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They're interesting devices, and definitely useful in some applications, but I'll not be buying any in a hurry. That price is crazy, until economies of scale start to kick in.
Can you please make a video on making a vibration sensor which is very sensitive? It will be a great help for me.
Give my name and details so you can sell them for advertising…. Yeah right.
Great contentGreat scott
SWEET!Also: I'm looking for curated playlists.... any reccomends?
An as IoT enthusiast, it was all "woah" and "awesome" until you revealed the price 😅
It will decrease by the years😅
the price of it here in ph its like 3 to 4$
@John Jingleheimersmith while thats correct, that our energy requirements thus battery requirements increase and lithium is the best what we can suggest yet. future might be different. scientists constantly experimenting with new materials and for me silicon-air battery is pretty interesting. im excited and waiting its development
Not sure the world will ever have enough lithium to supply batteries for the innumberable IoT devices in existence and still to come. Especially as growing EV market will compete for them. Price will just go up once we hit the crucial inflection point in 5-10 years.
Thomas Edison's bulb costed 23$ (in today's price). compare them to nowaday bulb's either price or efficiency
They're handy in model railroading to supplement power for lights, sounds, and motor where you have dirty rails and intermittent electrical contact.
@dicko195 Most MRRs of any size are on DCC now. It's not sensitive to polarity.
@gen kidama, Ultra capacitors are ultra cool.
This is exactly why I ordered these. I'm gonna make a model railroad on 24v and gonna stepdown the voltage inside each train and keep them running when they disconnect with these things.
I wonder how many of us are here because we heard that they're the final solution to dirty track.
@danny117hd run the trains on a/c, run the buildings, lights, etc on dc.
If these come down in price, I could see pairing them with cheap sealed lead acid batteries for an ebike capable of rapid acceleration bursts
outside of drag racing, current battery tech is already capable of enough power to do that. its not too hard to get more power than you can put down with very high output cells, electric carts for instance that will do 0-100 in about 1.5 secondsclip-share.net/video/I-NCH8ct24U/video.html for example.
@mphmm adding to your point from above, solar panels are another example of MatSci finally catching up with innovation. We've been putting polysilicon-based PV panels in space for like 50 years, but originally at tremendous cost and with stringent fabrication requirements. Now you can roll-to-roll manufacture polymer-based PV panels so quickly and cheaply that they outcompete solar mirror farms and even some fossil fuels.
@EasyBatteryBox Yeah but range on batteries is abysmal for now
I'd imagine a lead acid battery would probably negate some efficiency of riding the bike, being as heavy as they are
And what do we learn? Energy storage technology has still a long way to go and seems to be just at the beginning. I wonder what´s going on in 10 years from now.
We're actually very near the end of 120 years worth of battery research. We're bumping up against the laws of physics with Lithium ion very soon and there's nothing better that doesn't have serious problems. (Example: Some proposed chemistries change volume between charged vs discharged.)
@Connor Decker Fair points. Thanks.
@kcgunesq there's two more faster records set in 2020 26hr ave between the two but they are... "covid class" acknowledged runs but not met with the same challenges of all the other runs and are considered in their own category by the cannon ball community.
@kcgunesq in 1971 the record was set in a (brock yates)1971 dodge van styled like an ambulance at 40:51 then a little later the same year a (brock yates)Ferrari hit 35:53. The record didn't break under 30hrs until 2013 when it was set by ed bolian @28:5. So im comparing the Tesla Model S LR time @42:17 to the 1971 time. To me, once it hit 36 hours or less, thats quite the accomplishment.
@Connor Decker I thought the canonball record was just about 1 day. So how is completing in 2x the time comparable?
Supercapacitors were one of my favorite future technologies when I was in college. Still hoping that they will.
Yea totally! I mean... the only gripe seems to be how big they are... so make the entire roof thikk with super/ultracaps, and have a substantial boost with regenerative braking already.
I think I stumbled upon them when I was still a teenager. Only 'tech' that's excited me more has been Graphene. Still want to do a hybrid supercap array + lead-acid in my car someday.
Having to implement over- discharge protection for these seems difficult to me, if wanting high discharge capability also. That's one advantage of conventional super caps, they behave pretty simply. 🤔
@David Gunther perhaps a voltage monitor controlling a relay capable of the amperage?
