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Check out PC World's video with Steve & Gordon on Power Supplies: clip-share.net/video/zG71dQ9qRbc/video.htmlGrab something on the GN Store! store.gamersnexus.net/ Until 9/17/22, we are giving 10% of ALL GN store revenue to Cat Angels, a local non-profit cat shelter that we love to support.Watch "Is Intel Actually Screwed?" Part 1, where Gordon makes angry faces about internet commenters: clip-share.net/video/A98J1om9eBI/video.htmlWatch "Is Intel Actually Screwed?" Part 2, where Gordon rants more: clip-share.net/video/A5hv5rnavzQ/video.html
@sir robert downey senior Have you not paid attention moron taxpayers are directly giving billions to Intel also you're the dumb F that stated "we don't want a monopoly" just like every other moron Intel shill for the past year. I was just throwing that argument out with the trash as there isn't a monopoly and AMD nor Nvidia will be a threat to the continuation of Intel products. Again call me when AMD or Nvidia get any taxpayer money then maybe you can consider either of them to be a "monopoly" Only one thats taking money from "non consumers" is intel what ever happened to private industry and fair competition. Not exactly fair if you're getting free money for R&D from people who may or may not use the fucking products.
@LunarVVolf I don't know really what triggered you. I havnt criticized anyone but nvidia Intel is good so as AMD. What bad is Monopoly and politics played over products instead of its capabilities.It seriously mind-blowing what the F taxpayer has to do in this. You pay for the product you own it.Why you wanna brag about monopoly? It's bad doesn't matter whose practicing may it be AMD Intel or Nvidia. Just result in Hoarding, selling products to some at very low cost when something competitive comes up inline. End up wasting resources.
@sir robert downey senior All this talk about not wanting a monopoly hmm where was this sentiment back when Intel dominated an entire decade. Absolutely no one was preaching a damn thing about monopoly rather instead everyone dunking on anything that didn't have Intel inside stickers stuck onto the machine. Rather funny how the monopoly message is being touted as stupid as it is to believe AMD would actually become a "MONOPOLY" in the first place for that to happen Intel will have to go bankrupt and guess what they just got a major pay out courtesy of the American dipshit taxpayer. Intel shills need not worry their deity is fine and has plenty of sway as well as mind share. You people need to step outside and touch grass once in a while. Call me when AMD starts getting corporate welfare from the U.S. taxpayer then you might have an argument about monopoly
Well depends on actually what Intel is, it's fighting spirit, moral practices..Intel having bad times but have no doubt it will fight way up. We don't want monopoly on market neither of Intel nor of AMD. Beside anyone else like ARM/ Kirin shud be welcomed with open arms. If we look back Intel never acted as roadblock to opensource technologies on the contrary to nvidia, once had it's Linux distribution.On other hand same goes with AMD when it narrowed down to Linux Nothing is better than AMD on GPU side coz of its opensource drivers. Intel coming up with GPUs now it's gonna be fight worth watching. Wish bother companies goodluck.Options are always good. No matter what's our personal bias is.
@David Jones what's nm?
The fanboys can fight it out, I don't care. When it's time to upgrade, I'll buy whatever is best for my budget and needs. If that's Intel, AMD or Nvidia, I don't really care. It's time people start making corporations work for their money, instead of treating them like a sports team.
Like he said, "you should not turn hardware into NBA twitter"
@RR AMD had literally 0.8% server market share until EPYC arrived. So what money did they have? Basically none. They now have 14% of the market share. AMD were bleeding money in all divisions, apart from Bulldozer in DIY, so yes, fanboys saved it from doom. AMD did improve as a result of that, making a quality, value rich product in the Ryzen line, then following it up with Threadripper and EPYC. That's why AMD's been tearing apart the market share of Intel in all areas the past 5 years, because of good products and a sound strategy for improvement into the future, unlike what Intel did with 14Nm++++++++. 😎👍
@Loo wick Not true. AMD have done all tiers. Look at Ryzen 3000. You had Ryzen 3 (3100 & 3300X), Ryzen 5 (3500, 3600 & 3600X), Ryzen 7 (3700X & 3800X) & Ryzen 9 (3900X & 3950X), and all of them were priced better than the equivalent 10th gen Intel parts with equal performance, as shown from the reviews 3yrs ago. On the GPU side, AMD was still on RDNA1, only focused on low-mid tier (5500-5700XT)Because of this result and market share increase, it FORCED Intel to shift their pricing or lose more market share. In 2017 when Ryzen launched, Intel was the premium brand. In 2022, Intel is considered the budget brand. 😎👍
@The Maf Garage " number of fanboys who did buy them kept AMD alive long enough for Lisa Su to come along and save the company with Ryzen. "Thats not fanboys, thats AMD making money on other products in any way they can. unless you are trying to tell me fanboys are huge part of the market which they arent. they didnt save amd, and nobody needs to buy subpar products just so a company can survive. either provide value or gtfo, if it wasnt for fanboys amd would have had to improve a long time ago same for intel, you arent doing the consumers any favors. especially intel that makes a fuckload of money even if its consumer cpus dont sell well.
This is the way.
