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Toby Young | Woke Culture HAS Gone Too Far - 3/8 | Oxford Union
- Published on Jan 11, 2023 veröffentlicht
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Initially used as a term to empower awareness of systemic inequalities in society, wokeism is now a deeply divisive term. The media's perpetuation of woke culture has made this term a buzzword. For some, being woke is part of the antidote of acknowledging the instruments of oppression. For others, it is a dangerously absolutist ideology, a sort of reverse McCarthyism, corroding liberal society and encouraging self-imposed victimhood. Is the 'war on woke' a legitimate phenomenon, or a reactionary distraction from the real problems being 'woke' addresses?
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Comments • 3 372
You don't have to be an Oxford graduate to know this madness has gone way way to far
Most of the Oxford undergraduates (and possibly graduates), are well on board with the woke BS
@Robert Cottam I was educated at UCL long before the emergence of 'wokism', when degrees were worth a lot more than they are today. Your one sentence second paragraph states: "Ignorance has few benefits except to the purveyors of the tabloid newspapers which exploit it", impliedly suggesting that the 'woke' agenda is some form of enlightenment. My original comment was based on the supposition that these students reflect the bias of the institution within which they're being educated (brainwashed).
@Richard Du Plessis
I agree with you that degrees have declined in value as the number of universities - many of them nothing of the kind - has increased. But, nevertheless, the élite institutions, such as UCL, remain so.
The principles which underlie so-called 'wokeism' and 'identity politics' precede both both you and me - unless you're very old. 'Phenomenology', for instance, entered the schools of both Philosophy and Mathematics in the late '60s /early '70s.
Unfortunately, the activities of a few hotheads who simply or deliberately misunderstand the noble aims of inclusion and social equality have brought discredit with them. But the concept of 'uniqueness'; a cohort of one, remains. And it's been there for a long time in the writings of Camus, Sartre, Hugo, Byron... No one describes them as 'deviant' anymore - although they were all thought so, once.
Similarly, the suffragettes were once thought as dangerous, deranged or both. Only the boneheaded would think that now. In time, radical ideas often become mainstream.
More broadly, I don't have any problem with folk 'identfying' in any way they see fit. It's not my business. Neither do I have a problem in accepting that the lives of those possessing more melanin in their skin matter just as much as mine. What, then, is actually wrong with the ideas of 'woke' folk - apart from the shenanigans of relatively few dingbats?
The second paragraph of my first response, although short is discrete.
Most of them are part of the problem so let them argue with themselves.
Im so very happy to have come across these clips. So good to see intelligent people pushing back on the destructive woke movement.
What did they destroy
Nice to see that intelligent people still exist
@Smell The Coffee tell me about ONE person who had their career destroyed
Well said. We need things like this that can be shared to people who still have any moral integrity, but aren’t sure how to properly exercise that ability
You mean people who have not been perverted.
Well said Toby, common sense at its best. Great points, excellent perspective.
As a recovering woke individual, it is beyond a breath of fresh air to hear such debates now at the center of stage. I for one support the ideals of the “woke” movement, but have lost faith in the tactics and lack of a concise and clear platform that doesn’t involve canceling or berating people into submission. It is indeed a form of fascism, where the left circle back on themselves.
By identifying yourself as a 'recovering woke individual' you're not quite recovered yet but I certainly applaud your awareness.
@Solo Vitality not all “woke” is bad, there are many admirable goals of such ideology. Unfortunately progressive culture has been hijack by extremists which are never good. I was never an extremist as well not all conservative culture is positive, it has its fair share of extremists. To me woke culture is any one who try’s to tell others how to live on both sides of the spectrum.
@JoshuaAM We need to get rid of this awful word “Woke”. The associations now are putrid. Let’s just go back to the word we used for centuries: compassionate.
Brilliant, articulate and inspirational! Thank you Toby Young!
Good speech. I hope we are at a turning point now where the woke backlash and cancel culture will gradually be faded out. Only time will tell, but I hope that soon we are looking back on this terrible episode through the rear-view mirror.
A lot of damage has already been done, let's get back on track as a society.