The over discharge protection only needs to be designed to handle the current you intend to use, not the max current that the LIC could deliver.Maybe just a logic level MOSFET would be enough, with a normal diode or two (not zener) in series with the gate, to set a crude threshold voltage.Zener diodes need a minimum current going through them to do their thing, but a normal silicon or germanium diode still has a definite switch-on voltage, even at a really low current.Say you have a logic level MOSFET that switches on fully with a gate voltage of 2.5V, you can then add a silicon diode in series with the gate to add another 0.55V-0.6V to that, or maybe two germanium ones, which have lower leakage, and a lower threshold voltage.
You could probably do it with thyristors, like an scr, properly chosen so that the forward current drops below the holding current before the voltage drops below the recommended minimum, but that would need to be application specific
@HighfireX yes, looks like LiFePO4 cells have very similar voltages to these capacitors.
You may be able to use existing lithium ion charging circuits to protect these capacitors, since they have similiar charge/discharge requirements. May be useful in solar projects where you need the lower discharge rate during off-peak hours.
Can you reverse the polarity and overcharge them with several times the rated voltage at the same time? Regular electrolytic capacitors can blow up spectacularly so I want to see how much of an explosion these would make.
im interested to know if michael bay can use this to make the explosion in his movies
Really interesting indeed! 😃I would love to see 18650 spot welding project using those and a battery pack!Anyway, stay safe and creative there! 🖖😊
@CryptoPhoenix .2mm nickel is getting near the top end of "affordable" if you're using supercapacitors. I helped develop and release the Nano spot welder on Kickstarter which used 3x Eaton 3V 370UF supercapacitors for the welding current. Even at a $75 pricepoint it can only reliably weld up to .2mm nickel.
Kweld uses these, or can. I hope to get one later this year, and will try to get the capacitor bank…
@Werner Viehhauser But can it weld thicker >=0.2mm nickel? and what is the effect of heat to the health of the batteries?
@CryptoPhoenix I do that with a 30 € spot welder based on LiPo pouch batteries. I am not sure you can easily beat that with supercaps, they also have current limits etc.
Nice video!Are there any cool integrated circuits that can be used to implement most of the required protection? They may make using these LICs more practical.
Didn't know there was such a thing as LICs. I do now. As always, interesting and appreciated, thank you.
I can think of an additional real-world use for these. Already, start capacitors are used in heating and air conditioning units. In recreational vehicles with AC units in them, the initial power draw spikes the amperage, meaning that you can't run the whole RV's power system at the same time until the AC has settled down. Also, even if you have a generator that supplies enough runtime power, the initial current draw will trip the circuits in a typical generator, and that is why capacitor hard-start kits are becoming standard on RVs.But if household AC units were manufactured with capacitors built in, it would relieve the spiking of demand in city power grids in high demand events, smoothing out the power demands on the grid.
That is not the role of a "start capacitor". It doesn't store energy for startup, it is there to create a phase shift in a motor winding.
Seems like an interesting technology but at that price it’s hard to justify the need for it unless the use case requires it.
Let's be honest, we all just wanted to see these caps blow stuff up. They're cool and all, but the destruction factor is what grabs my eye with capacitor related videos. Great video nonetheless!
At those prices, I wouldn't blow them up for fun!
Electroboom would agree.
The destruction is definitely a bonus ;-) But other than that, I think those caps were quite interesting.
these would work amazing as a modular battery pack or wireless induction charging at stopsigns and lights
Hey GS, Thank you for the many years of great content and teaching electronics. As a long time loyal sub, you have my views. I kinda miss the old intro, but, the new one looks cool as well. All the Best from Oregon, C.
In something like Air Pods this could be really useful since it is less likely to explode, holds a charge longer, and works best at small voltages. The only problem would be the size, but I'm sure they will improve in the near future.
Seems to me that these super caps should be used in regenerative braking. Capture braking energy to stop and use it to accelerate.
They may be useful in some applications. But for a lot of things mentioned in the comments supercaps are still the better option, maybe paired with a Li-Ion battery. At least in my opinion.
I would love to see a spot welder build using these!
Could be good for dash cams, IoT and various sensors placed in harsh environments.
@D L Wait, what? I thought LICs can discharged thousands of times @ 08:05 . Discharge rate would also matter, wouldn't it? Of course, advancements are still needed. What would be your technology of choice for the particular sensors?
Installing standard Li ion battery on dashcam causes it to bloat
I design sensors for harsh environments (max 70C for >10yrs).It's unlikely a rechargeable lithium chemistry will ever last that long. And the 500-1000 cycle limit is very limiting.Supercapcitors can be used, but the design is costly, complex and larger than you'd think.
Brb gonna mod my dashcam real quick
as always, Thank you for bringing latest technology content
I wonder how these would work as decoupling capacitors & to help prevent voltage ripple during high current demand from lipo batteries 🤔
HiIts realy interesting. But did you used a LTO Battery? That sounds much more interesting for IOT for me than the capacitors.