Gordon and Steve have such incredible on camera chemistry, love it
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I worked at Intel in AZ in the "Inventors of Tomorrow" Paul Ottolini era. Yes, there were a lot of really bright people there working the the trenches on x86. But there were so, so many absolutely clueless department managers and marketing people pushing dead-end projects eating up the money and resources that x86 generated. Intel actually had a process to handle and bury the continual failed efforts of chasing whatever was making press by others at the time. Set-top boxes, in-vehicle infotainment, dev tools, motherboards, digital signage, embedded, gaming/Larabee/Havok, AI, mobile, whatever Google, Yahoo(?!), and Apple were seen to be doing... I have no doubt that there was a crypto mining project that ate several hundred million before it was buried. That would be typical.They would pour millions into these projects, have them fail, then kill them and destroy any and all memory of the work, to be dumped in a landfill, leaving customers hanging and the talented employees to scramble to find the next dead-end project within six months or be let go. Remember the OCC motorcycle (that never worked) that the embedded group had built? Will_i_am as a "visionary" director? There were hundreds of these for every x86 success. Managers and sales guys focused on their vested stock price going up so they could cash out and leave (it never did). Inept, backstabbing old guard management screwing up and then moving on to the next failure. It was everywhere. They had faith that their chip fabs would always keep them on top and now even those are dying.What is happening now is depressing, but not at all surprising. Somewhere, Bob Noyce and Andy Grove weep.
That's a historic issue with most tech hardware companies. They run way to traditionally top-down. They need to embrace more of a 3M style culture of "the right person on the right job, let them work and support them with resources". Intel is more... bureaucratic. AMD less so, but still leans towards that red tape structure.
@Taekwoncrawfish Takes one to know one?
Hahaha this guy worked as a janitor
@EngineeringVision No I think its not common at this scale. I've worked for a number of companies over the years and I've not seen any other that will sink so much into not one, not two but a whole bunch of new ventures and then just drop them all. And the one I'm particularly familiar with was pretty much doomed to fail from the start because from the inception it was ill conceived and very badly managed.
AMD is likely to be the same. It's not an uncommon thing in a corporation
I love Gordon. Every video he's in w/Steve makes it even more awesome, ha.
To be continued after the next pandemic.
The second half was fucking UNHINGED haha. Loved it!
Never forget how long Intel gave us small incremental improvements year after year when AMD wasn't competitive. If AMD continued to dominate Intel significantly year after year they would end up doing the same thing Intel did for many years. Competition benefits everyone. If you're in the market you buy whatever is best for your budget whether it's Intel or AMD.
You lot are forgetting something. It takes 5+ years to bring a CPU from conception to the market. You probably don't have enough insight into the competitor to predict them ahead like that, or the competitor isn't doing so well on the opsec front. Competition doen't work like boxing on a product level, it only does like this on a price level. In the substantial strentches of time when Intel brought out products that were minimal incremental improvements they weren't jusy holding back, they were incapable of producing something better. Just like AMD was incapable of making a good product for numerous stretches of history. It hits both companies, just the nature of things.And there's always a degree of competition against self, against products people alredy have in their hands. Your prior gen products.
@Zodwraith You’re so full of crap it’s hilarious, and you accuse those who disagree with you of being fanboys.
@shinysuitx so what there is a monopoly in the market and AMD could skyrocket the price just because they can? Yeah, who cares
@Valentin I mean it'd be good in the short term perhaps, but not in the long term, beacuse then AMD would have no incentive to innovate and keep prices competitive.
@jesh at 1/3rd less power consumption at a minimum. As soon as Intel refused to shrink their die they lost ground.
I want Intel to succeed in graphics so we can have a 3rd competitor and drive the prices down. That's what everyone should wish for. Drivers will always improve with time.
Yall trippin pick one or the other and be quiet I chose BOTH intel and AMD parts for my system, cry babies
Intel's got the drives and fabs too. It's a good combination of products to boost innovation if they try.
@Gurvinder Parmar OH yes, ignore the fact they have released all mid range and high end gpus in the same pricing brackets as Nvidia over the past 7 years.
Competition is good. Monopoly is bad.
@John Black He just trying to bring his fanboyism to AMD without looks like being AMD fanboy, that's how pathetic and desperate he is.
15:07 sounds like exactly what Intel did between the 2000-series and the 7000-series. Miniscule improvements for years and years while amd couldn't bring a single memorable product to market.It's crazy how some people act like they'd like to return to that time, only with a different company at the head of it. Those were not good days.
"I would disagree with the internet", said Gordon. For the upteenth time in twenty years of disagreeing with the internet.
The current Intel GPU launch reminds me of the AMD RX400 series pitted against the Nvidia Pascal but somehow worse. The bad timing for the launch, mediocre software, and a reverse launch problem. Releasing the lower end first automatically makes the tech media optics less than favorable. At least AMD was wise enough to "read the room" so to speak, at the time. They knew they could make something valuable to the current market by releasing something that was truly tempting at the time, for the price. From my perspective, Intel wished that the shortages would continue to justify their current price (blame crypto). They were wrong. If Intel can reach price expectations with the current used market in mind, keep building on their software improvements, they would be considered a savior for the budget folks who enjoy new tech. Like many budget builders, I'm pressing x to doubt.
Gordon is an OG, I remember reading his game reviews in PC World back in the Day and always being excited to get my hands on the New Demo Disc's included in the magazines...ahhh the old days.
I love when the GamersNexus podcast comes out once every two years.
@J Hemphill No criticism, gentle ribbing at worst, if anything I want more videos like this!
@J Hemphill touch grass!!!
@J Hemphill This is gentle sarcasm. I'm surprised you survived the internet thus far if you can't handle that.
@scalarmotion You are correct, thank you.
