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I HATED FRFR until I learned this
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- Published on Mar 29, 2023 veröffentlicht
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An Audio Professor once told me, "All speakers suck- it's just to what extent." At the time, I had no idea what he meant, but after years of guitar playing, tone hunting, audio snobbery, and a healthy amount of gear acquisition syndrome I also found that to be true. And there is no other type of speaker that is more divisive in the guitar community than the FRFR. As a person that used to be on the side of hating FRFR and direct tones, I share my experience and knowledge gained as I learned how to use FRFR to great effect and get one step closer to tonal bliss.
#MathewDale #Fractal #AxeFX3 #FM9 #FM3 #Guitar #Tone
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As a guitarplayer for more than 40 years i came to digital domain in early 90ties. You explain the topic very well and i`m happy to connect some loose ends and missing links in my live setup. Thanks :)
10 years ago I bought a used PodXT. Sounded great to me through a set of cheap studio monitors. 5 years ago I picked up a 500HDX and a pair of mint Behringer B3031A's and the difference was astounding. I only play and record as a hobbyist in my apartment, so tbh I've never really got to use them to potential or see the tonal difference at volume. Amazing monitors for the $300 I paid for the pair. Would love an AxeFx but can't justify the $.
That’s an awesome tone. Your playing is frantic!
Mathew, great job of explaining the mechanics behind the sounds.
I have been playing through the first modeling amp ever made directly through FOH systems for years. At one time I was fortunate enough to play through some of the best tube amps ever made ('60s era Vox AC-30, Fender Bassman, 70's era Marshall, Mesa Lonestar, 60's era Twin Reverb, etc.) and I know what good tone is (yes, I'm old). These sounds are very achievable using digital technology though most purists will disagree. Funny thing is that most of those "purists" haven't played nearly as many gigs through all kinds of equipment the way that I have. Most have been sold on a lot of opinions that are not backed up by facts - just opinions. I'll go on stage up against any rig and I'm guaranteed to hang or probably sound better. A stereo chorus or roto-vibe effect through a stereo FOH system has so much more depth. All you purists can keep your overpriced, always-breaking-down, heavier-than-f_ck equipment. If you are a performing musician, you know that getting your sound out to the audience doesn't always (rarely actually) mean you'll get a great tactile response on stage. So, dragging around a heavy amplifier simply makes no sense. But it looks cool - I'll give you that.
Well said!! 👏 👍
The tube amp in an isolation room or iso box I thought was an interesting trend- especially since load boxes with D.I. as well as digital was also readily available. You quickly loose that “tube amp” feel when you are not near the amp and going “silent stage.” Making the switch to digital makes that kind of stuff much easier and better sounding in my opinion. Thanks for watching and commenting!
You have a great ability to convey this information without being needlessly complicated. I wish I would have found your channel a year ago when I took the plunge into modeling with the FM3. I’ve learned much of this through trial and error which is a much longer and sometimes hair pulling process.😁 Having said that I still get a lot from watching due to the aforementioned teaching skill you have. Thank You!!👍
Thanks so much! I appreciate the kind words!
I really like the IR's in the Axe FX as there is sooo much opportunity to fine-tune the cabs with all the parameters, unlike with a real cab!
Nice video & info🙂
When I use the Axe Fx 3 to record, I always use Adams monitors. I usually added a filter block after the cab to do the same similar blocking as you did with the Parametric. Definitely going to try that. For the amp in the room, I use my EVH 5150 iii…it is a different experience for sure. I have also turned off the cab/power amp modeling & used the AxeFx through the return of the EvH, & that is pretty awesome!!! Great video
Great video. I have an AXE FX III AND I also have a McCarty 594 (Two of them actually, an SC and a Hollowbody II, AND a real Fender Twin. Haha. Also I usually run thru studio monitors. I am paying attention to this, because I've got the same gear as you, and love the tone you're getting.
Thanks for watching! We sound like kindred spirits!
Dialing in your tone at intended volume use is very important. I play my Helix at home only, playing at lower volumes. My patches are dialed in for that volume level. I notice that when I play those patches loud I have to redo my settings. On my cabs I put a high cut at 6-7k and 100 at the low end. I get a great guitar tone and feel that way. A modeller isn’t going to sound quite the same as a live amp and it’s not intended to. I’m quite happy with my Helix and my frfr speakers but it took me some time to get there.
