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Walmart's $8 CPU Frame vs. $800 i9-12900KS | Cheukchi Frame Review

  • Published on Nov 27, 2022 veröffentlicht
  • GamingGaming

Comments • 1 029

  • Gamers Nexus
    Gamers Nexus  3 months ago +90

    Watch the video that started it all - our Thermal Grizzly Contact Frame review: clip-share.net/video/Ysb25vsNBQI/video.html
    We're running low on our 3D Drink Coaster Packs! These custom-designed, PC-themed coasters support our in-depth testing work and get you a high-quality, unique product in return! We have no current plans to re-order the current coaster designs, but these will be part of a collectible series. If you've wanted some, get them before they're gone! store.gamersnexus.net/products/3d-coaster-pack-4-component-coasters
    Watch our Thermalright $4 contact frame review: clip-share.net/video/iYU1OskbY-Q/video.html

    • burrfoottopknot
      burrfoottopknot 3 months ago

      Dissapointed with Intel considering they would have seen this if they had conducted tests, or they did see this and figured the consumer market can fix this?

    • Eugene Elkin
      Eugene Elkin 3 months ago


    • Tre Ju
      Tre Ju 3 months ago

      kinda surprised that no one pointed at incorrect pressure picture graphics in the video - the graphics highlighted walmart pictures when he said cheukchi name and there was no cheukchi images at all

    • Byron Franek
      Byron Franek 3 months ago

      @MedicSound are you serious?

    • MedicSound
      MedicSound 3 months ago

      @Byron Franek no, they emphasize not being able to drop the replacement frame, not the ILM, onto the socket. At least their "cooler tech" does.

  • der8auer
    der8auer 3 months ago +373

    Completely lost it when I saw the picture in the frame :D Also big credits to Steve for reviewing all these with the same standard even though we are friends. The professional approach GN has is a highlight in our industry. Hope we will see these pressure maps again after the CPU is lapped.

    • Cobra Kai
      Cobra Kai Month ago

      Do you know if a Intel 12900k warps to a point of no return when using the Intel LGA 1700 retention bracket or I could I salvage mine with your LGA 1700 retention product? I am hitting temps of 45-65C at idle and while gaming or benchmarking I am hitting 100C thus throttling. I don't want to risk voiding my warranty with Intel if I am at the point of no return and could not benefit from your product or a competitor. I have applied Thermal Grizzly cpu paste twice and I have a Lian Li AIO 360 Galahad cooler and I can't get back to normal temps where I was prior to repasting due to me moving my pc parts to a new case. Is it possilbe to warp an Intel 12900k cpu that badly with Intel's LGA 1700 socket retention bracket??

    • Troll Meister
      Troll Meister 2 months ago +2

      @ChrizzyReviews No comment.

    • Misted Mind
      Misted Mind 2 months ago +3

      @ChrizzyReviews Have we watched the same video? As in this current video only with the 12900KS the pressure map is better with the Thermalright frame.
      On both other CPUs the Grizzly frame offer noticeably better pressure distribution.
      About the costs: Walmart and Thermalright produce their products likely in China. The material itself(!) is about 5$ in US, as explained in a previous GN video.
      Grizzly produce their frame in Germany, where the workers wages are like at least 10 times or so higher than in China.
      Hence the substantially higher product cost.
      Depends on you which kind of trade / production policy you want to support.

    • ChrizzyReviews
      ChrizzyReviews 2 months ago +4

      Just curious - how come that Thermalright gives quite alot better contact than yours? Mounting tips to make your frame to make as even pressure as possible? I mean, its about 25eur price diff between yours & thermalright one..

    • Duckboy The4th
      Duckboy The4th 3 months ago +7

      Yeah that's really funny!, I also love GN's methodological approach to testing, very professional.

  • Thrillium
    Thrillium 3 months ago +1214

    I really want the cpu frame to stay on that shelf as a reference to the wall decor thing

    • Honey BBQ Sauce
      Honey BBQ Sauce 2 months ago +1

      @Gamers Nexus If you don't put roman on your wall, I'll never forgive you.

    • G Money
      G Money 2 months ago

      No it needs to drilled into the wall

    • Hal
      Hal 2 months ago +1

      @Gamers Nexus Make sure it has the picture of Der Bauer. 😉

    • Johannes Davidsen
      Johannes Davidsen 3 months ago +1

      @NASA official Oh it was him i recognise him but couldnt remember his name 😄

    • E Cruz
      E Cruz 3 months ago

      agree, more mocking their faults and stupidity please, is there a channel for that i'd sub immediately. "their" as in anyone anywhere.

  • A Henderson-Roche
    A Henderson-Roche 3 months ago +849

    Oh the _frame_ at the front with a photo of DerBauer. No wonder you found these small size frames in the home deco section! You're putting them to great use! Maybe a "our team" section when you walk in to your new office with passport photos of everyone hung up in these?

    • Sándor Nyemcsok
      Sándor Nyemcsok 2 months ago

      @psycronizer Yeah, do not worry, it was not mean to be an offense and I have not interpreted it that way either 🙂

    • supra107
      supra107 3 months ago

      @Corporeal Undead Mit acht!

    • GsaUce Rug
      GsaUce Rug 3 months ago

      I didn't see anything at all

    • Ryan Morrison
      Ryan Morrison 3 months ago +2

      @Corporeal Undead Yes, the 8 is a number replacement for B, the name is still DerBauer

    • psycronizer
      psycronizer 3 months ago

      and that there was nothing else there that catches your eye lol, oh you liar Steve, we all know you are in love with Der8auer lol...

  • 401 - Unauthorized
    401 - Unauthorized 3 months ago +227

    Hardware is now days not included by count but by weight. Plastic washers are very difficult to weigh right when packaging, so usually the rule is to pack a weight of at least n+1 units. Customers might receive 5, 6 or even 7, because the aim if for 5 or more since 4 are needed, but due to measurement errors it could happen that only be 4 get packed on some occasions. Having a target weight of 5 thus ensures that 4 will definitely be in each package, because it is highly unlikely that the weight of 3 washers will pass the more than n+1 rule.

