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Debate: We Were Right to Brexit

  • Published on Jun 13, 2022 veröffentlicht
  • Brexit - the decision of the United Kingdom to leave the European Union. It's defenders say it made the country more independent it's detractors say it made the country less rich and powerful. Who's right? Join the debate.
    Featuring Daniel Hannan, Robert Tombs, Dominic Grieve, Stella Creasy and Jonny Dymond.
    It was always going to be a disaster. Queues of HGVs stretching miles from Dover. The Good Friday Agreement threatened by the controversial Northern Ireland Protocol. Increased support for Scottish Independence. The promised lands of lucrative new trading partnerships exposed as nothing but carbon copies of pre-existing EU deals (with Australia the only exception). The livelihoods of fishermen, farmers, and small business owners threatened by extra costs and paperwork. All this, and we have yet to feel the long-term economic damage of leaving the EU, which the Office of Budget Responsibility predicts will cause a 4 per cent reduction to GDP. A recent poll shows that a majority of British people believe we are worse off having left the EU. Clearly, Brexit was a mistake.
    That’s the argument of the doomsters in this debate. But others claim that while short-term damage is inevitable - there is always blowback from a jilted partner - Brexit is a long-term project, one that is tied to the fundamental principle of sovereignty. The Referendum result was not just a reflection of disgruntlement with out-of-touch elites or the falsehoods of the Leave campaign, but a direct consequence of the EU’s failings. Instead of unaccountable bureaucrats in Brussels, we should put our faith in the idea of the nation state - the best vehicle for democracy. Granted, our trade with our neighbours is reduced, but that was a political choice, and the bulk of Britain’s economic activity is domestic. There are plenty of opportunities for success outside the shackles of EU regulation - what better indicator than the speed of the vaccine roll-out, which far outstripped that of other EU countries? If we sit tight and play to our strengths as a country, we will reap the rewards.
    Which side is right?

Comments • 0

  • Intelligence Squared
    Intelligence Squared  Year ago +33

    What do you think - the right decision or a historic mistake? Leave your thoughts below..

    • Himsha Technology
      Himsha Technology Year ago +110

      Huge mistake. I think the facts are clear. If Boris had decided to be with the Remain campaine now UK could easily be in EU.

    • TheMincingNinja
      TheMincingNinja Year ago +38

      @Himsha Technology And what about the result of the vote? Does democracy only count when you get the result you like?

    • Jack.K
      Jack.K Year ago +13

      Both but mainly mistake.
      I stick to the view of David Cameron.
      Economically one-way mistake.
      Maybe securely security wise and immigration subjects were mostly benefited.
      Still.. economically has the major impact here.. can't deny it.
      As a conservative mainly in the aspects of defence/security and a bit more pro capitalism a bit more capitalism than socialism depends on the country.
      Right Wing Security Defence
      Both balanced capitalism and socialism economically
      Left Wing socially society.
      As a moderate-conservative more conservative and a bit labour, I think 3 historic stages in history damaged UK as the former British Empire which from my belief still exists culturally but not economically as it used to be.
      1. WWII 40s
      2. 80s The disastrous result of Margaret Thatcher's privatizing which went wrong "Done like a butcher instead of a surgeon".
      Unemployment rose and UK lost Jobs and the country's treasure lost too from the attempt of saving cash as unemployment rate rose and the unemployment checks with them and less incomes.
      Companies closed.
      Car companies.. sold or disappeared lost.
      3. 10s 2016 Brexit
      I try to look at the good side and the benefits from Brexit and being optimistic but unfortunately the drawbacks or disadvantages number and impact and their consequences outnumbered the benefits and advantages in whole in the bigger picture.
      Many ppl didn't vote back then and it's mainly relatively old and young ppl who had the time to vote and so.. there might have been more voters with outdated thinking and views and more ignorant and more anxious and cautious about nationality preservation and security which I can understand the aspect of security mainly and also nationality but it can blind about the economic impacts and their consequences.
      So I believe that the people who could vote this day were mostly elderly and young generation perhaps but mainly the elderly and less the middle ages and so the results even by slight advantage for leaving the EU were caused by the lack of diversed voters and the availability of more outdated thinking voters that were mostly anxious and worried and cautious about nationality preservation and security and less of the economy and the economy implications too and mainly also complacency from the remain voters that were sure that the vote will result in a big advantage to remain and win the vote to remain so less voters showed up too from the remain voters who pro to remain in the EU.
      So.. I believe that a second vote to assure the realism and reliability of the result truely reflects most of the people opinion.
      Anyway.. these days.. covid did get more media attention and the public and the ppl attention than Brexit and the coming economic crisis recession and mainly what worries me, the direction of the world's security.
      Biden, Putin, Iran, China all of them worries me.
      Tough times ahead of us.
      Jack, 26
      EEE Student 2nd year
      Holds Practical Engineer H.n.d in Electronics Diploma
      Ultra-Anglophile fan of British Culture Sitcoms Comedy Music and Education and much more stuff, from Israel.
      Feel culturally more British. =D

  • DT
    DT 10 months ago +75

    I look at Brexit as the classic example of 'you don't know what you got until it's gone'

    • Peter Clarke
      Peter Clarke 9 months ago +17

      It's like having a nice partner who genuinely likes you, who asks you to do things like put the bins out and contribute to the household upkeep,... But you focus on how unfair it is that you have to put your playstation controller down and put out the bins, so you leave them, and end up selling your playstation for beer money and sleeping in your car and getting more and more bitter unti you eventually end up in the drunk tank trying to work out where it all went wrong.

    • Barry Jones
      Barry Jones 8 months ago +3

      The psychopathic tantrum from the EU has shown how our exit has upset the controlling elements within the EU but these tantrums are a only a fleeting glimpse of our potential long term future within the EU. They were gripping our arm and we had to break away before the EU could weaken us and we couldn't tear ourselves away in the years to come. Brexit is the best thing the GB has done!

    • Barry Jones
      Barry Jones 8 months ago +3

      @Peter Clarke or they start to make you do all the chores and start to undermine you as a person - and make more and more demands with threats for non compliance. That was the relationship we are well out of - YOU'RE WELCOME!

    • Roger Beesley
      Roger Beesley 4 months ago +8

      Britain was indulged by the EU with numerous "opt-outs", rebates, etc. The damage Brexit has done to the UK is irreparable. The future for England particularly is very grim.

  • Sic transit gloria mundi
    Sic transit gloria mundi 11 months ago +59

    The most hilarious thing is that the panelists pretend that most Britons actually knew what the EU was about when they went to vote...

  • Richard Willford
    Richard Willford 11 months ago +65

    As a European, I frequently bought British products on-line before Brexit came into effect. Now, seeing a £-sign is enough to steer me away to other on-line options. Buying from the UK is simply too expensive. Simple as that.

    • Hundry
      Hundry 7 months ago +11

      Very well said. The British act as if Europeans are against them. The reality is that we were clients. And they lost most of us.

    • adrian coelho
      adrian coelho 7 months ago +3


    • Parasite Lights
      Parasite Lights 6 months ago +4

      I only buy music online from abroad. The situation is that most of the bands/labels I'm a fan of are British and accordingly the best deals, new or second hand, were to buy them directly from them. All this ended in the summer of 2021 when the regulations came into force and my next order from the UK was delayed for almost a month and a half, after which I had to go to clear it from customs and finally I had to pay more than 60% extra. At the moment, the main criteria when choosing my orders is that they are not from UK, even if the price is higher, in the end they come out cheaper, arrive much faster and on top of everything I save myself a lot of headaches.

    • Helen Lemink
      Helen Lemink 2 months ago +4

      Same here, i used to buy a lot of expensive electronics to UK online shops but now i buy in Germany, because the delivery delays are uncertain, I need extra paperwork and have no time for that, I'm not sure about the VAT and extra custom cost ( or changes), not sure that the 2 years warranty made by the EU laws will always remain, not sure how to send back products if any problem, etc.. Even if the german shop was more expensive ( wich is not), I will not buy UK anymore. It's not that I don't like UK at all, I've always been very satisfied by the quality of your products, it's just that you are not reliable anymore. I also have customers to satisfy and can't sell them incertitudes.

    • flitsertheo
      flitsertheo 2 months ago

      I had a collection of Lledo/Corgi "Vanguard" miniature cars. Most of these were purchased in their country of origin, the UK. As it actually was the only country where you could find those miniatures, and at good prices.
      Today I have sold most of the collection as it is no longer possible to expand the collection.

