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Why Commander Cody was Actually a lot Colder than MF’s Realise: Star Wars Tactical Breakdowns #2
Why Long-Time CW Fans Have to Re-evaluate EVERYTHING They Know About Inhibitor Chips [This is Huge]
- Published on Mar 19, 2023 veröffentlicht
- “You know what makes us different from battle droids? We make our own decisions. Our own choices. And… we have to live with them, too.”
- Commander Cody
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Narrators - Cam
Editor - Giorgi
Writers - Alex
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0:00 Spoiler Alert!
1:17 In the Aftermath
3:06 Not So Different After All
8:07 Freedom of Will and Inhibitor Chips
- Film & Animation
Comments • 642
In my head canon, the chips are wearing off. Some clones may notice this change, while others don’t. Most clones like Cody and Gregor may have had doubts about Order 66 and questioned why they followed the order without question, but otherwise stayed loyal because it seemed in that first year that things were still the same even after Palpatine’s speech. To them it was just the Republic without their compassionate leaders. So even when the chips wear off, it’s business as usual until the differences become clear. The Empire phasing them out, executing surrendered enemies, turning on former allies, and so on. But while most clones felt uneasy with some even defecting, there will always be a few like Crosshair who are loyal to a fault to the Empire. Even by the Original Trilogy, there were still a few clones training stormtroopers and in the field. But the rest of their kind as we see is just really incompatible with the Empire. Some clones saw this and left while the rest got tossed out by the Empire which had realized this early on. Even a clone trooper fan like me used to think the clones were perfect for the Empire. Before Geonosis, they were. But then they experienced the galaxy alongside the Jedi who taught them many things. And Palpatine probably saw this happening even when the clones were being made. I mean, why add the growth acceleration? Why not just push back the Clone Wars by a decade? Nope, the clones were meant by Palpatine to be used for the short term. They really weren’t meant to be around for long. And that just makes me hate the Sith Lord more.
@Matthius Köenig It's why I always saw them as more of a "factory reset" to how they were described in AOTC rather than something like full on mind control. For the vast majority of clones nothing would have really changed (Obi Wan had to tell the clones not to destroy the Ryloth villages in TCW for example and the Clones were extremely brutal to the Umbarans) as most didn't form close relationships with a Jedi cause there were so few in comparison, Palpatine just wanted the extra insurance just in case.
@lolroflroflcakesit’s more like a normal person can be manipulated much better than a clone can. It is explained.
With the Inhibitor chips while I believe at this point they are not active to the same extent Post Order 66 which is why a lot of Clones are deserting the Empire or going missing but thier will be many clones especially those who fought in the more brutal battles of the Clone Wars such as Mygetto or Feluciia are were unchanged by the Chip regardless of its status or because of the pure trauma they faced abd resulting PTSD that they are generally more robotic and desensitised to Order 66 and have no remorse for following the Order and are hense extremely loyal to empire.
@CFA With all due respect, I like to point out most of my head Canon is based off Star Wars Canon without too much stuff from my own imagination. Hell, my head Canon is practically backed up for the most part by Geetsly and Generation Tech, two Wtar Wars Clip-Sharers who are pretty analytical when it comes to Star Wars Canon and Legends.
And Disney’s writing when it comes to clone troopers and animated Star Wars shows is better than their writing for live action movies and shows.
I really love the differences between Rex and Cody and their characterizations when faced with the evil of the empire. From the very beginning of Order 66 Rex was guns out resisting and then fighting with Ahsoka to escape in a very physical confrontation.
Meanwhile with Cody you can see he tried to make it work by remaining in service, following orders, and still attempting to bring about peace which he's slowly coming to learn just isn't possible under a truly evil regime. Even when he starts questioning due to his own lingering guilt, he's much more subtle about it - probing Crosshair with leading questions to try to find a like-minded brother, and very obviously being quietly disappointed at the lack of "private traitorous thoughts". Then the episode ends with a very quick, quiet, and efficient going AWOL that no one saw coming.
Really makes you appreciate that Cody, a Commander, was the brains contrasting to Rex's strength and bravery.
@moderndemon84 Read the comment directly above your (edit/correction) last one.
@Tony Jackson Huh?
@Tony Jackson Yeah I do like the argument that Cody was 3000% efficient and effective for every thing he's ever done with the exception of killing Obiwan. I do think it speaks to the fact he resisted in his own way.
There is the fact Cody gave up on finishing Obi Wan off. Every other Jedi massacred onscreen was done with obvious proof. Cody ordered a few probe droids for confirmation(that never came),but didn't go the extra yard.
There's a nice contrast between the two of them. Rex resisted to the best of his ability, but Commander Cody executed order 66 without hesitation. Only for him to realize his mistake later on.
When I watched the scene with Cody speaking with the governor, all I could think was that he had spent to much time with Kenobi and now he was "the negotiator."
Not only negotiating, but he believed every word he said in that scene.
