I mean the dude is on par with legendary authors writing skills. Effortless deductions, i kinda wish I had insight like that but noooooo, i need my hand held to understand basic character writing like this.
It's a weird trend with lots of writers in videogames and cinema to write strong female "girl bosses" as awful people. It says more about the writers themselves than anyone else
@Blue Flare seeing what happened with that one spice academy Crunchyroll original, it's just bad writers period. Doesn't matter if they're male or female. And also I'd argue that women are different from men and should be written with that in mind (because a male protagonist in a female body isn't good writing either), but most people just do it wrong
@Deffrança But black of woman characters isn't forced diversity. If every playable character is a white dude it just gets stale, even from a purely esthetic standpoint
plot twist, Cuff is probably going to go down a good guy path but the whole game happened while he's attached to someone like Frey, therefore he decided to "ah fuck it, I'll just go goof-o-mode after all"
@Oniplus I've seen other comments joke about that too. And yeah. I would want to destroy the world too if I had to be attached to some rude, selfish, annoying loudmouth. And since I don't give enough of a shit about this game to look up the REAL twist (seriously I only remember this game even exists because I keep getting replies on videos about it lmfao), that's just going to be my own headcanon now. Lol
@Zombified Pariah what if he became a villain after being fed up from getting stuck with Frey for the whole game, I mean, I will too if I had to listen to Frey being snarky every 10 seconds
Literally all of the cuff's dialogue before the twist and the final boss is just him trying get Frey to stop being such a shitty person. I still don't quite understand how he's supposed to be the villain.
@Monke Monkerson two words: Luminous Engine There’s a reason why Square abandoned that engine that was originally going to be for Kingdom hearts 3 and FF7 Remake (in fact they had to restart production for that game because they moved from Luminous to Unreal)
The woman who voices the main character needs a new agent. She now has whatever tf this is, the Charlie’s angels remake, and Netflix’s Resident Evil show on her resume.
The Modern AAA Game Dev’s Guide to writing a Totally Hip Character: - Swears excessively in pretty much every sentence. - Asshole towards everyone she encounters (usually until they do something that benefits them) - Shoehorned sad backstory - *qUiRkY*
the swearing isn't the main problem, the problem is that it doesn't fit most of the time like the quotes are written sooOOOO baaad... it least make it sound like the character actually swears on a regular basis, not like you just told a toddler how to say fuck and they're trying to merge the word into their vocabularies
spoilers ahead: i love how the only fairly reasonable character that's manageable to sit through speaking, while also maintaining a good moral compass is the cufflink that also decides to betray Frey.
Reminds me of Santa inc. saw a review of it and the speech Santa gave to that elf as to why he didn't pick her as a successor made me go "That's actually a pretty valid reason, this is a good speech, is this the turning point where this becomes good?" And the elf's response was "F U" like WHAT it was a genuinely good reason, there's no reason to respond that agressivley
@António Nova Every souls game has a random guy who got thrown into a world for some reason, but he rises up and ultimately becomes the most powerful dude in that world. I think it’s great writing
@Cpt.CornNut Those are normal difficulty fights. And they are also bosses. The problem is when normal respawning enemies become damage sponges, especially if they are not even threatening to the player.
@óscar rivera abal Midir, Fire Giant, every single mmo boss, anything in destiny 1 or 2. We could list them all day. Worst of all is when they cam 1 or 2 shot you, and have a mile long health bar.
For real ,i rather have enemies that 2 hit kill me but arent a fucking sponge, nothing lazier and more annoying that fights that are 15 minutes of doing the same shit until the enemy dies.
Even if they kept the "twist" of cuff betraying frey, It would have been better if he just kept his personality. Like he breaks free from her and is like "You were given a second chance to start over and you've squandered it. You don't deserve my power or to be here any longer." And then goes after her.
I'd even love it if Cuff wasn't an evil demon -- just an entity summoned by the local dude to destroy Athia and obligated by the pact to do so. This means Cuff doesn't want to destroy the world, he *has to do it* if he wants to go home. That could have been a nice parallel to Frey and her recent "I don't care if this world burns" temper tantrum.
You’re gonna have to blame men for not knowing how to write a normal person whos strong and independent, because they are a woman 🤣🤣 imagine being so incapable of a simple task 💀💀
Both characters dialogue was comically hamfisted. About the level of nuance i'd expect from thomas the tank engine, except the train show has better facial animations so I'm kinda doing thomas dirty
The cuff dude was the only likable character. So the writers had to make him disney style evil to make it so that the main character looked like she was in the right the whole time being a piece of shit towards him for no reason the whole game.... While all he did was offer actually great advice, and reasonable responses to her bullshit. Like. The dude was the ONLY GOOD CHARACTER. So good the writers LITERALLY had to completely change his character for the plot.
"Oh no, player, you're supposed to like Frey, not him! That's it, he is a villain now! You've been sympathizing with a villain the whole time, player! Serves you right for not trusting our heroine!"
I honestly thought they were gonna reveal that the Cuff was her father this whole time and the other half which he merged with was his memories. But that would have been too good for these writers.
And plus that would have meant having a male character who's not weak or pathetic like the rest of the few male characters in here. Typical of modern entertainment.
Would've been cliched and cheesy, but that's genuinely 100x better than having something that doesn't make sense and is so obviously just done for le subverting expectations.
The writers conflate "confidence" with "arrogance". They project their perceptions of strong male stereotypes onto a female frame and the result is a peek into their state of mind.
@Fully Suave Yeah everything the OG Dante wasn't. He's not really edgy aside from his taste in music and clothing. Despite being cynical, he makes jokes and actually tries to help people. Plus when he roasts someone he doesn't sound like a edgy teen. Plus I thought Vergil hates gun.
@Zion Leach i say better writing could have saved that game from being doomed as a one-off. Dante's writing of being a narcistic confident prick having no development and just being a shitchild towards everyone really hurt the game as a whole
this is not a 2023 problem, the DmC: Devil May Cry's Dante is literally Frey but a dude, it was just as bad then than it is now but at least DmC is good to play
The problem with Frey as a character can be summed up in 3 sentences: "I hate this place, I'm alone with no one who cares for me, I wanna leave, but I'm trapped here because I don't wanna walk." *Okay, I will magically transport you someplace far, far away from here to a world filled with magic where you will be powerful enough to do whatever you wanna do and you will have a companion to talk to, who will never leave you.* "I hate it here, I don't wanna be friends with this companion, I wanna go back to that place I hate where I'm powerless and feel trapped." I just cannot believe that the company that produced the story of Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced and it's protagonist could also produce a similar story about being transported to another world, but with a terribly unlikable character like Frey. I understand not wanting to tell the same story twice, but Frey is just too much. Marche worked because even though he loved the new world, he understood he shouldn't try to escape his problems, sp he wanted to go back. Frey is just like, I hate where I come from and I hate this new world too. Why? No reason, I just do. Send me back so I can keep hating Some people disliked Marche because they themselves would never choose a normal reality, and that was position many of the main characters expressed in the story. But Marche wasn't hated or completely unlikable because he had good, sensible reasons for wanting to change the world back to normal and he frequently struggled with himself about whether he should or not. To go from that to Frey just being flatout unlikable as a character is just... how? How? HOW? SQUARE ENIX, TELL ME HOW? I just don't understand. Spoiler edit: Just saw the last part. Yeah, Cuff betrayed her but I didn't know he would do that... and Frey didn't either 🤣 Oh someone you disliked for no reason betrayed you? Well, you didn't exactly make it a hard choice for him and you wanted him gone anyway, so...
