I always remember Gandalf's words in the film, that there are many magic rings in the world and none should be used lightly. That was always the only explanation that I needed to explain it. Gandalf wasn't sure if Bilbo was in possession of a problem, or just some ancient heirloom.

Sam also gave the ring up willingly. Though he only carried it briefly, he did wear it and feel its pull intensely, as he wore it inside Mordor, where its power was greatly increased. Since the manner of receiving and giving the ring is so important, this proves significant because both Bilbo and Sam where able to live long lives, with neither being deeply affected by the ring. They both received it in a pure manner, Bilbo with pity for Gollum and Sam taking it from what he thinks is Frodo's dead body to continue the quest of destroying it. While Frodo took the ring in a pure way as well, he did not give it up willingly, which likely contributed to his inability to find peace after losing it, leading him to leave Middle-Earth for the Undying lands only a few short years after its destruction.

Thanks as always, love your videos and keep up the hard work. Would love to see one about Barad-dûr in the future! The tallest and most fortified structure in all of Middle Earth, still seemingly shrouded in mystery all this time. A prominent structure in the Second and some of the Third Age, destroyed twice. What did Sauron's Throne Room look like? Did he hold court like Kings of men or did he sway his orders through the Mouth or Eye of Sauron? Did Orcs guard the tower or some other creations of evil? Were Orc forces built up in the tower and then dispersed throughout Mordor afterwards? Did the Fel Beasts roam the tower? Did Sauron, in the Third Age, ever fear that hosts of Elves and Men may attempt to attack and destroy the tower again? Very cool stuff.

Here's the part that puzzles me - Galadriel knew when Frodo had put the ring on; she said he had only put it on three times since he knew what he possessed (Bombadil's house, Bree and Weathertop) when he asked at the Mirror. How could she tell that, but neither she, Elrond or Gandalf knew that the ring was active the many times Bilbo would have worn it casually or Gollum before that?

I was always curious about the lesser rings that were created. Thanks for discussing this.

Alright, you convinced me. I'll rewatch the movies today with this context in mind.

Having only watched the introduction thus far, I will say that gandalf still trusted saruman at that point and had no reason to suspect that this was not a lesser ring. As far as he knew the wisest of his order was sure the ring was washed into the sea.

This is a pretty thorough analysis and the conclusions drawn quite reasonable. Everyone thought the one ring was lost forever so anyone seeing an unadorned magic ring at that point would naturally assume it to be one of the many lesser rings. There were probably dozens of such rings made so it would not be that unusual for Gandalf to come across one from time to time. This is reinforced by the fact that Bilbo seems emotionally unaffected by the ring something unusual as all other creatures seem seriously affected by any of the rings of power let alone the one ring. The only one we know not to be similarly affected being Tom Bombadil.

He didn't know for certain that Bilbo possessed the One Ring until he confirmed his suspicions by throwing it into the fireplace in front of Frodo. Until then, he only suspected there was something more to Bilbo's ring than he initially thought, and his suspicion about the ornament's true nature became stronger as he investigated it.

There's a important part missed. When Bilbo first recounts how he escaped Golem to Gandalf. One of Gandalf's first responses was to say " Your story has the ring of truth, yes it RINGs of truth. Hinting greatly he knew then Bilbo had a magic ring though not knowing it was thee ring at the time.

Amazing video, I really loved it. I've never asked myself why exactly Bilbo wasn't corrupted while Golem was, and how important seeing what the ring does to Golem is such an important thing for both Bilbo and Frodo, even Gandalf

Bilbo giving up the Ring is the single most heroic act in all of Arda's history.

I always felt Gandalf knew he had it, but knew it would be safe with Bilbo.

A great video on this question. Whenever he suspected, he couldn't confirm it until he threw the ring into the fire and saw the words engraved on it. Tolkien created so much history and lore for his story that it's truly a pleasure to explore different facets of it.

This is the first Ive heard about Bilbos resilience against the influence of the ring being so because of the way he inherited the one ring. Interesting stuff.