Seems unlikely as its taught as fact throughout the schooling process in the UK
"Won't SOMEBODY please think of the CHILDREN!" Every generation has a coronary about people who appear to be shattering their little world of Old Normal. Live a little longer, and you will see it. We had the anti slavery crowd whom everyone labelled as insane, then we had the suffragettes, then the swingers, then the ducktails, the hippies.....We just give the same thing new names. And always people talk of the horrors of change and "those weird people destroying our traditions and beliefs." Young pups. You all make me laugh heartily.
It could have been good, but his ending killed it. He's fine with endorsing all of their degeneracy as long as they just stop being mean about it.
Well said. Makes me sad how today patriotism in the UK is considered a negative thing by so many people. I'm proud of my country and what's its achieved! 🇬🇧
Many still are mate. Just not on socials
That means English patriotism/ pride from what I see on and in media. There is a real ignorance to what that really is. See John Cleese, ‘It’s Coming Home’ , general knowledge of any Ulster Scots history.
‘Patriots’ in Scotland, eg groups of Rangers FC supporters talk Scotland down. It’s more complex than a Toby thinks.
Same here in the US.
As a history buff, the England in 1940-1945 wouldn't recognize this England today.
this and Konstantin's speeches are why no-platforming became so popular. Good to see debate taking place. Hope this spreads to other places.
Uhhhhh did you not also watch James Lindsay’s speech???? It’s the best one of all. He destroys woke culture WHILST BEING ON THEIR SIDE OF THE DEBATE.
That was an absolute tour de force, Toby. A brilliant and articulate exposition of the flawed approach embraced by the Woke cult. Thank you.
Listening to this man is like a breath of fresh air. I hope these people are taking all this in.
As long as woke means being a descent human being and having empathy...(WHICH IT DOES) and also not being part of Tory"isum"...or believing msm bull crap (WHICH IT DOES)...then I am extremely pleased to be "woke".
@spotable2 If you are the opposite of a Daily Mail reader, then you are woke and a decent human being.
I wish we had something like this here in the US. Good speeches and a free exchange of ideas.
Your implying we don't? Or just not something as this hosted by a reputable University?
WUT? You have billion of those.
LOLOL. we do on more campuses than you can count
This guy was very good with the debate topic. His description of woke culture makes me think we need a new debate on what the solution will be to steer humanity back on track to solve the mass mental illness now afflicting most of the western world.
The answer is to go back to our roots - true biblical Christianity. However, everyone knows that will never happen - its morals and teachings "are too problematic" for modern ideas of "morality" and acceptable lifestyles, and it makes people far too uncomfortable about confronting their sins.
For me it's clear that the promoted use of social media in our society (Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Tiktok) as a 'normal' thing to do every day has messed up a lot of people's mental wellness, without people even realising. Social media can foment addiction (the constant scrolling and stimulation), it promotes polarisation of views, also promotes constant comparison with others and oversharing / lack of boundaries. I have to say my life really changed when I stopped listening to 'the crowd' and stopped using Facebook, Instagram as I felt it was making me compare myself and waste my time focusing on superficial things instead of exploring and developing my own potential which is much more exciting and wholesome!
@MV Agreed, but what is to be done about it? (genuine question)
Really interesting speech. Here in the U.S., where the woke "mob" seems particularly prevalent, it's worth mentioning that most people you meet on the street wouldn't be able to tell you what woke actually means, rather just express their distaste for it and their association of it with "the left" or "liberalism." The points in this speech were all really pretty good, but one of the biggest takeaways for me is the categorization and identification of woke itself, and explaining why it's so harmful despite the underlying intent. That's no small thing, because the scope of hate and blame-mongering within woke is fairly vast at this point.
Educators and students censoring themselves should be a warning bell, but I think most are ignoring it, which is possibly the absolute worst thing we could do. Ignoring the situation enables those who identify as woke to go further, to do more to harm, censor and cancel those who would dare speak against them. And as correctly mentioned in this speech, if one dares to attempt to engage with a woke individual in some sort of intelligent discourse about the topic, the effort will typically be met with vitriol and name calling, essentially a tantrum where screaming obscenities will surely make the logical person just walk away and thus allowing the woke individual to "win."