@AsuraTheBass The problem isn't that Frey isn't allowed to be stressed out or angry about something. She is allowed -- emotions are great! They provide depth and reliability to the character. Emotions are used to show what character likes, how they hide their vulnerability, how they respond to stress, where they find solace. Bad writing is the problem. She is incredibly inconsistent: one moment, she is extremely happy and excited about having magic powers and using them to the point of flaunting them, and then she is angry and rude lashing out at literally everyone despite clearly needing help and guidance in that new world (especially if she wants to find her way back home). It's possible for the character to be mad about their predicament, it's impossible to literally stay angry at everything and everyone around them unless they're on the verge of a breakdown or hysteria. Also, even Frey's initial conversations with Auden sound unnatural: people thrust into her situation would use this opportunity to talk to a friendly face to more information, explain their predicament and ask if there is a way to convince their leader lady that they're not a demon, so there is no need to imprison and execute them. However, Frey complains about her life, follows Auden because food and tries to leave even though Auden is the only person who defended her in the court, risked herself to free her and the source of valuable information (did she really expect to navigate her way through the place without knowing its customs, terminology and NOT get caught by the guard again?). Her attitude doesn't make sense from both rational and emotional point of view. Moreover, if writers planned Cuff to be the antagonist, letting Frey connect with Cuff and befriend him, make them go from reluctant companions to friends would be the most logical thing to do because Cuff's villainous reveal was supposed to hurt. Instead, it fell flat because there was no bond to sever, no trust to betray. They didn't even use the delicious opportunity to hint at Cuff's darker side and make him partially responsible for Frey's behavior via intruding into her memories or giving her constant nightmares, making her exhausted and paranoid -- which is a great shame.
@Super Bodoque Everyone only thinks he's annoying or cringe or for kids because that's how he's been written in the games for like over a decade now. But anyone who actually bothered playing the games from the 2000s would realize that he actually used to be a decent character and even mature and cool.
I would like do add how groan inducing it is that once the cuff’s true nature is revealed, he starts talking all big and domineering. It’s the most generic villain thing and honestly it would have been so much more chilling if he kept his calm, soft spoken demeanour post-turn.
@Poker Face right! Like the fact that it doesn't fit the plot or his character is what's bothersome to me, I don't hate the generic trope of the collected character turning snarky once they become villain but it needs to make sense
Yeah, Cuff remaining his collected and polite self would fit his aesthetic a lot more. It would be even cooler if he didn't try to kill Frey and instead brushed her off as an insignificant insect or a buzzing fly. Would have shown how little he thinks of her. Also, it could be really cool if Cuff was the one to offer to transport Frey back to her world as a condescending "thanks" for liberating him and finally letting him fulfill what he was summoned for (and go back to his own dimension after he is done). He could even throw Frey's own words back at her: "Wasn't it you who said "I don't care if this world burns?", Frey? A bit too late to pretend that you care, don't you think? " For Frey, accepting the offer would mean accepting Cuff's low view of her and essentially losing to him. Meanwhile, rejecting his offer and going against the odds would have shown her growth and defiance, and that Cuff wasn't right about her.
I honestly believe that a character being abrasive and crass at the beginning works so long as you can see their progress and hold redeemable traits. The writers could have made some small choices to help us like Frey, like maybe fleshing out Frey and Cuffs bond. Maybe have a fun mutual roast deal between the two. Have Frey insist that it's her magic, and then get Cuff to briefly cut the power in the middle of a low stake fight which leads to Frey appreciating cuff and growing accustomed to working with someone. Also give Frey better witty humor. A dick that complains is annoying, A funny dick complaining however is entertainment. Edit: Finished the video and doubling down on what I said. The twist would have hit so much harder if Frey had a connection to cuff
You know what’s even more depressing? Aside from the existence of this game? People like the MC actually exists in real life… and believe they are the good guys and can rightfully and justified to fuck over everyone 😢
Gotta love how both Pyro and Charlie each predicted two of the biggest final act plot twists RIGHT off the bat (Cuff being a twist villain and the Dragon being protag’s mother) because this game’s story is the most predictable trope filled crap and its definition of subtlety is 3 clichés in a trench coat.
Devs: *Make as unlikable character as it is humanely possible* Players: *Do not like the character* Devs: "people just doesn't understand and want depth from characters nowdays*
if they made her like cuff and get along as friends, or he lied and said he was her father and built a relationship so she trusted him, the twist would have been a lot more powerful i think
a gross common theme in writing strong and powerful characters (especially in woman) is unintentionally making them assholes. Writers don’t know how to create these characters and end up correlating harsh and insensitive with girl boss. Its infuriating to see a character with genuine potential be thrown away because the writers think that making them be mean will make them ‘cooler’
I’ve literally wrote my whole life, I love writing! I have followed multiple writing courses and have two whole scripts ready (plus multiple stories) but I’ve been refused because I need to have 5 years of writing studies(?) or a writing degree. And then I see this or other shit on Netflix with horrible writing and feel really depressed because these degrees cost SO MUCH and you don’t have a guaranteed career after.
There is horrible writing everywhere, don’t let it discourage you. The people need good writing. Getting a script picked up is probably extremely difficult.
"This is all YOUR fault." "Oh, and tell me how exactly this is my fault." "... Can we just NOT talk?" 10/10 on how to shift the blame to someone else illogically. What a likeable main character.
I think we should call it the new guy syndrome ( New guy meme ) where the writer makes a character believing they are good guys because they are self inserts but the whole world around them see them as bad people, because they haven't had the chance to learn about morality in real life, they cannot portray it in art
@Pan the Man That is true but at that point in my opinion her turnaround is too abrupt and quick that it feels unnatural. All in all I really feel sad because I was looking forward to try this game out, but having a character like that would really take me out of the experience. I'm glad that I could clear it out. Have a good day
@Jacob Bager Oh, makes sense. Frey only became a decent human once she discovered her mom didn't leave her and that mistreating someone might end up pissing off an archdemon who nearly kills her, but beforehand, she... was just a dick.
@Pan the Man The syndrome is that the artist of the comic puts their view on their main character (the lady) thinking they are the good and moral person in the story when in reality they are not and are surprised when the outside world react in the way that they want it to. I just feel like it's the same thing we see here with the way the main character in forspoken is portrayed. I don't know if I explain that well enough here but I hope it helped.
@Zombified Pariah That one’s already been pointed out about quite a bit. Plus his reaction there is more “composed angry confusion” than “dying and babbling confusion.”
@Johnny SaleryWhy are you acting like that would have helped at all? Nobody is gonna like your protagonist if they're an ass for most of the story. How is that so hard to understand?
It's gotta be bad if someone as woke as Charlie can't comprehend it. Still, this game is hilarious for doing it and I'm glad it was released. Meme material.
It reminds me of YIIK, where the protagonist is purposefully written to be unlikeable, but they forgot to add more humanizing moments thru out to make you actually care what happens to them.
Thing is about YIIK. Its a comedy so its ok if the characters an asshole as long as the joke falls on him being a terrible person. (At least i think its a comedy, i fell asleep when i watching a walkthrough)
the fact that pyro and critikal are both so amazed by the auto-picking up items, like it's not a mechanic that existed in games since the dawn of time, it's crazy. my brother in christ, that's literally just like walking over ammo boxes in Quake 1
@Blue199 While picking up things automatically is not a new feature in a sense, comparing old school shooting games to open world style games like they are the same is kinda dumb. You think Charlie/Pyro don't know about running over items to pick them up? Reaaally? Reaaaaaally? It's more a comment of the fact in AAA Open World games, typically you have to stop and gather the herbs or carve an animal with an animation and how refreshing it is to not do that.
The part where she calls an ancient evil demon a “gaslighting piece of shit” was so hilarious, this game wants to appeal to the tik tok demographic so hard
Finally a game that can chip-off Charlie's sanity away piece by piece. Watching his sanity slowly drifting off as the game progress towards the end gave me immeasurable joy.
I love how whoever planned the game difficulty thinks more health = more difficult. It doesn’t make them more difficult when their ai hasn’t been changed at all…they just become a nuisance to fight because they take forever to kill.
So she doesn't give a shit about people who welcomed her, a complete stranger, with open arms and instead she wants to go back to new York where she's homeless, alone and has a gang after her. Makes sense.