    • cat stevens
      cat stevens 2 months ago +4

      @Dennzer1 they didn't get 3, Steve said they all had at least 4 and speculated you COULD get 3, but you won't, due to the weight reason given

    • Dennzer1
      Dennzer1 2 months ago

      So..... they got 3 in that one pack and that would be considered extremely rare, based on what you said here?

    • cat stevens
      cat stevens 2 months ago


    • aflury
      aflury 3 months ago +1

      Yeah, that's why they'll usually include a spare if you order in metric instead of imperial.

    • TheStig ZeroZeroZero
      TheStig ZeroZeroZero 3 months ago +20

      Also, I'd rather have spares just in case.

  • Kelekona H.
    Kelekona H. 3 months ago +338

    LOL Der Bauer being framed in his own frame was a nice touch.

    • FlimerMithrandir
      FlimerMithrandir 3 months ago +1

      @SyntexToxy Ronin For Example at 2:10 at the left Corner you will see Der8auer as Passphoto in his own made Frame. I think his was the first one as well. But its kinda expensive if i am not mistaken since its made in Germany and its just not comparable with other Country’s like China (which all other Frames are made at as far as i know).

    • SyntexToxy Ronin
      SyntexToxy Ronin 3 months ago

      I'm being dumb right now, what's the joke about?

    • Corporeal Undead
      Corporeal Undead 3 months ago

      der8auer, get it right!

    • mattmanyam
      mattmanyam 3 months ago +5


      RANDOMNATION 3 months ago +13

      @mattmanyam tell it to the judge

  • kmoecub
    kmoecub 3 months ago +359

    I just find it hilarious that such a product is even necessary. Oh Intel...
    As to the extra washers; that's actually a good thing. Once upon a time is was normal to get extra hardware with a product, just in case you dropped something and lost it. Nothing is more frustrating than having to go the the hardware store (or worse, have to wait weeks for special hardware to be shipped) in the middle of putting something together.

    • TheExplosionist
      TheExplosionist 2 months ago

      I replaced the frame on mine. Not only was the stock Intel socket better quality with hidden black pads underneath but the paste pattern on the waterblock appeared 100%. I think I've made it worse.

    • Daniel Claridge
      Daniel Claridge 3 months ago

      @Ditto yo dude i guess your missing the point. For the last twenty years of the same shit every two years. If these things are nessesary intel is doing something horribly wrong. Saying that i can always count on intel on bruteforce wattage for performance. If its killing things on the board for this to be required as you say intels doing it horribly wrong. I run a 10850k oc btw so im on no fanboi service here. They are what we call a luxury item for a build end off. Even pseudo performance as i bet modding and other good practices nullify anything these things do!

    • Ryan Morrison
      Ryan Morrison 3 months ago +2

      @Jomon Ramiel you dont understand what any of this content is actually about do you?
      With a cooler on a stock board you can't get correct mounting pressure because of the shitty lever bracket flexing the CPU IHS.
      These frames were made to hold the CPU flat in the socket, allowing your CPU Cooler to get ample mounting pressure across the while CPU, rather than the areas that have been bent up from the lever bracket, allowing for up to 15 degree drops in some situations.

    • Glornak
      Glornak 3 months ago

      If you wanna blame anyone for the mediocre loading mechanisms blame motherboard manufacturers. There's no way they'd ever sell a board that doesn't have a brain dead simple lever based frame cause they don't wanna deal with the overwhelming majority of their customers that don't understand what torque is or dont want the hassle. Hell Intel already has a dual lever frame design that's significantly better than the single lever and mobo manufacturers choose not to use it.

    • Ditto
      Ditto 3 months ago

      @Elon61 What do you think is right beneath the dead zone on the heat spreader? the most important chips and constantly having a higher temp on these chips will shorten life span 100p.

  • AaronShenghao
    AaronShenghao 3 months ago +323

    Probably some shop in China saw those frames and thought “humm, we have a CNC machine too, maybe we can make the…”
    Listing it under “wall decor” works too, especially if you mount a 12/13th gen onto the wall with these.

    • InvadeNormandy
      InvadeNormandy 2 months ago +1

      Since the other copy pasta is played out and outdated.
      Maybe mainland china's responsibility is fixing mainland china's image at this point? Because...
      Sewer Oil
      Plastic Rice
      Fake Lettuce and Cabbage
      Counterfeit Eggs
      Poison Petfood
      Poison Candy
      Poison pills
      Rampant and rapid knockoffs flooding legitimate online retailers stock to a point where it may require a total economic freeze or tear down to root it all out. (INCLUDING CRITICAL medical gears and pharma supplies)
      Taiwan Suppression and Oppression
      Building standards so poor there are bridges made to near comedy movie mafioso levels (Corn cob cored bridges, dirt bricks. Look it up)
      The pillager of the modern world, there is nothing they won't rip off, and their fixed legal system and the rest of the crooked first world looking the other way means that any disputes end up in Chinese courts, and you will automatically lose. (Small business startups have lost credibility and livelihoods due to knockoffs flooding the market, or clones of their products falsely listed on amazon and tanking their reputation due to poor quality.)
      Ughyr genocide and death camp trains
      Global meddling and price fixing
      Economic Crisis
      Ghost cities
      Currency manipulation
      Crowds shouting slurs at celebrities and at visiting basketball stars as recently as 2022
      The current TOP POLLUTER ON EARTH (including ozone depleting gasses ALL OTHER NATIONS HAVE BANNED AND CEASED USE OF SINCE THE 90s!)
      Human rights disasters
      People walk around mangled toddlers in the street after an accident because of draconian "Good Samaritan" punishing laws and a degenerated culture
      Exchange student credibility crisis, a huge influx of them when checked critically? Their work is all plagiarized or cheated. (Look it up.)
      In 2022 currently they are actively colonizing Africa. It is not a partnership, it is a takeover. And everyone is weirdly silent on the topic despite that being the worst thing one can do.

    • Jorge Ramos
      Jorge Ramos 3 months ago

      @Dr_b_ Was intended to be sarcasm, yes.