  • richard simms
    richard simms 11 months ago +57

    What an excellent debate. I have benefited from listening to both sides. But in general, my personal and emotional feeling is that the world is a happier place when geographically close countries do everything to live in harmony ( especially considering Europe’s awful history of endless warring ). RS. Canada

    • flitsertheo
      flitsertheo 11 months ago +7

      And that's the goal of the EU, preventing war between its members by closer cooperation.

    • Dynamo
      Dynamo 11 months ago +5

      I heard it put best by a great economics lecturer and researcher, Anand Menon. Where in the history of the world has a nation done best by neglecting trade with an economic powerhouse on its doorstep? The US trade closely with Mexico and Canada, the Russians, the Indians and the Chinese and the South Americas. It simply makes no sense to trade only across the globe at a competitive disadvantage when the worlds major economy sits mere miles from your coast. That will never ever be sensible economic policy.

    • Kenneth Watts
      Kenneth Watts 10 months ago +1

      @Dynamo Though non of those countries you mentioned has a political union, like them we already have a trade and cooperation agreement with the EU and I don't believe that trading with them has come to a halt either although the massive trade deficit we had has come down in our favour and we no longer have to pay for it. There are pros and cons to Brexit it's time we stopped obsessing about the cons and got on with it.

    • Flash Gordon
      Flash Gordon 8 months ago +2

      If you listen until the end, you will learn that the fundamental point, is about democracy and the right to self determination.
      - The Leave party closed by saying, “I would rather live, in a free democratic country, than in a multinational Empire.” (For better or worse) by implication.
      - This is a very tough issue. Bc there’s pros and cons, with both sides of it.
      - Personally, I didn’t vote in the referendum. Bc I don’t know, what the correct choice is. As I have no understanding, of the inner mechanisms and consequences of Brexit and I could see fallacies, employed by both camps, in the pre Brexit debate.
      - Everything that Remain said, would be lost by leaving and gained by remaining, could be accomplished after leaving and visa versa.
      - So what it all really boils down to, is which flag you prefer and which group of corrupt bureaucrats you prefer.
      - At least with Leave the EU, there’s only one group, rather than two, controlling the country.
      - But on the other hand, Great Britain is a group of countries, so there’s a fallacy in the logic of the Leave’s closing statement as well.
      - The problem with asking the people to decide the matter, was that the vast majority, as I. Have absolutely no idea, of what the mechanisms and consequences are.
      They may as well have asked us, how to build a space rocket. It’s a complete fallacy and a sham that they deferred to the people to make the decision.
      It’s like if a family with 5 children all go to the garage when the car is being repaired and they all vote on what to do with the car. It makes no sense whatsoever.
      - So, what I’ve recently deduced, from this fact. Is that they were always going to implement Brexit and they just wanted to use the people, as a scapegoat, for the blame afterwards. So when things go wrong they will say, ‘It was the people’s choice.’ Thus clearing themselves of any guilt. - The very fact a referendum was even held at all, says that things are going to go wrong, after Brexit is implemented.
      - They knew this all along, those crafty, pesky politicians and they’ve just been stringing everyone along, as they always do.
      - Creating the Corona pandemic was just a way of distracting from Brexit and deferring the blame for the post Brexit recession. It’s also “The wall” that Donald Trump promised to build.
      - The other reason that I didn’t vote in the referendum and more importantly. Is bc I put my trust in God, to guide the nations and Brexit was a part of his divine will. If the prophecy in Ezekiel 37, Daniel and other parts in the Bible. About the two opposing coalitions at Armageddon is to come true. The EU will be on Russia’s side with Persia, Libya and Ethiopia and Great Britain will be in opposition, “with all the young lions thereof.”
      - There is a YT video called Brexit and the Bible What next? That explains briefly about that.
      - At the time I bet on Leave @9/2 and later I bet on Donald Trump @9/2 as well. Bc of his policies that fitted with Brexit and the Bible’s prophecy. Also bc I saw him on The Apprentice USA in 2005 and I knew then that he had the potential to become president.
      Unfortunately I lost in 2018 on Trump, bc of the rigging. But I believe that he will return as President in 2024. Bc there’s no real credible opponent. Again it’s 9/2, I’ve already put my last £840 on it and I’m going to do more.
      I rest my case and I hope this helps.

    • Barry Jones
      Barry Jones 7 months ago +2

      Ok IN THEORY!

  • EMS 76
    EMS 76 Year ago +202

    It's a little too early to see the full consequences of Brexit. However, so far we have a potential trade war with the EU, a renewed crisis in Northern Ireland, rising costs, and an emboldened Putin who long ago considered distancing the UK from the EU an essential goal of Russia's foreign diplomacy. It has even weakened the special relationship with the US who does not wish to take sides in UK-EU disputes and is frustrated with the perpetual tantrums Westminster has been having with Brussels.

    • Ominous Parallel
      Ominous Parallel Year ago +12

      It would have been wiser to keep it to the first sentence.

    • colin stephenson
      colin stephenson Year ago +40

      @Ominous Parallel why do you think it would’ve been wiser ? Is telling the truth unwise ? Or maybe telling it as it is won’t get a great deal of appreciation from the Hard Of Thinking ?

    • Ominous Parallel
      Ominous Parallel Year ago +12

      @colin stephenson relating ‘emboldened Putin’ or ‘rising costs’ on Brexit is, to put it politely, absolute nonsense.

    • Geoff Allibone
      Geoff Allibone Year ago +28

      @Ominous Parallel O mighty speaker of wisdom! Can you sell me some of what you are smoking?

    • rugbykiwi9
      rugbykiwi9 Year ago

      You mean the full benefits of Brexit. Why would you just look at consequences?

  • Margaret Bagnall
    Margaret Bagnall Year ago +9

    Why is it all the right wing parties in the Europe are no longer stating that they want to leave the EU because they have looks at what is going on in the UK and actually now see the benefits of being in the EU and single market and Customs Union

    • Señor 404
      Señor 404 Month ago

      It's not as much a right- or left-wing issue, it's one of such basic decency that even the most deranged populists, no matter if right or left wing, avoid it.

  • Saddon Carrs
    Saddon Carrs 10 months ago +31

    England, once the seat of a strong union and a mighty empire, has been on a long slow bumpy downward spiral since WW1. Brexit is all part of that decline. I'd say the country has a ways to go yet but, by all accounts, there is no reverse gear and the nation appears to be heading inextricably towards a rather rocky bottom - with people like Daniel Hannan and Robert Tombs leading the way. There is no empire left, and soon no union.

    • jason kingshott
      jason kingshott 8 months ago

      The European Union had many opportunities to change their ways, they didn't and we all know what happened next.

    • Saddon Carrs
      Saddon Carrs 8 months ago +2

      @jason kingshott Yes, the EU goes from strength to strength and the UK is on the verge of splitting into its constituent parts.

    • jason kingshott
      jason kingshott 8 months ago

      @Saddon Carrs Hey ho, that's democracy, I don't suppose it's allowed in your country, like Ireland when they voted for no further EU integration, then told to vote again until they got the 'correct result'

    • Saddon Carrs
      Saddon Carrs 8 months ago +4

      @jason kingshott Actually, there is restricted democracy in my country. In 2014 the Scottish electorate voted to stay in the UK. In 2016 they voted to stay in the EU. They were then TOLD that they couldn't have both - and furthermore, they were TOLD that they didn't have a choice. In 2019, the tories lost more than half their seats in Scotland and the following year a tory PM imposed a hard brexit on the country against its will. So, yes, there is something of a democratic deficit in my country.
      With regard to the Irish - Ireland is an independent country within the EU. They're free to hold as many referendums as they like. So they can't be "told" to vote again, they can only be asked. If the Irish electorate came up with the "correct result" for the EU, it's only because the Irish electorate wanted it that way.

    • jason kingshott
      jason kingshott 8 months ago

      @Saddon Carrs When and who told Scotland 'that they didn't have a choice' and where is it documented? in Hansard?
      The 2016 referendum was a United Kingdom referendum (the clue is in the name) the terms and conditions were set out at Westminster and agreed by all representatives of the UK.
      You need to come out of that cave you seem to be living in 'The referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon held on 12 June 2008 was rejected by the Irish electorate, by a margin of 53.4% to 46.6%, with a turnout of 53%'

  • Thinker
    Thinker Year ago +49

    We are now in this massive mess due to the actions taken by the Brexit supporters. I can’t believe they still have the courage to express their fundamentally flawed ideas about their decisions

    • Napalm51
      Napalm51 11 months ago +1

      I see EU dying, nobody knows what do you talking about

    • Happy Camper
      Happy Camper 9 months ago +1

      So much for being a thinker. Why replace corrupt politicians with more corrupt politicians?
      Any economist will tell you a competitive market is much better for the little people, especially when compared to a single market regulated by unelected corrupt politicians.