@Tabellarium they could've done something better with it like what you said, her having an existential crisis and depressive episodes over how shitty existence in general is, but ultimately I feel like she would still wanna go back to a much simpler safer life in our world, maybe up until later on in the story where she'd have a more personal connection to the fantasy world and it's people, giving her something to live and fight for
@Jonathan Pilcher Something important to note that isn't shown in this video is that she was seemingly about to unalive herself just before going to the other world. So, from her own perspective life in New York is so horrible she'd rather be dead. I really don't see why she would ever have a desire to go back there, no matter how bad this new world is. The most I could see happening is her falling into an extreme depression over both worlds being so horrible to her.
lmfao She apologizes to Homer after choosing to save Athia instead of returning to New York but like, didn't she give the cat to the judge after the fire? Did she just forget she did that?
I love how early on they get to a point were she tells the cuffs to stop talking. They both agree to not talk. Then like 3 seconds later they're both talking again
Repent to Jesus Christ “Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”” Matthew 19:26 NIV Y
It's the unapologetic, selfish "like me as I am", cause I'm cool, trope, without developing any likeable characteristics, to make you root for the protagonist, as the story moves along. There's no honor, no altruism, or humility, just, arrogance, selfishness, victimhood, and entitlement.
I love how the character 6 hours in is like " There is no place like home. I'm a New Yorker not an Athian." Even though she was trying to get out of the city at the beginning of the game because she literally said she hated New York. At first I was like "well congrats". A fresh start in a whole new world and you didn't need the money that burned up. But she still isolates herself and acts like a victim even though she was trying to get out the whole time. Then a purpose for living literally lands in her lap and she rebels against it.
You forgot to mention how she just suddenly switches to "YEAH I'M THE PROTECTOR OF ATHIA THIS IS MY HOME" during the final boss after bitching and moaning the entire game to everyone's faces about how much she hates Athia and how it can burn to the ground and die for all she cares.
How have writers forgot to make a likeable character that starts out unlikable. Luke Fon Fabre is a great example. A whiney sheltered rich boy who goes on and adventure after being teleported away from home and slowly changes into a better person. How'd we go from that to this
The point is to make a deep Character with understandable flaws, Not a flawed Character with modern narcissism. Even a Joker who just wants to see the world burn can work, Sometimes he says wise things about Society, and it works Because he is a mass-murdering sociopath. Thefore: a good Controversity You know why it works? Because villians like him are portrayed as villians from the creators, not as heroes.
Seeing Charlie in desperation at the end because the writers thought the players of their game were gonna be brain dead or have some kind o Alzheimer Variant that makes them forget the Storie points was hilarious, I wish he just went home to see if the dad was waiting on the other side lol
Now I never grew up as an orphan abandoned in a train station - but wouldn't someone with no friends or family like Frey literally throw themselves at the opportunity to be part of a community that obviously wants her and welcomes her there? The writing in this game is so bad that when she starts trauma dumping on Auden she's basically giving her reasons why she should STAY, not leave.
That was my thought exactly. She's loved and accepted and supported and praised and practically worshiped and her answer is "Nah dawg, I wanna go back to my weave and die in the gutter during a gang war."
They certainly would. It's a shame that while the story presents Frey as a foster home kid who had a rough life and felt abandoned, it doesn't really explore it because it would have shown Frey as vulnerable and *human*, and they can't have that.
Nowadays, writers think making your character unlikeable means they're tortured or cool or an antihero; like Rick from Rick and Morty or Bojack Horseman. But they end up fumbling the bag and their character ends up like She-Hulk or Indian Velma.
I think it might be interesting when she woke up in Athia, she's confused first, and the when she got the power she messing around a bit. But then she remembers about her cat and maybe the writer can made Frey's motivation to go home is only for Homer. Also maybe changed her personality a bit.
I liked the bit where the vambrace said “Sir, your Tonta will freeze before you reach the first marker!” And she was all, “Then I’ll fucking see you in fucking Hell’s Kitchen, fuckass!” and crossed her two lightsabers together to kill him with his own butterfly beam.
Oof I am trying to write a main character that's snarky & arrogant (top in her field so she gets away with it career-wise) but the story is focused on her growth and redemption. I'm just worried she'll be so unlikable that people will automatically tune out or it'll end up as something like this :/
She would've been a pretty cool character IF: - Her rudeness caused actual problems for her - She changed troughout the game as a consequence of seeing how it causes problems for her and/or other people trying to help her and her realising she's just pushing away potential help and friends - She had more than 30 IQ when her survival depends on it
Fury from darksiders 3 had more character development. She's literally called FURY, she is the embodiment of it, her sole purpose for life is to kill, and she has a fantastic development, going from a sadistic, arrogant murderer to a wise, thinking considerate...well...still murderer. Instead of giving absolute shit stains like forespoken publicity, actual good but underrated games like the darksiders franchise need some love!
@Alexander Martinez Where did I say he "needed" a few femicides? Did you just make that up? I said he COMMITTED a few femicides because those were the most brutal and visceral murders depicted in the game, given the vulnerability of his victims. You're not one of those mens rights activists, are you? LMAOOOO Not to mention, if you think Kratos wasn't an anti-hero, but still admit the game is good, then you shouldn't have any problem with the protagonist in Forspoken. Glad I could clear that up for you.
@jax smith kratos was a tragic monster until the reboot. he only needed one game. also love how you say he needed a few femicides when he killed hundreds of unnamed men and like a dozen relevant male characters. honestly if you think OG kratos was an anti-hero you need to get your head checked, damn.
I think writers learned the wrong lesson from Iron Man. Yes, Tony Stark is rude and snarky, but that doesn't mean that rudeness and snark just automatically give you charisma
Looking how white was the mother and how "diverse" is the main character, we can guess what the father looked like, and see how the game keeps the stereotype about father being "out of the picture" perfectly alive... :D
Honestly, I wish more and more writers start writing female main characters like Deathpolca (demons roots) and not like Frey (Forespoken), Being Rude =/= being strong, infact, it says the opposite, the strongest of people are usually the least rude and most loved, even some strong leaders that did awful things were usually said to be Loved by the ones around them and Calm and Collective instead of rude and loud
I love how modern game writers seem to think that adding curse words into every sentence (sometimes repeatedly) makes their characters come off as more "mature" or "edgy," but in reality they just sound like middle schoolers when they're out of earshot of their parents lol
I also hate it when they do use words that are not from the same time era where non of those word even exit to begin with, like the medieval era both in Game or Netflix show they use word that was never used or where created to begin with but really use modern word in those show. Why not use word that are made up for the era you are in that only makes scene in that time frame i really hate any creator who does this kinde thing.
they had to borrow from a better game ig lol I love how Dark Souls, a game that has very minimal story unless you go looking for it, is above and beyond this hot garbage
"Welcome to Forspoken. The game where you play as the antagonist, instead of the protagonist, except at the end, you have the choice of making a decent decision."
what is particularly frustrating is the parkour mechanics and the graphics are really good, there was a good foundation for a good game with better writing and execution
Justice for cuff dude, he didn't deserve this. Was the voice of reason for the entire game until the writers went like "nah he's cartoonishly evil now"
I'm just here to remind you that this narrative chef-d'œuvre, this digital tour-de-force, this interactive wonder, this amazing specimen of electronic media was written by four fucking people.
I don't mind jerk or unlikeable main characters, but only if they improve over time. Great example is Luke fon Fabre from Tales of the Abyss. The guy was such an unlikeable brat but turned into a respectable badass in the end. And the reasons for being an unlikeable brat was also explained and reasonable.
The sad part about all this is there's a lot of potential for a lot of awesome fun with the base concepts, totally butchered. I would love an ending where you either have to return to New York and throw down with these things, or where her real world experience beats the bad guys in a way they didn't expect (like having a good old fashion handcannon).
One of the few Clip-Sharers in a recession that actually deserve their income to buy the insane components to run this pos What the hell even was this game?
Id like to think he had the '' accurate biblical angel' design, but got the gold metal body as the final thing. Either way, i've never wanted a 'twist' villain to win more than him,, it's a really good concept for a support character revealed into the main baddie, and the fact that Frey kept insulting and treating all parties like trash with her shit motives while whining from start to end. Game of the year, would highly reccomended 🥴
@Aphelion I know, but there was some dangerous defiance in Lucifer's beauty, to mark that he is a *fallen* angel. Speaking of visual game design, it's really important to convey both sides of the character who is both perfect celestial being who was banished. I think they could've made the latter more pronounced in his design while keeping him majestic. For instance, he had talons on his hands, which was a nice touch. IMHO, he really needs more details like that.