    • Dr_b_
      Dr_b_ 3 months ago

      When someone accuses you of racism they have no real argument, and seek to discredit and divert attention away from reality. Oh look he is racist! Don't look at the pollution and slave labor camps! Now if you will excuse me, i have to go buy some white sheets for a rally tonight

    • Dr_b_
      Dr_b_ 3 months ago

      @Jorge Ramos not sure if you are being sarcastic or critical

    • Chevy Chavanne
      Chevy Chavanne 3 months ago +1

      @Dr_b_ my apologies, i misread your post. Thank you for your clarification and non-snarky reply. I am dissapointed that this thread has somehow devolved into racism when it clearly is an issue of bad business practice. Something that all races are/can be guilty of

  • Dil
    Dil 3 months ago +24

    Your pressure maps are amazing. When I was swapping out my stock ILM with the TR contact frame, The thermal paste left an identical pattern to your pressure map, with a considerably thicker layer left behind on the side facing the memory. Crazy to see such a small outlet doing the best testing in the business currently.

  • Felipe Pérez
    Felipe Pérez 3 months ago +109

    I had no idea this existed but 6 degrees for 10 bucks seems like a great deal

    • Nick P
      Nick P 6 days ago

      @Glornak if these had a double lever there would have been no issue. People are still going to pay for a MB no matter if it was $1 or $10 more for an extra lever. I don't get how MBAs think always cost cutting is the best move. I guess universities need to cut this methodology out of their curriculum.

    • The Echelon
      The Echelon 3 months ago

      @Glitter Fart No one was shitting on anything. Technical and practical tests were done and the results were objectively communicated.

    • Cris n Mary Fam
      Cris n Mary Fam 3 months ago

      7:20 isnt shitting on it, it clearly shows scientific evidence that its doing tis job. Along side their testing that shows 6 degrees, this is a pretty strong endorsement IF you ignore the possibility of a manufacture error that is more likely to happen on the cheaper product.

    • rpmm24
      rpmm24 3 months ago


    • Vincent Groenewold
      Vincent Groenewold 3 months ago

      @ShroudedWolf51 This is what the new kids now believe an actual review is... :)

  • reptarien
    reptarien 3 months ago +62

    Heavily impressed that chinese walmart brand beats international INTEL in performance and cooling. Just... wow. If I had an Intel CPU, I'd definitely be investing in one of these.

    • reptarien
      reptarien 3 months ago +3

      @Anthony R Been a problem since probably 10th gen, because of how hot Intel chips have been getting due to much higher power draw than before.

    • Anthony R
      Anthony R 3 months ago

      Has this always been a issue with Intel boards or is it just coming up with 12th gen

    • Siegbert schnösel
      Siegbert schnösel 3 months ago +11

      yeah the stock ILM needs a redesign. It's design goes back to the 775 socket introduced with Pentium 4 architecture in 2004.

    • reptarien
      reptarien 3 months ago +6

      @csorrows Well aware!

    • csorrows
      csorrows 3 months ago +3

      It's not a "walmart brand". It's some 3rd party seller on the site.

  • Mark Cahalan
    Mark Cahalan 3 months ago +108

    When you picked it up to go over to the wall, I was immediately disappointed that you hadn't put a small hanger on the wall to hang it.
    WALL decor, not SHELF trinket!

  • h a
    h a 3 months ago +20

    This tells you something about the sad state that Intel is in as a company. This is an obvious problem that causes the processor to over-heat and throttle, specially on a CPU that runs hot by default. Intel hasn't done a thing to resolve it, and looks like the 13th gen CPU may come with the same heat spreader and retainer! It looks like they spent 5 minutes and $5 designing the whole socket assembly on the 1700 series.

    • felix Gaming vlog
      felix Gaming vlog 2 months ago

      @Glornak becouse amd is work fine until you want to replace the thermal paste or change the cpu

    • Glornak
      Glornak 3 months ago

      @h a Nothing is being "kept under wrap" lol. The two lever design was introduced and briefly used on the LGA 2011 socket before manufacturers chose to abandon it and go back to the cheaper single lever. Unless Intel stops approving the single lever manufacturers will always choose the cheaper option. And why would they ban it? There's only a few very expensive Intel CPUs where throttling is gonna happen without overclocking. If it's just the idea that Temps would be better so they should require it then why isn't AMD getting criticised for their crappy single lever design?

    • h a
      h a 3 months ago +1

      @Glornak where is this 'better ILM design', why is it being kept under the wrap. Motherboard manufacturers go by Intel's design to honor the Intel warranty. How come all MOBO makers use the same lame design? did they all contract the same virus? Intel could have gotten in front of it late last year and save a lot of people lots of hassle.

    • Glornak
      Glornak 3 months ago +1

      @Steampunk Skunk Threadripper is hardly a consumer chip and it's far from mass market. It's a low volume enterprise grade CPU meant for servers. Intel Xeon uses screw on frames too but that doesn't change the fact that 99% of AMD and intel's CPUs use lever based ILMs.

    • Steampunk Skunk
      Steampunk Skunk 3 months ago +4

      @Glornak Thread ripper screw down and they work fine. They include a small torque wrench with the CPU. You are making it sound like an impossible task but it has already been solved and exists in the consumer space.

  • Triaxx2
    Triaxx2 3 months ago +161

    I'm just... Thermal Grizzly and Thermal Rite are specialist brands. But like... how embarrassed should Intel be to get beaten by WALMART at it's own job?

    • FlimerMithrandir
      FlimerMithrandir 3 months ago

      @Imperial Knight It also matters if you sell a few 10-100k less because ppl out there see the Temps and the Bending of the CPUs that occurs now and they are like…
      I will not buy a new Intel CPU anymore.
      Thats when you as a Company fucked up and when its not worth to save a few Cents in Material (if even…).

    • csorrows
      csorrows 3 months ago

      @MISTER SIR Actually, that's not correct. Walmart does not even touch or ship these. They are sold and shipped by some random Chinese company. It's just like eBay.