  • Saniya Khan
    Saniya Khan Year ago +74

    I'm an American, and I can see a lot of dysfunction in the EU, issues with sovereignty, but the UK offered a referendum on the most dramatic issue the country has faced in possibly centuries, with absolutely *_No Fu**ing Plan!_* Was Brexit about staying in the single market and customs union, either, or neither? What was going to happen with Northern Ireland? What was the plan for supply chains? How were they going to keep London, Europe's only global financial hub, competative with New York, Tokyo, or Shanghai? What were they looking for in global trade? Except for Australia, the UK has carried over the same global trade deals as the EU with minor changes, and after leaving its biggest local market, is now scrabling to join trading blocks in Asia-Pacific, and N. America, it's like they've never heard of the gravity model of international trade, trade with the biggest closest neighbors is more important than little, far away, Australia. Jesus.

    • thecheesefactor
      thecheesefactor Year ago +19

      As a Canadian in the UK I saw little effort here to answer such questions. Many were put under the heading 'project fear'. It has been like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Slowly, people are starting to wake up to how big a mistake this was. The pandemic and the war in Ukraine have been useful for those trying to hide the damage, but now we are seeing the economies in Western Europe recover at a significantly faster rate than we are.

    • thecheesefactor
      thecheesefactor Year ago +12

      @ʃuðɼinga ƿeoɼc It's impossible to 100% leave the EU and its institutions and arrangements, because they are the largest trading partner and continue to be. Now, we just don't get to vote on them any more as a non-EU member. Most in the know are pro-EU because they know about basic Economics, and to vote trade restrictions onto oneself is stupid. There are gains from trade. The freer trade is, the more those gains are realised.
      There are those in the establishment who wish to see tax havens preserved, and promotion of the Brexit cause shares an uncomfortable parallel with the EU ramping up its efforts to regulate tax havens. We are talking about the top 1% of incomes here, and various dodgy companies including Russian oligarchs who donate to the Tory party.
      We're now the worst performing economy in the G7 except for Russia. This is due to Brexit. The worldwide lockdowns have caused problems everywhere but the UK has it worse - because Brexit makes everything worse.
      "The EU never bought stuff from the UK because were were in the EU"? Nonsense, UK exporters are continuing to lose market share. Your arrogance is matched only by your lack of knowledge of the actual statistics, and wallowing in pro-leave propaganda.
      You can deny the relevance of the gravity model of trade all you like, but the reality is the EU remains the UK’s largest trading partner. However, for the first time since comparable records began in 1997, the UK now spends more importing goods from the rest of the world than it does from the EU. Can you tell me who is absorbing those extra transport costs? Hmm?

  • Drake Douay
    Drake Douay 11 months ago +19

    My main "project fear" claim was that we'd move to the hard right politically because Brexit was a "gateway" to political extremists. This month we had Truss / Kwarteng / Braverman (who is still Home Secretary) but you won't hear any Brexiteers accepting that this is related to Brexit because they only flag up the predictions that were wrong, not the ones that were right.

    • Tom Piper
      Tom Piper 8 months ago +5

      Project fear is looking more and more like project reality.

  • Vee Seven
    Vee Seven Year ago +71

    We're moderately worse off than we otherwise would have been in the EU. As expected, really. The idea that we could leave the biggest economic market on earth and become better off really was always laughable.
    And the real zinger for me is the massive increase in illegal immigration as a result of Brexit. The irony is stunning in that one. Who'd have thought that distancing ourselves from our closest neighbours would lead to them being less willing to help us deal with our problems. Did anyone honestly think we could walk away and France would just volunteer to continue to essentially have our border on French soil? Dear me.

    • Geoff Allibone
      Geoff Allibone Year ago +5

      I have a bridge for sale. It's a beauty. I think you should buy it.

    • Callie1981
      Callie1981 Year ago +9

      "moderately worse off" I needed a laugh today

    • Quantum Grizzly
      Quantum Grizzly Year ago +2

      Spoken as if dinghies crossing the channel only started in January 2021.

    • Vee Seven
      Vee Seven Year ago +6

      @Quantum Grizzly Ever since we've negotiated our exit from the EU the number of crossings has skyrocketed. What a surprise! 😅

    • Quantum Grizzly
      Quantum Grizzly Year ago +2

      @Vee Seven no denying that, but you’ve got to realise that what is causing these illegal crossings in the first place is a) an open door immigration policy that allows inter-member state travel. B) an unwillingness by the EU and it’s member states to stop illegal immigration entering the EU in the first place. At the end of the day, by UK, EU and French standards, the crossings are illegal and for remainers including yourself to champion the idea that if we’d stayed then the French would actually do what they’re supposed to but because we’ve left then they’re wilfully encouraging illegal activity is a pretty piss poor excuse to want to stay. A ‘you’d better vote remain or else we’ll drop our own standards, forget our own laws and allow illegal activities against you’ is precisely the type of mentality we should all be speaking out against. Some of us however seem to revel in it.

  • Ajmal Sarwar
    Ajmal Sarwar Year ago +114

    Great to see these debates back in public in front of an audience.

    • David Warburton-Burley
      David Warburton-Burley Year ago

      @Nikolaucz Naum Liverpool?

    • Nikolaucz Naum
      Nikolaucz Naum Year ago

      @David Warburton-Burley 200 cotton mills in Oldham when it was in its pomp, How do think we were able to by-pass Liverpool docks with the ship canal and relegate Liverpool to 2nd division status??..🙂

  • Charlie 🙃
    Charlie 🙃 8 months ago +77

    Listening to this 7 months after it was posted with the benefit of hindsight, it's actually incredible how much the Remain speakers are correct, and how much the speakers for Leave have been proven wrong.

    • jason kingshott
      jason kingshott 8 months ago

      What do you mean, 'correct'?

    • Charlie 🙃
      Charlie 🙃 8 months ago +7

      Invictus Ok Boomer

    • Charlie 🙃
      Charlie 🙃 8 months ago +6

      @jason kingshott That the events of the last 7 months, and the new economic information we have, have proved everything that Remain side said here was true, and embarrassed the Leave side as everything they said has been proved false

    • jason kingshott
      jason kingshott 8 months ago

      @Charlie 🙃 The UK democrats who voted out are not 'embarrassed', they are delighted they are out of that cesspit.

  • Matt Hooks
    Matt Hooks Year ago +123

    Most debates start with a question, not a statement.
    Of course we weren't. We've royally screwed the economy and the people for generations to come.
    I'm still waiting for a brexiteer to tell me exactly what they've gained from Brexit...

    • Matt Hooks
      Matt Hooks Year ago +14

      Simon John first off, have you ever read the proposed changes? Because nothing in them could or would have forced us to give up the right to our own army or defence.

  • Lectures from  Leeds
    Lectures from Leeds Year ago +204

    The irony is that Boris Johnson not enforcing reciprocal checks on EU goods, it gives EU producers a competitive advantage over UK producers, which they wouldn't have in a level playing field, which being in the single market would have provided

    • Pantifax Maximus
      Pantifax Maximus Year ago +8

      That would have just fucked us twice.

    • Stuart Brown
      Stuart Brown Year ago +4

      What total bollocks!

    • ʃuðɼinga ƿeoɼc
      ʃuðɼinga ƿeoɼc Year ago +2

      Not really, EU imports to UK have fallen and UK exports to EU have not changed.

    • tttttttttttttt
      tttttttttttttt Year ago +39

      ​@ʃuðɼinga ƿeoɼc That's not true though.

    • ʃuðɼinga ƿeoɼc
      ʃuðɼinga ƿeoɼc Year ago +1

      @tttttttttttttt It is true - go to the ONS for the proof. In fact UK exports to the EU are at an historic high.

  • h
    h Year ago +186

    Europe is becoming less important? So how come ALL manufacturing companies are opting for the EU (CE) code when producing their goods for world-wide sale? How come the EU trading block is the largest in the world?