That’s why the rightful gov. Surrendered.
But then Cody is countermanded by literally everyone else in the room, and is shocked.
Ames really doesn’t even seem angry at Cody right before she dies. Just sad.
Idk, it really hit me weird and made ME sad.
@Uhm Uh... Ahhh yes...The negotiator! General Kenobi.
This episode was definitely my favorite in the entire series. It gives a look into the empire and feels a little more mature than the fanatics of the rest of the bad batch
@Unknown Firstly they're short episodes; you can't show everything in the galaxy in 20 minute bites; you need to have tighter focus. Hour long episodes work much better for that sort of exploration.
Secondly, when an empire conquers new lands, the people in those lands experience the negatives immediately, and experience the positives over years and decades. Look at the history of Rome's occupation of modern-day Spain, France and Germany for a fairly well documented example. Something set 5-10 years after the fall of the Republic would be a better place to look at the positives for those worlds but this isn't it.
It would be cool to see Cody see Obi wan again
I hope we get to see more of Cody and other clones who are defectors.
@dancingvalkyrie True. I'm tired of the bad angle on every occasion. The Empire certainly benefitted a lot of worlds, and I wish we could see that more often.
“Did we have any doubts? Any private traitorous thoughts? Perhaps but no one said a word.” - 501st Journal, basically becoming reality for many clones, including Cody.
I think what hurts the most is the idea that Jesse and other 332nd troopers would definitely have deserted if they had just survived a few more months.
nice profile, a member of a squad id like to see in action in the bad batch forsure
If Fives had told both Jesse and Kix about Order 66, Jesse would also be space pirate now
Way to put the hurt on.
Because of Cody’s thoughts on his an other’s actions, expressed in the episode, I wonder if we’ll ever see him regret committing order 66 on Kenobi. I still have my fingers crossed for Cody, Rex, Boil (I think he’s still alive), and Echo back together, one last time.
@Matthew Gordon A completely agree.
@Dogloversrule Both, both is good.
You can clearly see his regret.
I’m hoping he gets the chip removed, and then at some point crosses paths with Obi Wan, so that he learns that he DIDN’T kill his former General (and friend) and gets some peace from having followed order 66. He has been a great character and he deserves a redemption arc.
@Boliveira NTPW It is not a good thing. Canon just keeps making "bad" characters "good" again. They're trying to make the Empire look completely evil, but that is NOT the whole truth. If every character turns to the light side, what is the point of watching it?
I’ve enjoyed this episode. I loved Cody being back.
I’m not going to lie but I thought Crosshair looked sad too, perhaps his willingness to blindly follow orders is an escape/coping mechanism for him
I think so. Crosshair basically admitted as much to Hunter, saying that he stuck with the Empire because then he would be able to keep doing what he was created to do- fight the enemy.
@weldonwin He definitively has the need for a sense of purpose and belonging. What he experiences is more something like an existential crisis, not knowing what or who he is beyond what he was made to be.
The Regs hate him, his commander treats him as a number and his lives in what looks like a storage closet. Before, he had his brothers and now he is utterly alone. All he has left now, is his duty. As I see it, Crosshair has never been loyal to the Empire per say, but more loyal to the chain of command. As he see's it, he's a soldier and nothing else. He NEEDS a war or at least an army to belong to.
I’m guessing he was also sad, because he missed the camaraderie and companionship the bad batch provided and believed he had some of that with Cody, only to then have it end again
I think he's realizing how alone his current path will continue to be as well. Isolated from his own clone brothers, and never full equals to the Imperials either.
Seeing Cody talk to the governor, you can see the years of service with Obi-Wan flowing through Cody. Every word, every action, and sense of honor was Kenobi to an 'i'. And maybe those skills is Cody's way of honoring his former CO and friend, who he realizes *he* betrayed and regrets doing so
I was always led to believe that Cody ended up training new recruits. That’s what I have read everywhere. But seeing him defect made me the happiest man ever because you can tell he’s struggled for a while with his actions. I always found it sad how Cody ended up, but this gives me hope and maybe his story changes from what I was originally led to believe.
You aren't alone in remembering that. I think it was Rex or Wolf that said that. But maybe that was the last they knew.
@klaykid117 exactly, I'm tired of them undermining the movie
Cody only trained new recruits in legends.
In Legends he was the quintessential good soldier able to be joking and friendly with his general Obi-Wan but according to the revenge of the sith novel when the order was given the only thing he regretted was giving him his lightsaber back a minute ago.
And of course before the clone wars cartoon the clones never had inhibitor chips they were soldiers and they followed orders
@MeThinks995 Same. Not everyone deserves redemption.
Still reinforces why i like this particular era of star wars. The clones are unique.
