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“With Open Eyes” Part 1 with Jeremy Strong & Alexander Skarsgård | Succession Podcast S4 E10 | HBO
Counter-Strike 2: Moving Beyond Tick Rate
- Published on Mar 21, 2023 veröffentlicht
- Tick rate no longer matters for moving, shooting, or throwing.
Sub-tick updates are the heart of Counter-Strike 2. Previously, the server only evaluated the world in discrete time intervals (called ticks). Thanks to Counter-Strike 2’s sub-tick update architecture, servers know the exact instant that motion starts, a shot is fired, or a ‘nade is thrown.
As a result, regardless of tick rate, your moving and shooting will be equally responsive and your grenades will always land the same way.
Comments • 9 397
Community: We need 128 tick rate
Valve: How about NO tick rate
Community: It feels too smooth, bring back tickrate
@Mr Catman the tick rate master race
how is this even possible? What is this dark magic sdadasdasd
@Mr Catman fr. This is bound to happen. Some people are never happy with anything💀
Valve developers not using Dark mode while coding is a completely other level of crazy
It's probably not valve developers but just some stock footage
One gets tired of dark mode too. Especially in high light areas trying to focus on a dark mode is very painful.
Lmao if you don't use the 2003 Office colour scheme when coding, get outta here
@Sam unlikely, you can read cs go source 2 on one of the programs in the task bar at 0:40, and also there is csgo branded stuff on the table
I don't play Counter Strike, but it's really positive and encouraging to see Valve producing things of high quality, and knowing that a lot of people are going to enjoy it.
I’d hope so lol they haven’t done much but rake in cash the last few years
did they actually make this one? or just outsource it again?
@PHF The Ebon Idiot It's not outsource, it's Source 2
Team Fortress 2
Is this pc only?
Valve always making amazing pieces of art
I feel so lucky that I just started playing a year ago and then the community immediately gets this big an update
You are indeed lucky, some people have been waiting for source 2 since 2018 or earlier
@prav or 2015
(this is a bot by the way)
I would love to see a graphical showcase of what this new engine is capable of.
Half Life Alyx
I agree with "Awesome!" Half life alyx is valve technical showcase of their source 2 engine
@Owen Stockwell omg what just happened when I liked his comment he didin't have that picture 😮😮😮😮😮
Valve is like that father who goes to buy milk and comes back 15 years later with the milk factory and offers you to live in his mansion
the good ending
@Memor22 yes not always the good ending 😅
Not with tf2
@OneSaltyBruh nobody cares about tf2
@_ redline you'd be wrong
Sub-tick updates are actually a pretty huge game changer. Could you imagine seeing this in more FPS games? It would literally make online fps games feel drastically more smoother to play than they have ever been in the past.
Sub-tick updates would be to the FPS genre what Rollback netcode was for the Fighting Game genre!
You're exaggerating so much. Sub tick updates are great for responsiveness but ticks actually impacting your gameplay was rare. It doesn't change the net code much at all and laggy people will still be laggy. High tick servers were already beyond the point of ticks mattering in real gameplay. It was only low tick servers that had poor gameplay.
@Sammysapphire There are plenty of games that use clientside hit detection and jank to try and even reach a tick rate worth a crap, many if not ALL games will be improved from the rare 'got me through a corner' to like i said games that have to eat a lot of tick rate so they can have bigger maps or something like planetside 2.
It can be as big as rollback in a few good cases.
@Over- Clock Oh God, Planetside 2 would definitely benefit from it immensely. I love the game to death but the tick rate can take a nosedive when there's too much going on at once sometimes. Lol
Havent FPS games had actual rollback for well over a decade? Its the reason people with crazy ping jitter around when the movement prediction wasn't accurate to what they actually input instead of just standing still until their packets come through right?
All this update does is (from my read of it anyway) is timestamp each action that happens in a tick and then ON-tick it re-runs that sequence of events chronologically instead of evaluating them all at once. I cant imagine this having any noticeable change in feel at all (unless its horribly bad for whatever reason).