And understanding eq the range of frequencies and how to do it right for personal preference- its universal. Frequencies are always gonna be the same, the source and output colour the tone as well and the process of tweaking eq first, to suit the situation, setup etc, done first, that is a breakthrough for me, mind blown bro! Feeling that! Awesome 👌
Very interesting stuff, thanks for doing the homework on this, a lot! Of time and effort on your part- top bloke 👍
It's cleared my head on eq a bit more, realising the definition of full range of frequencies and what I don't need when dialling in a patch for a digital modeler with use on a speaker cab- it's been the bain of my existence for a while now, but now im feeling refreshed, re educated and ready to get back to it! Keep up the good work, you're making a difference, that matters A LOT!! ❤️
Thanks so much!
That was excellent! I love the detail you go into when explaining things. Thank you for posting this. You made a new subscriber out of me.
Glad to have you and thanks so much!
Nice and precise explanations and a very clear understanding now than before, I instantly subscribed after the first 5 minutes of watching this video. I use the Strymon Iridium but all the points about the speaker types etc. Where an eye opener. Great channel.
Thanks for watching and I'm glad you enjoyed and got something out of it!
Great job, Matthew! I look forward to checking out the rest of your content and following your channel.
Awesome, thank you!
good info. I recently took my fm3 and Friedman frfr to a rehearsal and immediately my sound was almost lost in the mix. the little fender practice amps others had sounded better! I'm still trying to find the balance of tones to work in the studio, rehearsal with a frfr cab, and live on stage; straight into front of house mix board.
Thanks for watching! In addition to what I discussed in the video, remember that tones that sound the best when playing by yourself rarely sound good in a mix. The magic is in the midrange and scooping too much out will leave you lost (not saying you are doing this, but just as a general principle). You could also apply a global EQ with a boost around 1K for added presence in a mix throughout all your presets.
100% ! Great point. When you fine tune things to a flat source it is SO easy for a sound guy to dial it in on any PA they might be using. Also, I found the best thing to do (if possible) is to setup my rigs/sounds on the sound system / PA I will be playing on. If you can do that you can 100% dial it in and get exactly what you are looking for out front / what you want the audience to hear. I've been lucky to be able to play in most bands where our sound guy is basically part of the band or at worst we use the same company for every gig. I've done this since owning my Digitech GSP21 Pro (back in the day) to now my Quad Cortex. Also I use an RCF NX 12 monitor (can't recommend this thing enough) for my Quad Cortex for both monitoring on stage (bring it to all shows) and practice and my settings for that translate well with any PA I might be playing through. Loved the info in this video!
Thanks so much for watching and for your comment!
lots of good info and useful content here. thanks for sharing Matt
I saw a similar video with a helix user. I however am using the ancient line 6 hd500x with its stock cabs. The amp eq, parametric , and room reverb tips make ALL the difference for me . Taming that low end and also using your ears instead of your eyes will put your tone in a better place for you, your band, and your sound guy. Great video.
I agree if it sounds good and close what your going for cool you know ears differently big part I have headrush gigboard and I'm going get couple headrush frfr 8ich ones I love stereo sound
Thanks for watching! Those older line 6 units still sound great!
Hi Mathew. Thanks. Lots learned--and to learned--here. Subscribed. Eager to review your posts for your rig rundown and studio tour--if archived. Otherwise, please post each. Us tone chasers will benefit from your experience. Carry on please!
Thank you! That video is coming soon!
Thank you, love the technical details. Just bought a used FM9, sadly my electric is getting a set up I should get it back 2maro. I’m currently playing my Taylor 810ce in a factory preset blackface “normal” clean and it sounds great. I’m using a pair of headrush frfr 108’s. Really happy so far, I’m sure that assessment will go up when I get my electric back for a real test.
The headrush 108 need their frequency curve being flatened, they (and other speakers too) are far from flat.
Sorry, I’m on preset #4 “normal”
Great vid! Thank you so much!
I can't help but see the writing on the wall and assume that eventually old-school tube amps will slowly disappear.
I recently switched to the Boss GX100 modeler, from a heavy tube amp, and I couldn't be happier.
My back is a lot happier, too.
Now, when I visit my band buddy in Seattle, or we fly out to do a gig, I just pack my GX100 into carry-on and check in my guitar.
That's it! 🤟
I plug my GX into the FOH and in-ears. Abodda boom, abodda bing. Ready to rock! Sounds great!
I have an old-school friend. He's been playing for over 30 years. He detests modelers and says he will never give up his tube amp. He lugs that heavy ass thing around.
I say "Have fun with that, buddy!".
Thanks for watching! The convenience factor is huge for modelers!
Hello Mathew. I saw you adjust the lows and highs inside ´´Cab/Preamp´´ section instead of ´´Cab´´ (which you can also do it). Is there any reason for that choice? Any difference beetwen them? I saw that another guy Fractal guy (Marco Fanton) does a similar approach.