Is there a good way to prevent burning of relay or switch contacts with supercaps? I suppose you could put a small inline resistor to limit the initial current, then bypass the resistor with a relay after the initial inrush current.
One of the reason why i watch great scott videos, is because i can keep up to date with the latest technology. Thank you for producing such videos.
Very interesting. Would you be willing to make a tutorial on how to use a supercap to do the occasional spot welding? How to charge it, what protection circuit to use, what terminals to use...
Great video. I wasn't aware LICs existed and now I know their pros cons and purpose. Thanks :-)
They seem really useful for solar LoRa devices that need short bursts of power. They can be used outdoors without thermal protection, due to wide temperature range: -30C to +85C.I just hope they will get cheaper.
1) Voltage proportional to charge, not relatively constant like a battery.2) Far lower energy density (Joule per volume, Joule per weight) than batteries.These make incorporating them into useful designs more challenging that one might think.
thanks for posting, ive been thinking of adding supercaps to an airsoft gun for a while for a consistant cycle rate and this video covered all of the pros and cons
I like you testing both type of items. look forward to see a battery replacement of a car lead acid battery. Hope this would work.
What I got from it is 30% more energy capacity with comparable supercap and much lower self discharge. ~ X00% more expensive over supercap, so not for me.
I was wondering if you could make a video about modifying a PWM signal?For example to set custom endpoints for a servo controlled by an already existing device.
Have you seen the energy density values for metal nitride super capacitors seriously impressive stuff
hybrid batteries will for sure be the future for EV's. Regen is a big player in the overall efficiency of an EV and EV's could get a boost of performance from one of this.
Nice video and thanks for the new information!Do you think LICs would make a good power supply for wireless earphones ?
Wouldn't short circuiting them in the output like that cause arcs and damage inside the capacitor too?
Another one great video! 👍Thanks for testing new technologies! 😉
I can see these being best for keeping a RTC powered up for long periods of time without power.
I will certainly have to get my paws on some of these. I have quite a few super caps I recently ordered, to test and desgin and see how they do for memory backup applications in a lot of my old gear. These look even better, but time will tell.
This is THE channel i come to when i wanna see new cool tech like this. It's just like you video with ceramic batteries! Thanks for giving us this content
Can you do a video on combining this with R/C car 4s battery packs? I think those in particular would benefit from this.
Apparently there have been samples of LICs that have a specific energy similar to the best Li-ion batteries (!) and the passive discharge rate is only a few times faster than for the batteries.What's the ESR?
Ultimately what you'd want is an asic with integrated voltage reference and power switch.
Even when I was young I saw these components and knew that someone someday would have the capacity to make something great with them!
So a 21700 battery outputs way more amps (like 5 times more), holds massively more energy and is almost ten times cheaper. Nice
The relatively new intro format is so less annoying and pleasent to receive.The topic content is great and well presented.This video is possibly your best all round production so far.Good luck trying to uphold this calibre.
This is my first view of his channel, good stuff!
Great video, thanks !:)I had the same idea as @MC's Creations to order 4 of those for a spot welding project, but I got a heart attack when I saw the price :D I think high crank AGM lead acids are still the cheapest source of high current DC!
A lot of the more affordable supercaps will also have you buying more for getting the instant current capacity needed. Most of the time, dead-shorting supercaps will have them discharging current well above the peak rating of their spec sheet. I can only assume this degrades the supercap.
Indeed capacitors and batteries can work togetherLike while in drag strip mode in Tesla Model S Plaid, the capacitors will be better since they can discharge quickly providing better efficiency in minimum timeAlso while charging, say he first 70% charge is for the capacitors for their quick charging capability and the remaining 30% for traditional battery
I'd like to see the voltage-over-time curve during discharge.
Seems like there would be benefits to hybridizing true batteries such as like AA alkaline batteries with super caps.
Can this lic be used as a super capacitor replacement in cars? Currently there is a huge hype in replacing conventional capacitors aka voltage stabilizer with super capacitors.
I think this supercapacitor can be the key on creating turboprop engines.
Well, we use SPCs in some products, they are sensitive to voltage as regular Li-ion batteries. Otherwise it is very useful as a small "battery".
Hmm now I am curious to know more 🤔For using it in an iot use case, where it gets charged with a solar cell and it powers an Arduino and a motor, what kind of management circuit is needed 🤔
Wow great video. Those super capacitors are scary in terms of the current they can bump. Best regards Chris
These new type of caps sounds perfect for impulse feed with high amp discharge per pulse. What is the time-charging resistance questionable btw.