      MISTER SIR 3 months ago

      wallmart is just the distributor selling rebranded chinese copy stuff, and Intel are doing what they're doing because convenience of quick-swapping is more important to them than the thermals.. That said, I wish Intel would also provide a cheap mass manufactured performance frame like this one for users to option into if they want that extra cooling performance. Shouldn't cost them more than 4-8 bucks per cpu sold..

    • csorrows
      csorrows 3 months ago

      @Salty Maud Walmart didn't even ship or sell this. It's just some random seller.

    • Imperial Knight
      Imperial Knight 3 months ago +1

      It's just cost cutting. Note how thick the 3rd party plates are. Saving a dollar a plate matters to the bean counters when you're producing them in the millions

  • PoRRasturvaT
    PoRRasturvaT 3 months ago +59

    So, $800 CPU and $300 mobo and you still have to void your warranty to get it to function normally. Just like the deliding days.
    God dammit Intel.

    • Skylancer727
      Skylancer727 Month ago

      @csorrows this is a video mainly on Intel hardware, of course we're bringing up their memory overclocking system. And technically while unlikely, it can cause stability issues with your system. But specifically the issue is that Intel labels XMP as voiding the warranty on their chips. Of course you could have it on and send it back anyways saying no as they have no proof that broke the chip. They would need the mobo to check for it. But telling them yes means the warranty is void end of story. Just read their site.

    • csorrows
      csorrows Month ago

      @Skylancer727 even if you say yes, there is nothing they can do unless they can prove that it caused the damage. Also, what does XMP have to do with the CPU? That's a ram profile. Only the controller is on the CPU. A profile won't hurt anything on the CPU. Also, XMP is an Intel technology.

    • Cry
      Cry Month ago +2

      this doesn't void anything stop spreading fud

    • csorrows
      csorrows 3 months ago +3

      Unless the frame caused the damage and they can prove it, it won't void anything.

    • Skylancer727
      Skylancer727 3 months ago +10

      @e vila There isn't a way they could know, unless you send your motherboard back for RMA with that still on. If you call Intel for an RMA on the chip they may ask if you have one of these frames and XMP turned on. Just say no or that you don't know what that is and it should be good.

  • Eidolon
    Eidolon 3 months ago +38

    I think testing with a lapped CPU would be interesting. Thermal Grizzly has a tool that's supposed to aid in the lapping process that you could check out as well!

    • D C
      D C 3 months ago

      @Papaja Valeri I can't imagine the little set screws that lightly torque onto the board are correcting a raised edge IHS. Flat (lapped) is best. Shouldn't be removing enough material to effect a heat sink mount, or socket bracket interference.

    • andrew szerbiak
      andrew szerbiak 3 months ago +1

      @130rne sounds like it'd be fun to try haha

    • 130rne
      130rne 3 months ago +1

      @andrew szerbiak Fun fact: If you're really careful you can "mill" a car cylinder head and do the same with glass and a jig. My brother did it and used a multi layer steel head gasket which requires the flattest surface of all the head gaskets.

    • Papaja Valeri
      Papaja Valeri 3 months ago

      These frames are made for an unlapped cpu with raised edges, I might be wrong but it seems to me like using them on a product that differs in spec would do more harm than good.

    • andrew szerbiak
      andrew szerbiak 3 months ago

      Get a glass side panel and bam instant flat surface to lap your cpu on

  • J Lund
    J Lund 3 months ago +3

    It really seems like the Thermalright solution is the best option, it outperforms the much more expensive Thermal Grizzly option at around 1/3 the price, but doesn't cut corners to the extent that the sketchier basic Walmart/generic versions do.

  • David Cardoza
    David Cardoza 3 months ago +21

    Walmart is 3 steps ahead of us. When you eventually have to upgrade your motherboard after this next intel gen you wont need the frame anymore and you can throw it on the wall with a photo inside.

    • csorrows
      csorrows 3 months ago +1

      Walmart isn't anywhere. This was a 3rd party seller.

  • Ryan W.
    Ryan W. 3 months ago +39

    As Mike is the “cooler” technician, does that make him more popular? And derBauer in his own miniature frame is awesome! Nice touch!

  • Kevin Mahoney
    Kevin Mahoney 3 months ago +1

    When I first put my computer together, I thought something was wrong with the socket since it closed so hard. I thought for sure it was going to ruin my CPU. I'm glad to see more of these hitting the market. I finally went ahead and ordered the Thermalright one. I'll find out how much of an improvement it is in a month or so when it gets here.

  • BlueDragon
    BlueDragon 3 months ago +3

    The fact that more and more of these contact frames have to be made is just so disappointing from Intel. They really have to fix it for Meteor Lake.
    I hope there will be an option for a X299 2066 type contact frame for it.

  • Ange Pano
    Ange Pano 3 months ago +11

    Could not get the TG frame (out of stock) but I got the TR one and used TG grease to feel better and more loyal to DerBauer 😃 It did help thermals noticeably no more throttling with the same config. Yeah the TR one was super easy to install since it just bottoms out.

  • Michael Marini
    Michael Marini 3 months ago +3

    Using a Thermalright one, after the 12700k temperature started to increase. Very decent piece of kit, more forgiving regarding torque and here helped dropping maximum temperature by 8C.

  • 802 Garage
    802 Garage 3 months ago +60

    Basically, these things are not actually that complicated or hard to make, pick your thermals reducing poison based on your budget, time constraints, and values. 😁

    • Völundr Frey
      Völundr Frey Month ago

      ​@Josh J Copying the design is easy, manufacturing it to spec and doing it cheaply is difficult. I think it's the price that stops them because if the copy costs nearly as much as the real one then people will just pick the real one.

    • FastGecko5
      FastGecko5 3 months ago +3

      @Josh J I'd argue the Chinese ones are better because they don't have that weird floating thing that requires absolutely perfect torque to work.