@Alexis Sandoval It's almost like an empire that thinks their soldiers will inhumanly obey and do obviously evil things will suffer from those soldiers bailing out forcing them to need willing soldiers 🤔
Facts, the TV series really fleshed out the clones so much to the point to where they're alike yet different and it honestly makes me want to watch them more and more, it's so interesting and enticing to me, by far the prequel era and the clones are my favorite in Star Wars, I'll always love the original but other than the main 3 movies if I want more filler and fleshing out content prequels era are my go to
Unique in that every named one behaves the same way now. Soon as they get a name, it's "Empire bad me good."
Of all the Clones to go AWOL, I never would’ve thought that it would be Cody.
@Matt Lyon you son of Sith Spawn, why you say that? Why did you put that into the universe.
I don't think he went AWOL I think he was taken for the dark trooper project and they just said he did to cover their tracks
@zach duperron just because he was more by the books, doesn’t mean that he’s blindly loyal. Like Rex, he possess a moral code and when he sees the Empire doesn’t share it, he pulled a Rex and defected. He’s not a facist or blindly loyal, he served with Obi-wan after all.
@The Great Snow Blizzard I hope that is the best case
@James Me too
I REALLY hope that Filoni changed Cody’s ending because he deserves much better even if it’s death.
I'd find it fitting if he simply retired. Not joining the rebellion or anything, or being too regretful of order 66. He was born to defend the Republic and win the Clone Wars, and he did just that, he defeated the separatists and prevented a coup from the Jedi Order. But the Republic was now gone and his job was done.
I might be a black sheep, but I'd hate it if they made Cody a rebel
@Florian Steininger No.
@ultimatepunster Cad Bane *cough*
@ultimatepunster I agree Cody needs a proper send-off. Instead of a imperial saying that he gone AWOL. We don't know if he gotten himself killed by the Empire, imprisoned or just left the Empire without saying a word.
I think it's amazing that the first time we see Cody he's not wearing 212th gold but grey, grey like 104th; Mandalorian grey; mourning grey. I think they were trying to tell us that in his heart, Cody had already reevaluated what he had done and was mourning. Cody had fought and bled beside the Jedi for nearly four years, and realistically he would have come to care for them, maybe even love them, like family. "in war, strangers in a foxhole become closer to you than your brother."
Cody was The Marshal Commander, he spent a lot of time a round the top brass, as they say, he would have seen more than most. he would have seen what the Jedi were really like and seen a side of Kenobi no one else did.
there was real regret there, and he showed it the only way he could: by changing his colors to grey. Even in legends the 501st still kept their iconic blue. Cody chose to don grey, he chose to show to anyone who knew and cared, that he was mourning. this was just the last leg of his journey, he mourned, he evaluated, he made his decision, and he acted. logical, and calculated. men like Cody don't become the head of command without being able to think things through even under emotional stress. Cody had a lot of time to think, and I believe he'd finally had enough, and did the only thing that felt right: he left.
My theory is that the chips were single use. The chances of more than one of the imbedded orders needing to be carried out, let alone needing the influence of the chips to ensure they were carried out, is astronomical. I feel that once the chips were activated they slowly began deteriorating resulting in the clones reverting back to pre-order 66 states.
This was my view as well. They worked very well, but only once. They weren't built to surpress the clones over the long, awful years of Imperial rule. Clones are too honorable
That wouldn’t make sense
This calls back to Tup. His chip decayed when he prematurely executed order 66.
I also think that even with Star Wars’ technology, it’s extremely difficult to hardwire a human brain to do something it really doesn’t want to do. The human mind is incredible, you can see this in how individualistic the clones are even though they’re all made from the same exact genetic blueprint. It was only a matter of time before the clones’ minds would return to reason, and I think Palpatine knew this since he began drafting stormtroopers so quickly.
First they came for the Jedi, and the galaxy applauded.
Then they came for the Droids, and the galaxy applauded.
Now they're coming for the Clone Troopers.
If history is any indication, the result will be the same as before.
"Now they're coming for us, and nobody is left to oppose them."
Then the Empire came for the galaxy itself and there was no applause.
I can literally see it happen.
Man these three episodes have been bangers so far for this season.
We are seeing how the clones are being phased out fast: they’re being used as canon fodder in more dangerous missions. Giving their blood sweat and tears like this one while the new conscripts reap their rewards without so much as a thank you. Imperial arrogance has been portrayed so well in Bad Batch and Andor.
Sooner or later Crosshair will realize the empire doesn’t value him no matter how much he gives.
He doesn't "act like a reg"
He acts like he's better than any reg: "You're lucky I was available."
That's Crosshair's actual personality.
""I'm the best. I don't care if you can't recognize it, or you dismiss me because you can never do what I do. And you know it."
His only regret is that his fellow "special" brothers can't see what he sees: without being soldiers in the most powerful army they are just drifting refugees that will eventually get overrun and killed by an Empire that HAS to expand and crush its opposition.
He's sure he's being pragmatic and the others are just being sentimental.
That's not "stupid evil". It's making a choice when you don't really care that much about who the target in your holographic sight is: as long as you can kill it when no one else could.