Super caps have been used in the enterprise storage environment for years to protect memory backed cache. The idea being that RAM is really fast but if they lose power the data is lost. So enterprise storage systems have a super cap that powers the memory during a power outage just long enough to write the data to a slower flash based chip.They uses to use batteries but you would need to replace them every couple of years and you would need to test them on a schedule.
Actually RAM only uses a lot of power (for SRAM) when it is being read or is being written to. The LL versions use diddly squat current. Even the crappy ones use 1uA on standby.
I used to salvage them from server computers. Quite useful stabilizing voltage in iot devices using GSM module (that can suck a lot of power for a few seconds). ELcaps can not handle it and so the MCU restarts due to the voltage drop, but even a smaller, disc-shaped supcap amazingly does the job.
I weally like the development of your channel over the last years. Keep up the gweat work!
2 questions; 1) how is the efficiency of charge/discharge 2) would the be better for capturing/returning regenerative braking power
I don't remember the name of the company but there was someone working on a hybrid battery that was one part conventional battery and one part supercapacitor.The goal was something like DRAM cache on a HDD more or less adding the ability to add limited fast charge/discharge capabilities.
Man! This is a great video… the escalation in production quality is really fun!
Curious , could they be used in series with 18650 in a battery pack ?
Is there also the occurrence of damage when charged in sub zero temps?
Hi. I’m interested to know what you think of this: supercaps based on Graphene and Graphene Oxide for electric cars. Theory: car uses supercaps instead of battery tray. Has small battery for emergency only. Supercaps charge on the go, from light, radio waves and kinetic energy. Range is beyond current EVs and charge time is minutes instead of hours… what do you think?
I'm obsessed with lithium ion batteries and normal supercaps so these look really cool! I even had a dream last night where I was charging lipo batteries lmao
For the longest time after hearing about lithium ion capacitors there was only one place I could find that was even talking about them. I'm happy to hear they finally hit the market.
The normal way of doing this for decades have been to combine supercaps with battery, it is a cheep simple solution that give you more benefits for less money.
Wait a minute, can you use them in parallel with a Lithium Ion battery to provide instantaneous high currents with minimal self-discharge?
I could imagine building a super high power arc lighter using this.The main battery slowly charges the super cap, then the cap dumps all of its energy into the arc circuitry, creating a super high energy arc for a few seconds, and then back off again for charging.
Nifty! I love seeing energy generation/manipulation/storage progress.
Am very excited to hear that this component exist now. It opens alot of potentials. But currently quite expensive for now 😃
Seems like a pain to need to keep capacitors protected from low voltage.
i use supercondensators for my cordless solar drill, and i love getting power until the last volt ! Even when there is only a few volts the battery still deliver a lot of amp ! And it charges in minutes with small solar panels. i love it ! I think those Lithium condensator need a little bit more improvement you haven't shown how they explodes when overcharged, or discharged !
If these were made large enough you could use in an electric car to quickly get a lot of energy and then while on the road slowly charge the main battery.
What would a circuit with a battery and LIC paired look like? Would you just connect them parallel and be done?
I'm wondering how long it'll be before manufacturers make a super capacitor flashlight with a "charging case" like modern earbuds.
I replaced the battery on my quad with super capacitors. Was sick of having to maintain batteries on something that was not used that often. I pull start or boost it if I had not used it in a few days but the capacitors take the charge fast and I can use the electric start and lighting on the quad. I was surprised that with a full charge I can run the led headlight for at least an hour as task lighting without having to run the engine.
@Chris Mc That was my first thought too!
@kstricl actually I will give that a try. Think I have a small solar cell kicking around I could mount to it some place.
@Scott Tod Have you considered just adding a small 12v trickle charger to maintain the voltage on the caps? I know our sun hours suck up here, but even a 6 watt solar cell may be enough to overcome the minor draw and keep the pack ready to go.
@Chris Mc I was about to ask the guy if he switched over to DJI digital yet.. so my brother I was thinking the exact same thing:-)
Wonder if either could be used for remote controls 🤔
Significant progress would be made LICs with implemented overvoltage and undervoltage protection.
Hello, I am great fan of yours. can you show a power supply circuit which can be used for any microcontroller/microprocessor in automobiles basically on a 12V and 24V system? I have been searching and trying to develop such a circuit for a very long time. It would be highly appreciated if you could provide a video tutorial on this..
Is there a circuit designed to use 18650 batteries to keep a bank of regular super caps charged without putting too much load on the batteries?