@Poker Face Tbf, his design DOES give Lucifer vibes. Lucifer was considered the most beautiful angel and had a silver tongue. Even his name of Morningstar lent to his perfection. Even after he fell, he was beautiful and a deceiver with his silken lies and used his good looks on top of it to his advantage. So, Vambrace, being so 'heavenly' makes complete sense when comparing him to Lucifer.
@Poker Face Also, I guess what they had in mind was he and the protagonist defeat the final witch. And only after that does he and the protagonist fight cause they both have different ideas of what fate the fantasy world shall have. Like, he says something about how humans are corrupt and should be eliminated because they ruin the world that birthed them and she goes like "wait a minute, this isn't what I wanted". Then he smacks her ass, and the dragon saves her before the witches give her their powers and she gets to make the first selfless choice by sacrificing herself to beat him or soemthing, but they ran out of budget or the higher ups decided the project was already going over budget. Either that or the game creator's were dumb, the higher ups that approved were dumber. It's a 50/50 in my opinion.
The hardware needed to run 720p30 (that is prehistoric in PC terms) is the most outrageous aspect of the requirements. From what I see so far from this game, 80€ is a very hard sell.
Yeah I really can't get behind this dialogue at all, but damn is that sad since the voice acting I find to be exceptional. The delivery is where it needs to be, it's just that damn writing.
Imagine Anne, Kagome, Luz and Chihiro acted and behave like Frey within their respective stories i'm pretty sure the world they visited would expel them out and prohibited them to visit it
Entertainment
Frey is that one kid in school that looked lonely & has no friends and you try to be friends with then realize why the kid has no friends.
yeah. pretty much.
@A cute Lil' Mint LOL
too relatable
The fact that he literally predicted the entire plot in 3 minutes is hilarious 😂
@Luq Adam ?
@Sarydormi no he didnt
I mean the dude is on par with legendary authors writing skills. Effortless deductions, i kinda wish I had insight like that but noooooo, i need my hand held to understand basic character writing like this.
It wasnt literally 3 minutes in. It was 11.
the idea that the dragon was her mother is so silly that not most people would have not come up with this theory and yet he was right
It's a weird trend with lots of writers in videogames and cinema to write strong female "girl bosses" as awful people. It says more about the writers themselves than anyone else
@Blue Flare seeing what happened with that one spice academy Crunchyroll original, it's just bad writers period. Doesn't matter if they're male or female. And also I'd argue that women are different from men and should be written with that in mind (because a male protagonist in a female body isn't good writing either), but most people just do it wrong
@V0RT3X its one of these people again kekw
@Deffrança But black of woman characters isn't forced diversity. If every playable character is a white dude it just gets stale, even from a purely esthetic standpoint
@Wertzuio Yes, also true.
Moral of the story: If life deals you an unfair hand, treat everybody else like it's their fault, & you will be granted magic powers
@Kizuato add everybody to that list
@ryan vagenVERY SAD
@Kizuato religion was already added tho?
They literally made Cuff the villain so that Frey could be retroactively justified in not trusting him even though he's been nothing but nice.
plot twist, Cuff is probably going to go down a good guy path but the whole game happened while he's attached to someone like Frey, therefore he decided to "ah fuck it, I'll just go goof-o-mode after all"
He's the most noble and genuinely likeable "villain" ever then cause he was more understanding and caring and tolerable than the actual protagonist.
@Joshua Gross I'm saying when the antagonist is either acting or hasn't gone do the darkside yet they're very likable like aizen or obito
@Reggie Moore Whaddya mean? Aizen's still awesome.
I don't think that's how writing works
Honestly the cuff probably wasn't even evil at the start, it just got fed up with how awful of a person she was and switched sides.
@Oniplus I've seen other comments joke about that too. And yeah. I would want to destroy the world too if I had to be attached to some rude, selfish, annoying loudmouth. And since I don't give enough of a shit about this game to look up the REAL twist (seriously I only remember this game even exists because I keep getting replies on videos about it lmfao), that's just going to be my own headcanon now. Lol
@Zombified Pariah what if he became a villain after being fed up from getting stuck with Frey for the whole game, I mean, I will too if I had to listen to Frey being snarky every 10 seconds
Literally all of the cuff's dialogue before the twist and the final boss is just him trying get Frey to stop being such a shitty person. I still don't quite understand how he's supposed to be the villain.
Chaotic Good
It's impressive how the cutscenes and graphics manage to look both modern and outdated at the same time.
oh my god, you're right. I knew something was off, but couldn't tell exactly what.
@Nicholas Deininger fallout 4 is fun though
@Monke Monkerson two words: Luminous Engine
There’s a reason why Square abandoned that engine that was originally going to be for Kingdom hearts 3 and FF7 Remake (in fact they had to restart production for that game because they moved from Luminous to Unreal)
Classic ps3 graphics
Remi ds me of ME legendary edition
Imagine pourimg your heart and soul into the art direction for this world, only for the writers to absolutely botch the script and plot.
@Adele even so, the visual artists clearly gave more effort than the writers.
@Adele Well in the end only art approved by the director of the game gets in so... the artists never stood a chance ...
Art and world looks pretty awful too
YIIK, anyone?
Yeah, like i can feel the fucking pain.
The woman who voices the main character needs a new agent. She now has whatever tf this is, the Charlie’s angels remake, and Netflix’s Resident Evil show on her resume.
And apparently she has weapons training with like a dozen weapons; she should be black Xena or something awesome, not in repeated shit.
Wow, that is... actual sabotage and/or heavy delusion. Wishing her better roles
It's so sad because she's ACTUALLY good.
Oh naw. That agent needs to GO.
The Modern AAA Game Dev’s Guide to writing a Totally Hip Character:
- Swears excessively in pretty much every sentence.
- Asshole towards everyone she encounters (usually until they do something that benefits them)
- Shoehorned sad backstory
- *qUiRkY*
@Wertzuio If you got called out like that, you knew that the game (or any media) is terrible.
the swearing isn't the main problem, the problem is that it doesn't fit most of the time like the quotes are written sooOOOO baaad... it least make it sound like the character actually swears on a regular basis, not like you just told a toddler how to say fuck and they're trying to merge the word into their vocabularies
@Miles Dewey they arent white so their diversity can be used as a shield for criticism for bad writing. suddenly you get called a misogynist etc
@Comrade Sam agree with the og commenter but don’t be mad that they aren’t white, there is nothing wrong with diversity
spoilers ahead: i love how the only fairly reasonable character that's manageable to sit through speaking, while also maintaining a good moral compass is the cufflink that also decides to betray Frey.
That cuff’s decision to deliberately betray Frey is genius
@Comrade Samnailed it
@cccbbbaaa110 nah bro your insulting these 12 year olds by comparing her to them
Reminds me of Santa inc. saw a review of it and the speech Santa gave to that elf as to why he didn't pick her as a successor made me go "That's actually a pretty valid reason, this is a good speech, is this the turning point where this becomes good?" And the elf's response was "F U" like WHAT it was a genuinely good reason, there's no reason to respond that agressivley
Who wouldn't betray a 12 yr old zoomer?
If she spoke to me the way she spoke to him I'd have become her antagonist as well.
I'm so upset that one girl that lost her dad didn't punch Frey in the face when they were arguing.
At this point she is the antagonist
This game teaches us how nice silent protagonists are
like Claude from gta 3
@António Nova Every souls game has a random guy who got thrown into a world for some reason, but he rises up and ultimately becomes the most powerful dude in that world. I think it’s great writing
Remember the original Dead Space game ? That's a good example 😆
Yep, Charlie ranting about characters having no actual voice actor kinda makes zero sense when you’ve got characters like these in a game 😂
Far Cry 2, OG Cod campaign, Doom Guy, Metro
I hate when higher difficulties just means they have double hp and you do half damage
god, it's such a cheap and lazy way to do difficulty.