Crosshair has a lot of traits of a high -functioning sociopath.
@SilentSpringz I think the conflict will lead to a crack, sooner or later. You can see signs that the life what is infront of him isn't what his innerself actually wants
@Christoph Schubbe he seems conflicted. I just can’t tell its the chip ( I believe its in him still with the evidence I mentioned) or hes just moral stunted. But he basically just acts like a reg full on order 66 mode. But i hope there is more then just’ im evil muhahaha!’
@Nameless RV i never really got that feeling he just goes with it. Maybe he did not cared much about stuff and the chip made it just go extreme. But we’ll see how the story goes
@SilentSpringz It is possible that Crosshair is fully aware (mentally) of the chip's influence etc., but told Hunter and others he had it removed to simply spare them the trouble. For Crosshair at the time it did not matter - he was pretty much loyal with or without the chip, and maybe the little good he had left in him wanted to crush Hunter's hopes. Not to mention he must've felt bitter after being simply left behind, so why would he let Hunter linger on the possibility of him being saved anyway? This way their paths were seperate for good. He most likely still has the chip, but given its effects are wearing off, it doesn't really matter.
Crosshair's loyalty doesn't come from the chip, it's probably a combination of his personality and the betrayal he feels. He lacks purpose and comfort, but knows the Empire will provide for him. So why should he not be blindly loyal? But as Cody pointed out, things are different.
When it comes to Crosshair I believe what matters most are his subtle thoughts than actions. The way he reacts such as when he learned about Cody's AWOL status is what gives him away. However, before he fully goes rogue he will most likely still follow orders, whether out of false hopes of things getting better or simply desperation of holding onto purpose.
I hope that we get a reunion of Cody and Rex I think we deserve that. I just know it’s gonna be heart reaching, sad, sweet, and everything in between but I don’t think I’m ready
I think the inhibitor chips worked off of the release of certain chemicals, once they ran out of chemicals and/or the clone’s bodies started to grow their tolerance for them they lost their effectiveness.
That's actually extremely clever! It would make sense as a working theory given the fact that in the CW series it is mentioned that the chips represent essentially, a bypass to the "self-reflective systems of the brain" once activated, thus making the lcones extremely compliant and impervious to self doubt or self- control in regards to the order they comply with
Hormones chronicles and electricity. It can be more than just an influence. We are the product of all these things
Nah our brain runs on electricity doesnt it? I dont think the chip can exert THAT level of controll by simply rewarding behaviour.
Look at captain rex. The inhibitor chip litterally takes over their brains and warps their perception of reality, and makes it so they dont even realize their being tricked.
The control goes that deep, which isnt surprising since its star wars and its some sci fi stuff lol.
They probably felt that they had full controll of their actions even though it was the opposite.
Kinda like the 2014 robocop.
CC-2224: “Tell me something, Crosshair. This new Empire… Are we making the Galaxy better?”
CT-9904: “We’re soldiers. We do what needs to be done.”
CC-2224: “Well, you know what makes us different from battle droids? We make our own decisions. Our own choices… And we have to live with them too…”
@Leoking I think it's a perfect callback to when he brought up Rex at that spot on the other day. At first he said Rex would never betray the empire it was fabricated but now he realizes what Rex truly saw and understood why, hence why he told Crosshair
@Leoking I was thinking of both Rex and Fives as soon as Cody said that during the episode.
Isn’t he quoting Rex too?!
This episode was powerful, and masterfully written and animated. The backgrounds are gorgeous, the colors are striking, the score is perfect, the writing is intricate. I loved it.
it was over 20 minutes of pure enjoyment, everything was perfect. better then andor or kenobi in my eyes
Pour one out for Nova and Wyler.
@CyDJra 117 True.
@moderndemon84 My bad both are cool though
@CyDJra 117 That was Nova,not Wyler.
I was cheering for Wyler since he was the last regular Clone with Cody and Crosshair he was a badass for a random Clone
@Darren Xero agreed
I was greatly surprised that Commander Cody defected from the Empire. A lot different from the legends one where he stays with the Empire.
@ToastedJawa In the EU, the ARC Troopers had a heavy defection rate. ARCs like Rex would have frequently disobeyed or rebelled later. If they didn't add the Chips, Clones could have still rebelled, and if anything it being a choice would have been more impactful.
@Luca Gerulat without the chips, certain characters and stories that have been fan favorites would've been either impossible to pull off or at least extremely difficult. Rex and the final two episodes of TCW S7, for example. People aren't machines, and no amount of genetic engineering can change that. Especially with such a unique and independent host as Jango Fett. The way I see it, the chips are necessary if clones are meant to still be human enough to outperform a droid in things like situational awareness and independent/creative thought on the battlefield and yet still being subservient enough to execute men and women they've served with for years depending on the clone with no better reason than one claim of treason.
@Kais The Fire Warrior I completely agree I preferred the way order 66 was before the chips came into Canon.