    • J Robs
      J Robs Year ago +15

      Still thinking the EU is a trading block. Bless you

    • h
      h Year ago +31

      @J Robs problem with that "question/statement is that you do not bring forward any example as to how the EU is NOT simply a trading block. Any examples where the EU parliament has proposed a LAW that could not be ignored by any given member state? Obviously not - so all the proposals coming from Brussels have to do directly or indirectly with the interaction of goods and/or services between member states and third countries - give me an example where this is not so. PS I do not need blessings since I do not have worship

    • andrew30
      andrew30 Year ago +5

      @h 3 weeks and still waiting for a reply I see.

    • h
      h Year ago

      @andrew30 nope - no idea what that means

  • GT
    GT 10 months ago +17

    I liked the argument: "Look we have more visa requests since the brexit!" Of course you have, since many people has to request now who hadn't before. That only means the burocracy is stronger now.

  • MS
    MS 8 months ago +2

    The one and only brexit benefit so far is that since then the union is stronger than ever! Thank you UK for taking one for the team and showing us all how stupid of an idea leaving the EU is.

  • Noname Nameless
    Noname Nameless Year ago +42

    In my book at least, Stella Creasy totally mopped the floor with a very concise, hard hitting speech followed up by great direct answers to the questions - outstanding! I m not a Brit, never heard her name before so I genuinely don t know about her track record but her speech and answers were of the kind that I d qualify as impressive, fact based, straight to the point without beating around the bush.

    • Anindya Majumdar
      Anindya Majumdar 8 months ago +1

      Ah yezzz!
      Reciprocal checks on EU goods is the a brilliant move !
      Are three lectures from Leads specialize in comedy???!

    • Le Doctor Bones
      Le Doctor Bones 4 months ago +2

      MulhorandPrince Playing the "Hitler card" is actually a known rhetorical trick I learned from public speaking. We specifically learned to never do it, since it signifies you've lost the debate since you have no actually valid arguments left.

  • Matt Hooks
    Matt Hooks Year ago +45

    We've given more visas because we've had to. Because the large numbers of seasonal workers from the euro zone have been stopped, we now need to administer huge numbers of expensive and bureaucratic visas. Are the people coming from different places? Of course not. It's just made getting people more difficult and expensive. Increasing the cost of food to the customer.

    • S u
      S u Year ago +1

      Yeah but Bojo was happy

  • benjio77
    benjio77 Year ago +32

    Despite 6 years to think about it, the brexiteers couldn't think of a single brexit benefit- so the haunted pencil, Jacob Reese-Mogg, polled Express 'readers' for ideas. 2000 were rejected for being ridiculous, unworkable or plain illegal. The top two ideas? More fracking and less efficient vacuum cleaners.

  • CrazyDuckProductions
    CrazyDuckProductions 10 months ago +4

    I wonder how this debate would play out now...only 4 months later. If we don't feel as though the UK is in a decline now I don't when we will.

  • Jorrit Timmers
    Jorrit Timmers Year ago +9

    I feel it is brave of all panelists to participate in the debate. It is so important to have this debate in our living rooms as well

  • paul gilson
    paul gilson Year ago +32

    I genuinely can't think of one way it will benefit us, but can think of plenty it has hurt us.

    • EnglishroG
      EnglishroG Year ago +1

      The only thing I can think of is it gets the UK out of the ludicrous Common Agricultural Policy, a notorious and extremely expensive EU scheme that used to produce "wine lakes" and "butter mountains" and more recently has paid farmers for leaving their land uncultivated.

    • borderfox2
      borderfox2 Year ago +4

      @EnglishroG but where is the evidence of this ?

    • Remco Van Ek
      Remco Van Ek 10 months ago +3

      @borderfox2 there is none because it is untrue.

      GSTKING 9 months ago

      Escaping the left

    • paul gilson
      paul gilson 9 months ago

      @GSTKING what? You do know we have a left wing party in this country yeah?

  • h
    h Year ago +46

    the Eu has exploited ;" the Ireland Situation" (presumably he means NI although he does not say so!) How could the EU exploit a "situation" that the UK government forced the UK to accept (and THAT without any discussion or vote in our Parliament!

    • Toby Maltby
      Toby Maltby Year ago +7

      Iknowrite ?? All those EU bureaucrats meddling around at the Boyne in July 1690 ...

  • Gabs
    Gabs Year ago +28

    If you are pro trade and for open markets while doing this in a manner that is fair to the participants and the environment it inevitably ends in a common set of rules and regulation. A country needs to pool sovereignty with other countries to achieve this but note it’s pooling sovereignty not giving it away.
    This in essence is what these rabid idiots call a “political union”. The thing is that any form of highly integrated and sophisticated market will “feel” like a political union because to achieve this degree of frictionless trade, level playing field, and a long etc pooling sovereignty is necessary. But it’s not a political union. It’s never been.
    The contradiction of free market conservatives going agaisnt this can only be resolved in two ways:
    - they don’t care about the environment
    - they don’t care about the working classes
    Yes, it’s possible to sacrifice the set of rules and regulations by optimising any of the points above which was always their plan. “Optimising” means degrading rules and regulations that are there to protect the environment, the workers’ rights, and I would add SMEs to a lesser degree. If you remove all that yes you are sovereign and a free marketer but at what a cost to everyone else? I’m sure Daniel Hannan is not losing sleep because of this. He is not going to be the one footing the bill

    • Th W
      Th W Year ago +7

      This is wrong, the EU has always been a political Union and the UK ratified the treaties that made it so, albeit with several exemptions and extra rights etc.

    DAPPER 11 months ago +3

    I love Stella for this Debate. She has won me over. Whatever party she represents, I will follow

    • Fastertrack
      Fastertrack 11 months ago

      Which side was she again? Pro or anti-Brexit? Was a while ago when I watched this.

  • William Fence
    William Fence Year ago +9

    Irrespective of your politics I always thought division / hate and isolation is a poor substitute to communication / compromise and inclusion in all aspects of life. We had a voice and an influence in the decision making of a important part of the global market place and threw it away. Generations will never understand.

    • deanunio
      deanunio Year ago +1

      Australia, Canada, New Zealand all do fine not in a block. Can still compromise and communicate if you choose to

  • abel nicolae
    abel nicolae Year ago +192

    To sum up this debate, for all of you who don't want to lose their time: If you repeat a lie many, many times, it ends up becoming true... in your head. And since it's in your head, nobody can take that away from you. Cheers. :)

    • Ryu Hayabusa
      Ryu Hayabusa Year ago +7

      thank you for saving my time

    • Jim Herd
      Jim Herd Year ago +9

      The lie being that the EU was a good thing and it was worth being a member. Naturally.

    • Complex Altruist
      Complex Altruist Year ago +13

      @Jim Herd no

  • who cares
    who cares Year ago +17

    I wonder why countries are queuing to join the EU...

    • jim walker
      jim walker 6 months ago

      yes Serbia.Bosnia/hersagovinia.Albania.Montanegro.North macerdonia.Georgia Turkey was a candadate but withdrew.

    • Señor 404
      Señor 404 Month ago

      What's wrong with those countries?

    • who cares
      who cares Month ago +1

      @Señor 404 they have looked at how -ucked the uk is outside

  • phil spencelayh
    phil spencelayh 11 months ago +3

    If anyone thinks it was the right thing to do they mustn't have noticed the slide in standards of living in pretty much every aspect of our lives.

  • gerald aird
    gerald aird 10 months ago +5

    Daniel wasn't shoved into a den of lions, it was a den of liars. I noticed he has not mentioned his previous claim that it would be madness to leave the single market.

  • Airdog
    Airdog Year ago +27

    'When you're wrong, own up to what you didn't do right. That's how you learn and earn respect'. 🤗

  • David
    David 11 months ago +4

    Does Daniel not know that we... didn't leave the EU in 2016? Since actually leaving Kent *has* become a car park, growth *has* been far lower than comparable EU nations. It just happened in 20/21 rather than 16/17.

  • BD calling
    BD calling 2 months ago

    Never doubt the wise words of Daniel Hannan no one is questioning our position in the EU.

  • Larry Leker
    Larry Leker Year ago +10

    If you have to publicize that you were right to do something despite all evidence to the contrary, there's a word for that: DENIAL. And you will suffer the consequences whether you like it or not.