@Dane Roschen they're in the video description
The only "thing" I remember Intel doing was anti-competitive actions by hiking up prices for PC mfgrs that also bought AMD in the mid 2000s and lowering prices for mfgrs that went Intel-exclusive.
@czdaniel1 All CPUs have core-shared resources. FX had more than usual. I don't think it was deceptive of them at all, and i know the legal ruling disagrees. I'd be also be the first person to admit that they were spectacularly bad cores for the time when they had to compete, but still the scaling was good, the impact from shared ALU bits was really minimal.
My least favourite is icc and ipp detecting that you have a non-Intel and deliberately killing rich expressive instruction set branches of code. See Agner Fog on that one, keyword "Cripple AMD".
@czdaniel1 You got me at the first half not gonna lie 😂
@RunningInThe90s -- Hey, that AMD Fx-8350 had 8-cores!!! Intel only gave you 4-cores! The R9-390 graphics card was more than just an already-hot AF 290x toaster-Oven with more power pumped through it....They changed the materials to be able to run hotter! Total Innovation! _(Sarcasm Alerts)_
@BonkedByAScout AMD also being anti-competitive like selling rebranded CPU or GPU which is from 2 years ago then named it as "new" products while having the same performance with their products from 2 years ago but now with less features and more prices. Still people acting like AMD "never" did anything shady, how pathetic people these day.
My "intro" to Intel had been with a 3770 & then a 4770k for years. Up to that point going to Ryzen it felt like a "new lease on life" lol, that said, for as much as I hated that 4770k; you need competition in the space. Were it not for Ryzen we'd be paying $450ish for a quad core. Because, to intel's eyes you don't need more. The same is true with AMD if there isn't good competition, they'll up the price & not innovate unless there's a demand by way of your competition either competing in value or in performance if not both (and that's the best sort of combo we ALL like to see).
*Steve you should start podcasts, on this channel.*Your conversations with these experts are very intresting and informative. As an tech enthusiast enjoyed watching this video.
I’ve bought Alder Lake half a year ago. I’m happy to see things move on and improve. Hopefully both companies will do great and offer us amazing products.
Gordon x Steve are always the best crossover episodes, especially when you get a bonus cameo when a wild Ian appears. Keep being classy, guys! 😎
The holy Trinity of PC nerds in one place. I would love to hang out with these 3.
Good to see Gordon and Steve talking tech.
What ZivPC says is spot on. Love the collabs, especially when they are more serendipitous.
@charles widmore I'd believe it. His PhD was in connections. /j
fun fact - Ian is actually a Gatekeeper for all internet tech releases and is quietly observing over 95.7 of all reviews as they are recorded.
My first ever build had a Cyrix 686-166. Probably very few people remember them now.Then I switched to AMD when the alternative was a paving slab sized Pentium II, up through to their egg-fryer Pentium IV.Then when Intel Core came out, I switched to Intel.Now I'm back with AMD.I'm sure I will switch again at some point.
I had a cyrix m2 266. It was absolutely terrible!!! Everything ran way better when I got a Celeron 633 even with awful windows me.
Similar story with me except I started with (brand new as opposed to a used 286 and 386) an AMD DX4 100. I remember moving on to a K6 2 450 followed by a Duron 800. Stayed with AMD until the Core i5 2500K. Now I'm running Zen 3.
Oof I've had one of those too at least m1 is a good thing nowadays 🤣🤣
This! Except mine was an AMD 286 clone.
i had the same shitty Cyrix CPU :D
Love seeing Gordon and Steve discuss topics like this. 🙂Still remember listening to the Maximum PC podcasts and his rant sessions! Always looked forward to those!! 😂
True story: once upon a time there was a company called Kodak that made photographic film and cheap cameras to use that film in. In 1975, one of their engineers invented the digital camera. Then Kodak sat on it, because film was the most profitable part of their business, and digital would kill that. Also, it would take more money invested in R&D to make a marketable product. They didn’t see the need, they were on top of the market, so they didn’t do the innovation. Fortunately, eventually other camera companies saw an opportunity and went ahead, but perhaps as much as 20 years of development time was lost. Kodak wasn’t a total monopoly though, like AMD would be if Intel went out of the CPU business, or vice versa…just a really dominant company in that sector. Can you imagine how stagnant CPU and chipset development, or GPU development, would become if there was no competition? If one company “wins”, we all lose. I’m rooting for Intel to take a substantial lead with Raptor Lake, so we can see both companies really push hard to bring better products to market.
Once upon a time kodak is still a shitty billion dollar company
@MrOffTrail basically an asshurt reply because ultimately, you found out I was right😂🤣😂🤣
@TheGohthecrow don’t worry, I remember your rather odd claim that AMD was “China”, by which I assume you meant AMD was owned or controlled by Chinese citizens, corporations, or the PRC government, or their chips are all fabbed in mainland China, none of which are the case. As to ATI, they are a no-longer extant _Canadian_ company founded by *Canadians* who were of Asian ethnicities. Sooo, are you just so racist that a company AMD bought out years ago, which had Asian-Canadian founders, has resulted in your eternal enmity towards the company that bought their IP and assets? Then how do you account for Jensen Huang, CEO of Nvidia, being Asian-American? Or maybe you aren’t racist, and you have some secret knowledge that AMD is controlled by the Chinese Communist Party or their supporting oligarchs? If so, by all means, stop being coy and post the links to this info.If we were talking Apple, I’d say you could make a point that their production in PRC funnels gargantuan sums of money into the Chinese economy, which supports a tyrannical regime that carries out widespread human rights abuses, including genocide, and is threatening its neighbors and free navigation through international waters. But we aren't talking about Apple, we are talking about AMD, Nvidia, and Intel, and you are nattering 9n about some conspiracy theory about AMD. I fail to see how AMD has substantial links to PRC that would warrant a desire for them to fail..Besides, the whole point of this discussion was _one corporation shouldn’t “win”_ because then we all lose. If that isn’t obvious to you, maybe go read Adam Smith to get a handle on why that is.