Also may the greater good be with you.
@Luca Gerulat to me it ruins what the movie had set out. The chip is just a scape goat in my opinion.
In legends the clones were less independent from the beginning. And all clones followed order 66 without question and without the inhibitor chip. So considering the changes to the order 66 lore his changed response makes sense.
I loved the scene before he got on the ship and looked around at the city and new troopers. He realized that the republic he dedicated his life to no longer existed.
Everyone is excited about the coming reunion of Rex and Cody, myself included. But you know what else I’m just as if not more excited for, Omega and Palpatine being in the same room.
It looked like crosshairs slowly starting to regret what's happening cause when the office told him Cody went AWOL he looked a bit unsettled
My speculation is the chips had a built in kill switch that would activate after a certain contingency order was executed such as order 66. Once the chips served their intended purpose the clones would go back to “normal” behaviour after the chips deactivated.
We need more of the CIS remnants.
There are a lotttt of planets, listed and unlisted, in the expanded universe lore. The possibilities are endless. Fortunately, we still get quality episodes like this one when they could just spit out the same story on a new planet that all looks the same as the rest over and over again to fill a checklist lol. Many of the unlisted CIS planets get decimated or reformed. There could be a variety of stories about migration or some last stands..maybe more splits between the CIS remnant factions to either give into the Empire for the safety of the whole or factions to keep fighting or hide or join the rebellion.
Another reason i could see Crosshair defect is at the end of the episode when we see him wake up differently compared to the start of the episode
We see that is already awake, perhaps because he has been thinking all night and had a hard time about the words commander Cody spoke to him
If the desertion of the clones was expected, it's no wonder why the clones were replaced by stormtroopers. The clones would sooner or later realize their empire was no better than separatist which would cause unrest among them.
@UGNAvalon I know,I still prefer the chips though.
@moderndemon84 that was before the *3D Clone Wars series (& Bad Batch that followed). -These series made the Clone War child-friendly, and the troopers themselves very humanized/sympathetic. These troopers could never commit Order 66 with the same cold detachment as the pre-3D-series troopers did, so the writers used the chips as a justification/cop-out
But that was before this episode showed us otherwise.
Ironically, Geetsly did a video a few months back about how the late-war (or even mid-war?) Republic was basically no different than the Empire that followed, making it easy for clone troopers to transition to stormtroopers.
The “are we the baddies” type line coming from Cody really shows the conflict. I hope we see more of him
Definitely my favorite animated star wars episode, loved it from beginning to end
Maybe instead of brain rewiring, it's more like brain hijacking. Similar to what happens to the winter soldier except every clone is a sleeper agent instead of just 1.
Tup could've had a faulty chip that would've had a different trigger for different protocols other than 66 and the other one in the 30s.
Like, it puts them in a trance they're aware of. Tup definitely seemed out of it while he was acting out order 66. Then again, faulty trigger.
I loved seeing Cody back and his squad take down a CIS holdout where battle droids high five
Maybe I'm just looking into this too hard, but that scene towards the end: where you saw the remains of the clone squad getting into the shuttle only to see more stormtroopers being dropped to replace them reminded me of a similar scene in IRobot. Where the older models, who served faithfully and without question, were replaced with newer more compliant models. And it's heartbreaking.
The theory that came to my mind is that when it seemed the empire was going to cancel the cloning process, the Kaminoans activated some sort of contingency plan and remotely disabled all clone inhibitor chips.
I’m thinking Cody was allowed to have his chip removed because, let’s face it, NO ONE would expect a by the book commander like Cody to be disloyal. As for Howzer and Wilco’s units, it’s very probable that they weren’t around Jedi when Order 66 was activated (the Jedi were spread to thin to be on EVERY battlefield) so their chips were never activated
I always thought the chip sort of was like a “seeing red” moment in which they aren’t given time to think all they can see is their target. After the bloodshed, those who has Jedi may have come to regret it after order 66 versus those who may have been only a clone liaison like Howzer was shown to be which could explain why he and wilco never flipped since they never needed to kill their Jedi but would remain loyal to their empire until they couldn’t.
Looks like the clone rebellion is possibly going to be cannon! Gotta say the latest episode is fantastic and loved it. Fantastic to see the battle droids make a return, especially the Commando droids.
The thing is, the clone rebellion were new clones, not vets. It's different
My thought is the chip is a little subtle, it makes the clones follow orders, but uses their normal thought processes to do so. The clones in the moment rationalized the decision to follow orders and as they have the opportunity to self examine that rationalization falls apart. In the early aftermath there's a lot of pressure, keep doing what you're doing you need to clean up at the end of the war, it's during the "peaceful" time after that they can start to pick apart the logic, and that makes it harder for the chip to enforce itself.
I hope we get to see more Cody in future episodes of Bad Batch Season 2.