@Cpt.CornNut Those are normal difficulty fights. And they are also bosses. The problem is when normal respawning enemies become damage sponges, especially if they are not even threatening to the player.
@óscar rivera abal Midir, Fire Giant, every single mmo boss, anything in destiny 1 or 2. We could list them all day. Worst of all is when they cam 1 or 2 shot you, and have a mile long health bar.
For real ,i rather have enemies that 2 hit kill me but arent a fucking sponge, nothing lazier and more annoying that fights that are 15 minutes of doing the same shit until the enemy dies.
This game screams "I'm a tough teen who doesn't have to listen to anyone. grrrrrrrrr"
"how did you get here unscathed?"
*snarky response from frey*
"execute her"
frey: "no just listen to me please!!!"
dude what is that emoji😂
Even if they kept the "twist" of cuff betraying frey, It would have been better if he just kept his personality. Like he breaks free from her and is like "You were given a second chance to start over and you've squandered it. You don't deserve my power or to be here any longer." And then goes after her.
That would mean that the game would carry a good message, we can't do that.
I'd even love it if Cuff wasn't an evil demon -- just an entity summoned by the local dude to destroy Athia and obligated by the pact to do so. This means Cuff doesn't want to destroy the world, he *has to do it* if he wants to go home. That could have been a nice parallel to Frey and her recent "I don't care if this world burns" temper tantrum.
Oh my gosh she's so strong and independent
I am so fucking tired of "strong independent" female characters.
You’re gonna have to blame men for not knowing how to write a normal person whos strong and independent, because they are a woman 🤣🤣 imagine being so incapable of a simple task 💀💀
Moral of the story: Never give a New Yorker mystical powers
@Carlos M Rivera sounds like someone got their feelings hurt by a New Yorker.
@KHA Almalki Let's not be ridiculous now.
Ayy I cooka da pizza my dads a dragon ayyy
kid named mario mario
Gah when she argued with the girl who’s dad just died, like holy cow she seems more like an antagonist😂
Both characters dialogue was comically hamfisted. About the level of nuance i'd expect from thomas the tank engine, except the train show has better facial animations so I'm kinda doing thomas dirty
I'm so upset that Frey didn't get punched in the face in that scene. That's what I would have done if I was that girl that lost her dad.
Ugh it was hard to sit through .
but sad
more sad, more right!!
17:19 it's actually a little scary seeing him legitimately pissed off. You realize how much it takes to make Cr1tikal this upset?
The cuff dude was the only likable character.
So the writers had to make him disney style evil to make it so that the main character looked like she was in the right the whole time being a piece of shit towards him for no reason the whole game.... While all he did was offer actually great advice, and reasonable responses to her bullshit.
Like.
The dude was the ONLY GOOD CHARACTER.
So good the writers LITERALLY had to completely change his character for the plot.
Ah yes- RWBY made "good" use of this strategy. Much to the chagrin of many.
"Oh no, player, you're supposed to like Frey, not him! That's it, he is a villain now! You've been sympathizing with a villain the whole time, player! Serves you right for not trusting our heroine!"
I honestly thought they were gonna reveal that the Cuff was her father this whole time and the other half which he merged with was his memories. But that would have been too good for these writers.
And plus that would have meant having a male character who's not weak or pathetic like the rest of the few male characters in here. Typical of modern entertainment.
thats so cliche, that im surprised they didnt do that.
That's the plot of detective Pikachu only you changed Pikachu with cuffs.
Would've been cliched and cheesy, but that's genuinely 100x better than having something that doesn't make sense and is so obviously just done for le subverting expectations.
fck thats so good and it hit me with the punchline
The writers conflate "confidence" with "arrogance". They project their perceptions of strong male stereotypes onto a female frame and the result is a peek into their state of mind.
these traits would still be annoying on a guy…
Writers these days must think that making a protagonist as unlikeable as possible = depth and a bigger character arc.
@Fully Suave Yeah everything the OG Dante wasn't. He's not really edgy aside from his taste in music and clothing. Despite being cynical, he makes jokes and actually tries to help people. Plus when he roasts someone he doesn't sound like a edgy teen. Plus I thought Vergil hates gun.
@Zion Leach i say better writing could have saved that game from being doomed as a one-off. Dante's writing of being a narcistic confident prick having no development and just being a shitchild towards everyone really hurt the game as a whole
@Fully Suave True. It was fun to play. The demon design was cool. But it was much better than 2.
this is not a 2023 problem, the DmC: Devil May Cry's Dante is literally Frey but a dude, it was just as bad then than it is now but at least DmC is good to play
@Zombified Pariah Most of the comments agree, not really an argument. Won't be long until this game is forgotten.
The problem with Frey as a character can be summed up in 3 sentences:
"I hate this place, I'm alone with no one who cares for me, I wanna leave, but I'm trapped here because I don't wanna walk."
*Okay, I will magically transport you someplace far, far away from here to a world filled with magic where you will be powerful enough to do whatever you wanna do and you will have a companion to talk to, who will never leave you.*
"I hate it here, I don't wanna be friends with this companion, I wanna go back to that place I hate where I'm powerless and feel trapped."
I just cannot believe that the company that produced the story of Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced and it's protagonist could also produce a similar story about being transported to another world, but with a terribly unlikable character like Frey.
I understand not wanting to tell the same story twice, but Frey is just too much. Marche worked because even though he loved the new world, he understood he shouldn't try to escape his problems, sp he wanted to go back. Frey is just like, I hate where I come from and I hate this new world too. Why? No reason, I just do. Send me back so I can keep hating
Some people disliked Marche because they themselves would never choose a normal reality, and that was position many of the main characters expressed in the story. But Marche wasn't hated or completely unlikable because he had good, sensible reasons for wanting to change the world back to normal and he frequently struggled with himself about whether he should or not.
To go from that to Frey just being flatout unlikable as a character is just... how? How? HOW? SQUARE ENIX, TELL ME HOW? I just don't understand.
Spoiler
edit: Just saw the last part. Yeah, Cuff betrayed her but I didn't know he would do that... and Frey didn't either 🤣 Oh someone you disliked for no reason betrayed you? Well, you didn't exactly make it a hard choice for him and you wanted him gone anyway, so...
@Jikz Yeah I was going to say. No way in hell Japanese writers would write something like this.
I ain’t readin allat
@AsuraTheBass The problem isn't that Frey isn't allowed to be stressed out or angry about something. She is allowed -- emotions are great! They provide depth and reliability to the character. Emotions are used to show what character likes, how they hide their vulnerability, how they respond to stress, where they find solace. Bad writing is the problem. She is incredibly inconsistent: one moment, she is extremely happy and excited about having magic powers and using them to the point of flaunting them, and then she is angry and rude lashing out at literally everyone despite clearly needing help and guidance in that new world (especially if she wants to find her way back home). It's possible for the character to be mad about their predicament, it's impossible to literally stay angry at everything and everyone around them unless they're on the verge of a breakdown or hysteria.
Also, even Frey's initial conversations with Auden sound unnatural: people thrust into her situation would use this opportunity to talk to a friendly face to more information, explain their predicament and ask if there is a way to convince their leader lady that they're not a demon, so there is no need to imprison and execute them. However, Frey complains about her life, follows Auden because food and tries to leave even though Auden is the only person who defended her in the court, risked herself to free her and the source of valuable information (did she really expect to navigate her way through the place without knowing its customs, terminology and NOT get caught by the guard again?). Her attitude doesn't make sense from both rational and emotional point of view.
Moreover, if writers planned Cuff to be the antagonist, letting Frey connect with Cuff and befriend him, make them go from reluctant companions to friends would be the most logical thing to do because Cuff's villainous reveal was supposed to hurt. Instead, it fell flat because there was no bond to sever, no trust to betray. They didn't even use the delicious opportunity to hint at Cuff's darker side and make him partially responsible for Frey's behavior via intruding into her memories or giving her constant nightmares, making her exhausted and paranoid -- which is a great shame.