@Dragons Paradox bruh gtfo. Go to China then if you love communism. Religion isn't even forced in the USA like how Muslim & other shit are outside the USA. Miss me with this religion BS. You probably racist too I bet. Are only whites atheist too? 🤣😂🤣😂😂
@TheGohthecrow reality is atheist and science is power. reality matters to collective survival, philosophy, purpose and law. intelligence wins the armsrace, the US Empire is going down.
I have supported AMD for a long time because with out them we have a single supplier. They have only been less abusive because they have been in second place for so long. As soon as they catch up the prices shot up. Like any public company their share holders come first.
@Cow Rocket okay there is a huge asterisk on what you said. No law, at least in the U.S. or Europe forces publicly traded companies to charge the most they can for their products. Companies are given a lot of leeway in product pricing and courts are always wary of second guessing the companies
They are required by law to put the share holders first.
It's worth remembering where AMD was in 2010 - 2018. AMD was the budget option, worked their asses off to get competitive with NVIDIA and today are a viable counter to the competition. Intel needs to do the same. Take a loss on cheap GPUs and invest in getting the best product out there in the next 4-5 years.
AMD's CPU division wasn't in a bad spot with the Phenom II back between 2009-2010... The AM3 platform was a good alternative to Nehalem and the Core 2 chips. 2011 is when things got really bad for AMD on the CPU side of things.RTG was in a pretty good spot until Nvidia released Maxwell back in 2014.
I wish Steve had the time to do a monthly podcast with other people from the industry like Gordon. Always love these conversations, especially when they go off topic haha
Guys, this is fantastic. I just love both the flow of this conversation and the information and subjets you´re discussing. Thanks!
What Gordon explains, is the same idea as the infinite game: there's never a winner of the game, but you will see different rounds where one wins over the other, and players come and go over time. The rounds in the game are unlimited. I am rooting for Intel on the GPU side just to get the GPU prices lower and have more competition. Ideally, if they find ways to improve performance, efficiency and feature sets, then it's even better. It's annoying to see a single player with pricing power, where the second player in the game just cuts the price by 20-50 USD compared to the competition. Without a third player in the game, there isn't any incentive to go that much lower.
Always love having Gordon on even if I don't really agree with some of his industry takes.
Stay classy Steve and Gordon, love ya guys. Thanks for the AMD coverage.
In 2019 I brought an Intel base laptop because at the time Intel was giving the best price-to-performance in the tier, a few months ago I brought a new laptop that's AMD based because the tides have turned and they are giving the best price-to-performance ratio. I think everybody should be thinking along the same lines, whoever gives you the most for your money go and shop with them, fuck brand loyalty
These guys are having such a great time, i laughed so much 😁
One of the huge reasons GN appeals to me is because of how Steve, you remind me of Gordon in terms of your professional approach and review style to the PC industry. I read MaxPC back in the day and listened to their podcasts before Clip-Share was a thing. Would love to see more of these collaborations. Great work!
I have a box full of demo CD's from early/00's from Max PC, PC Gamer and Computer Gaming World. Just flipped through some and there's a few full OG games there.
Oh my God, I've wondered why Gordon's voice has always sounded so familiar to me. I remember it from the podcasts!
Always great videos when Gordon rolls in. :) You probably helped him extend his life expectancy by freeing him to swear on camera... major stress relief. :)
If Intel didn't have a 5 year plan where they knew the first couple-few years they were going to be not competitive at all they were very shortsighted. Hopefully they have the war chest and fortitude to keep grinding. Look at AMD, they have pretty good GPUs and it's taken them 10 years to get where they are, which is still a low market share compared to nVidia.
The issues with intel seems to me to be internal, and I think that can be seen from the change in their management and this bizzario GPU launch. I feel their CPU architecture may be so bloated and outdated, that its going to take alot of work to get it back on track. And with this GPU kerfuffle they've probably soaked up alot of development time and money from their CPU division. Ontop of that Intels' investor call was dodgy and they've been pretty tight lipped about all their CPU news, which means they know they're screwed. the harder they try the more they trip over themselves and chips get released with software compatibility issues or otherwise have incomplete drivers. these are all things I would think would drive down both consumer and investor confidence... so I would think if raptor lake doesn't have a clear advantage over ryzen9 then they need to seriously drop prices just to lower inventory and buy enough time to actually create something not rushed.
In Gordon’s defense, we all lost track of the passage of time since 2020.
It's difficult for me to imagine Intel got into the GPU game thinking that their first generation was going to be successful. Or even the second and third generations. If they actually did you'd really have to question the intelligence of their executive team. I suspect they know they're going to lose money for awhile and will stick with it, but I guess you never know where the winds of internal company politics will take things.
@Eric Conrad Intel gets into a lot of lines of business thinking they are going to be successful then completely bails a couple years later. So its far more likely they underestimated the risk. This isn't even their first try in GPUs, they have had their own line of graphics before (which always sucked).