My favorite moment was in the 1977 Hobbit when Gandalf commented that Bilbo's story "Your story has the RING of truth. Yes, it RINGS true", practically winking at the camera.

I always wondered why Gandalf didn't tell the others of the danger of going through the mines of Moria.
Also, on that topic, how come Gimli was unaware of the genocide of the dwarves in the mine? Bali was his cousin - one would think somebody would tell Gimli about it. Given the state of decomposition of the corpses, it didn't look like a very recent thing.

Thanks for this video. It was well done and very interesting! The artwork you use in your videos is wonderful.

This is my favorite Clip-Share channel for the Lord of the rings lore content. Can you make a video explaining all the different rings and their capabilities? Thank you!

He didn't know for certain until Bilbo was heading to Rivendell, when he threw the ring into the fire in front of Frodo. The ring wasn't hot, but showed a script in burning red around the ring: "One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie."

The scene where he researched it is my favorite in the whole series

hey mat, great job in this video, I feel like this might be one of your best works, if not the best! You explained in such a depth and clear manner one of the most complicated but also important questions regarding Tolkien's lore.

Sauron also clouded the thoughts of his enemies, blocking foresight and causing strife and mistrust.

Your knowledge is off the scale...keep it going for us...we'll keep watching

He was suspicous from the get go after the dwarves escaped goblin town. He became more suspicious over the ensuing years. He was fairly certain after reading Isildure's scroll in the vaults at Minas Tirith. He KNEW after he tested it in Frodo's hearth, as he said himself after retrieving it from Frodo's fire.

I like how the hinted at Gandalf noticing Bilbo's suspicious behavior but never actually confirming what he thought

Gandalf assumed he had a lesser ring, but in my head cannon I always believed Gandalf selected bilbo to specifically find the ring.

The way I always interpreted things from what I read was that prior to Frodo getting the ring after the eleventy seventh party gandalf only suspected the ring was a lesser one, until he actually went researching after Frodo got it, (the part that kept him away for many years) he didn't know just what ring it really was

What an amazing video! Love the combination of storytelling and the art work.

Just amazing how Tolkien works a concept like pity from seemingly small actions by characters and turn that into the entire reason Sauron was able to be destroyed in the first place.

Writing from my partner's account. First video of yours I've seen, just wanted to say you've got a good story-telling voice. Seamless transition, not overacted and simply pleasant and fitting. Also very happy with your speeding, it was easy to follow along. Thank you!

I think he suspected it from the start. But it was not until Bilbo left Hobiton to go live with the elves that his suspicions were confirmed.

Gandalf knew before the journey even began. the main reason he brought Bilbo is that he was hoping that Bilbo would find the ring at some point.

Gandalf, being both wise and subtle, probably knew long before that it was a ring of power. Yet he kept his suspicions close, knowing that his friend may not be as friendly as he appears.

My favorite part is that even Tolkien didn't know Bilbo had the "One Ring" untill well after he started writing LotR.

Love the content keep it up 😁

I think the biggest thing that threw him off was how sturdy hobbits were to the ring's persuasion. Before Bilbo no one would have expected hobbits to be the most resilient race to the darkest of magic.

Don't forget the quip that Gandalf uses in the Hobbit when Bilbo first returns to the party with the ring after escaping the goblins and briefly describes how he did it. Gandalf knows immediately that he's lying or at least omitting details and suspects a magic ring was involved. "Your story, Bilbo, has the ring of truth. Yes, it rings true."

This is an excellent video from every point, IMO. It's not just explaining things because you made such good selections to read from the source material. There's inspiration with the education.

Followup question: Do you think Gandalf was carless with the protection of One Ring and The Shire after he found out about it?

Even Frodo never freely relinquished the Ring, only Bilbo and Sam ever did.
A 'what if' about Bilbo being the one to take the Ring to Mordor would be interesting. Giving the Ring to his nephew is one thing, but would Bilbo have been able to drop it into the cracks of doom?

I have a question. Did Gandalf know the Balrog was in the Mines beforehand? The movie seems to imply both he and Saruman did, but it is not clear from the book that he did know.