Which begs the question: If there's no real logical argument fueling woke, but rather some sort of quest for victim-hood, why are we allowing it to run rampant and cause so much harm?
Excellent speech by Toby Young, a man I have a lot of respect for as he has put forward a reasoned and outspoken point of view, as he always does. I would, incidentally, highly recommend Toby's book, published some time ago now, entitled How to Lose Friends and Alienate People, about his time on Vanity Fair magazine.
Amazing. I really recommend this book "The Rise of Victimhood Culture: Microaggressions, Safe Spaces, and the New Culture Wars" by Bradley Campbell. It totally explains what the hell is going on at campuses.
The problem I have with “wokeness” is that more often than not it is not based on facts, is inaccurate and seems to be a bunch of angry activists who just follow whatever movement is the latest flavour but ignore even more pressing topics in society.
At last someone who is speaking sensibly. I hope he does not get cancelled. He's quite right that " woke culture " is an oxymoron.
The statement that we do not disagree with what woke culture are trying to achieve but its methodology is a major reason that many rebel against this theology.
The other point he brings out well is how those who stand for social justice seem stuck on the idea that their own said country is uniquely "racist" without asking about the wider world and ignoring the history victories we have had and why and how they came about.
@Azure Badger mic drop
Thank you Mr. Young for your clarity, courage, and congruence. I was born in Iran, you raised the issue of the brave Iranian women who are selflessly fighting the hordes of ignorance and darkness.
Wow Toby Young you put the point across in such an intelligent, elegant way , that is exactly how the majority of the British public feel, we don't want to NOT have a discussion on the topics of race,gender, but will not tolerate the intolerance of the mob that refuses to hear both sides of the debate.
We as a country regardless of race, gender, beliefs would love nothing more than to resolve the injustices that our fellow citizens are going through or have been through, but NOT at the cost of further hate,discrimination, racism or ignorance, that will NEVER change anything.
Mr. Young was brilliant. Strong arguments, polite, courteous, professional and blunt with his questioners. A damn perfect job.
@Partida Portet I will look into your claim. My guess is, in much the same way that folks intentionally misquote Jordan Peterson about so-called enforced monogamy, you are probably intentionally misquoting something this fellow said. With enforced monogamy, we know Peterson meant peer pressure, essentially. Let's say friends and family members saying to a married son, daughter or friend "Hey, if you have sex outside of your marriage it will hurt your partner's feelings and probably ruin your marriage. It will also hurt your children." - - That was what Peterson meant, I don't know what this man said, or what he meant, but I would bet dollars to donuts it's that same kind of intentional misquote, based on disingenuous virtue signaling.
If only the true men of dday and beyond could see what is happening to our great country, If it wasn't for great Britain the world would be a very different place. Thank fk for Toby young & co , Keep up the good work men . 🇬🇧
I have a growing respect and admiration for this man.
Spot on. Insulting people does not persuade them that you are right.
You say this as he insults an entire movement. The usual response to this is "Oh you're jus too triggered to understand when people are telling you facts". But again, maybe Toby Young and you are getting triggered over them telling YOU facts that you happen to take as insults.
@Courtney Haynes The movement deserves insults.
It claims the moral high ground on kindness and fairness yet in action is divisive, deceitful, completely dishonest and hateful.
@Courtney Haynes this movement is nothing more than a collection of people who have too much time on their and want to feel special because they don't have much resistance in their life.
I'd argue it solidifies that person's stance rather that opening their mind to a differing opinion. That's something extremely difficult to do even if one is respectful, insulting someone out of hand for a differing opinion will only drive them into a radicalised perspective. That's my experience at least.
Praise God for this Man of God for standing up for the truth of the Gospel in such a time as this and in a extremely articulate debate. Our whole Christian society needs more men and women to speak the truth of God’s word. I have a dear son in a homosexual relationship. My husband and I would never tell him that this is God’s intention for his life.