It was written by the same guy who wrote after earth
Esg scores
Really makes you appreciate how Link silently and bravely takes on impossible odds with unflinching courage instead of... This game's protag
@Super Bodoque Everyone only thinks he's annoying or cringe or for kids because that's how he's been written in the games for like over a decade now. But anyone who actually bothered playing the games from the 2000s would realize that he actually used to be a decent character and even mature and cool.
@Zombified Pariah that moment when Sonic is infinitely less annoying in his newest game 😂
Screw that. Even protagonists that aren't even really good people like Agent 47 are still more likeable than ones like Frey.
I would like do add how groan inducing it is that once the cuff’s true nature is revealed, he starts talking all big and domineering. It’s the most generic villain thing and honestly it would have been so much more chilling if he kept his calm, soft spoken demeanour post-turn.
@Poker Face right! Like the fact that it doesn't fit the plot or his character is what's bothersome to me, I don't hate the generic trope of the collected character turning snarky once they become villain but it needs to make sense
Yeah, Cuff remaining his collected and polite self would fit his aesthetic a lot more. It would be even cooler if he didn't try to kill Frey and instead brushed her off as an insignificant insect or a buzzing fly. Would have shown how little he thinks of her.
Also, it could be really cool if Cuff was the one to offer to transport Frey back to her world as a condescending "thanks" for liberating him and finally letting him fulfill what he was summoned for (and go back to his own dimension after he is done). He could even throw Frey's own words back at her: "Wasn't it you who said "I don't care if this world burns?", Frey? A bit too late to pretend that you care, don't you think? "
For Frey, accepting the offer would mean accepting Cuff's low view of her and essentially losing to him. Meanwhile, rejecting his offer and going against the odds would have shown her growth and defiance, and that Cuff wasn't right about her.
I honestly believe that a character being abrasive and crass at the beginning works so long as you can see their progress and hold redeemable traits. The writers could have made some small choices to help us like Frey, like maybe fleshing out Frey and Cuffs bond. Maybe have a fun mutual roast deal between the two. Have Frey insist that it's her magic, and then get Cuff to briefly cut the power in the middle of a low stake fight which leads to Frey appreciating cuff and growing accustomed to working with someone. Also give Frey better witty humor. A dick that complains is annoying, A funny dick complaining however is entertainment.
Edit: Finished the video and doubling down on what I said. The twist would have hit so much harder if Frey had a connection to cuff
It's a shame when I often come across random comments with a way better grasp on writing quality than the ones paid to do the job. 🤦🏽♀️
I bursted out laughing at 9:21 when charlie talks about her personality and she out of no where tells him to Shut the F**k up. HAHAHA
It totally sounds like she’s talking to him
I feel like writers these days confuse "independent" or "strong willed" with being unlikeable and rude
No its how everyone else looks at it if you correct someone now a days they look to it as rude
Agreed
In reality they are the same, cry me a river
You know what’s even more depressing? Aside from the existence of this game? People like the MC actually exists in real life… and believe they are the good guys and can rightfully and justified to fuck over everyone 😢
average twitter users
Uh...duh? It's called "Narcissistic Personality Disorder". They're narcissists.
Gotta love how both Pyro and Charlie each predicted two of the biggest final act plot twists RIGHT off the bat (Cuff being a twist villain and the Dragon being protag’s mother) because this game’s story is the most predictable trope filled crap and its definition of subtlety is 3 clichés in a trench coat.
“Remember guys, one ounce of kindness equals weak!!” 🤓
Devs: *Make as unlikable character as it is humanely possible*
Players: *Do not like the character*
Devs: "people just doesn't understand and want depth from characters nowdays*
"They are also just super sexist and racist."
if they made her like cuff and get along as friends, or he lied and said he was her father and built a relationship so she trusted him, the twist would have been a lot more powerful i think
Gotta love that Velma writing style, making the protagonist an insufferable person
@Vibe Vizier Depends how many episodes you watched. Deeper character than most people give the writers credit for.
@CorruptedPoison ehhhhhhhh? I find him unbearable, personally
Saints Row 2022 dialogue
@CorruptedPoison
No, no he is not lmao neither are the rest of the characters as well.
The show fell off hard.
a gross common theme in writing strong and powerful characters (especially in woman) is unintentionally making them assholes. Writers don’t know how to create these characters and end up correlating harsh and insensitive with girl boss. Its infuriating to see a character with genuine potential be thrown away because the writers think that making them be mean will make them ‘cooler’
I’ve literally wrote my whole life, I love writing! I have followed multiple writing courses and have two whole scripts ready (plus multiple stories) but I’ve been refused because I need to have 5 years of writing studies(?) or a writing degree.
And then I see this or other shit on Netflix with horrible writing and feel really depressed because these degrees cost SO MUCH and you don’t have a guaranteed career after.
Can you write a despicable character worse than Frey, if that was your assignment?
I rest my case.
Keep writing. No matter what.
@G G this gotta be the worst take ive ever seen in my life
There is horrible writing everywhere, don’t let it discourage you. The people need good writing. Getting a script picked up is probably extremely difficult.
How can a silent protagonist from a game decades old can have a more likeable personality than a character in a game in recent years
Because actions speak louder than words lol
Writing a likable person hasn’t changed much, which makes it even more appalling that they did so poorly
Foreskin is truly one of the games of all times.
"yo we're literally all dying" "ye but i didn't have parents qq"
"yo' she no have parenta" .... "ye but we all gon die som' day, so who car?"
what worse [existential crisis]
"This is all YOUR fault."
"Oh, and tell me how exactly this is my fault."
"... Can we just NOT talk?"
10/10 on how to shift the blame to someone else illogically. What a likeable main character.
@STICC chad move
If Twitter were a video game character
@Kopie date men if you dislike women so much
I think we should call it the new guy syndrome ( New guy meme ) where the writer makes a character believing they are good guys because they are self inserts but the whole world around them see them as bad people, because they haven't had the chance to learn about morality in real life, they cannot portray it in art
@Pan the Man
That is true but at that point in my opinion her turnaround is too abrupt and quick that it feels unnatural.
All in all I really feel sad because I was looking forward to try this game out, but having a character like that would really take me out of the experience.
I'm glad that I could clear it out.
Have a good day
@Jacob Bager Oh, makes sense.
Frey only became a decent human once she discovered her mom didn't leave her and that mistreating someone might end up pissing off an archdemon who nearly kills her, but beforehand, she... was just a dick.
@Pan the Man
The syndrome is that the artist of the comic puts their view on their main character (the lady) thinking they are the good and moral person in the story when in reality they are not and are surprised when the outside world react in the way that they want it to.
I just feel like it's the same thing we see here with the way the main character in forspoken is portrayed.
I don't know if I explain that well enough here but I hope it helped.
Except the new guy was the opposite, the one you describe is the lady that mistreated him. Unless the syndrome is about the audience...
32:48 33:10 Charlie is straight up losing brain cells trying to comprehend why Frey is like this.
@VioletQueen Oh...ok. Just thought it was worth mentioning.
@Zombified Pariah That one’s already been pointed out about quite a bit. Plus his reaction there is more “composed angry confusion” than “dying and babbling confusion.”
@Johnny SaleryWhy are you acting like that would have helped at all? Nobody is gonna like your protagonist if they're an ass for most of the story. How is that so hard to understand?
You forgot 17:19
It's gotta be bad if someone as woke as Charlie can't comprehend it. Still, this game is hilarious for doing it and I'm glad it was released. Meme material.
It reminds me of YIIK, where the protagonist is purposefully written to be unlikeable, but they forgot to add more humanizing moments thru out to make you actually care what happens to them.
Thing is about YIIK. Its a comedy so its ok if the characters an asshole as long as the joke falls on him being a terrible person. (At least i think its a comedy, i fell asleep when i watching a walkthrough)
"DUDE, CAN YOU SHUT UP ABOUT YOUR DEAD SISTER? NOBODY CARES!" - John Yiik
the fact that pyro and critikal are both so amazed by the auto-picking up items, like it's not a mechanic that existed in games since the dawn of time, it's crazy. my brother in christ, that's literally just like walking over ammo boxes in Quake 1
@Blue199 While picking up things automatically is not a new feature in a sense, comparing old school shooting games to open world style games like they are the same is kinda dumb.