  • Kay Vengeance
    Kay Vengeance Year ago +11

    "I was told if I don't stop smoking, I won't live up to 30, now I'm 40, so I was right to continue smoking." Just because the worse case scenarios of Brexit did not materialise immediately doesn't mean they were wrong. It only meant the can could be kicked down the road.

  • Gordon Lam
    Gordon Lam Year ago +7

    If being independent is such a great thing, would Boris grant Scotland and Northern Island the rights to decide their own fates?

    • Christopher Chessum
      Christopher Chessum Year ago +1

      They've already been given that chance. They decided to stay.

    • Gordon Lam
      Gordon Lam Year ago

      @Christopher Chessum they now regret and want to have another chance.

    • Kev T
      Kev T Year ago

      Scotland argued that a hard border in N.I would be bad if we left the EU.
      Scotland would have the same issue.

    • Kev T
      Kev T Year ago

      ​@Gordon Lam I'm Scottish, no Scotland doesn't regret it, the SNP does.

    • Gordon Lam
      Gordon Lam Year ago

      @Kev T is SNP Scottish?

  • S u
    S u Year ago +51

    And that ladies and gentlemen is exactly why:
    1. Russian involvement was there to cause Brexit but had no effect.
    2. The DUP published adverts supporting Brexit twisting the argument but had no impact.
    3. The figure on the bus 🤣 was lies. But no impact.
    4. Since Brexit 4 years back we have already made a loss exceeding ALL the membership fees paid but ofcourse no impact.
    5. Bojo was getting a bojo leading Brexit.
    UK is at the brink of breaking up. But we were right to leave on lies. It's all good.

  • Jean Kaplan
    Jean Kaplan Year ago +22

    I ended up at the world premiere of Brexit The Movie at Leicester Square all those years ago (a professional affiliate gave me a pair of tickets), and Mr. Hannan was featured prominently. And even then I thought that what he was saying was either misrepresentations or outright nonsense. So many things have changed since then, but it's nice to see at least some things have remained the same.

    • TAHeap
      TAHeap Year ago +7

      Hannan can definitely be relied upon ... to be as wrong as possible on any given subject. There's probably a good reason why all his blogs for the 'Telegraph' were deleted wholesale around the time of the referendum!

    • mogznwaz
      mogznwaz Year ago +2

      You obviously don’t have a clue what you’re talking about

    • Phil James
      Phil James Year ago +3

      The man is a fool.

  • Teresa Johnson
    Teresa Johnson Month ago


  • Cat Monarchist
    Cat Monarchist Year ago +14

    England and Wales are less polarised than ever in terms of parties. Opinion polls swung wildly post-Brexit to the point where Tories were fourth at one point. Look at the Tory-labour share in the last year alone and these locals vs the last. Brexit smashed the traditional parties and has meant politics is more competitive with less loyalty to a party. That's a benefit of brexit (if unintentional).

    • Evola’s Sunglasses
      Evola’s Sunglasses Year ago

      We are moving past the clear Left v Right paradigm.

    • jim 99
      jim 99 Year ago +1

      If corbyn had been honest with himself, Labour would not of been wiped out in 2019!!

    • Jake l
      Jake l Year ago +1

      "Brexit smashed the traditional parties and has meant politics is more competitive with less loyalty to a party. That's a benefit of brexit"
      We've always had free and fair elections. Voters are loyal to parties because the parties represent them.

    DJ JHOS Year ago +38

    If we ( 🇬🇧) are the best model of democracy comparing to EU, let’s then allow Northern Irland and Scottish to choose their destiny …SCOTLAND INDEPENDENCE AND PROTECTION OF NI PROTOCOL THAT WESTMINSTER WANT TO SCRAP UNILATERALLY

    • Paul Aiello
      Paul Aiello Year ago +9

      As a Brit, I actually consider the UK and US democracy to be some of the weakest in the western world with its first past the post, mainly two party system and regional groupings which tends to ignore a lot of our votes.
      The EU isn't perfect but I have more faith in them then I do in the UK government with everything they've been going on the last 5 or so years.
      As for Scotland and Northern Ireland, a true democracy wouldn't have any issues with them having a voice on if they want to stay or leave and in fact should be able to have a voice at their choosing, clearly thought, we've got Westminster trying to dictate terms and block a referendum in Scotland and you have to wonder how would the Brexiteers react to that if the EU did the same to the UK on the Brexit referendum, I think they would go ape, but then the EU is a lot smarter than this current UK government.

    • DJ JHOS
      DJ JHOS Year ago +3

      @Paul Aiello spot on 👍🏽

    • William Stewart
      William Stewart 11 months ago

      YEP, and, as to the guy with the "yorkie" wife??? say it in good auld plain AngloSaxon!!! you know, inglish German!! like George!!! (German) Scotland was and IS right!!! ps(are we now in the UQ?????? tell me someone, just what is , e, (United) about this, er, (Upside down now) UQ??????????

  • Unoriginal Username
    Unoriginal Username Year ago +20

    I’d love to see where Dan got the idea that immigration isn’t an issue anymore essentially given the uk has taken in over a million immigrants last year.

    • jdg
      jdg Year ago +6

      Indeed. However the point of Brexit is that the government can no longer lie and blame the EU for it.
      That's what national democracy.

    • Unoriginal Username
      Unoriginal Username Year ago +3

      @jdg agreed although the point remains even tho the majority of immigrants came from outside the EU , while being a member we had no control over internal EU immigration. Now that we’ve left the Tory’s have no scapegoat when the public ask them to lower the number.

    • trevaudio
      trevaudio Year ago +8

      Danny boy also said it would be stupid for the uk to leave the single market…..he really has zero credibility and is best ignored !

    • sasserine
      sasserine Year ago +10

      @Unoriginal Username
      All EU member states have, and always had, control of immigration, even from other EU states.
      That is how France was able to veto travel from UK, when the UK government allowed COVID to go out of control, while still an EU member.
      The EU27 routinely apply tests for immigrants from other EU states, to prove they have savings to live on, or earning ability, and will repatriate workers whose jobs end during their stay.
      The UK governments refused to fund their Customs and Border Force, or use any of the tools at their disposal to control migrant workers.

    • Steven Redpath
      Steven Redpath Year ago +2

      The point about immigration is that it’s not an issue for the majority of people. The theory is that because we have gotten control people are not worried about it. The alternative argument is that because we don’t have politicians talking constantly that we can’t talk about immigration but here’s their opinions on it. Politicians still seem unable to differentiate between refugees and migrants as does those who wish to stoke up hatred against immigrants and refugees.

  • Andi McGaw
    Andi McGaw Year ago +5

    Daniel Hannan doesn't like facts and can't handle the truth. He even went after the host. That's what happens when you know you've lost

  • Dara O 'Rourke
    Dara O 'Rourke 11 months ago +5

    Nobody is talking about leaving the Single Market - Daniel Hannan.

  • Milo
    Milo Year ago +37

    The Uk's Consumer Price Inflation was 9.0% in May 2022 according to the ONS, not 6.7% as claimed by Hannan.

    • ʃuðɼinga ƿeoɼc
      ʃuðɼinga ƿeoɼc Year ago +3

      Look at the date he was dealing with.

    • PDVism
      PDVism Year ago +1

      Simon John hmm..... strange tho' that even while the EU countries had to deal with the pandemic as well that they seem to do a whole lot better economically. I wonder why that would be.
      Of course it can't have anything to do with Brexit, surely not, could it, perhaps?

  • Max Wild
    Max Wild Year ago +75

    “Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market”
    - Daniel Hannan MEP, 2015

    • P GUD
      P GUD Year ago +2

      Daniel knew his position was not the default one. He said this before the referendum.
      It became very clear that we could not stay inside the SM. SM membership is part of the EU treaties, and leaving the EU means ending the treaties. This is set out in article 50.
      you can keep whining about this but it makes no difference. It's just sour grapes.

    • Max Wild
      Max Wild Year ago +12

      @P GUD When did he say this? Could you provide a source?
      "It became very clear that we could not stay inside the SM."
      Nope, not correct. We could quite easily have stayed inside the SM. The EU offered as much.

    • P GUD
      P GUD Year ago

      @Max Wild Watch this very video and listen to what he SAYS.
      He explains it.

    • P GUD
      P GUD Year ago

      @Max Wild
      I am not interested in getting into any dispute and I have NO INTEREST in acceding to the EU.
      I will ignore ALL such attempts.