This man will definitely be on the right side of history.
But as always it won't be realized until much later.
Yes, Right Wing history
He failed his high school and only got into Oxford, the most prestigious university in the UK, because his rich dad called the college. Lovely fella.
It gives hope to see there are still reasonable people out there.
As an American, I'm glad to see that we are not alone in our struggles.
Great to hear common sense thank you Toby for being our voice and taking the Woke to book because it is SO BIASED.
I have never seen a more thought and language policing, authoritarian group of people than the trans activists.
They have gone far beyond the "live and let live" line and thus, lost my sympathy and support. Making enemies from people that could be your allies seems like a very bad strategy. They deserve every bit of the backlash they get.
Well said. They have made life very difficult for their truly gender dysphoric brothers and sisters.
I agree. And I'm guessing it could be something to do with the fact that a good portion of people in this movement are twisted men who want to legally get into women's changing rooms and toilets for purely deviant sexual gratification reasons - and that is a very strong driving force.
@tancho103 And what about twisted women who want to get into mens changing rooms?
@Silas Wild A mythical creature most men wish existed
As an American this was Amazing to hear! ⭐️🌎
As a conservative living in America I can assure you we feel the exact same way about wokeness as this gentleman does. Wokeness conducts itself with the same racial bigotry that they claim to oppose in all it's forms. Next time an American academic preaches to you about inclusivity ask them how many conservatives are in their sociology department. Hypocrisy abounds.
I think it's a great deal worse than hes saying it is. Not only does the whole woke approach to things not convert anyone to their side, It creates genuine resentment that turns people the other way. People who have to self censor resent it. Having a bunch of rich kids tell a bunch of working class adults that they are a laundry list of evil's creates resentment. Rather than getting people to not care one way or another if someone's trans, they're creating active animosity.
Always massive respect to JRM, the man never takes any expenses
Toby Young has a lot of credibility and intelligence.
When I first heard the term woke around 2 years ago ( I may have been slow to catch on )
Initially I had to ask quite a few friends and colleagues what it meant & at first I had to question am I woke ?
But now strangely I feel that I have been pushed further and further to the right . This has clarified that all along I was ( 2 years ago ) fairly balanced in my social and political outlook but mainly in defence of all I hold dear I am on the right and as a consequence far less tolerant
Let us hope that this woke nonsense dissipates so we can all get a firm grounding in common sense and reason once again ❤
That's exactly how I feel. I've always tried to be reasonable and fair but what is going on is driving me hard to the right.
Im considered a centrist myself years ago but now the woke make me a right leaner unconditionally
Always love the wisdom of Toby Young x thank you, much love and God bless from the UK xx
I do feel like the tide is turning, but I never really got the impression that this was meant to be a permenant or even long lived ideology. It's done it's job. It's revealed our weaknesses, how fickle our values and our utter cowardice as a nation.
Well done! Thank you for factual and rational truth.
This man nailed it....boy did he ever!!
Excellent Speech. True to his Word.
The Victorian era and the period of the British empire produced more technological scientific and social changes than any other in history. The flushing toilet, the Underground, corporate philanthropy, the Vote, the abolition of slavery, medicine, social mobility, museums, literature, public parks, and so much more. It wasn’t perfect for sure but it laid so many foundations for the things we take for granted today. The fact that so many young people are so utterly ignorant but also actively hostile towards Britain and western civilisation generally is a disgrace.
The vote? Are you suggesting that the British empire is responsible for voting? Or is it something more specific?
@George J Not just the vote according to them but museums, lierature and MEDICINE as well?! The fact they then go on to complain that the youth of today are ignorant of history is absolutely astounding! I can't tell if their post is serious or sarcasm.
@Uncle Grumpy your reading comprehension not so good. :( Very sad state of affairs. This person was clearly not saying ALL literature and medicine. My goodness!
Yay for pirate rock. Steal enough from around the world and you too can have nice things.
Nailed him right off the bat with calling out the misinformation Alex was spreading . If the woke side can't get the simple stuff right, they should give up their place in line for someone that has their facts straight.