You think Charlie/Pyro don't know about running over items to pick them up? Reaaally? Reaaaaaally?
It's more a comment of the fact in AAA Open World games, typically you have to stop and gather the herbs or carve an animal with an animation and how refreshing it is to not do that.
@Jett Sett It’s like doom but with brown 3D models
@Jett Sett Its like Doom but with 3D models.
@Jett Sett like Doom but brown
Wtf is Quake 1
"I've shed blood for this place"
"this place is not my home"
Make it make sense writers💀
The part where she calls an ancient evil demon a “gaslighting piece of shit” was so hilarious, this game wants to appeal to the tik tok demographic so hard
@Al Dakota Bruh shit talking the MCU when yall like games like this and the shit sony makes is really funny.
Haha gaslighting is a real thing though. Not sure whats tiktok about it. This game looks like ass tho.
@Rusty Smackleford tell me youre unvaccinated without telling me you're unvaccinated
@Funk Robot yh I'm pretty sure he never gaslight her just another example of using a word you don't understand just because it's trendy
Too bad the tiktok demographic won't have the braincells or the attention spam to sit through a whole game
I live in NY and lemme tell you something, a flying dragon trying to kill me is 100x better than living in NY.
@Chris Bertolino that's what I plan to do. Fkn hate it here. NY is overrated and overly expensive for no reason.
And that’s why I moved from Long Island to Florida 😂
Completely fair
Finally a game that can chip-off Charlie's sanity away piece by piece. Watching his sanity slowly drifting off as the game progress towards the end gave me immeasurable joy.
I love how whoever planned the game difficulty thinks more health = more difficult. It doesn’t make them more difficult when their ai hasn’t been changed at all…they just become a nuisance to fight because they take forever to kill.
This game is the the best example of a " millenial writing".
I can't imagine having to play this for over 6 hours. I could barely finish this video.
So she doesn't give a shit about people who welcomed her, a complete stranger, with open arms and instead she wants to go back to new York where she's homeless, alone and has a gang after her. Makes sense.
@Jack Collins no, we would just cringe extra hard and call him an angsty teen
@Ethan Miller ayup. Frey reminds me of Alex YIIK. Which is. Not a good thing.
@Tabellarium they could've done something better with it like what you said, her having an existential crisis and depressive episodes over how shitty existence in general is, but ultimately I feel like she would still wanna go back to a much simpler safer life in our world, maybe up until later on in the story where she'd have a more personal connection to the fantasy world and it's people, giving her something to live and fight for
@Jonathan Pilcher Something important to note that isn't shown in this video is that she was seemingly about to unalive herself just before going to the other world. So, from her own perspective life in New York is so horrible she'd rather be dead. I really don't see why she would ever have a desire to go back there, no matter how bad this new world is.
The most I could see happening is her falling into an extreme depression over both worlds being so horrible to her.
@Jack Collins Honestly, people were just as upset with Alex from YIIK. The only difference is that Forspoken is a AAA game and Frey is a young woman.
lmfao She apologizes to Homer after choosing to save Athia instead of returning to New York but like, didn't she give the cat to the judge after the fire? Did she just forget she did that?
Exactly ! Her character motivations are all over the place
I’ve never seen anyone in such a rush to become homeless again.
if you feel like you're writing stories like shit, remember that Forspoken exists.
I can’t believe he genuinely called that the dragon was the mom. Gigabrain
It was easy yall
He’s not a genie, just well educated on stories
I love how early on they get to a point were she tells the cuffs to stop talking. They both agree to not talk. Then like 3 seconds later they're both talking again
I honestly think they made Cuff into the bad guy simply because he is becoming more likable than the protagonist.
Becoming? No he just was.
@Arnaldo Bermudez At least they didn't start erasing him from the story.
@The Xecutor He's more likeable by the simple merit of wanting to murder the protagonist.
Repent to Jesus Christ “Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.””
Matthew 19:26 NIV
Y
It's the unapologetic, selfish "like me as I am", cause I'm cool, trope, without developing any likeable characteristics, to make you root for the protagonist, as the story moves along. There's no honor, no altruism, or humility, just, arrogance, selfishness, victimhood, and entitlement.
what if the bracelet wasn't evil at first and just went insane after being exposed to Frey for so long
The Cuff in his true form looks bomb as hell
It felt good when Cuff started his villain arc
This game story feels like they cant get past the refusal of the call that comes with the hero's journey
I love how the character 6 hours in is like " There is no place like home. I'm a New Yorker not an Athian." Even though she was trying to get out of the city at the beginning of the game because she literally said she hated New York. At first I was like "well congrats". A fresh start in a whole new world and you didn't need the money that burned up. But she still isolates herself and acts like a victim even though she was trying to get out the whole time. Then a purpose for living literally lands in her lap and she rebels against it.
@BloodyVikings You don't need to defend it bruh just say it sucks ass
Modern Dating in a Nutshell
You forgot to mention how she just suddenly switches to "YEAH I'M THE PROTECTOR OF ATHIA THIS IS MY HOME" during the final boss after bitching and moaning the entire game to everyone's faces about how much she hates Athia and how it can burn to the ground and die for all she cares.
@BloodyVikings she lives in New York where...you guessed it her life is also in constant danger
i guess it's true that you can run away forever but your problems will follow you😂
How have writers forgot to make a likeable character that starts out unlikable. Luke Fon Fabre is a great example. A whiney sheltered rich boy who goes on and adventure after being teleported away from home and slowly changes into a better person. How'd we go from that to this
The point is to make a deep Character with understandable flaws, Not a flawed Character with modern narcissism.
Even a Joker who just wants to see the world burn can work, Sometimes he says wise things about Society, and it works Because he is a mass-murdering sociopath. Thefore: a good Controversity
You know why it works? Because villians like him are portrayed as villians from the creators, not as heroes.
Seeing Charlie in desperation at the end because the writers thought the players of their game were gonna be brain dead or have some kind o Alzheimer Variant that makes them forget the Storie points was hilarious, I wish he just went home to see if the dad was waiting on the other side lol
Now I never grew up as an orphan abandoned in a train station - but wouldn't someone with no friends or family like Frey literally throw themselves at the opportunity to be part of a community that obviously wants her and welcomes her there? The writing in this game is so bad that when she starts trauma dumping on Auden she's basically giving her reasons why she should STAY, not leave.
That was my thought exactly. She's loved and accepted and supported and praised and practically worshiped and her answer is "Nah dawg, I wanna go back to my weave and die in the gutter during a gang war."
They certainly would. It's a shame that while the story presents Frey as a foster home kid who had a rough life and felt abandoned, it doesn't really explore it because it would have shown Frey as vulnerable and *human*, and they can't have that.
This is like if you made Kill La Kill but Ryuko was insufferable, and Senketsu was evil.
This makes me appreciate Link for never saying coherent words even more.
@MC Ride
“Oh boy!
Smooching time!”
@MC Ride Was looking for this. XD
@Random npc I have to wonder what Link would say in Majora’s Mask
@Random npc Clapping? 🤨
@Hi I'm Gib I like this headcannon
Nowadays, writers think making your character unlikeable means they're tortured or cool or an antihero; like Rick from Rick and Morty or Bojack Horseman.
But they end up fumbling the bag and their character ends up like She-Hulk or Indian Velma.
I think it might be interesting when she woke up in Athia, she's confused first, and the when she got the power she messing around a bit.
But then she remembers about her cat and maybe the writer can made Frey's motivation to go home is only for Homer.
Also maybe changed her personality a bit.
How do you manage to make me side with the bad guy for being a decent dude to chat with
I liked the bit where the vambrace said “Sir, your Tonta will freeze before you reach the first marker!”
And she was all, “Then I’ll fucking see you in fucking Hell’s Kitchen, fuckass!” and crossed her two lightsabers together to kill him with his own butterfly beam.