@Mathew Dale Thank you
They both do the same thing, however the "preamp" page will affect the entire block overall. If you use the individual cuts on the "cab" page you'll need to adjust it for every IR.
Very nice old wooden machinist toolbox behind you. I had one back in the sixties very much like that one. I'm guessing yours was your dads or more likely your grandfather's.:) Great video much needed for modeler users.
Antique shop actually, but I love it. Great for pedals, cables, guitar parts, strings and other random guitar stuff! Thanks for watching.
so, i set up the ir's to have a low cut from 150Hz and high cut at 7KHz so as to get them to sound real. or a global eq with same cuts, this would apply to all Ir's if you change ir's. As far as FRFR's go, they are a pre-tuned speaker to sound as flat as possible, however, you get frequencies that stand out strong on certain every different stage/room. hence an eq still is worth considering to fix room sound.
@Mathew Dale me too.
That's kinda why I like using a PEQ after the cab- I do the heavy cuts on the lows and highs then leave the other bands to edit for the room. I'm typically a "one preset per gig" type player, but if you use multiple presets on a gig then the global makes a lot of sense.
One of the best videos I have seen on configuring settings for FRFR. Many thanks for publishing.
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed!
Will try cutting like this today. I always feel fm3 is too bright. Recently tried hotone ampero II stomp and it’s is really warm sounding. Bet it must had high cut baked in.
@Mathew Dale I have to say this is the single most important thing I should have learned for Fractal modeller. Wish I know this sooner. Always had ear fatigue very quickly with FM3. Now I am content.
Yep, too many highs can really make things sound shrill. I usually cut to 5k at 24db/oct for live when touring. Still get a bell-like fender amp sound when doing this too.
Hey, I'm a little bit confused. If IRs are captures from guitar speaker cabinets and those cabinets don't really express frequencies outside of the 80Hz to 5000Hz ranges, why do we need to EQ out frequencies beyond those when playing through FRFRs?
@Mathew Dale Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I’ve subscribed and looking forward to hearing more from you.
Good question. Let me re-phrase to say that guitar cabs are *inefficient* at reproducing 20-80hz and 5k and up rather than saying that info isn’t there. Typically, IRs are shot with no eq on the mic channel and recording or playing a live show with an amp and live cab would still require a decent amount of eq on the board to get the mic-ed cab sounding nice (shelving the lows and highs to get the guitar sitting better in the mix). So when I’m filtering and eq-ing the tone from the amp and IR, I’m thinking like a guitar player as well as a sound engineer so when I’m sending a direct signal, my tone needs little more than just bringing up the faders. So in essence, you don’t *need* to, but it’s good practice.
I've only gigged with my Helix/PowerCab a few times, but it never sounds as good as it does in my studio. This weekend, I had dialed in some great tones but live everything was a boxy and mid-rangey. I think I need to dial them in using the PowerCab instead of my studio monitors.
I use Gig Performer as rack program and put in the global rackspace an EQ that I can switch from "headphones" to "Headrush 108" which I use live. The headrush curve isn't flat at all (there is a thread in the axe forum about flattening the headrush curve).
Thing is, I use the PowerCab as a monitor and go XLR to FOH. So unless I mic it, I'm guessing there will always be that difference. I guess that's what the Global EQ on the Helix is for: tweaking to the room/PA.
That's a good point. I bounce back and forth between my QSC PA speakers and my studio monitors when dialing in, with a bias towards the QSCs for live tones. All speakers, even FRFRs are going to be a bit different, so dialing in using the stuff you would use live is important.
I have a line 6 Powercab whenever I use it I always run 75 Hz to 5000 Hz but like you said if you don’t play loud enough it’s gonna sound boxy and dull
Ive got a request could you do a video on how to match an existing tube amp into axe 3 or record stem tracks take dry tracks
and load those into axe 3 also to better match the amp in question ?
Ive got some tube amps which are in peak of sound which id like to record as is now dry.
then tone match them into axe 3.
I also have some amps I designed and voiced inside axe 2 which didnt exist before and would very much
like to take those amps just as they are now and record them into axe 3 matching them as they are .
Since I cant just transfer axe 2 over to 3 this takes a bit of time and then writing out all the efx speakers cabs ect
thats a bit to do..
So im thinking perhaps just record one into the other say axe 2 into 3 and getting that dry amp and
matching it inside 3 ..
then going into axe 2 library and screen capping every efx and amp and cab setting every patch and scene
and printing that for a book to have it backed up not only on computer but hard copies on paper
im thinking if that was kept fairly reasonable per screen cap then those can be cut pasted to standard page
and scanned together and double sided and lamintated would be nice.