Absolutely brilliant speech.
just awesome, i wish this will go viral and over TV so that everyone can hear the truth
Can you just imagine how this period will be discussed in the future? For the sake of all we hold dear, speak out against the oxymoron "woke culture " at every opportunity!
A sterling job Toby - you're a brave and honorable man.
Agree w Toby Young's speech 💯 per cent. Very well said.
Especially his praise of "the cistern chapel" 1:24
It almost doesnt seem fair when I listen to this debates, why do the Woke supporting side never send their best? Almost every debate Ive watched about the clash of these ideas the Woke side are quite cringe, lie, insult or debate a different topic entirely.
Recently the Matt Taibi and Gladwell debate was painful to watch...and I respect them.
@morbidbushidoI think they do. The issue is their proposition is so inherently flawed.
@Carl Cane ah, the Cisterf chapel. Our greatest bastion.
@J S can you give examples of where their beliefs are flawed?
Class inequality should be the biggest issue in the UK but it's not because of the ruling class.
Are we really truly doomed to always repeat the past with bad decisions? 😔
That is the ideal way of communicating our issues! Great speech, agree or disagreeing, with his points, shouldn't make any difference!
I literally clapped and cheered. Share, share, share!
You literally clapped and cheered. Fucking bizarre lol.
This whole Woke mental health issue has to be ONE of the most potent psychological manipulations at present. Least people are at last pointing out this in a milder manner....
Wow, he really shut down those angry leftist students with his kind, compassionate words. He gave them a taste of their own "Be kind" medicine in action.
I witnessed only a series of non sequiturs, glibly delivered.
He made no argument.
@Robert Cottam if you missed the argument I’d go back and rewatch it, as he had some spot in points, you actually proved those points with your very comment.
An interesting reply.
No. I missed nothing except his cogency.
I did note false-equivalence, superficial plausibility, weightlessness of intellect, absence of scholarship...
In a word, 'specious'; essentially, 'wortless:; 'populist'.
@Robert Cottam the first student said Ireland is being colonized by British, and he said a lot of people in ireland want it to be part of British so it can't be case of colonialism
2nd one said there were issues with the government that prevented it from providing trans care, but he said the government was willing to give it, but was afraid of doing it wrong or not good enough, which is enough to trigger the woke mob
thats what i gleaned, are you saying all of this is "series of non sequiturs, glibly delivered." words?
the shame is that it takes years for regular folk to put their foot down. but the people ahead of the curve that were bold enough to stand up early got completely obliterated.
Big fan of Toby he always makes sense.
“My proposal is this: once this technology [genetically engineered intelligence] becomes available, why not offer it free of charge to parents on low incomes with below-average IQs? Provided there is sufficient take-up, it could help to address the problem of flat-lining inter-generational social mobility and serve as a counterweight to the tendency for the meritocratic elite to become a hereditary elite. It might make all the difference when it comes to the long-term sustainability of advanced meritocratic societies.”
Toby Young [Eugenicist]
Well said,I wish more sensible debate was possible, woke doesn't help it separates and divides us even more, but maybe that's the real reason behind it, everyone to frightened to be honest, so so sad and where will it end?
Not without consequence, you really want to play that game we can. Violence begets violence if you can't meet people with words when they use words and think ruining their lives is an appropriate reaction then expect retaliation when people get pushed too far. They are damn lucky so many take the high road.
A few months ago, I spoke to a privately educated university student protesting about how women are oppressed in British society whilst I was walking through Manchester City Centre. She was young, probably about 20 years old, she was also extremely well spoken and what I would call a posh hipster. Dont get me wrong, I have adopted some hipster fashion myself, but I digress. Anyway, she started arguing with me about how herself as a women had a harder time and how she was oppressed by men in British society. But 2 things stuck out like a sore thumb for me with her as an individual, she went on to tell me she was from a private school in the shires down south and was studying History of Art at uni, she was also a very attractive women who probably wouldnt have dated me in a million years, despite the fact I am not a bad looking guy, I just happen to have grown up on an inner city council estate in Manchester, not far from Manchester University, and here was a woman at only 20 years old, that already had more status, cultural capital, economic capital and the ability to date pretty much any man in the City, and who most definitely had more access to what the city had to offer than a man, white, black or asian, that grew up in the council estates of Moss Side, Hulme, Ardwick and Gorton, which are within 2 miles of the University of Manchester, where many of these posh upper middle class women from private schools down south make their own. Are they sipping cappuccinos and eating avocado on toast with normal working class Mancunians, I dont think so! She was blind to the privilege she had over the vast majority of men, and other women for that matter.