FPS games dont have the same glaring synchronization issues that fighting games have, this is really just for the most minute discrepancies in competitive environments, its not like this is suddenly making them actually playable like rollback is for a lot of fighting games.
All these FPS games and yet Counter-Strike still stood the test of time. Valve never misses.
Now we need Team Fortress 2 2
@Gewel ✔ EXACTLY!
did valve make cs?
A game that simply refuses to die.
i still fire up 1.6 sometimes lol
Well apparently we have been in Counter-strike 1 this whole time, and will no longer be updating iterations of Counter-strike 1
Csgo not refuses die, die refuses csgo
@de Same, also many people in Eastern Europe still play CS 1.6 daily
Valve proved again why they are never forgettable for the gaming world. They make us wait for years but at the end it's totally worth it
Hmm, weird to see a verified person with so little likes. Usually they'd abuse their checkmark to steal comments, get more exposure and scam people.
@Nuts from Berserk that’s only if they bring up tf2
This is going to be revolutionary, if it works as advertised. This is the kind of next-gen level tech advancements that I want to see beyond just updating graphics.
I love how everybody was just dreaming about 128 tick servers but they came up with a totally new way to solve the problem. Props to devs on this one!
We will see in the game, but the hopes are high
So no 128 tick rate? We still gonna have 64 with the new update + their new implementation?
@GamingPot did you even watch the video?
I think tf2 could use this too! Sometimes your shots (specially with sniper and heavy ) hit around corners ( infamous heavy’s corner bullets) or snipers shooting at air and somehow hitting a headshot.
you can fix that by creating a word.exe and put some scripts in it
Like thats ever gonna happen
The reason a sniper can shoot the air from an observer's point of view is because from the snipers point of view on his home computer he actually landed the headshot, so the server favors the shooter. I don't quite understand how sub tick rate is going to address this, because you can't make all players have equal latency. If you're playing 1v1 from the USA versus a guy in China there's going to be some delay, from his point of view he successfully juked your crosshairs and made it around the corner, but from your point of view you landed the shot. So how does the server decide if he dies or not?
@EvanEvan i read that with shrek's voice from some reason-
That's more of a lag compensation effect. If you're playing against someone who has much higher ping, you can safely be around a corner on your screen, and still die because when your opponent's shot was registered by the server, you were still away from the corner on their screen.
And if that sounds unfair, consider that if your opponent had low ping, they probably still would have shot you in the exact same way from their client's perspective, just a little bit sooner from your perspective, so it doesn't really change the outcome. Without that compensation, i.e. if the server always used your current position for shots without any 'rewind' to compensate other clients, high-ping players would have to lead their shots to counter the latency, which is just impossible.
tl;dr It's a mechanic that has to exist to make the game fair regardless of your ping. The game would be enormously biased towards low-ping players without it.
Love the careful focus on mechanics and slight visual upgrades, but otherwise sticking with the winning formula
Estaría genial que les pusieran accesorios a las armas pero que no afectasen a la jugabilidad ni al manejo de las mismas y que fuesen solo un componente estético como una skin por ejemplo. Imagínate una mp5 con empuñadura mira laser, mira modificada, cañón modificado, culata, etc... pero que fuese exactamente igual que una mp5 normal solo que mucho más bonita de ver. Eso también añadiría otro nivel a la economía del juego en la compra y venta de skins.
Valve rarely does something, but when they do, it's bound to be special.
like the Half-Life 3 right ? :D
Are you sure Valve done this? HPE made CSGO
Artifact comes to mind
Ребята они сделали конфетку.
Shots 1-5: Clearly missed.
Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).
Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses.
Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because Hiko was already dead.
A very interesting detail that I wanted to have is the triggering of weapons, like: If you pull a weapon for the first time, the character triggers it, but next time you don't need to because the character has already performed this action. It would be much more realistic and interesting.