For both axe 2 and 3 it would pricey but worth it for 3 ring binders to flip through and be able to reference
I started doing every tune and artist and trying to add the artists name and tune in the patch name
this took months but after 3 months I went in and peeked at the library id been saving as each time and it stunned me
to see every song I loved by artist in order alphabetically .
I thought wow there is me in a nutshell musically every favorite artist or sound or efx or speaker or cab is right there to delve into.
I found this most helpful when building up other patches as I could just snatch from the library which efx or cab or speakers and mics I wanted ..
much easier to just think what amp will I want or combination of amps and which cabs sound good together with those
have to pair them up same time to know by hearing if its good or not cherry picking but thats what I call fun.
soon you just have a big bowl of cherries to eat and if your writing down every combination and checking good or bad next too it
then you could know which amps or cabs do not blend well and which do.
But it sure would be great to be able to setup axe 2 and record from 2 into 3 and match just as things are
then transfer the data manually to build the library up in 3 also
seemingly thats the only way and if I had it all screen capped and printed in a book
it would be alot easier to move into 3 correctly.
why cant one record from two dry into 3 and Tone Match into the same style amp available in 3 ?
or record axe 2 into h4n zoom lets say and play it back through axe 3 and match that as a stem track ?
is that possible and if so can you do a demo on those points ?
showing how to match another axe 2 into axe 3 if even recording dry stem track and feeding that over
vs recording a tube amp into axe 3 and getting that IR done correctly ?
Im in a position to play loud at nights where im at and could record all my tube amps
this way into axe 3 during the night none the wiser...
Ultra Phonic Dumble 50 watt amp
ODSR #183/#0060 overdrive reverb made 1:1 parts value wise to both those Dumbles combined
using 183 for the growl and 0060 for the last improvements Dumble did to the circuit.
150 watt SSS type head through 4x12 semi open back cab with EV 12 LS
The cab was specced from an original Dumble 4 12 and the 2x12 also from Kerry Wright design.
So those are not in the axe fx 2 or 3.
the objective is to record each amp as it is dry
then save as and match inside axe 3
then do the same for the cabs and speakers and tubes
making note of which tubes are used 6l6 el34 6550 or kt88
which cab and which mic's
I would like to mic the cabs at angle and on center
both and mic behind the cab for ambient room sound
so im wanting to mic in front and behind cabs room mic vs close mic.
The SSS Dumble is not in axe fx nor the ultra phonic
I did compare the ultra to Dweezils pissed off bassman and its a different amp
think two channel Dumble both clean and lead vs just pissed off lead.
the clean side takes all pedals beautifully and you can get other lead sounds there od pedal or fuzz ect
so brighter side of the lead or dirty rhythm sound and sparkling cleans.
I would very much like to know how to utilize those functions in axe 3.
by recording the original amps and cabs and efx into axe 3.
Hello!I bought a Headrush frfr and is really good!I play with a Mooer radar and my Pod Hd bean desktop…much better!Thank you!👍🙏
I'm 52 so I instantly cut down to 10k because anything above that I cant hear anyway. If it was spikey above that I wouldn't know but others would. Thanks Mathew great content.
Thanks for watching! Experiment with even going down further to 5 or 6K I used to cut to 10k thinking that would be plenty before hearing some harsh high end content at live volumes. 5-6K seems to be the sweet spot for me. Cheers!
Hey Matthew. Great video with awesome information. However I have a question that are troubling me because I can't wrap my head around them LOL!
In your preset, in the cab block, you cut bass by 80hz and highs by 8000hz. Then you added a PEQ and cut bass by another 100hz and highs by another 6500hz. Haven't you then theoretically cut the bottom and top end out of your sound twice??
Why can't we simply cut the bottoms in the cab block by 200 for example and the highs around 5000 and not need a PEQ? Or leave the cab block at 20hz and 20,000hz and just use the PEQ? I guess my question is, why the double cut? Please explain as I'm not understanding it. I tried this PEQ in my preset with the cab lo and hi cut as you explained in the video and used your PEQ and it does take away those troublesome frequencies, but what I found was that the sound was somewhat flat - like I took too much of the 'meat of the sound' out. When I bypassed the PEQ, the sound came alive. I'm just trying to make sense sonically why we would double cut the same frequencies, as I love learning new AX8 tips!