    • Ryan Morrison
      Ryan Morrison 3 months ago +4

      @Josh J Can you do it? Go get me a file I can run through a CNC machine and I'll go make em for you

    • MrTrilbe
      MrTrilbe 3 months ago +2

      @Josh J lets see you reverse engineer something, chances are just be reference images to sub millimetre tolerances

    • Josh J
      Josh J 3 months ago

      Not hard to make but Chinese can't even copy the perfect design that Thermal Grizzly made, come on, is it that hard to just make the same design and everything like Thermal Grizzly perfect product and just sell it for 8 $, they would make a lot of money, but if they are lazy or not smart enough to do it and just make's some crappy frame.

  • OneShotCS
    OneShotCS 3 months ago +1

    Bought the thermalright one off Amazon for $13 (arrived in 2 days). Easy to install, performance looks slightly better, easier to manage for repasting/cleaning due to flat surface. Paired with an ek basic 360mm aio, I can push my 12700k to 5.2ghz (8 p-cores, no hyper-threading or e-cores) and 4.8ghz ring.

  • Sviatoslav Damaschin
    Sviatoslav Damaschin 3 months ago +3

    I'm fairly certain that Intel would have gone bankrupt if they included a proper 20cents CPU Frame in their 999$+ motherboards. /s

  • Makin Computers
    Makin Computers 3 months ago +2

    To make it easier to get the plastic washers on first time, you should put something through the hole, like a small bolt or the torx tool they provide, and then slide the washer over it onto the contact frame.

  • Casix03
    Casix03 3 months ago +10

    Honestly for the price that it costs, I'd expect the Thermal Grizzly contact frame to include a small torque wrench, like the one that comes with Threadripper CPUs

    • XantheFIN
      XantheFIN 3 months ago

      ​@Ryan Morrison I wait you show some proof for "cents" manufacturing for TORQUE screwdriver/wrench for specs like AMD.. i am pretty sure AMD would like to hear too of this yours "literal cents" manufacturer.

    • der8auer
      der8auer 3 months ago +3

      We looked into this while making the frame, but the tolerance e.g. the AMD wrench has already exceeds the spec we set for our frame. And price wise it seems impossible to make a low torque wrench below 15 USD

    • Ryan Morrison
      Ryan Morrison 3 months ago

      @tessierrr a torx wrench costs literal cents to include, threadripper price makes no difference

    • XantheFIN
      XantheFIN 3 months ago

      Have you checked torque screw drivers prices? Thermal Grizzly would not even consider buying a 100k stock of some special made AMD style small torque wrench screw driver.. you must be nuts.

    • Highborn
      Highborn 3 months ago

      Tg manufactures in Germany, and it make no sense whatsoever

  • AthosJosue
    AthosJosue 3 months ago +11

    That's an impressive improvement for something that simple, I wonder why the high end boards don't come with one of those from factory.

    • pronstorestiffi
      pronstorestiffi 3 months ago +2

      It should not be included at all, this product shouldn't even exist. They should have made better products to start with. This is silly.

    • Ariane Bouchard
      Ariane Bouchard 3 months ago

      It can't be pre-installed. It's ready to break something if you don't follow the instructions very closely. It would be a liability.

  • Kellen
    Kellen 3 months ago

    Seeing all these frames, I really want to see some made for older cpus. I'd love to see the difference as an example of how it would affect my 4790k. Or some of the older but still useful ones like 7700k, 9900k, etc. Would also be fun to see how these could affect the new upcoming LGA based AMD cpus.

  • Quarky
    Quarky 3 months ago +1

    Washers are easy to lose, I would welcome having a few extras. Same goes for when a product needs a lot of screws (e.g. a case).

  • Eliack55
    Eliack55 3 months ago +10

    It's kind of amazing that Intel is just letting these guys compete to fix their CPU instead of doing it themselves.

    • M D
      M D 3 months ago

      Intel isn’t in charge of building out the right kind of Ilm it’s the board partners faut

  • Steven
    Steven 3 months ago

    I'd be interested in seeing the performance of these tested on one which has been de-lidded and swapped to a better IHS.

  • Cromefire_
    Cromefire_ 3 months ago

    It would be interesting how well the lapping features of the thermal grizzly frame work

  • cgwworldministries
    cgwworldministries 3 months ago +1

    I just want to add that if you want to ensure the screws stay in place, use loctite on the screws. It's what we do with car engines when we torque them properly.

  • So good 4U
    So good 4U 3 months ago +1

    I got a Cheukchi frame off amazon and the heat reduction in my H1 was hugely helpful.

  • Leonardo Avellar
    Leonardo Avellar 3 months ago +7

    At this point we should be pushing for a redesign for the stock frame for high end chips/mobo

  • Redmage913
    Redmage913 3 months ago

    I wonder if flatness testing needs to be done upon the CPU itself, along with current testing of the cooler in question. If you have a CPU whose IHS has significant depth variations, does that need to be taken into account when testing whatever's strapped to it?
    I've heard things like X generation of CPU uses a convex IHS, so I'm wondering how this is factored into studying any cooler's mounting pressure. If this factor is not relevant, please correct me, as I'd much rather be wrong rather than remaining ignorant.

  • MajinRoot
    MajinRoot 3 months ago +5

    Love you guys been watching forever. Build my PC based on your benchmarks. Now I'm learning IT. Wanted to say thanks for helping to show the path. Linus is like the Pinky to Your Brain(Pinky & The Brain Cartoon) Mad respect for your nonbias reviews

  • Nomisuke Deadman
    Nomisuke Deadman 3 months ago +1

    What if GN were to do a comparison using a lapped IHS and a perfectly flat cooler to see if that made a difference? I know they've experimented with IHS lapping in the past and it has shown considerable temperature improvements.

  • casper18795
    casper18795 3 months ago

    The plastic washers vs the one that covers the whole contact: same difference. The pressure is coming from where the screws are anchored. The frame is being loaded away from the board, not toward the board. The pressure distribution will need to be on the back side of the motherboard. The washers/plastic plate is nothing more than a spacer.

  • bluephreakr
    bluephreakr 3 months ago

    What's wild to me is that nobody made an ILM that's just Intel's, except fastened _at both sides_ with the same spring mechanism. That could even up pressure on both ides and make the need of a contact frame completely unnecessary.