Will these capacitors have long-terms issues with lithium dendrite formation like lithium batteries do?
@Josh Nabours "if my claims are false show me the evidence."Sure - i can easily disprove any evidence you have posted so far.And done - what was adsserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.But nice of you to show your ignorance and dishonesty.
@ABaumstumpf if my claims are false show me the evidence. Otherwise I must assume you are speaking of things you know nothing about. Also, if cycle life is not a good comparison between these 2 energy storage technologies please tell me what is. Surely you know what would be better for comparing the 2 if you claim my statements are false.....
@Josh Nabours aaand now you are making more false claims.... Good luck with that, but just please do not spread your Ignorance further
I can see these being useful for some applications I have, like replacing batteries for low-noise biasing of photodiodes. Maybe I'll pick up some to try out...
Currently the energy density isn't there.When it equals the energy density and capacity of traditional batteries they'll probably replace them.
I think wiring the lithium capacitor or a regular super cap to a lithium battery makes sense in an electric car otherwise it is a new concept
I wonder if LIC's could help drone technology, particularly the ultra-light
Supercapacitors won't help a bit. Combination of standart caps (filter switching noise) and li-pol batteries (provide power, both peak and sustained power) is still unmatched for a LIC. Having LIC onboard isn't free (weight is a major concern, also weight of all of additional mounting hardware) and peak power added from it's presence isnt worts it.
@22KaTsh what happens ? What if I build a 1s drone with it ?
@Jarmezrocks The voltage rating of capacitors refers to the maximum voltage that they are allowed to take. Above this voltage rate, they usually start to leak or short circuit internally, in other words: loose energy in the form of heat. A capacitor rated at 3.5v will surely flatten 30v peaks, but they will heat up and become inefficient instead of just acting like a buffer.
@Jarmezrocks I won't philosophise that much about it, but indeed, the intent here is to use the LIC's as buffer capacity. The only difference is that their high capacitance can buffer longer current surges of around half a second compared to classic capacitors that only just equalise current peaks caused by motor spools and electronic voltage regulators (also called Choppers).
It's about finding a common multiplier! Simple as that. You can't deliver more energy out than what's put in? Just because something has the capacity for 450volts doesn't mean if you give it 3.7v that you might somehow get back 450 through some internal voltage multiplier? It doesn't work that way. They can act like a buffer because the current follows and path of least resistance? There is more internal resistance in batteries than in capacious so the caps will charge first!It's like similar to data flow on solid state drives. Think of battery storage and performance like data storage and performance?Capacitors are like RAM performanceThen Lithium ion batteries are likes solid state drives andeverything else older is like hard disk HDDs.
Hey Great Scott. Nice video but can you please make a video on making vibration sensor alarms.I need one of them in a project.
Banks of super-caps work great in conjunction with banks of lithium batteries for hi powered car stereos
What about these + magnetic railway technology + 'starlite' goop for lightweight fireproof goodness for both the vehicle and emergency barriers? :)
Interesting video although I can’t see me needing any anytime soon, although I should add that they have series safety implications and deserve a whole serious of their own. (sic)
Price doesn't matterit will significantly reduce overtime, I bet.
I wonder how many capacitors it would take to make a jump box for a vehicle?
Thanks for giving an overview of these new caps' characteristics!
It is the time to PCB designer creating CMS (Capacitor Management System) for these caps 🤣For Electric Vehicle, I think it still acceptable. But for IoT, using Lithium battery still the best way to go.
given the voltage and current, the lic output 471 watts during the short circuit test (assuming 3.8v 124a, no resistance, and discharge to 0v) even then, it would have been outputting that for 0.9 seconds, which wouldn't be enough time for it to heat up, the actual current output would have dropped even faster though, so despite peaking at 124 amps, because of the energy stored, it couldn't sustain that output long enough for any damage to occur. if it sustained that for longer than a second or two, then it would be damaged.
I have this lantern that uses a lithium ion capacitor (the component says "lithium capacitor" on it, and it has a capacity of 800mAH (not farads, which is weird)) for no apparent reason. A lithium battery would give it higher capacity, and a small lantern does not need high discharge current capabilities.
Weirdly, the component comes in a package that looks like a big capacitor.
if it says mah then ist a battery. it might say something else but mah is only usefull on a battery.a battery needs more monitoring and doesnt life as long tho.
They could become the turbo equivalent for rapid acceleration once we get bored of ~2s times.
I watched another video, where the super capacitors were used in an electric bicycle. It would charge up fully in seconds, and then the bike would go really fast for about 50 feet, then die.