    • David Pryle
      David Pryle Year ago +5

      @Max Wild The U.K. had to leave the single market to stop free movement of labour. It’s why the working class voted to leave. It’s not that difficult to understand. There are more opinions than Daniel Hannan’s.

  • Dr. Neuwasserburg
    Dr. Neuwasserburg 9 months ago

    Yes, I have always said we are right to Brexit if the poor pay the Brexit price and we rich have our happy Brexit parties.

  • Les Thompson
    Les Thompson Day ago +1

    i vote it is for Brexit the choice we have is now our & not the "EU" For good Or Bad it our choice .

  • Thomas Jamison
    Thomas Jamison Year ago +25

    Brexit will exist in economic textbooks for many decades into the future as one of the most asinine economic decisions ever made.

    • jason kingshott
      jason kingshott Year ago

      The EU had many opportunities to change it's ways, it wouldn't and we all know what happened next.

    • Rejoin 2023
      Rejoin 2023 Year ago +3

      @jason kingshott Yes we do, they said screw you UK and they're doing very nicely without us.

    • jason kingshott
      jason kingshott Year ago

      @Rejoin 2023 You mean EU countries can make their own trading laws?

    • Thomas Jamison
      Thomas Jamison Year ago +2

      @jason kingshott Correct. They wisely chose not to let some small jerkwater island nation push them around and then let that same nation get out of the EU so it couldn't cause anymore stupid problems for the more advanced nations of the continent.

    • jason kingshott
      jason kingshott Year ago

      @Thomas Jamison ..and the consequence played out to the delighted democrats in the UK, everyone's a winner.

  • Albert
    Albert 11 months ago +6

    The rest of the world is laughing at (Brexit) Britain.

    • Albert
      Albert 11 months ago +1

      But from the Netherlands, we would love to have you back.

    • Xyle Black
      Xyle Black 5 months ago

      ​@Albert Same here from a German.
      But, you can laugh at the insane decision while simultaneously wanting the UK to reconsider it's course.

  • Big Hat Logan
    Big Hat Logan Year ago +9

    Leaving the EU was thoughtless and stupid

  • Marion Larkin
    Marion Larkin Year ago +16

    So good to listen to Dominic Grieve’s voice of reason again. I miss him and politicians like him. Good on you Stella ! What a wonderful speech she made and how well she can speak on the hoof.

    • Bruce Goodwin
      Bruce Goodwin Year ago +2

      I don’t miss his condescension. He believes his own rhetoric which is just as well given his grasp of facts is so poor.

    • Marion Larkin
      Marion Larkin Year ago

      @Lesley Willis Thank you Lesley for your reply. Do you not think that the voice of reason is always the voice of reason? Was the campaign carried out in a fair and free manner? Do you think referenda are the best way to come to a conclusion about something of such enormous consequence?

  • Julian Grant
    Julian Grant 11 months ago +1

    The most telling fact, was that when the result of the referendum was announced the brexiteers were in shock because they didn't think they would win. They (Johnson & Gove to name but two) then disappeared from view for a few days to work out how they were going to deal with the problem they'd created.
    It becomes increasingly clear that for many politicians it's all a bit of a game that they play because, as they are rich & privileged it's not going to affect them in any way.
    Brexit, contrary to what the brexiteers tell you, is not "done" - e.g. Northern Ireland protocol. Similarly we have not "Taken control of our borders" - we no longer have EU nationals coming to work here, so have a labour shortage, but have 1000s of boat people arriving who are not allowed to work & don't apparently have the required skills.
    To cap it all we have 2 contradictory comments (of course she had a consistent track record of changing both her party & her mind) from the 45 day prime minister:
    "I am backing remain as I believe it is in Britain's economic interest and means we can focus on vital economic and social reform at home. Liz Truss on twitter 1:01 PM · Feb 20, 2016
    "I made a judgement thinking that it (Brexit) would be bad for the economy. Since we've left it's been more positive, so the facts have changed and I've changed my mind... I believed there would be major economic problems, those haven't come to pass" Lizz Truss on BBC Daily Politics, October 11, 2017.
    Ah!..." no major economic problems" so I thought I'd create my own to make life more interesting, and then leave everyone else to pay the cost..

  • Ana Pombeiro
    Ana Pombeiro Year ago +13

    Where has this first speaker been living since 2016? The dooms day didn't happen but neither did the unicorns arrive, wait until border checks for goods coming from the EU are imposed as per WTO rules. Thank you DG for bringing some sanity to the floor.

  • Darío Saquetti
    Darío Saquetti 8 months ago +2

    The best outcome from Brexit is that "we should bring chefs from Bangladesh, no one is arguing that curry tastes better" 55:48 . Those far right extremists bring shame to themselves when they open their mouth.

  • Mikel Andonegi
    Mikel Andonegi Year ago +20

    Since this debate two big news have entered the debate :
    1 The Scottish official demand for a new referendum.
    2 the current account deficit number for the first semester of this year , which is 8.3 %…………..

    • drunkensailor112
      drunkensailor112 10 months ago +4

      And the UK economy is the only economy whose gdp in 2022 is still lower than in 2019. Yeah that's right even countries like Romania have recovered gdp past Corona.

    • stitch77100
      stitch77100 8 months ago +1

      @drunkensailor112 and at the beginning of 2023 too... (I believe Romania has though, good for them)

  • Steve Worrell
    Steve Worrell 11 months ago +13

    I wonder how this would have gone if this was done this week.

    • Red Dragon
      Red Dragon 11 months ago +2

      The harder the reality hits, the more concentrated the dose of gammon needs to be.

    • Kevin Willis
      Kevin Willis 9 months ago +2

      Hannan would still be spouting drivel, meanwhile, project reality is starting to dawn on the gammons..

  • Michael
    Michael Year ago +7

    I'm really grateful for Brexit. It made me realise how small-minded the UK had become and the great opportunities available to me by leaving. I'm nowliving in Portugal, with a new global mindset around me. I don't plan on returning home anytime soon. Britain's days are numbered, Scotland and N.Ireland are close to the precipice.

    • justin mifflin
      justin mifflin Year ago

      See you later then.👍

    • AppStratum
      AppStratum Year ago +1

      Likewise. For the same reasons. From another Brit boy in Portugal. ;-)

  • Peter Gaskin
    Peter Gaskin 21 day ago +1

    The fact that this nonsense is held under the label of something with Intelligence in its name made me spit coffee over my laptop screen. The whole moral of Brexit can be summed up as "be careful what you wish for".

  • michael edwardscarlton

    We are so , so so in trouble. This country has become a joke, we pay more attention to football teams than the state of this country.

  • Max Harbig
    Max Harbig 2 months ago +2

    Of course the UK was right to Brexit. The EU could not possibly be more grateful to it.

  • Bryter Later
    Bryter Later 10 months ago +1

    For most people it is a mistake, a few will have made a fortune on the back of misery caused to others.

  • EmiliaJojo
    EmiliaJojo Year ago +9

    If you have to say we were right to leave, you know there is something wrong.

    • David Green
      David Green Year ago +3

      That is a very weak and lazy argument.

    • EmiliaJojo
      EmiliaJojo Year ago +1

      @David Green if you listen to arguments you are certainly no brexiteer

    • David Green
      David Green Year ago +3

      @EmiliaJojo That is ridiculous. One must always have an open mind in case you are wrong. The facts are proving every day that Brexit was not wrong.
      The EEC was a great organization, but what arrived in 1992 is an international joke.

    • Gertjan
      Gertjan Year ago

      Left so right

  • Alistair Newton
    Alistair Newton 8 months ago +2

    The majority of people voted to leave the EU because of migration both legal & illegal, we have now left the EU ? and illegal migration has increased, our political classes are not fit to be the gatekeepers of fair-equitable society.

  • william T
    william T Year ago +2

    What a great debate

  • sch treg
    sch treg Year ago +5

    The fact that this has to be debated (and that the title wasn't more accurately "Brexit: The dumbest decision in modern British history") speaks volumes on how delusional this country still is.

  • Anders Hoegild
    Anders Hoegild Year ago +18

    Amazing! 10 seconds in, and the Brexiteer manages to insult the audience AND declare, that they are against him! Done in a debate, where he tries to persuaded them that he is a good guy, doing the right things! Dont they teach rhetorics in posh English schools?

    • Mightypi
      Mightypi Year ago

      He did have a very good go at it.

    • Shankar Sivarajan
      Shankar Sivarajan 8 months ago +1

      He was right: they were 2 to 1 against him.