This is the same executive team that doubled down on pre-EUV lithography and waited decades to jump into the GPU market.
Intel should have started at the LOW END, and focused on delivering something like being the card most optimized for video decoding/encoding, or something and first taken all the marketshare away from say everything up to the GT1660 and RX6600. And become the default board included inside all pre-built PC's from HP, Dell etc. They could have probably pulled THAT off. Trying to compete against the high end, not so much.
@Chris H They have to focus on many different things because they have a vast variety of people who do very different things. Them focusing on GPUs doesn't take away anything from the fabs and it arguably improves their partnership with TSMC
I think the challenge is wasting wafers on an unsuccessful product when they are having issues catching TSMC. Back when 14nm or 12 was as good as it gets, it was worth risking the investment. Now, it seems like getting their fabs up to snuff is a bigger focus.
We're all disappointed that Intel is stumbling with their GPUs, which may actually be DOA and canceled like it never existed. Intel has had very bad internal structure issues for some time, and it sounds like the GPU division was able to BS management to the point of a failed product launch. This is the sort of management failure that led to Intel losing 4 generations fabrication tech lead to TSMC. Intel needs to get their house in order.
This interview is precious. I'm glad that I'm not the only one sick and tired of dealing with fanboys. There's nothing to gain without competition in the market place. Who wants to go back to years of Intel stagnation in CPUs and Nvidia price gouging during the Turing Days?
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AMD really did a great job with their chiplet design, it increased yields and made it cheaper to manufacture, also AMD keeping the same socket since Ryzen released really kept people on the platform. Intel's monolithic design is more expensive to manufacture since yields are significantly worse, Intel releasing new chipsets frequently doesn't help either. What stopped me from buying into Alder Lake was the efficiency cores, I didn't want to put up with any issues that may come up because I play allot of older games such as Command and Conquer with the CNCNet UI mod. That's why I decided to stay with my 3950x till Ryzen 7000 series released but now since the newer V-Cache 7000 series chips will release Jan next year I might even hold off till then. Brand loyalty is a ridiculous concept, just buy whatever you can afford or the better deal for your particular application. I've owned Intel chips since my Pentium 2 233mhz but am I specifically loyal to Intel? No. Because I needed more cores but the replacement 9980xe for my 7820x was $3000, I got my 3950x, motherboard and 64gb of Ram cheaper than just the 9980xe was priced at. I then sold off my x299 platorm to recoup some of the cost, yea sure I missed out on a few cores and lanes but the Ryzen platform was significantly cheaper and that is why I went AMD. There was no bias or brand loyalty involved in my decision at all.
@RunningInThe90s I never made price comparisons to now, I simply stated the reason why I went with AMD when I did. The 3950x was significantly cheaper than the 9980XE $1219 vs $3000. Intel ripped people off for years so AMD isn't doing anything Intel didn't do, you also need to consider the inflation level currently. We don't know anything about 13th Gen at this point but willing to bet prices will be similar unless you buy an i5 13400 or i3. Everything is more expensive now, food, petrol, electricity, gas, that's inflation for you. I'll be sticking with AMD due to socket longevity, I hope Intel offer socket longevity but I highly doubt it, its not their style.
@Hardcore Hardware Sure if you buy AMD because they are "cheaper" but your opinion has a big flaws because AMD CPU really isn't cheaper anymore compared to what Intel can offer with Alder Lake or even Gen 13 like Raptor lake.
Love seeing Gordon in stuff wouldnt mind seeing him more
Coming from a longtime AMD fan, I want to see Intel launch successful products. While ot was nice to see AMD have the top CPU but we also see what happened with prices and discounts until 12th gen launched. The consumers are the people who win with more competitive and better priced products.
I think Intel's going to keep slowly loosing market share as long as they keep their current ultra-segmented pricing strategy. They have run multiple great products into the ground with it and I don't see it stopping until they shrink by a massive margin.
It was just a yes or no question Gordon, hahahahaha When Steve and Gordon are together, it's going to be a great video!
I do hope they continue with GPUs, they just need an entirely new Driver team in order for it to work out.As far as CPUs, its a fair battle for now. A lot of trading blows. which is good.
The total platform costs are escalating. Given increased motherboard prices and high prices for DDR5, this is going to be a really competitive period. AMD price increases have eaten into some of their appeal. Personally I may stay on AM4 until Zen 5 and Intel 14th Gen and reevaluate then.
@aceofspades yeah, people shit on Intel by saying "bUt nO uPgRaDe pAtH" forgetting AM5 will be pricey as hell, and most likely buggy for a while. no one smart is buying an expensive z690 mobo, check pcpartpicker for deals like Asrock B660M with heatsinks for $90 or open box in a Microcenter. for Intel you only need a decent 3200mhz ddr4 kit on a non-K CPU or 3600 on K (raise VCCSA if you want to run 3600 at gear1). 3200 XMP runs on gear1 without any tweaks even on i3.
@aceofspades that would mean a platform jump for me from AM4 to Intel. If I’m going to have to jump platforms anyway, I am more interested in what I’d gain in the platform upgrade. Essentially as an AM4 user now, I think I can get enough out of AM4 for at least one more generation before I think about moving to a new platform/socket. That’s kind of amazing.