I never played Counter Strike but I know I've seen it ever since I was little and I know how beloved the game is to this day, knowing Valve just shadowdropped a sequel and I got to live to see that is an honor in itself and seeing the mechanics they're bringing to the table? I'm definitely gonna be dropping some money on this one.
Not sequel. Just a massive port/update.
Luckily its free lol 😂
Valve has been on the forefront of always carefully crafting the experience for the players. Love to see this old classic being revamped. Hope there will be a left 4 dead 3 in the works sooooon!
this is the most I've ever seen a game get so much support from its community actually crazy
bf2042 also got this much hype too.. just saying
@Ramble Roodle But Dice has a bad track record.
@Ramble Roodle compares Valve that always appeared to evolve with Electronic Arts?
@HIDARI Lol, Valve is one of the most Respected and community focused companies
I cannot wait to see how this works on laggy servers. But besides that concern, this is honestly a masterpiece. It completely blows my mind. Valve always hit it big when they take a swing. I wish they would swing more often.
I dont know how this works but i'm a web developer and there is a simililar problem and a solution called web socket. Instead of constantly requesting updates (ticks) there is an always open connection and updates get send if they happen. This makes responsiveness much faster and is even less demanding on the connection. If valve is doing something similar then the game experience could be better on server with bad connections.
@Killerbear02lmao, web-developer. You working with top-level abstraction of network in js. All online games work on the socket model because for online games important know what changed from last moment.
I don't know online games which work with network by open-close connection model, this is worst thing what you can do with online game.
Model that based on tickrates it's the same socket model, but it does request to data from client every "1 / . So when you shooting, server based on tickrates saving your data before tickrate and then when tickrate occurs, it sends data to server.
They haven't revealed what means sub-tickrate, but based on their words the conception is same as the game works without tickrate.
@Killerbear02eb socket is entirely different from sockets being used in games. Yes it does use your typical TCP/UDP fashion but formatted differently, often proprietary.
This video kinda misleading because there's no such thing called "sub-tick" in a discrete calculator famously called computer. It still uses 64 ticks. My best guess is that it uses timestamps between ticks, send it to the server, and then the server guesses and validates what happened during the single tick.
@Maxim9575this. Depends on the game engine, Valve's solution is to use tickeate.
That's awesome. I hope something like this happens for TF2
I’m still waiting
As a fellow TF2 fan... Might wanna keep your hopes down.
@Iminumst no keep your hopes high but expectations low
Will have to wait for TF3…good luck
Tf2 is too much of a timeless masterpiece, so we won’t need tf3 until technology is absolutely nothing like right now.
would be really cool to get a technical perspective on this and have a dev explain how the code for this works, so intriguing
Whoa....not something I would ever expect a company to put out for a promo, but damn. With CS that is crazy important and I'm pumped. Keep it up Valve
Not just a game changer, its change for the whole fps industry! Insane
? it has a bit better graphics, 128 tick which is the standard for an fps and they changed the smokes. What is "game changing" in here?
@Elvis Depresley did you even watch the vid ? This is not 128 tick
@No Meds TV what’s game changing here is they ditched the 128 tick and gone for real time feedback. No delays (so they say) so whatever actions you do is instant.
This literally changes nothing. A new game release to replace the old version. Calm down.
@No Meds TV Valorant player detected
PLEASE bring back warmup and halftime global voice chat! That was the best feature in the game and you will have the best game ever for sure :D
what about the halloween masks 🥲
i don't need 9 russian to yell, 4 is already enough...