I hope you told her all of what you've written down here. More to the point, did you point out to her how lives for women have changed over the past 100 years? 50 or 60 years ago women had virtually no independence, including financially. Now they've got so much they don't know they're born.
It's Greedyness that makes us al forget how privileged we are no matter what level of society we are in. There is always someone less fortunate than yourself! I am also guilty at times and to know your history and roots your I,me and myself gets to equal levels without victimhood & irritating everyone around u
When I mention WOKE culture or trans rights to my friends who don’t spend as much time as I do on Clip-Share, they laugh and say “what are you on about. It’s a “thing” only on social media. I remember Kier Starmer getting flustered having being asked “what is a woman”. He knows perfectly well what a woman is, he’s married to one but he couldn’t explain it in words for fear of “offending” the woke movement. How crazy is that?
OK, please define what a woman is. Don't just say "a female person". That's a synonym, not a definition.
@Guy Willetts A woman is an adult human being that was born with female genitalia, hermaphrodites excepted, as they are a special case.
@The werewolf of Norway so does that include Phillipa York (google her)?
THAT WAS A VERY GOOD, FAIR & BALANCED SPEECH
I am so delighted that this popped up in my feed... I have been trying to find the words to express what has happened in Australia and New Zealand this weekend...
Great speech Toby!
Really well said and encouraging thankyou
He's absolutely right. I was far more favorable to trans rights and other woke items years ago. Their sole reliance on violence, hate, and cancelling turns my stomach so much, I'm actively seeking to counter everything they believe in.
Political ideologies have no brakes. They always go too far.
its a function of a certain cadre type that follows thru history, a type ever watching for new ideologies providing the springboard for acquisition and wielding of power.
I’m keeping that! Superb!
@Das KritterHaus that's very well put.
Yes, the UK Tories and their 40 years of neo-liberalism along with their current Brexit obsession are proof of that. UK economic growth over the last few years has been abysmal.
Great Speech speaking the truth. I enjoyed it rather a lot
I have developed a whole new level of respect for the Brits and their parliaments. I love that statement freedom is not freedom from consequence, that should be added to our constitution,
"What has woke culture given us? Meghan Markle's podcast." 😂😂😂
Jeremy Clarkson said nothing wrong.
The Duchess of Netflix 😅
It seems to me that most people are fed up with being shamed constantly for not stepping in line
I used to support the so-called oppressed but when they gain acceptance and equality they don't seem to appreciate it and decide to become the oppressors. They no longer have my support or sympathy, I loath those that took this attitude.
6:55 I think Toby gets to the root of the problem of wokeness and sjw 'culture' here. I see these people as people pursuing progressive ends, but not by progressive means and the latter is what I find objectionable. It's one thing to hold certain views, but how we engage with the rest of society is crucial, especially those we don't immediately see eye to eye with, which is where a lot of people fall short of making meaningful change.
That's a somewhat long-winded if not inaccurate definition of a hypocrite lol
@Harry Ricochet yes indeed.
What a brilliant speaker. I haven't hear anyone that can polically dissect truth like he can.
As an American, the reactions of Toby Young's descriptions of Northern Ireland's controversies was hilarious.
As a Northern Irishmen, he was spot on.
So there currently number more colonisers in the colonised territory than natives... a true point, but not one which refutes the assertation that Britain remains a colonising state.
@Niamh Hopkins Doesn't it support that claim? I forgot the context.
The woman that spoke up, while making an argument many agree with, also represents exactly what Toby is stating.
LOVE THIS! Thank you for posting!