Smart decision all around. 14th gen will finally adopt CPU chiplets like AMD. First gen on a new platform is overpriced and full of bugs. New DDR5, PCIe5, chipset, cpu architecture, maybe a new GPU too if you go that route. It's going to be a mess on both Intel and AMD.
@sfalpha Gamers have learned to be patient too. I'll be interested to see how actual sales look in the last Q of 2022.
I think AMD thought well about that already and will not introduce Budget Ryzen 3/Ryzen 5 on AM5 platform until 2023. It may release more Budget Ryzen 7000 series but with older Zen3+ cores and 6nm nodes on AM4 until DDR5 is mature and cheap enough.
Ok, it's been too long for one of these. I miss it. Thanks, Steve.I will have to say that with CPU's, Intel seems to be fine BUT.... efficiency can't be ignored at this point in the market, particularly with power consumption and thermal management on all of the cores. I wonder if Intel focuses on honing that in, because I feel that they need too. They are not the only ones in that boat, the rest of the industry seems to be focused in on that but it is particularly acute with x86/x64 platforms with Intel looking rather bad when it comes to power consumption and thermal management, even when compared to AMD (whom has work to do here as well).GPU's, honestly... Gordon's fear with Intel is well founded. This is far from their first attempt into the market and honestly, I do think that their is an issue with expectations that they didn't set. That said, they just got to sit down and take the L while making improvements quickly, not really easy when enthusiasts are expecting the Intel equivalent of a 3090 in their rigs at half the price and triple the performance. That said, this is an expertise that Intel has been investing in for the server market... and servers are where the money is.... I don't think that Intel is going to let this go, but it going to take two or three generations to hone in and 'get gud'.The only other question with that is are enthusiasts going to be willing to wait that long? Because the way that I see it, money maker or not, enthusiasts is only going to give Intel so much rope to hang itself with and I suspect that it will be short.
“Don’t be a hater, Internet: be classy.” - Gordon Ung 2022“If you want to go on the Internet and type some sh***y a** sh**, just to be sh***y to someone, don’t do it!”Also Gordon Ung 2022Words to live by.
Gordon predates the Internet and he'll outlive the Internet. The Internet is but a fruit fly on Gordon's nose.
The plus point with Intel will always be it's validation strategy... I've used GF, TSMC, Samsung and Intel PDK's... only IBM ever matched them, the others are far behind when you need that absolute reliable and rock solid operation.
Great interview and I love and adore Gordon's stance
I really think Gordon accurately addresses the problem of people getting personally attached to their favourite company's products. The amount of sheer saltiness when legitimate competition emerges is saddening.
If history teaches us anything, it should be that no company is "too big to fail". I would really like for Intel to keep up with competition in the CPU space, and to become competitive in the GPU space. However, I don't think Intel is 'guaranteed' to exist in a decade, unless more government bailouts come.
Looking at their stock, the market agrees. They see something coming, probably a dividend cut.
"Too big to fail" means no one can save you when you do.
don't forget market elasticity though. there is a reason why semi monopoly stays in business for sooo long.
Motorola bares to mind with their 68000 lineup, they were once the indisputed kings after dethroning zilog
Fantastic collaboration! Definitely need to have Gordon and Ian (TechTechPotato) guest starring more often!
I thought Intel wants to have an own GPU because they want to have something that they can integrate with laptops and SoC. If that is true I can see them being okay with taking some losses while developing their first round of that GPU. I think they beta test and bugfix it in the market. That would explain why they sell them so cheap. I also think their target is not gaming but productivity like video editing.
Collabs with Gordon are awesome! Please do more videos with the PC World crew!
I love this guy, please release the uncensored version 😂. I wanna make it my caller tune 🤣
There is hype and then there is reality. Look forward to seeing the new AMD processor offering.
I'm perfectly happy seeing healthy competition. The ideal situation for consumers, is to see Intel and AMD leapfrogging each other with each release, and that's exactly what we're seeing now. It's likely AMD will take the lead back when Ryzen 7000 comes out, and hopefully Intel takes it back again with 13k series, until AMD does a Ryzen 7000+ refresh, etc.
I think the optane based drives had potential, vs the small drive ram thing. The drives were powerful.
I would enjoy Steve and Gordon live, maybe once a month, doing what they're doing here. That'd be hilarious
Thank you Gordon, that was fricking hilarious. Really needed a laugh
love this dude. bring him on more pls!
I really really hope Intel stays in gpus market bc even with AMD already in , NVIDIA still dominatingthis Google mentality should go for ever
I am happy that AMD is once against competitive with Intel; however, I will purchase the best for the dollar. I was a Core-2-Quad(this cpu was fantastic for years), then Ryzen 1600 to Ryzen 5600X. If it was not for pricey motherboards, last spring, I would have picked up an Intel 12th gen cpu.
This is hilarious. Love it.
I agree with Gordon, Optane being killed off was unfortunate to hear. I work with them daily in my work and they are a great tech.
I want to see Intel hedt come back. Hopefully in a few gens. AMD making threadripper only a a thing for "professionals" is going to leave a gap in the market for them.