I always thought the chips put them in an immediate trance like state that stayed active until they killed the Jedi they were assigned to. After that the trance would ware off and the clone was left thinking the actions they took were there own, hence why they stayed loyal to the Empire for as long as they did until they weren’t.
Man, I really can't wait to see Rex and Cody reuniting. It's definitely gonna be really emotional
I have been waiting for cody to get more time to shine.
Based on all available information, there might be an option 3: the chips are technically still active, but only for one specific reason: to kill Jedi. While still sticking to your original two, as long as there are no Jedi, as far as they knew & understood, they’re back to their old selves; they’re acclimating to the chips’ reprogramming &, while still following the Order 66 protocol, they’re regaining their senses. Sure, they’re questioning the Galactic Empire, but where in that episode did they question Order 66?
I wish all of the episodes were like this.
This is very interesting. And to use Commander Cody as opposed to other clones who would be more likely expected to challenge the Empire really seals the deal. ^^
As for my thoughts on the revelation, it definitely clears up why some clones in both legends and canon defected from the Empire following Order 66. ^^
And I think Crosshair is questioning things at that point. Thats what I took from Crosshairs and the end of that episode. He's just very conflicted and I think it's a build up to him eventually sacrificing himself in order to do whats right.
I love this episode it's now one of my favorites bad batch season 2
From known experiments by the Germans of wwII the KGB and CIA on mind control we've learned that you can't program someone to do something that goes against every fiber of their being. i.e. while mind control can make you climb to the top of a tall building and stand on the edge, it can't make you jump. The same applies to murder, it very difficult to mind control an assassin. Clone Troopers are a little easier because as soldiers they have less inhibition about killing. Rex resisting long enough for Asoka to remove his chip was a result of Rex being closer to Asoka as a friend than most clones. While the rest of clones knew her, they did not have as much close contact with her as Rex.
Just look at our society today. No matter where you sit politically the other side believes things you do not and vis versa. A chip could get you to do something you bleieve to be true or at least to plausibly fit in with your worldview. The clones were programmed to be loyal to and obey the Chancellor/Emperor. This was part of the Chip, order 66 is a direct order from Palpatine. For the average clone like Cody, The empire and Palpatine are the good guys. I'd say most clones truly believed the Jedi were traitors and it was only events like we saw in s2 EP of bad batch that changed a few minds.
Finally Crosshair seems to be staying loyal to the Empire based solely on the fact he has no where else to go. This is very likely true for most of the clone Regs. As the bad batch pointed out in S1 the Empire provides clones with everything they need, food, shelter ect and clones were not exactly welcome on the civilian worlds.
I loved this episode! It was really, really well-constructed.
What I think is interesting is the facial expressions Crosshair makes when meeting with rampart the 2nd time in the episode compared to the first time.
I always figured more like option 3, though less about the chips dying than the Order 66 part hit hard and really knocked down their personalities, but after order 66, things got more and more tangential to that order on a daily basis and they could therefore develop their personalities again instead of that chip crying for submission all the time.
I feel like the chips kinda were like a big rush of adrenaline or a drug. It was a super effective, un-resistable thing at first that pretty much altered the individual to do the task it needed done. But given time the individual gains more resistance/the effect of the chip is less effective as they adapt to it.
It's so interesting to see, the downfall of the empire wasn't vader killing emperor but the ground level attribute of ladder climbers. How the chipping away allowed things to go unnoticed or unreported, allowing a rebellion to generate. Had clones been put in commanding positions , outcome may not have been so easy
The thing that Crosshair makes me think about is that even though the control of the chips isn’t permanent, that sort of influence doesn’t just go away. It forcibly changed their minds at a critical juncture, and those implanted beliefs and opinions are going to linger.
This is my absolute favourite episode, definitely up with my favourite Star Wars. It reminded me of the cannon Thrawn books a lot and that part with the droideka was so well executed
Me personally I'm so happy that Cody has the potential of a redemption arc here, it's not a secret that he was fiercely loyal to the Republic and to Obi-Wan and seeing him turn the way he did in ROTS hurt like hell after watching the two on TCW but seeing him go from "blast him" to this is extremely powerful and shows that even though they were forced to obey order 66 they lived to possibly regret their actions and want to redeem themselves in some way, I know it's a long stretch but I'd love to see Cody get his inhibitor chip removed and maybe, just maybe run into Obi-Wan while he's in hiding and try to make things right with him, I doubt we'll see anything like that where he does meet Obi-Wan but a guy can dream though
@KS Rebel Buck also the chip wasn't cannon to begin with, it's simply a retcon. The original Cody is from Episode 3 RoTS, trying to change that in anyway is disrespectful to the movie and character.
@KS Rebel Buck Cody meeting obi wan and they become buddies again destroys the scene of order 66. It removes the emotional and sad effect of 66 if Cody and Kenobi just simply become pals as if nothing happened.