@Claes Lanng why not? the more the merrier isn't it? :v
it's always when Valve actually working something and it's always gonna be good
Honestly this is a huge thing not just for CS but for gaming in general.
this means so much to me. I grew up playing cs and css and importing my own skins into css and playing with like pokeball gernades and badass custom gun skins and knives and surf rpg servers and gungame servers on 1.6 where you just hold mouse 1 and can basically spray your way to a win and just and just having so much fun. My cousin bought me the orange box and gave me a bunch of games he had codes for for free. My steam account is 15 years old and fast forward to me putting in 5k hours into csgo and having so many memories and learning how to be a leader by being an igl for teams it taught me so much and it taught me to think ahead improved my reflexes and hand eye coordination and work ethic and the value of practicing and watching recordings and correcting bad habits and it taught me just alot of stuff in general and im so happy and grateful this day has come. Thank you so much for everything. Cs is the best
I think it needs more changes on weapons. Anything about weapons can really change the gameplay. Like shooting sounds, inspecting, getting weapon (animations) etc.
Valve doing Valve things, making us wait for years but then delivering what we all wanted and waited for
to be honest its nothing exciting.. many years of waiting and game will be the same lmao. only some shadows and better smokes. sad as fuck
@Podróżnik Well and Source 2, so expected better maps, models and modes/mods from it. Given that they did mention they are still doing Hammer 2 stuff for us to try in the previous video.
@Podróżnik ssssshhhhh let the fanboys have some fun while they still can..whales being whales, it's not going to change for better in any future..
@Podróżnik What did you except? Rainbow six counterstrike 2? Of course it is mostly the same
Now a feedback about the agents skin: the agents should be divided in their sub categories in maps: if you want to use agent Ava you should be able only where FBI agents operate,if you want D squadron SAS he should be available only where SAS operates,and same with terorits,it will be much better
Valve is like a Ninja, they are sneaky and quiet but when they strike, they strike hard
It's great that they've got the tick rate sorted. I hope one day they focus on fixing the severe audio latency though, as it's become more and more pronounced with each engine version/iteration they've produced since about 2006. I would've imagined audio would be the second most crucial element to reflexive response in gaming directly after visual.
I'm guessing it's to do with dedicating less resources to processing audio and focusing on visual in order to provide the fastest visual response time. It was still surprising to see the latency present in this video though.
I noticed you made this comment two weeks ago, so you might know by now but audio has been rebalanced as well.
@A plant Ah right - what exactly have they done as far as rebalancing? I don't play but I'm always keen to hear when someone has taken sound latency seriously.
Прям гора с плеч, я так этого ждал, мне всё понравилось, хочу уже поскорее поиграть в неё
Возьмешь у меня?
Os objetos do cenário como caixas madeiras etc... poderiam ser destruídos com as granadas, o cenário poderiam ser todo quebrado com os tiros granadas enfim, isso iria deixar o jogo mais satisfatório.
i like how this just establishes that Valve is only known for radio silence, then drops the biggest banger out of nowhere
like how they leave team fortress 2 with 0 updates for nearly 5 years then announce an actual update-sized update that's coming around this summer
@megamoondude01 holiday-sized update*
@megamoondude01 but that blog did just come out of nowhere, and now workshop creators are pumping out content like machines
@megamoondude01 sadly the update won't be nothing special
Just like Rockstar Games
The tick rate is already insane but those smoke physics just blew my mind. Damn you Valve, you frustrate me and amaze me at the same time with all your wacky decision making.
I'm ready to go back playing again, because you seem to have actually made a game great again!
I hope that some of these "insane mechanics" like this will come into TF2 someday. As if we ever going to have another major update...
My understanding of this, is that servers still operate game logic on a tick rate, but on the client side when you input it won't wait for your next client tick to send your input to the server, but instead will send your input instantly with a sub-tick timestamp to tell the server. They can use that information to do some really precise calculation, like if you and your target trade shots at the same tick, it can look at the tick time stamp to see who fired first. And it could potentially even do the same thing with movement through interpolation. This isn't like going to resolve laggy connections or anything. But I'm still proud that Valve is trying their best to deliver peak gaming experience.
Good explanation, I was confused at first but understand it now
yes yes, everyone watched the video you know
"As nuvens vêm flutuando em minha vida, não mais para carregar chuva ou trazer tempestade, mas para adicionar cor ao meu céu do entardecer." Rabindranath Tagore
I’m not even a counter strike fan but I’m excited about anything valve talks about
THE ONLY REAL FPS SHOOTER! ALL OTHERS ARE COPIES
@dile but tf2 🥺
@SirCat07 valve cant compete with itself)
no one tell dile there were shooters before counter strike
The update is great. Played the beta, and it's fun!