  • FP P
    FP P 11 months ago

    Funny how it is suggested that in Britain everyone felt happy with the pandemic solution.

  • John Doe
    John Doe Year ago +48

    It seemed like there was a lot of disagreement on what the actual facts were.

    • DrCruel
      DrCruel Year ago +1

      It also seems that this "debate" was something of a set-up.

    • Mike Fish
      Mike Fish Year ago +9

      I suspect the disagreement on facts is largely due to the difficulty of deconvolving COVID from BREXIT, cherrying picking on both sides and the relatively short time period since BREXIT actually happened due to politicians spending significant time trying to not undertake the task given to them by the British public.

    • George C
      George C Year ago +2

      @Mike Fish Well said, Mike.

    • Velcro
      Velcro Year ago +7

      @Mike Fish You mean the British electorate. The "British Public" is a little vague in my opinion and gives the impression that a majority of the British wanted Brexit...which is obviously untrue.

    • Mike Fish
      Mike Fish Year ago +3

      @Velcro By the same token, you could say the majority of the British public didn't want to stay in the EU. It's a slippery slope to say that because the majority of all human beings with a state didn't vote for a particular action it is illegitimate. If you didn't vote you probably didn't care either way, abstention isn't a vote against.

  • Bob_01
    Bob_01 Year ago +4

    I love educated and fair discussions on this topic, but seeing the dislikes and comments made me not watch this video. I know these guys will find ways to cope and live in their own reality. I want to be optimistic about the future of this country but I also like to live in reality and see the world the way it really is.

  • Bill Davies
    Bill Davies Year ago +6

    Johnson recognised in his alternative article that the UK should be "intimately engaged" with the EU. He recognised the economic shock that would be sustained by leaving, and that it could lead to the break-up of the United Kingdom. He wrote that membership to the single market came with a "small membership fee". And then he thought, "What do my paymasters want."

    • Attack Pattern Delta
      Attack Pattern Delta Year ago +1

      “Boris Johnson is a politician that waits to see the way the crowd is running and then dashes in front.”
      - Michael Hesteltine

  • YoungestKeith
    YoungestKeith 11 months ago +1

    "Support for the Union Rose after the referendum" - the SNP still take most the seats in Scotland and have done since the referendum. They constantly campaign for a referendum post brexit and are constantly turned down. So we are about 4 minutes in and Daniel has already started the mistruths.

  • Andy greenhalgh
    Andy greenhalgh 8 months ago +1

    The brexit argument seems to be, we can do things we could already do.

  • Sal
    Sal Year ago +30

    At the bottom of this comment is the Office for National Statistics most recent report on the impacts of COVID and Brexit on the economy.
    Generally speaking, it's difficult to quantify to what degree the negative impacts are due to the pandemic and to Brexit. What we do know is that Brexit heavily exasperated critical issues and created new issues.
    Employment shortages in all essential industries, especially at a time when we were most reliant on them, I.e. healthcare and logistics shortages. Brexit issues were more in the nature of, new bureaucracy at the boarder heavily dragging the time to get products into the UK, historical European labour in the form of lorry drivers, nurses, and seasonal workers etc. absent from the UK market, the loss of competitive advantage on European business in the financial sector, and years of uncertainty around Brexit stifling business decision making and investment. COVID issues were more: global slow down of manufacturing, particularly in China, a sudden decline in global demand and price for crude oil and gas followed by a polar opposite dramatic increase in the demand and price for crude oil and gas (then further exacerbated by sanctions on Russia). Both heavily contribute to the current state of things in the UK. Stock market performance was high mainly due to Technology performance (McKinsey's Covid-19 Impact on Capital Markets)
    Important fact, the UK is a service economy, which is our main export. 80% of the UK economy is in Services so impacts to that industry have a more major impact on output.
    Also, when things like low unemployment and house price increasing are mentioned in the context of this debate, it's a red herring.
    Unemployment is low, yes, but for the first time since records began there are more vacancies than unemployed people (ONS, uklabourmarket/may2022). That means the economic failure is the pool of available labour. You would usually address this with incentives in immigration policies.
    The increase in prices in the housing market should just never be mentioned as something successful in the UK market, it's actually quite insulting. Housing increase are not happening because of healthy economic activity and wealth generation, it's being pushed by an extreme demand of housing and a low supply. There are two problems here. 1) People need a place to live and buying a home is always a good investment, so we encourage people to buy a house and try to make it accessible, for instance Help to buy scheme. 2) on the flip side, the main issue with housing is the lack of supply and availability, without addressing the supply issue adequately, increasing the demand for housing is causing a rat race and driving prices up insanely quickly. Now the thing is the main winners in this scenario are landlords. Even as a homeowner, you can sell your home and get the money to buy a new place, but from a money point of view, you would probably need to use that money to buy a new house which is just as expensive, so in order to up size, you would need to put in more capital.
    I will say, the government is currently going through policies that aim to help the supply issue, but at the same time, housing construction needs to become more competitive, which it isn't. We also need to shift housing construction to a manufacturing style as this improves quality and speed at the cost of more upfront capital from the companies. The incentive to do this just isn't there in the UK.
    (ONS, impacts of EU Exit and Corona, Nov 2021)
    I just want to add, Brexit was never really an economic debate it was an emotional one. The UK was in a deep state of discontent (rightly so) but that energy was focused on the EU.

    • Ó Luinneacháin
      Ó Luinneacháin Year ago +3

      Excellent analysis of current economic situation. 👏🏼

    • Alvan Rigby
      Alvan Rigby Year ago +5

      The way to alleviate labour shortages should be greater labour participation, reduction in underemployment and training of local people - NOT increasing immigration as the first option!

    • k
      k Year ago +6

      @Alvan Rigby there you go nothing like a xenophobe to simplify a complex problem reducing it to forrrrreigners. You are not alone however as you lot were the ones that made Brexit win

    • Alvan Rigby
      Alvan Rigby Year ago +5

      @k Sour grapes. Also contempt for Democratic values. And when you have lost the argument you revert to slurs.

    • Ezio Auditore
      Ezio Auditore Year ago +5

      @Alvan Rigby Educating your own people to get better paid jobs is a very good thing to do. But what's with the jobs where you need no high education? The ones with low paymemt. Who will work in these jobs? Typical a country fills these jobs with immigrants. At some point a society depends on a certain amount of immigration, because its not 'producing' low educated workers itself.

  • who cares
    who cares Year ago +30

    Now we have less people in work
    Now we have High inflation
    Now we have a pound worth 20% less
    Now we have food wastage
    Now we have travel restrictions
    Now we have shortages
    Now we must trade with countries 10000 miles away
    Now we have worker shortages

    • rugbykiwi9
      rugbykiwi9 Year ago +1

      unemployment is at the lowest it has ever been in 50 years you fool. Get your facts before commenting. So how can you say we have less people in work?

    • who cares
      who cares Year ago +11

      @rugbykiwi9 unemployment is low, BUT there are less people in work, oh dear i am going to have to explain , people have taken early retirement , this is unsustainable , this is like talking to children.....

    • rugbykiwi9
      rugbykiwi9 Year ago

      @who cares please enlighten us on why employment is the lowest it has been in 50 years but less are working. Has there been a huge population decrease that no one knows about?

    • rugbykiwi9
      rugbykiwi9 Year ago

      And let me talk about inflation. What about 1975, inflation was extremely high and uk had just joined the eu? In fact the inflation between 1975 and 1990 was on average higher than after we left the eu. You are embarrassing yourself here, please stop trying and go back to school.

  • ffi1001
    ffi1001 Year ago +3

    Is this the same Daniel Hannan who said we should have stayed in the single market? Oh ok

  • Ryan S
    Ryan S Year ago +38

    Absolutely delighted that Pierluigi Collina managed to find work after leaving Italian football :)

  • Candy Worner
    Candy Worner Year ago +3

    Glad to see you have an audience again. Your videos were horribly boring without the audience!!!

  • Pavlin Petkov
    Pavlin Petkov 29 days ago +2

    The UK spat in the face of its European partners. That's what Brexit was.

  • Heart Of Darkness
    Heart Of Darkness 9 months ago +5

    After all that's happened, and will continue to happen, they still insist we're better off, though their audience grows smaller as reality intrudes.
    You're looking at the very definition of "denial".

  • Ste Mill
    Ste Mill 7 months ago +2

    "I'm rather be in a democratic country than in a multinational empire"
    ...isn't it Britain who is the wannabe empire?