@Kais The Fire Warrior Cody was never one to be like Crosshair, he was much like Rex, loyal to both his general and to the republic, yet just like Rex once his inhibitor chip took control he was no longer himself, he only wanted to complete his objective in the order he was given, so if this shows that the chip has either died out or shut off this can be a great way to show how most clones like Cody felt about their actions after turning on their generals that they were so loyal to for so long. That 180 argument can be said either way, they fought under the jedi for years through countless battles but they turned completely just because of the inhibitor chips, eroding away at the history the clones shared with their generals, just because someone has a change of heart doesn't make for bad story telling
It erodes Cody as a character, such 180°s are considered to be bad story telling for the sake of plot. Cody should have had a WAY better reason to go awol, not some dumb thing about peace.
I really do hope they're building up to a clone rebellion
Like the one we saw in Battlefront 2 and legends. Though with rebels as an indicator I have a feeling it'll end in tragedy but it'll be one heck of a fight against the empire
My wife and I both share your opinion on this episode. It's by far my favorite so far and definitely for the adult fans of the show
I think a lot of this makes sense. The incident with Tup and Order 66 kicking in early was probably a defect that the Kaminoans didn't catch until it was to late. When Palpatine heard of this, he easily covered his tracks by framing Fives and using the Corusant Guard to track him down on Corusant and instead of stunning Fives, Commander Fox shot and killed him. That could also be a reason why clones started defecting left and right because after Order 66, they started thinking back to Tup and Fives and started connecting the dots.
One more thing to add. At the end when Crosshair is summoned to get his next assignment. The captain told Crosshair that he’s gone AWOL. Then commented clone loyalty was not was it used to be. The way he voiced his personal opinion on the status of clones was like it happens more and more so it’s no surprise and he’s personally learn to just live with the insubordination. I’m assuming Commander Cody is not the first nor the last to defect from the Empire.
This episode was just absolutely amazing
Just like the Clone Wars, right? Just like the simulations!
But something was different and we all knew it
It was so... quiet
And it was amazing
My head Canon and what I think the Bad Batch is also implying too is that the inhibitor chips wear off over time. I agree with your first idea that the chip's effects weren't meant to last forever since the clones weren't supposed to either. Whether this was an oversight by Palpatine or maybe a hidden intention by the Kaminoans, remains to be seen
I think it would be really cool if the Bad Batch (and Rex) somehow link up with Nala Se on Mount Tantis and she spills some more info about the chips and then that will drive the clone rebellion
I think the shock of what order 66 was, hits the clones hard in varying ways. As previously stated the chip was meant for order 66, and as Cody said they have to live with it. They are dealing with PTSD and most were unaware that they had no choice in the matter. I never thought Cody would defect, but I'm glad he's on that path now.
I always thought the inhibitor chips just drove there loyalty to the republic/empire up to the point to where that’s all that mattered. I believe this because Rex did struggle but once he gave in all he wanted to do was find Ahsoka and kill her, to complete the order
As much as I want Cody defecting being the case, we have to look at the possibility Rampart is using the clones going "AWOL" as a cover story for doing to them what he did to Wilco. Rampart has already proven himself to be both heartless and ruthless enough to do whatever it takes to accomplish his goals.
I think the inhibitor chips are only really strongly active for short periods of time. I would assume there are side effects if the chips are always on- sort of like what that one clone suffered from when the inhibitor chip malfunctioned in the clone wars.
We could possibly see a similar event to the clone rebellion on kamino where awol clones regrouped to fight but lost and scattered which leads why Rex, Wolf and Gregor were alone
I remember reading that Cody didn’t need the chip to execute the order. And has wished he got the order before he gave Kenobi his saber back. And that he stayed loyal and served the empire till he couldn’t by training new recruits. I’m glad they changed his previous perception of the order.
“I used to believe that being a good soldier meant doing everything they told you. That’s how they engineered us. But we’re not droids. We’re not programmed. You have to learn to make your own decisions.”
I really liked when Cody started negotiating with the senator. You could have easily replaced him with Kenobi at that point and the scene would be the same. It felt perfect that Commander under ''General Negotiator'' learned something from him or at least was influenced to a certain degree and even throughout order 66 it stayed with him.
Damn. Does Dee Bradley Baker still cast the voices for the Clones? If yes, I am surprised for the deep tone that cody gave after the mission. Need to watch this asap!
Honestly I think your option 1 possibly of the inhibitor chips. Seem more likely in my opinion. Although I wished they gave whole background story on how Crosshair got his chip removed.
THAT WAS SUCH A GOOD EPISODE I HOPE WE SEE MORE OF CODY LATTER ON
What a great episode. Great themes. Impactful and heavy
I started off this episode not wanting to like it, which is strange because I’ve loved almost every episode of the Bad Batch so far, but absolutely loved how it ended and how the story followed crosshair. Fantastic episode and I hope they continue to explore the individuality of the clones in future episodes. I think it’s part of what made the clone wars so great
Cody broke my heart when he initiated Order 66 and he shot at Kenobe. I’m so glad he’s coming to his moral senses. I hope he can have some closure and reunite with Kenobe.