It does suck that it's basically the same game with some updates, however, it's still nice to see that things are changing. I think new guns and maps are needed though.
Honestly this looks amazing, source 2 should definitely fill in the cracks of counter strike.
Valve is amazing as usual! Nice video!
I'm curious as to why this was never implemented before if it seems so simple. Need someone to explain how exactly this works and what the drawbacks are.
Finally, I can now stop shooting the enemy's head to avoid saying " *HOW WAS THAT NOT A HEADSHOT?!* ", thank you Valve
Downloading the Counter Strike beta back in the day is one of my most fond memories. Ille be 32 tomorrow
It completely blows my mind.I never played Counter Strike but i want to play it.because this one looks great.
very nice! more satisfying reload animations would make the gunplay even better.
The servers knows where you are at all times. It knows this because it knows where you aren't, by subtracting where you are, from where you're not, or where you aren't, from where you were, whichever is greater, it obtains a difference, or deviation. The tick rate sub-system uses deviations to generate corrective commands to get you from a position where you are, to a position where you aren't, and arriving at a position where you weren't, to where you are now.
Damn I didn't know Valve programs their games by Aperture Science logic
@Null One Valve IS Apature Science.
I own a steam deck and who knows how much neurotoxin is in there
Hello, Valve ! Thank you ! What are you make this game a lot, but of course we will try and appreciate your efforts. Good luck to you !
I hope there'll be a promo item in TF2 for getting the game early. (love me them weapon reskins and hats)
Maybe even an update
Feels like a safety brief before playing laser tag
Valve is the Daniel Day Lewis of video game development. Looks great, source 2 is impressive
It's a good thing I haven't played the previous installments, because this one looks great.
0:48 PLAYER SHADOW ON THE GROUND!!!! This is huge. No more shadow disadvantages as long as you're paying attention. You can check if your shadow shows or not by just looking down in the moment, you don't need to load up a map and place a bot just to check individual positions any more.
finally, i will know if that CT can see me when i'm on mini :)
Bro its 2023 there are shadows in games chill tf out g
Damn. Props to you for noticing that!
Shadow is quite fucked up tho. The barrel`s shadow on the ground and scope`s shadow on the hand didn`t match the angle, and even further - look at barrel`s shadow, when reloading it just bounces in random directions
Exactly, came looking for this comment lmao
The server knows where you are at all times. It knows this because it knows where you aren't. By subtracting where you are from where you aren't, or where you aren't from where you are (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The netcode subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive your player character from a position where you weren't to a position where you are, and arriving at a position where you weren't, you now are. Consequently, the position where you are, is now the position where you weren't, and it follows that the position where you were, is now the position where you are.
With the newer game engines available Valve still sets the bar with their Source engine, and in the past three days they set it even higher than before
Anyone else notice the explosion made the smoke cloud disappear @ 1:00 and shooting through it cleared smoke too @ 0:59?
this is the best thing in CS2 alongside the smoke and graphics updates and map updates
Very excited for this game. Looks awesome!
update olarak çıkar umarım yeni oyun diye çıkarmazlar
unlost the unbeaten
Artık csgo geçersin abi ?
I just got cs 1 anthology like 2 days ago on dvd😂 i am exited for summer 2023 for this and the tf2 update! Keep on the good work!
This means servers can run lower tick rate because simulation is more costly. This also means cheats can manipulate time within the space of a tick, adding negative acceleration to make running shot more accurate or extra ~half tick response time.
now valve goes like: "take care, see you guys in 10 years"
And here I am still playing 1.6 and loving it
Only those 2 make my heart go pound: Valve and Rockstar.