  • Brian MacAdam
    Brian MacAdam Year ago +23

    The UK economy fell farther than the EU and even with the "fastest rise" is STILL 12% behind

    • Simon Dahl
      Simon Dahl Year ago +6

      Yes and it only had the fastest rise because it had the biggest fall the year earlier.

    • ooook
      ooook Year ago +1

      The UK economy is higher Vs pre-pandemic compared to any large European country. Comparing the UK to the whole of the EU is silly.

    • From the Ashes
      From the Ashes Year ago

      @oook a little knowledge is a dangerous thing

    • ooook
      ooook Year ago

      @From the Ashes Then you should tell that to the OECD that stated it.

  • Anindya Majumdar
    Anindya Majumdar 8 months ago +1

    Yes quite! The first pro Brexit compares the "debate" to Manchester city or United playing away or Ian Botham playing cricket. The perfect comparison to make with the trading chaos caused by supermarket shortages and the logistics chaos caused by coming out of the single market and the Customs union. What is a little puzzling , is what football and cricket has to do with the rising costs of living, which was all predicted would happen by some remainers with the knowledge of how Economics works!

  • Spiritual Anarchist
    Spiritual Anarchist Year ago +16

    That third speaker is saying he was surprised that 'The E.U was such fierce negotiater because Britain is their 'main protector. ' . That doesn't make any sense. By leaving the E.U, Britain became the economical competition of the E.U .So offcourse they negotiated hard.

    • Christopher Chessum
      Christopher Chessum Year ago +1

      He didn't actually say that. Listen again. Moreover, economies compete even within the EU.

  • IntelligentArtifice
    IntelligentArtifice Year ago +9

    The supreme act of British Self Harm.

  • colin stephenson
    colin stephenson Year ago +45

    Hannan says we can do things different, the EU has said all new devices requiring USB power connections have to be universal, Mr Johnson said the UK won’t follow the EU , the manufacturers will make all their new products comply , why ? , because 600 m EU potential customers trumps Johnson’s 64 m customers,

    • Steven Rogers
      Steven Rogers Year ago +2

      So Johnson has said he won't force UK companies to comply, they have the freedom to decide for themselves, which they have now done?

    • David Warburton-Burley
      David Warburton-Burley Year ago +19

      @Steven Rogers The point is Brexit achieved nothing because the UK remains within the EU's sphere of influence. The UK just lost any say in EU the decisions that affect it

    • Steven Rogers
      Steven Rogers Year ago +3

      Brexit achieved nothing because British companies have had the freedom to choose to whether or not they follow EU rules? Interesting logic there.

    • AppleSauce
      AppleSauce Year ago +7

      @Steven Rogers British companies have that choice whether the UK is part of the EU or not. If they don't comply with EU regulations they cannot sell there.
      The main difference is that the UK has no say on what regulations are implemented in the EU now.

    • Steven Rogers
      Steven Rogers Year ago +2

      @applesauce British companies dont choose if the UK is in the EU or not, they have chosen to comply with EU regulation so they can sell to EU customers. But UK companies dont have to make products according to EU regulation. Say a new company sets up in the UK to sell goods or services to Japan or South Korea, or China, in the future, that company is not constrained by EU legislation to make the product in a certain way. The company is free to make a product which suits its intended market. Savvy?

  • Arthur Metaxas
    Arthur Metaxas 10 months ago +1

    That these people will not acknowledge what a disaster brexit has been says it all

  • Milo
    Milo Year ago +12

    Daniel Hannan is the most disingenous Brexit whisperer.

  • Jon Cornwell
    Jon Cornwell Year ago +2

    Love the double meaning of the proposition

  • Luna
    Luna 9 months ago

    Such fun to watch Britain's slow demise from the safety of the EU.

  • Shaun H
    Shaun H Year ago +10

    Interesting how the two journalists in the audience (BBC and The Express) were unable to articulate questions in a Q&A session and just made lengthy statements outlining their personal experiences / worldview.

  • Bayerberg (szydera.org)

    Heres an idea - publish all source data on subjects included in your statements. Things will become clear to anyone willing to spend the time to dig through the facts. Take a guess which side bends the truth and which blatantly lies.

    • An Capone
      An Capone Year ago +3

      Well, both of them. They just lie in different ways about different things.

    • EngineeringVision
      EngineeringVision Year ago +8

      You can't because they are debating current reality against a hypothetical alternative history where the UK was still in the EU. It's almost impossible to remove the massive inflationary effects of the printed relief money, the worldwide production shortages, the war in Ukraine and the pandemic itself from the model as those are such impactful economic events. Even if you could it wouldn't actually matter because leave is generally regarded to give the best economic prospects in the medium to longer term, and remain in the short to medium term. So if you're 85 then Brexit doesn't make much sense but if you're 25 then it does even though those groups effectively voted for each others best interests!

    • Damian bylightning
      Damian bylightning Year ago

      @EngineeringVision Best joke is that Plaid Cymru lark about making it an offence for a politician to tell lies - we're seriously wasting parliamentary time and resources on this. Why do we have people like Liz Saville Roberts (PC) elected to Parliament?

    • T W
      T W Year ago

      Our language is as bent as the minds that navigate it... everything is loopholed into a bendable subject able nothingness... we can say and do anything and get away with it if we know how to, so i take it we can walk away from this subject now?

  • Yatata
    Yatata Year ago +3

    anyone else notice the worst "questions" were from reporters

  • sleepingtoss
    sleepingtoss Year ago +22

    Really well organized and moderator did a great job.

    • DrCruel
      DrCruel Year ago +1

      Did he now. I can speculate what that "job" was.

    • Life in the Old Dog
      Life in the Old Dog Year ago +1

      @DrCruel tend to agree, his unnecessary apocryphal comment re immigration at the end rather nailed his colours to the mast

  • ᚹᚣᚷ • ᛒᚱᛁᛏᚣᚻᚻᛁᛈᚣ

    1:04:00 it doesn't matter if no one wants it, what matters is if it would benefit us. When you find out we would benefit greatly, we must then seek to convince the masses.

  • Douglas
    Douglas Year ago +7

    There are two difficulties with determining this answer based on economic measures alone:
    1) Which data is relevant to Brexit rather than any other issue such as falling use of petrochemicals, Covid panicdemic, aging population.
    2) How is it right to interpret that data? Should you look at a snapshot, at several snapshots, compared to the EU, compared to the world, related to pre-2016 trends (were things already going up or down), etc.
    The real economic position is hard to know. And like the Irish wanting independence from the UK, the economic outcome is only a small part of the question is really about economics. The Irish can see they are poorer for having left the UK but they are generally happier with their lives. Money isn't everything. British values, particularly as major emigres to the world and as a nation with deep links right around the world, align more with interacting with nations around the world than it does with restricting ourselves to only our European friends. That is why Britain enjoyed being part of the EEC but started having difficulties as soon as Maastricht had been signed (which is when we should have been asked by poll if we wanted to be a part of the proposed EU).
    So to those wondering "What are the economic data?" I would say: they are a mish-mash of what the two sides say BUT does 1% here or there really matter? Or are there things in life which are more important that such details?

    • Raghavendra Rao
      Raghavendra Rao Year ago +5

      It's not the 1% that people are worried about, it's the farmers, fishermen, small businesses, haulers closing shop. The seasonal workers from Europe driving fully loaded trucks, picking fruits, selling fresh fish cannot be replaced by a 2 month long visa process for a 4 month job. There are statistics and there is on the ground hard reality.

    • mogznwaz
      mogznwaz Year ago


    • Mactastic
      Mactastic Year ago +2

      The economic position is not hard to know as there have been extensive models created that take into account the variables that you've mentioned. You'll be hard pressed to find a serious economist that thinks Brexit was a sound path to take from a financial perspective.

    • Raghavendra Rao
      Raghavendra Rao Year ago +1

      @Mactastic Yes, indeed, but wasn't this slid under the carpet as Project fear rather than saying Yes, this is a fact, you will suffer economically but we still want it.

    • alex waddelove
      alex waddelove Year ago +2

      The Republic of Ireland is richer than Northern Ireland. What are you talking about when you say they are poorer?

  • Simon1632
    Simon1632 9 months ago +6

    How stupid we were to leave the union. We shot ourselves in the foot.

    • Carlmaster96
      Carlmaster96 8 months ago

      No, we didn't! We did going in though