My personal head canon for the chips is that they simply stopped having an effect on the clones. The clones were so pure of mind that their subconscious fought the chip like the immune system fights a disease, and the chip was strongest when they first activated because it was new to them.
Personally, I would love to see Cody rally together all the other clones who defected and repainted their armor to show all the different clones who chose to resist the empire culminating in Rampart and a few other clone commanders along with crosshair putting down the rebellious clones.
I just want to mention one thing. In Rebels, Commander Wolffe may have regretted his actions but I do want to mention Rex's specific wording regarding Kanan and Ezra: "they're not the ones who betrayed us" which would suggest to me that, regret or not, Wolffe fully believed that the Jedi were traitors due to Order 66, even after his chip was removed.
Also - I wouldn't be surprised if Crosshair defects eventually as well. Maybe he did fully believe in the Empire during S1, but between waiting 32 days to get rescued, having a private discussion with a close ally who is questioning the regime and isn't being subtle about it and then finding out that said ally is no longer with the Empire and having your loyalty questioned by your CO; Crosshair has to be aware that he is just a number to the Empire and that, as much an asset he might be, one day they will just cast him aside without so much as a thanks - hell, they already tried to get rid of him on Kamino.
I hope the story for this season is more linear than the last one
the force theme played in my head when wilco took his stand, same with howzer
officially there never was a clone rebellion on kamino (coz it was blown up, so officially it can still happen somewhere else)
I think this was the best clone vs. droid action I've seen in either The Bad Batch or The Clone Wars.
A detail that offers an additional layer of pain to the position the clonetroopers have put in, is that almost none of them know about the biochips.
So many of them are questioning things, looking back on Order 66 wondering if they made the right decision, wondering how they got where they are, not knowing why they did what they did and why they were fine with it at the time.
There's got to be a lot of dread or shame that arises for someone that suddenly looks back at a very specific moment and sees someone completely different walking around in their shoes.
I hope Cody meets Obi wan again and possibly saves him from the empire or at least Rex
@ZELINA right, I feel like that series ended where it should, there's no real reason to drag it out further. Obi-Wan set out to save Leia from kidnappers and, by extension, the Inquisitors and Vader. And he did, while also resolving some personal demons by confronting Vader directly and coming to terms with what happened on Mustafar. In the era of the Empire, I think Kenobi should be limited to one-off appearances like Rebels moving forward.
@Darren Xero „Season 2“ it was a LIMITED SERIES, ya know?
Fingers crossed for Obi-Wan season 2 where old Cody finally found Obi-Wan & took the opportunity to make amends for Order 66
My guess is that the chips were also like the nanomachines in MGS: They suppressed psychological trauma temporarily
I feel the chips were like a dose of drugs almost, when taken they have an immediate effect on the clones near forcing them to act, but overtime the effect wore off and they realised what they had done, like after a fit of rage you feel regret, the chips forced following orders to be the most important thing over everything else, then it wore of and they felt regret.
I really really enjoyed this episode. It's nice seeing the former "bad guy's" and the current "bad guy's" face off and not simply be cartoonishly evil but both have their own thoughts and reasons behind their actions. Lots of conflicting ideologies and feelings surrounding the wars and governing of different society's that each side has had a role in to various degrees.
I think it’s could just be the fact that chips would affect the clones for only a certain period so maybe after the order is given it’s affects would eventually wear off as clones who were never actually given the order acted like themselves eg Captain Howitzer it would explain why we’re seeing some clones act like they did before the order and why we’re only seeing other return to this state now
This episode showed that most Clones have internal conflicts with themselves and that they understand the Republic is slowly coming to a end,realizing they were simply used as pawns and getting slowly phased out in favor of recruits.
It might be that the chips were designed specifically just against the Jedi. Which is why we see wolf still have some issues in rebels when he first meets kanen
I was surprised that nova made it as far as he did he really went down like a bad ass usually regular clones like that just die without doing much
I would love to see a small spin off where Cody hears a rumour that obi wan is alive and he goes looking for him
Who else was happy to see droids?
I know I was.
It’s def good to know the clones finally were able to question the order and take a decision on starting with the army or defecting. Even if the counter who defected were guilt ridden, atleast they weren’t forced to carry on enforcing orders they weren’t onboard with.
We actually did also see this in the first season with Howzer. He disobeyed orders as well.
Great to see Cody again but damn what an episode.
In Kanan - The last Padawan - Commander Grey also portrays his afterthoughts about Order 66. He does execute it and kill master Billaba, but he is full of regret and lets Kanan escape from his troops and Captain Styles.
Although given how Bad Batch season 1 shows the same story, I dont know if thats canon.
I have a feeling crosshair saved Cody by not allowing him to refuse the order and doing it before he got the chance to say he wont do it