Faster response times between the shots was always a priority. Now with this feature, hopefully people will stop complaining about their shots not landing on their targets.
and now they can understand they have skill issue
tick rate is one thing, ping is the other tho
keep hacks blames back to surface LOL
@Yashma_ so true
Community: "We want 128 tick"
Valve after years of no resposnse: "How about we do you one better?"
20+ years and can't tell you how good it feels to see Tick Rate thing of the past!
Ah yes a sequel to a game that was perfect we really needed this
Perfect for cheating kids and their cheating sponsored "pros" 😆
I like how nobody seems to notice the card ace counter for eliminations in the center bottom
i noticed :)
Isn't that a current feature?
@Dogman15 only in val, i don't see any of it in csgo
@Putu Tunik in CSGO it's the skulls near ammo count.
Looks like I'm heading back to CS again after so many years...thanks Valve!
Agent 47 explaining different cs2 features is soooo calming. So hyped for this
Is that really David Bateson?
@Guardian Valor I think so, not sure, he does really sound like him
After reading this, you made him sound like David Bateson
I guess 47 already infiltrated Valve
Lol thats not same voice actor. Not even close.
Good job, personally for me, im only coming back to csgo if valve will finally add intrusive anti cheat.
THIS IS SO GOOD! THANK YOU VALVE
Also, as a former dedicated server owner, I would like to know how many resources (CPU power) will a sub-tick server eats, I bet it will be huge with all this information processing and maximum player slot will be less than the same server as 64 or 128 tick.
As someone who has never played counter strike I wonder what it’s gonna be like to dive into this 😂
It's gonna be a bit difficult since so many people have years of map knowledge and muscle memory built up but just take a gun and shoot shit, it's fun just to jump around and shoot in the game
Valve took CS to a WHOLE new level...well done
Verified, but no likes or replies...
Shots 1-5 will miss even more clearly now ❤
Nice reference XD
banger comment lmfao
Shots 6-13 will still miss regardless of engine
And the bad recoil control through shot 6-9 can now be seen by everyone
As a person who has only played Valorant... thinking of trying CS 2 out! Looks fun😊
This tick rate would be game changing for players’ experiences in BR games.
BR gaming is dead
you really can never go wrong with valve
ALWAYS GO WRONG WITH THEM
NO ALYX DISKS
I would love to know how this works under the hood while still maintaining a server authoritative model for a multiplayer game that is played at an esports level
I thought OG game devs would be dead but theres still hope! You are setting an example for ALL! Just look at the reaction and views within 24 hours!
The fact that frag grenade and shooting through smoke clears it offers so much strats
spraying smokes gonna be so disgusting now i pray for nuke outside lurkers
never mind, they do exactly as I suggested lmao
@FX the smoke does fill back up after shooting you can see it in their smoke video on overpass
@Big Nuts does smoke physics work the same in real life ?
I see Calve is finally changing things up...a lot
Boys, this is not only good solid news for counter strike, but with source 2 and valve pretty much putting this into test phase after half life alex, there is now a slim chance we may see the mystical half life 3 because they had always moved forward once they make huge strides in tech.
I really wanted to understand how this new tech work. Looks really cool
I can't wait to try this. Thank you Gaben.
It would be nice to get a hardcore mode where weapon switching and all that didn’t help in anyway
I even love the UI they're using to showcase these changes. I wish they implement this in the game.
I think it's a given. The UI clearly seems remade specifically to be implemented, they wouln't have bothered to showcase it as gameplay otherwise.
ui look like cross fire, isn't it?
I only dont like the ui ingame, Centered HP and Ammo counters and those cards, seems distracting.
@Kacpa2 It looks distracting at first because its new and you're not used to it. When it sinks into your second nature, you wouldn't want it any other way.
@Kacpa2 csgo has so many commands you will most likely be able to mess around with them
Holly shit I was expecting 128 tick upgrade but instead they just made it UNLIMITED TICK. Honestly im surprised. Good job valve
I imagine this might introduce late death because the server can't calculate quickly enough