Oof I am trying to write a main character that's snarky & arrogant (top in her field so she gets away with it career-wise) but the story is focused on her growth and redemption. I'm just worried she'll be so unlikable that people will automatically tune out or it'll end up as something like this :/
She would've been a pretty cool character IF:
- Her rudeness caused actual problems for her
- She changed troughout the game as a consequence of seeing how it causes problems for her and/or other people trying to help her and her realising she's just pushing away potential help and friends
- She had more than 30 IQ when her survival depends on it
the rudeness is just the effect of being raised fatherless
@Luciid Dreamz she changes at the end of the game?!? 30 min from the end she says she doesn’t care about anyone there. You must be
Fury from darksiders 3 had more character development. She's literally called FURY, she is the embodiment of it, her sole purpose for life is to kill, and she has a fantastic development, going from a sadistic, arrogant murderer to a wise, thinking considerate...well...still murderer.
Instead of giving absolute shit stains like forespoken publicity, actual good but underrated games like the darksiders franchise need some love!
@Alexander Martinez Where did I say he "needed" a few femicides? Did you just make that up? I said he COMMITTED a few femicides because those were the most brutal and visceral murders depicted in the game, given the vulnerability of his victims. You're not one of those mens rights activists, are you? LMAOOOO
Not to mention, if you think Kratos wasn't an anti-hero, but still admit the game is good, then you shouldn't have any problem with the protagonist in Forspoken. Glad I could clear that up for you.
@jax smith kratos was a tragic monster until the reboot. he only needed one game.
also love how you say he needed a few femicides when he killed hundreds of unnamed men and like a dozen relevant male characters.
honestly if you think OG kratos was an anti-hero you need to get your head checked, damn.
I think writers learned the wrong lesson from Iron Man. Yes, Tony Stark is rude and snarky, but that doesn't mean that rudeness and snark just automatically give you charisma
Looking how white was the mother and how "diverse" is the main character, we can guess what the father looked like, and see how the game keeps the stereotype about father being "out of the picture" perfectly alive... :D
They kept it realistic
Lmfao both these comments 😂🤣
You know how many gas stations there are in Athia? Muhfukin cigs are hard to find
she thought she was the hero the literal second she tried to shoot cuff and she didn’t have powers
literally for one second SHE THOUGHT 🤣
I love the casual “okay” when he did indeed figure out that they can parkour
Honestly, I wish more and more writers start writing female main characters like Deathpolca (demons roots) and not like Frey (Forespoken), Being Rude =/= being strong, infact, it says the opposite, the strongest of people are usually the least rude and most loved, even some strong leaders that did awful things were usually said to be Loved by the ones around them and Calm and Collective instead of rude and loud
I love how modern game writers seem to think that adding curse words into every sentence (sometimes repeatedly) makes their characters come off as more "mature" or "edgy," but in reality they just sound like middle schoolers when they're out of earshot of their parents lol
I also hate it when they do use words that are not from the same time era where non of those word even exit to begin with, like the medieval era both in Game or Netflix show they use word that was never used or where created to begin with but really use modern word in those show.
Why not use word that are made up for the era you are in that only makes scene in that time frame i really hate any creator who does this kinde thing.
@Nicodoesn’t want his kid swearing either get mads about it
@VideoAmigos execution has a lot to do with it.
Cart Narcs' channel calling people 'Silly Goose' and 'Lazy Bones' has more actual curse word energy than all of the F-bombs in this video.
It's just because it's so forced and unnatural. If you're around someone that swears a lot you don't hear it.
I feel like talking to Frey is like talking to a brick wall
Does anyone else notice how much of this game's architecture (especially at the beginning) is basically the Oolacile township?
they had to borrow from a better game ig lol I love how Dark Souls, a game that has very minimal story unless you go looking for it, is above and beyond this hot garbage
"Welcome to Forspoken. The game where you play as the antagonist, instead of the protagonist, except at the end, you have the choice of making a decent decision."
id love to stay in a fantasy world where I gained magic than be stuck on this planet
@Cpt.CornNut That's the plan if I ever go.
what is particularly frustrating is the parkour mechanics and the graphics are really good, there was a good foundation for a good game with better writing and execution
What tanks it is writing and combat, it really seems repetitive from what I've seen
Justice for cuff dude, he didn't deserve this. Was the voice of reason for the entire game until the writers went like "nah he's cartoonishly evil now"
Nah, even when he became a mustache-twirling villain, his breaking speech about Frey's ego and trust issues was spot-on.
I'm just here to remind you that this narrative chef-d'œuvre, this digital tour-de-force, this interactive wonder, this amazing specimen of electronic media was written by four fucking people.
It's like Hack Horner and his conscience, except we're suppose to believe Jack is the good guy here
Did Rooster Teeth help write the game?
Nah, everyone would turn cartoonishly evil after spending that much time with frey, it makes you lose faith in humanity
I don't mind jerk or unlikeable main characters, but only if they improve over time.
Great example is Luke fon Fabre from Tales of the Abyss. The guy was such an unlikeable brat but turned into a respectable badass in the end. And the reasons for being an unlikeable brat was also explained and reasonable.
I never realized how much I enjoyed a silent protagonist before watching this.
1:18 Charlie predicts the game's entire story.
The sad part about all this is there's a lot of potential for a lot of awesome fun with the base concepts, totally butchered.
I would love an ending where you either have to return to New York and throw down with these things, or where her real world experience beats the bad guys in a way they didn't expect (like having a good old fashion handcannon).
One of the few Clip-Sharers in a recession that actually deserve their income to buy the insane components to run this pos
What the hell even was this game?
Honestly I can’t blame cuff for being evil, being with her probably made him evil lol
Id like to think he had the '' accurate biblical angel' design, but got the gold metal body as the final thing. Either way, i've never wanted a 'twist' villain to win more than him,, it's a really good concept for a support character revealed into the main baddie, and the fact that Frey kept insulting and treating all parties like trash with her shit motives while whining from start to end. Game of the year, would highly reccomended 🥴
@Aphelion I know, but there was some dangerous defiance in Lucifer's beauty, to mark that he is a *fallen* angel. Speaking of visual game design, it's really important to convey both sides of the character who is both perfect celestial being who was banished. I think they could've made the latter more pronounced in his design while keeping him majestic. For instance, he had talons on his hands, which was a nice touch. IMHO, he really needs more details like that.
@Poker Face Tbf, his design DOES give Lucifer vibes. Lucifer was considered the most beautiful angel and had a silver tongue. Even his name of Morningstar lent to his perfection. Even after he fell, he was beautiful and a deceiver with his silken lies and used his good looks on top of it to his advantage. So, Vambrace, being so 'heavenly' makes complete sense when comparing him to Lucifer.
...That would have made things kinda cool, like, making the final enemy by being an awful person, but that requires good writing
@Poker Face Also, I guess what they had in mind was he and the protagonist defeat the final witch. And only after that does he and the protagonist fight cause they both have different ideas of what fate the fantasy world shall have. Like, he says something about how humans are corrupt and should be eliminated because they ruin the world that birthed them and she goes like "wait a minute, this isn't what I wanted".
Then he smacks her ass, and the dragon saves her before the witches give her their powers and she gets to make the first selfless choice by sacrificing herself to beat him or soemthing, but they ran out of budget or the higher ups decided the project was already going over budget.
Either that or the game creator's were dumb, the higher ups that approved were dumber. It's a 50/50 in my opinion.
The hardware needed to run 720p30 (that is prehistoric in PC terms) is the most outrageous aspect of the requirements. From what I see so far from this game, 80€ is a very hard sell.
Yeah I really can't get behind this dialogue at all, but damn is that sad since the voice acting I find to be exceptional. The delivery is where it needs to be, it's just that damn writing.
Imagine Anne, Kagome, Luz and Chihiro acted and behave like Frey within their respective stories i'm pretty sure the world they visited would expel them out and prohibited them to visit it
Well Chihiro was a whiny kid at the beginning, but she quickly adapted to the world and revealed her better inner nature.