  • Rorschach1024
    Rorschach1024 2 months ago

    It is pretty common for manufacturers to throw extra hardware into a kit because missing or lost hardware is a huge customer support issue. So they are assuming you will drop it non the floor and it will roll under your refrigerator or something.

  • hags2k
    hags2k 3 months ago

    I love how Steve can acknowledge things like the personal ethics that come into play with manufacturing decisions without sounding preachy. “If that’s something you care about, great. If not you’ve got cheaper options.” It’s a little thing but I appreciate it.

  • vedomedo
    vedomedo Month ago

    Ended up ordering a Thermal Grizzly one, simply because it was the only available one here unless I wanted to order from China and wait for ages. A bit of a bummer seeing that the competition is slightly better (even though it overall is a net gain anyway).

  • Eric Johnson
    Eric Johnson 3 months ago +6

    At what point is a good frame going to start coming direct from the board maker? Would only make sense with enthusiast-class boards, but seems like there aren't going to be a lot of enthusiasts paying $500+ for a high-end board, going through all the work of maximizing cooling, and not doing this mod. Or would Intel even allow it?

    • MiGujack3
      MiGujack3 3 months ago +2

      The won't. The risk of ruining the pins is too high. Unless you are referring to a custom ILM with lever(s) of course.

  • Tiberius
    Tiberius 3 months ago

    got both frames Thermalright and the one from Thermal grizzly (in case i fail at installing the thermal grizzly one the thermalright one looks easier to install) huge improvement over the stock one i had 6-8 degrees in some cases cpu never goes above 59 degrees under load , dont mind paying a bit more for the thermal grizlly one because all there products are really good

  • Scuffed
    Scuffed 3 months ago +3

    Thanks for these videos Steve. I brought a thermalright contact frame. Took 3 weeks to arrive. I saw a drop of 5 degrees on a 12600KF that has been overclocked to 4.9 P cores and 3.9 for the E cores.

  • Bakuretsu Tenshi
    Bakuretsu Tenshi 3 months ago

    With Thermal Grizzlys floating design, it would be possible to install the CPU in a way so that it is not plane parallel to the motherboard. Could this lead to uneven contact with the cold plate of the cooler? Could you test that by not tighten it down evenly?

  • Al-Mothafar Al-Hasan
    Al-Mothafar Al-Hasan 3 months ago +8

    Just a question, why does the pressure map different between 12700, 12900, and 12900KS, should not be the same CPU form? or is it cause the IHS is a little bent for some of the items, I mean if you bought another 12700 will it be different? does lapping help with changing the pressure map?
    As I see 12700 is better in TG, almost equal in TR but for 12900KS it is a clear win for TR.
    How and why?

    • Skylancer727
      Skylancer727 3 months ago +3

      There is manufacturing variance in nearly every product. Machines are more accurate than us people, but they themselves are not perfect either. In fact, in the early days machines were a lot less reliable than people, it's the main reason Philips screw drivers took off as the machines didn't have to be as accurate to not shred the screw heads. These lower tier CPUs also get the lower quality heat spreaders as they make less heat than their higher end counterparts.
      In general, lapping a CPU can make it better, but it can also make it worse. Many coolers are designed with certain generations of CPUs in mind which either are concave or convex slightly so they tend to tune the coolers to be the opposite. If you just lapped one of them your temps may actually go up. If you're going to lap your CPU, you should also lap your cooler unless you are very certain it's completely smooth.

  • Rorschach1024
    Rorschach1024 2 months ago

    Since the 12th Gen ILM is so similar to the previous generations. One wonders if a similar replacement frame might be a good idea.

  • Vib
    Vib 3 months ago

    5 washers makes sense. Pretty standard to get spares with all PC components. A part that costs one penny is likely easier to include vs dealing with returns when someone drops a small part and loses it

  • zakius
    zakius 2 months ago

    with CPUs emitting as much heat as they do and doing it on as small area as they do manufacturing tolerances should be way tighter, it's crazy you can get improved thermals by delidding, placing the IHS better, lapping it manually and changing the frame... and each of these actions matter

  • TallThinBaldMan
    TallThinBaldMan 3 months ago

    You can machine a frame with as much as precision as you can but when you're using plastic washers or any non precision machined spacer you will always have random contact because of the tolerances on the plastic spacers.

  • Wicked Proxy
    Wicked Proxy 3 months ago +1

    A lot of furniture that I put together for display in a retail store often included extra nuts, bolts, and washers with the idea that if one was messed up or you lost one there was spares. Maybe they had the same idea here?

  • Command Line Vulpine
    Command Line Vulpine 3 months ago +4

    The Thermalright one feels like the best cost to quality ratio

  • pack.wolf
    pack.wolf 3 months ago +5

    Hoping you’ll have a quick look at the AM5 stock mechanism (and potentially 3rd party options in case should some be available) once the platform drops

    • Jordon B
      Jordon B Month ago

      Der Bauer already did. His own company has rubber washers that give a better seal for people that change coolers and overclock. The metal shim is not necessary and would short out the surface mounted components in the notches. No the stock mechanism is not bad like Intel and the back plate on AMD boards is robust but different between the AM4 and AM5.

  • Jeremy Matthies
    Jeremy Matthies 3 months ago

    @Gamers Nexus nicely done. I do have a quick question though, how well do the AIO coolers work with those brackets on the mounting end of things and for AIO cooling the new 12th gen?

  • Dan Simms
    Dan Simms 3 months ago

    Can't wait to see these covered again with the next gen of Ryzen chips, I'm sure it will happen.

  • TheFingerman37
    TheFingerman37 3 months ago

    Are the frames completely flat and would they remain so under heat/pressure? When the frames are removed could they be re-used or would they buckle after removal and not give the performance? Would the surrounding traces and components have a bearing on how level and flat the frame stays, i.e. the flexing of the motherboard with a large amount of traces or components? Would it not be easy to put your own marks on the bolts and the holes to work out the number of turns? If the CPU die cover is not perfectly level would this have some bearing on the contact diagrams?