11th gen Intel was released just to please shareholders mostly I feel, you've got to release something for investors to invest and get something back
Despite how serious some of these comments are, I just enjoyed hearing both of you just shoot the breeze. Could almost be an occasional podcast, could call it "Shooting the breeze, with Steve and Gordon."
how about "shooting the sub-sandwich with steve and gordon"? lol
I owned both Intel and AMD parts and also Nvidia parts throughout the years, but I choosed AMD in the end. As usually they're the best bang for your buck and I never had any major issues with AMD products, nor with Intel or Nvidia products, my main use case is gaming a LOT so I can't speak for content creation or anything else.
from what intel has been saying graphics isnt a 2 year plan, its more like a 20 year plan.i really hope they pull through eventually, and they probably have to to stay relevant in the long term.it would be really stupid to pull out early
I think in terms of raw performance in gaming, Intel might still have the upper hand as always. But I think in terms of sustainability and efficiency, AMD will still beat Intel in these disciplines. Especially the first issue is significant to me as a consumer. Being able to stick with one motherboard for at least three release cycles is good, given they don't screw it up like with the first gen, where EPROM size was a factor in the end. The second point might look like a lesser issue, but even 50 watts lower in average consumption means about €50-100 saved per year in energy costs, given the uptime and use in my scenarios.As for their GPUs, I think with the upcoming generations of AMD and Nvidia GPUs, the best advice I have for Intel is to apply for the UN World Solidarity Fund.
Those new AMD CPUs hit 5.7 GHz. Will be interesting to see AMD v intel.
I still use Intel as my place of business when it comes to desktops and laptops. OEMs are STILL not giving the same engineering time to AMD hardware and I've run into so many little issues with drivers, firmware, even down to some weird cable arrangements causing REALLY odd crashes and such.for example... Lenovo T13 Laptop. Used a to VGA (Docking Station) to HDMI (Monitor) (don't ask why) and it caused a Kernel Memory Fault on a near daily basis. It wasn't until about 2 months in that I found out this cable with AMD systems caused this issue. Intel systems worked just fine. Drove me absolutely freaking insane.
They might be losing/have lost their technology edge, but they're still huge. They still have a sizeable lead in key markets, and are making money. I'd love to be as screwed as they are.Now, that can eventually change. They're less solid than they used to be. But they built a hell of a cushion to fall back on.
@Jordon B all US chip manufactures are..so AMD's global foundries is as well
@Rhaz of Rheos ...?its been changing since ryzen/threadripper where you been lol amd has been taking server market from intel ever since and its only increasing intel is still up high, but they have already started the fall
Making money? Ayylmaoo Intel for the first time in decades posted loss or negatives..............
@Rhaz of Rheos But that is the thing though isnt it? Just because Intel has the market NOW does not mean it cannot be taken from them."Unless AMD somehow manage to convince standard company brands to switch OEM" - Apple was buying from them not too long ago, then they said "You know what we can do chips better" and ditched Intel. Of course this is an extreme example, but it shows that tech no position of advantage is secured. Intel is not invulnerable.
Intel and AMD really do need each other for both of them to not have their products become total crap. Gordon is right about that. Hell, this is why even the communist countries that have equivalents of AMD/Intel as public sector don't just have one state owned company doing a specific product class but normally at least 2 or 3 that compete with each other even though they aren't privately owned companies making profits for shareholder. Engineering teams and manufacturers need other organizations to compete against for sales otherwise technology stagnates.
I actually thoroughly enjoyed this video collab. You should do more one both channels
Awesome video Steve! Please don't wait two years to do this again. So good with Gordon! Classy Shit! 🤣
We need f*cking more of this. This was amazing 👏
Hell yeah! Gordon's writing taught me so much about computer hardware when I was a kid. Every day I got ahold of a new episode of Maximum PC was a good day.
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LMAO I love Gordon losing it...and Steve egging him on!
AMD was in the mud for many, many years, anyone remember FX lawsuit? Intel will most likely reinvigorate their market share for their consumers.
Yeah. They sent me $15. 👍
I've bought both major CPU brands in the past. Now-a-days both companys are mostly pretty neck 2 neck competition wise. but I just wish there where even more companys competing in the market; if only to better boost both the overall price 2 performance value & bringing new innovations faster.
It is good to see a competition here,finally, Intel might take CPUs seriously again.
I will NEVER understand the fanboy mentality in GPU's/CPUs.It is every where.
I acknowledge that reaching higher levels of clock speeds is also an achievement, but hey, next to a 12900 and a 3090 you've spared the cost of central heating :-DThis is no good. Those should be sold with mandatory solar panel installation.
My current 'good feelings' about AMD have nothing to do with who has the fastest thing this generation or that it's AMD but that they've been delivering on their roadmap consistently over the last couple of years. I want consistently good products coming down the line, even if they are just incremental improvements so they are a sustainable business and stay in the game. Intel had a good result with 12th gen, but 11th gen was really poor. I hope 13th gen is great so they can keep momentum and show their strategy is on track and sustainable and they won't need to do another reset. I also hope they keep in the graphics card business and eat the cost (despite how much it will make the share holders grumble). Starting from way way back was never going to be an instant win (and they didn't do a great job of setting expectations) but they have the talent (and money) to stick with it and make generational leaps. Just look at how AMD graphics was viewed a few years ago, their drivers were appalling and were not in any way a competitive options. With enough drive, Intel can make a space in the market. It might not be at the very top end but hell, I'd love to see a reasonably priced mass-market card that was 'good enough' for the low/mid-range and could sell volume through OEMs, etc.
Gordon is such a cool guy. Love seeing you guys talk shop.
I spent a lot of money on an unlocked intel chip and the motherboard died a few years later.Looked high and low but intel had moved on to a new socket and there were none of mine to be found.After AMD started doing long term socket support, intel will have a extremely hard time getting my money again.