Well that is one of the best parts ..
Shadows of the past..
Where he has the ring in possession for so many years, decades even.
And just in time Gandalf finds out.
And the urgency in which it all unfolds is just so great..
Especially with the first read.
Luckily I'm of the generation that has read it before there were the movies..
How would one now read this masterpiece blank minded?

In The Hobbit book, Bilbo literally told them he found a ring in the goblin caves - it wasn't a secret. At his birthday party in LOTR when he disappeared, Gandalf actually made a flash at the same time because it thought it was better than way, which Bilbo didn't agree with. Gandalf also knew Bilbo was going to stay with the elves and all that. But he didn't know it was the ONE ring until the point when he threw it into the fire and Frodo saw the writing.

Beautifully done. Very clearly setting out the sequence of events and the reasons for all that took place.

I like the pity take on the Ring. If you stole it because you knew it had a lot of value, you would get corrupted inmediatly. But if you felt you took it from a pitiful creature, the ring would be quiet for a pretty long time.

This always bugged me a little about Gandalf. The story is incredible (obviously) and I'm willing to go along with it. But it seems to me, as his whole mission was to aid the people against Sauron, that he would have committed the entire library of Gondor as related to Isildur and the Ring to memory many centuries before even meeting Bilbo. It's a little strange that he hadn't read those scrolls yet, seems like one of the most obvious things to do in terms of gaining information about history and your enemy.

Another answer: In the beginning, even Tolkien didn't know Bilbo's ring is the One. I mean, Gollum originally gave it to Bilbo as a reward for winning their game.

First Gandalf began to suspect when he convinced Bilbo to leave the ring over to Frodo. Later when studying Isildur's notes in Minas Tirith. And finally when returning to Frodo to make the fire test.

I imagined it went like this:
First, Bilbo has a ring, that obviously was highly treasured by Gollum and allowed him to get out the Mountains caverns unseen, which Gandalf knew from the beginning, thereby making it a magic ring.
Second, Gollum escaped from the mountains and was found again by the elves and then Aragorn in different places of middle earth, both times cursing baggins and wanting to find the ring, this suggests the ring has a hold over people, as Gollum had clearly not left the caves for a very long time.
Third- after a period of some time, maybe 30- 40 years, the rumours of Bilbo being well aged, seeming almost untouched and having already reached a old age yet not slowing in activity would have been very common in the shire, and Gandalf would spend time in the Shire so even if he didn't visit Bilbo lots he would have heard. This would immediately make him suspicious, as only rings of power can sustain and prolong life so, making age not affect the user, and seeing Bilbo himself, Gandalf would have seen the sight.
Fourth- Gandalf noticed that Bilbo would always be secretive about the ring and the true story of Gollums cave, suggesting it had a hold over him.
Fifth- and the most terrifying, Bilbo mentions he felt thin and like butter over too much bread, which is exactly what the ring does.
Sixth- he learnt of the Stores and the geneology books, which detailed on the very same river Isildurs ring fell in Smeagol gained a ring himself, and began to be known as Gollum.
So I guess either shortly before Bilbo's party or in the 20 something years between Frodo leaving for Rivendell.

really love this video! that whole point of view at the end that bilbo endured the evil of the ring because of how he came in possession of it, never thought it that way! thankss

What a wholesome video. I know it sounds strange, but it felt oddly therapeutic to watch. Well done 🍻

As always, well done!!!😁🍻
The fan art was superb!
For me, this excerpt was theologically profound. I will not expand on that here.
The voice overs Matt were great! It really brings you into the tale!😁🧝‍♀️🧝‍♂️🧙‍♂️🎆

Now I want to see you do a what if video where Bilbo decided to kill gollum instead of letting him live and how it would have altered history

An excellent video and one of my favourites. I always enjoy the fact that they are so comprehensive.

It was obvious he didn't know until frodo put it in the fire. He suspected it could be sometime after bilbo's birthday party and clearly felt relief at first when no writing showed up.