  • Joel Carson
    Joel Carson 3 months ago

    You should have the CPU Frame framed in a suitable frame by an experienced picture framing professional so that it can be in frame during your review videos. That way the frames can display their wall decor colors and graphics in a frame that accents it properly. And yes, I have worked in the picture framing business in the distant past so that I can frame this subject with some authority.

  • Scott Hanvey
    Scott Hanvey 2 months ago

    I'm fairly certain am4 would not need something like this due to how CPU is secured vs intels but if I can squeeze some better cooling into my system I'd love to. Does am4/amd have a product like this it may benefit from?

  • Eric Wheelhouse
    Eric Wheelhouse 3 months ago

    I actually just bought this a week ago it seems to be pretty good for what it it. I have a 12400f with a 120mm aio and it is staying below 45-50c which is crazy.

  • Iskander Vigoa Pérez
    Iskander Vigoa Pérez 2 months ago

    you are making the best videos about this hands down! now I feel more confident on installing mine... can't wait for it to arrive

  • Josh B
    Josh B 3 months ago +1

    out of curiousity what was the thickness difference on the supplied washers?

  • John Paul Bacon
    John Paul Bacon 2 months ago

    Another great video. Thanks for always making these well done videos.

  • Albert Zhen
    Albert Zhen 3 months ago

    It would truly be interesting to see the memory being able to run at XMP for all three frames?

  • NeerieD20
    NeerieD20 2 months ago

    Thank you so much for those videos. I just recently decided to upgrade my pc and I just ordered the Thermalright frame while I wait for the rest of my parts.
    Might as well install this right from the start.

  • william pinnock
    william pinnock 3 months ago +8

    Waited a few weeks for an order of the Thermal Grizzly frame but it never came into stock. Saw the previous video on the Thermal Right frame and bought one on Amazon for about half the price of the Thermal Grizzly. It worked. 12900k was constantly going into 90s under load prior with massive temperature spikes all over the place with the Intel frame. Not only did the contact frame lower temps under load by approximately the same amount as seen here, but the temps were much more consistent. No thermal throttling any more, though I had undervolted prior to the change of frame and left the same values applied as it was perfectly stable. I'm not an XOC guy, but it's nice to know that I have some headroom if I wanted it now.

    • Steph
      Steph 3 months ago

      @william pinnock also, you are correct about the X3D having more cooling complications due to the stacked V-Cache. If anything, it just exacerbated the existing issues that the 5800X had when it came to cooling. At the same wattage, a 5800X (non-3D) will run hotter than a 12600K simply because the die is more thermally dense. See for yourself.

    • Steph
      Steph 3 months ago

      @william pinnock due to fierce competition, pretty much all major manufacturers are now pushing their products far past their efficiency ranges in order to attain maximum performance. Pascal (for Nvidia) and Haswell (for Intel) were arguably the best showcases of power efficiency due to lack of pushes from their competitors. Now, we have gaming GPUs pushing past the 400W range and consumer CPUs exceeding the 250W range at *stock* settings... and it's only gonna get worse.
      The ILM sucks, yeah, but it's acceptable enough for Intel to give it a stamp of approval. The main problem, really, is that good ILMs (like the dual lever Intel HEDT sockets) are either too expensive, or (in the case of these contact frames) not idiot proof. People were already complaining about the cost of 12th gen motherboards due to the price increase in the ILM cost; imagine what that would be like with the nicer dual lever version.

    • william pinnock
      william pinnock 3 months ago

      @Steph yeah, I appreciate that, but 3*140mm radiators for a CPU should be massive overkill in cooling for a desktop product, and the fact that it was overheating was entirely down to the poor design of the Intel CPU frame to my mind, well that and the excess power requested. It would overheat even when not running the GPU beyond idle.
      I thought the issue with the 5800X3D was down to trying to cool the die through the stacked cache chips in part though.

    • Ryan Morrison
      Ryan Morrison 3 months ago +1

      Honestly, chips are pushed to their limits nowadays anyways, better to undervolt and save some power than OC

    • Steph
      Steph 3 months ago

      @william pinnock CPUs have significantly more heat density-that's why they typically have an IHS to increase the surface area. GPU dies on the other hand (especially on the 3090) are absolutely massive, which makes them easier to cool using brute force.
      That's also the reason why the 5800X is harder to cool than the 5900/5950X-it has less physical die space to dissipate heat.

  • Zazyman
    Zazyman 3 months ago

    11:06 Mike is such a cool technician, in fact I think he deserves the title of "cooler" technician.

  • drassx615
    drassx615 3 months ago

    I know that AMD is releasing it's new socket soon, I sort of want to see what the modders and overclockers do with that one, or will the AMD socket even allow for or need such modifications. Also I thought GN did a recent story about the prospect of chip manufacturing possibly moving to the US in the next decade or so, but google has stopped being my friend lately, or I could just be crazy, if I'm not crazy I'd love it if someone could post the link to the story somewhere.

  • Zeph
    Zeph 3 months ago

    Would getting a contact frame for the 12600k/kf be necessary? I couldn't help but notice it wasn't included in the testing. Haven't yet bought the cpu yet and I was hoping to see if it's needed. Thanks a million in advance.

  • albundy06
    albundy06 3 months ago +1

    It's really sad that you can purchase a modern day CPU and motherboard that has such a terrible solution that changing this out can make such a big difference.
    It's really just sad that they're making chips that draw as much power as these are capable of pulling at stock and have this terrible of a solution on them.

  • Silent Death
    Silent Death 3 months ago +2

    I can't wait for the $2 one to be labeled as "power tool"

  • Skybuck Flying
    Skybuck Flying 2 months ago

    If those thermal grizzly edges are sharp I would worry it starts to cut into the PCB over time, potentially damaging connections, also without such a solution perhaps traces on motherboard will break/fracture/fragment and the motherboard won't work anymore. Add some vibration from cooling fans and it does start to look like a ticking time bomb/dissaster, life expectancy somewhere between 1 and a few years not more.