@heickel ramadhan the 3600 is slow in gaming compared to newer cpu's.... not hard to go look at 1080p benchmarks...hell even 1440p it still gets out performaned massively
@heickel ramadhan you're missing one big thing: the 5800x3d won't cost $450 by the time Zen 6 comes out. Sure, you'll get the new tech, but not having to buy a $150+ mobo and at least another $60 on RAM, but likely a whole lot more as DDR5 has a ways to go to match DDR4 on price
@Griffin Well the 400 series boards were like 8 years old at the time and didn't have the physical capability to utilize the new architecture. They've certainly been more generous in support than Intel, no?
@Jason Muir Yeah and then the mobo they likely bought when they got the 1800X hamstrings that 5950X.
@Griffin Yup, and they were initially talking about 5 years of support for AM5 (it was on their website) and now they've cut that down to 3(+) years without clarifying whether all motherboards will be supported.
Gordon just vindicated my choices through time because I just buy the best bang for the buck given my budget at that time. That's why I have both Intel and AMD systems running in my home. Competition is good.
Never expected a Q&A to devolve into a Gordon rant about internet fanboys to be so entertaining!
Love that Ian is there heckling Steve (thanks Steve). Meanwhile Linus is on his couch giving warm takes...
I'm still pretty happy with my i9-10900K that I bought almost 2 years ago. I found a version delided, with liquid metal, and have it OC'd at 5.2 Ghz getting very nice temperatures.
That's actually pretty nice.
Gordon has an amazing personality on video. I want him to be my friend.
Intel did more than "a thing, a decade ago". They did many things that exemplified the slimy, underhanded worst traits of a corporation in the finest tradition of the robber barons of the early 20th century. They were corporate scum for more than a decade and that stain doesn't wash off for some people just because Intel has a shiny new CPU. Zero ethics, no morals, greed beyond avarice, to the point of criminality. I have an Intel CPU, but I understand why some people are still distrustful and/or find Intel morally repugnant.
Can anyone recommend a video where E-cores shown as a great idea or something useful not only in theory?
The mini-ITX rant was extra funny after the sponsor spot.It was a good conversation, I found an answer to every question I've ever had and more.
This video reminds me with days of Zen2 when the same question was asked to gordon: is intel screwed? and the answer was: Intel is more than screwed, screwed is not enough or proper way to describe the situation 😅 (heavily fkd up hard I guess 🤣) yup and that was 2 years ago, but just like yesterday 🙂
Rooting for Intel to lose and quit GPUs is pretty self-defeating from the standpoint of the consumer. As a consumer, you should want to see as many competitors in the space as possible. Allowing a duopoly between AMD and Nvidia is just bad news and the reason why Nvidia and AMD can maintain pricing power and increase prices every year. I want to see Intel succeed at GPUs and offer competition to both AMD and Nvidia.
@wing0zero nvidia already does that, the top performing product can charge more thats how it always it
@ShadowOps Airman1 Source : Trust me who are AMD fanboy
@ShadowOps Airman1 Exactly, if Intel bring out a GPU that is better than the competition they won't be competitive they will charge the highest price for been the current best.
@ShadowOps Airman1 Basic economics. If all 3 of these GPU manufacturers release GPUs that are close to each other, the lower 2 of the 3 of them will drive down prices to outsell the other. The 3rd one loses sales because the profit is now split between 3 companies. Driving the prices further down. Of course this is the ideal scenario, discounting the fact that people are complete consumerist idiots
Depends on the context. Personally, I don't want as many streaming platforms as there are right now that aren't even really in a competition with one another and all of which are trying to charge the same unfeasible price because they know they have a monopoly on the licensed content they hold in order to force you as the consumer to come to them.But in the case here between AMD, Nvidia and Intel, then I agree that having Intel around to trade blows with AMD and Nvidia is much better than them not.Also Skycubix is right, it won't matter if they all use the same chip manufacturer. Need competing FAB's.
Well, there was the age of the infamous vulnerabilities that docket almost 10% performance on some intel chips and an average of 3% in regression because of patches.
if intel could release CPUs that aren't full of security holes, i'd be more of a fan. for now i'm interested in thier GPUS and big fan of their NICs and i'm fan of ATX and it works great for me
Actually laughed out loud more times than I can count. Thanks for sharing a bit of Gordon analysis on your channel! Shut up and BE CLASSY INTERNET! BEEEEP!! 😂😁🤣
Thinking about this Intel vs AMD thing has me remembering when the best CPU you could buy was always from Intell and started at like, 1k bucks. Now the best CPU you can buy looks to cost even less, is from AMD and is I don't even know how much more powerful. Wild.
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Gordon, Steve, this whole conversation was hilarious from beginning to end! Team Red, Team Green, Team Blue --- "NBA Twitter" is an accurate description. "Talking it up" is exactly what these companies want; good or bad! "Talking it up" keeps their names circulating in the global mindset; Doesn't help, Gordon, not you, not Steve, when certain well known youtubers repeat the team red, team green, team blue mantra theme in their podcasts. In the end, Intel will survive. AMD will survive. Nvidia will survive.
...and apple will survive !
It's not just twitter, check out wccftech or videocardz article comments - makes me want to puke. It's just children calling each company like shintel, shitvidia amdumbs and anything else you can imagine.
I'm team RGB lol I'm just interested in good performance and who can get great performance at whatever price point I'm looking at. It's nonsense for people to be acting like teams R, G, and B are sports teams and not tech companies