Common sense and truth from Toby. Wokism is all about feelings, not facts, fantasy replaces reality and has led to a bunch of deranged followers who have and are still doing much harm to decent individuals who just happen to not go along with the Woke delusion.
The only person I can think of, who could have made this point so successfully is, Douglas Murray.
Would've been unfair to put Douglas against these kids!
And Christopher Hitchens
Douglas Murray and Andrew Doyle would've annihilated these college kids.
Bravo!!!! what an amazing speech...
Well done Toby!
It’s nice to hear sensible people talking. Woke is crazy.
when destroying a life and career is more valued than discussion you are not on the right side
shaming insults and digital witch hunts will turn people against you and force them to step away so as not to be attacked the next time you want to be offended
Way to go! Finally an intelligent defense of common sense and the right to free speech😀
The woke way of doing things makes it impossible to take them seriously. We love little children, but we don't let them run the world.
There's Trudeau running Canada.
And what exactly do you mean by 'their way of doing things'? Is it possible that you could provide an example?
@Debrah McCabe Probably the inability to debate in a respectful manner. And in some cases the refusal to stop bullying people. Because esentially that is what cancel culture is. Bullying and destructive behaviour inflicted on another human. Which is reprehensible and disgusting.
Very happy to have come across this, certainly made me think, I’ve left enlightened.
The fact that this is even debated in Oxford Union is unbelievable to me.
My father used to say: In whetever you do, there is a point where things only get worse.
Glad more people are standing up.
The Fiona Bruce Question Time debacle last week is a damning indictment of just how ridiculous this has become. During a discussion about Stanley Johnson, a panellist referred to him as a "wife beater". Fiona was made to read out a clarification of the circumstances of the incident for legal reasons. Not her own words, not her own views, and something she was made to read out for legal reasons. Yet, she was immediately accused of being an apologist for domestic violence, of trivialising and excusing it and, of course, being offensive to its victims.
Despite these not even being her own words, she was publicly condemned, forced to make a public apology, and ended up having to step down as patron of the Refuge charity.
Anyone who suggests we still have freedom of expression and freedom of speech in the UK in 2023 is simply not paying attention.
Couldn’t agree more. I’m liberal and have always voted left. However, this new brand of far-left “activism” seeks liberal ends by abandoning liberal means, but unfortunately we live in the means. We live in the tension, the figuring out, and it is within that environment that the principles of HOW we conduct ourselves define where we stand in the eyes of history.
What far left activism? You folks who discuss this seem to deal in generalities. Is this so that you can never be held to a statement you've made?
Your “liberal means” comment is very well said. As a libertarian-conservative, I sincerely ask you to ponder your point with respect to nationalized health care, gay marriage, etc. I support the ends, but not the means.
The schools have been outdated for too long. I’ve had teachers downgrade me for being white, and what’s crazy is that most of them were white as well. Trying to make kids feel guilty, and responsible for things that they barely understand. Bad actors take advantage of these types of issues, which leads to what we are seeing today. School should be teaching and enforcing accountability along with many other values. Public schools are useless, and create problems instead of preparing students for life . Terrorists are taking advantage of this, poisoning our youth, along with the media. I see now why other countries don’t allow certain things to happen. While mental warfare is encouraged. Now you can start to see why things were the way they were in history. Try to remember that this is evolution at the end of the day. It’s disgusting and scary but I believe something good is coming and we’ll start learning again instead of falling into sin.
I wish all sides would remember that the hijacked word "argument" does not mean shouting and throwing punches at each other. Reasoned discourse should be our aim, we have far more in common than that which separates us.
Excellent speech, what a talker!
Well done Toby.
Brilliant as usual from Toby
Real intelligence at work from Toby Young ! 👍
Were there two Toby Youngs speaking? I must have missed the intelligent one.
@Terry Robertson Try listening with an open mind
My issue with the WOKE is they haven’t moved on and the rest of us have, I mean the intelligent part of the community has moved on!
Well said. I agree with you and well done for saying it.
Power demands respect. Humility elicits sympathy.