  • andydsm
    andydsm 3 months ago

    As always GN overdelivers and creates excellent material :) On an unrelated topic, is it just me being unable to find one, or are Thermalright frames not available in EU?

  • Allen Jaynes
    Allen Jaynes 3 months ago

    I actually have this, It shipped the fastest from amazon compared to the thermal take one. I had no issues with installation

  • imwithyou38
    imwithyou38 3 months ago

    ive heard of binyou, u also make switch controllers and from reviews of switch controllers they seem to be pretty good pro controllers alternatives. so with both of these in mind it must be at least a decent brand for cheap alternatives

  • StriKe jk
    StriKe jk 3 months ago +1

    I'm amazed Walmart sells them at all. They usually buy in bulk and I can not fathom hundred of thousands of people buying that CPU & being informed enough to want a frame

  • Papaja Valeri
    Papaja Valeri 3 months ago

    So, what I'm taking from this is that random wall decorations are a better mounting mechanism for an intel cpu than what intel makes.

  • RafeeDaBoy
    RafeeDaBoy 3 months ago

    You only showed the thermal results for the 12900KS which had pretty good contact across the board. I think it would be to interesting to see the thermal results with the 12700 which had very poor contact with the walmart frame.

  • tomppeli
    tomppeli 3 months ago +22

    Having bought the drink coasters, I can vouch for their quality.
    Not exactly worth it for me including shipping and import tax if I was looking for _just a four-pack of coasters_
    That's not the point, though.
    Most products, like the GN coasters, in my opinion, are to show support to the creator in a non-donation way, as in, one gets something in return for their charity.

    • volvo09
      volvo09 3 months ago +4

      I see things like that as you do, plus a hobby related collectable or themed piece, which doesn't always have to be a logical price, but even with that said the GN coasters are bar quality, which is awesome.

    • Gerd L. Plüü
      Gerd L. Plüü 3 months ago +8

      That's true, but it certainly helps if the products are actually not just junk. And I'm happy to say that everything I got so far is actually pretty good.

  • Daniel Williams
    Daniel Williams 3 months ago

    Couldn't find a thermal grizzly plate but I got a thermalright no problem. It was more like 16€ though. Totally worth it. My noctua cooler was having a hard time with my 12700k during certain games and certain tasks. After installing the thermalright contact plate it shaved off 10 to 15c during 4k video processing. It went from high 80s to low 70s. Crazy.

  • Vincent Groenewold
    Vincent Groenewold 3 months ago +1

    Thermal right is still the choice for me, yes it's more expensive for actually no difference, but I care a lot about not buying from China and straight from local suppliers. Yes, that's more expensive, but also yes... that's actually the price it normally would be, with workers who get actually paid well etc. Apart from that, in my 3D printing hobby, I got very frustrated with all the soft metal from China, guess not the case here, but I don't want to take that gamble again.

    • Aleksa Žunjić
      Aleksa Žunjić 2 months ago

      Your local suppliers are still supplied from China, you just pay additional tax on stupid in order to fill good about yourself :D :D

  • LazyTV
    LazyTV 3 months ago

    Would using a torque screwdriver significantly change the results of the pressure testing?

  • sultanofsick
    sultanofsick 3 months ago

    I wonder if there's and "in-between" solution. Still quick-detach in that you don't need to screw down and be careful about torque, but better than intel's stock method. Maybe AMD will have something interesting in the future.

  • Kapten Hiu
    Kapten Hiu 3 months ago +6

    After seeing this, previous videos, and some people complaining about bad thermals on 12th gen CPU on forums out there. I refuse to buy any chip from intel that is *not* a perfect square. This is a bad design choice from Intel. It seems to me that Intel punish their customers for buying their product.

  • CattyRayheart
    CattyRayheart 3 months ago

    I like the thermalright one for ease of instalation, but I like the derbauer one for paying people reasonably. But it;s kind of irrelevant since I am not likely to buy an intel CPU this generation.

  • Michael Thompson
    Michael Thompson 3 months ago +1

    I generally don’t agree with knockoffs and what they take from developers investigating in R&D etc …… however, I do find here in Australia 🇦🇺, that Thermal Grizzly products are very pricey and unless i get them on sale or clearance sale …… they’re not on my radar for my pc gaming needs 🤯😇

  • Zekerbox
    Zekerbox 2 months ago

    Could a test be done with all of the frames modified without spacers/washers to float like the thermal grizzly frame and all 3 torqued with an actual toque device?

  • Andy Parker
    Andy Parker 3 months ago

    Does changing the ILM affect the board warranty (assuming they can even tell you've changed it)?

  • ging
    ging 3 months ago

    You know when Steve makes jokes, they're always decent and gold standard. This man has no time to fuck around, that's how you know that the joke is a good one.

  • supra107
    supra107 3 months ago +2

    The constant lack of acknowledgement of the photo in the Thermal Grizzly frame is just gold. 👌

  • Menthix
    Menthix 3 months ago

    Wow I had no idea, that stock frames were that bad. Almos 10°C drop is huge. I already ordered one - the cheap one.
    Thanks GN.

  • The1RandomFool
    The1RandomFool 3 months ago

    I'm surprised Walmart is even selling something like this when they barely sell computers anymore.

  • Shionne
    Shionne 3 months ago +2

    Probably a good video for GN Extras - how to mount your "wall decor" to an actual wall. Preferably with comparison charts for the Linus method, Jay method and the "correct" method.

  • Motivation Exceeds Me
    Motivation Exceeds Me 2 months ago

    10 degrees difference just from putting what is basically a gasket in is amazing.

  • Daniel Louw
    Daniel Louw 2 months ago

    What's the purpose of the frame/ilm in the first place? Would the cooler and the pressure it puts on the IHS not override whatever pressure the frame applies?
    Can you do a test with no frame in place at all?

  • Branden H
    Branden H 2 months ago

    Thanks for testing all the new frames. Got a cheap on off of Amazon that I haven't installed yet.

  • Scott
    Scott 3 months ago

    Would be interesting to see these results with a copper IHS