I understand if your guitar or preset is producing an unwanted frequency (say 400hz for example), then you would use a PEQ to 'shape' or dial that frequency out of your sound. Please help me understand. Thanks for your videos - and thanks for the great job of continually providing free information!
@Claudio Malagoli Glad that helped! thank you for the kind words!
@Mathew Dale firstly Matthew - thx for replying. Not many youtubers do! I do appreciiate that. Secondly, thanks for the detailed answer. That makes sense now and you've helped me understand greatly. I'll def be doing this at high volume. Great channel and great player and bloke! 🙂
Hi Claudio. Thanks for watching and for this great question! Remember there’s more than one way to skin a cat and these are just separate methods with the same intent of wrangling in an IR and providing a better experience for FRFR use. A couple of things though… volume matters. So if you were listening at moderate volumes and it sounded “flat” that’s actually a good thing! As volume increases to gig levels (and I mean rock show levels for a theater of a few thousand people) the base and treble will increase. Now, I like to use the cab filters to dial in the IR first with less lows and highs for home use. And it feels better at home. But then I’m much more aggressive with the PEQ for loud live use. If I’m just using the cab block, I’ll set the filters to 24 db/oct and go up to 100hz and down to 5500hz usually. Also if I know I’ll be using my speakers, I’ll do surgical cuts, like you mentioned, in the PEQ. But as that’s going to particular to my speakers, it would be hard for me to dial that in for other speakers. All in all your exact mileage will vary for your exact use, all speakers, FRFR included, will sound different, leave room for the bass, and most importantly use your ears rather than the exact values. Hope this helps clarify things and thanks again for watching and commenting!
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!
Thanks for watching!
This took me the longest time to figure out…I would plug in my modeler,into studio monitors,and would be immediately disappointed..it’s a very different sound than a Marshall and 4x12 blasting away at your knee caps..Then I started thinking about it,every guitar tone we have ever heard,was and is filtered thru a microphone and listened to on some kind of full range speaker system,whether it’s your favorite CD,or your favorite band live…..Van Halen 1 guitar tones are NOT an amp in the room sound….it’s an amp in another room,mic’ed up and played back thru Full range speakers….When I stopped comparing the two,I was much happier….That said,sometimes I do run my AxeFXIII into a power amp and guitar cab..it’s a different experience altogether….Great video though…I already use a lot of these tips for getting the best out of my FRFR system,but I learned a few more!!..
Who fucking cares. People that like the visceral amp in the room experience don’t want to compromise on that. Why should they have to let go of what they love?
@Mathew Dale Yeah, we guitarists all know that the sound we hear when we play affects HOW we play. The cool think about hearing what the audience hears is that the way we play will be the way we want the audience to hear it!
A great point as well! I also want to monitor as close to what my audience will hear.
Great point! It's really about knowing the application and understanding the ways to achieve the desired results. There's certainly a time and place for FRFR as well as a power amp and 4x12!
You are so right! So many guitarists are obsessed with having that "amp in the room sound", yet fail to realize that the guitars he's hearing on recordings, or live, through a P.A., sounds quite different. The question is, can a guitar still sound great in either of those situations? Of course! That's why people buy recorded music or attend concerts and still love the sound of those guitars. My reasoning is, even if a guitarist still wants that "amp in the room" sound while playing live, that's fine. But he should remember that the audience is not going to hear what HE hears. Personally, I want to hear on stage, as closely as possible, what the audience hears. So yep, the FRFRs are going to go a long way in giving me that.
One thing I never understood is if the guitar speaker only ranges 100-5000k, why would a mic’d up
Cabinet or even an IR made with a mic produce any frequencies outside that range? The frequencies aren’t even there for a mic to pick up both in modeling and live miking.
I’ve wondered that as well and I’m not sure why either. Just something that happens when going full range I guess…
I got a Headrush MX5. I love it. Right now I run it into a mixer with my TV and out though my home theater but I think studio monitors would be better. What do you think? Will I get a better sound? Does a home theater stereo not allow certain frequencies to come through? Keep in mind my home theater is JBL with a subwoofer but it’s from the 90s.
@Mathew Dale Thank you. That does help. I was suspecting a loss in certain tones when using different effects like phaser and different filter effects. I guess a good comparison would be headphones to see if I hear a difference. If not I’ll save the money. Who am I kidding. I’ll probably buy another guitar 😀
I don't know if "better" would be the result, but studio monitors would be a more "accurate" representation of the tones you are creating in the Headrush. Generally, home theater systems want to make everything sound the best they can so a bit of EQ and compression might be involved in the head unit- typically a bit more lows and highs for that Hi-Fi theater experience. If you are primarily a home player and it works for jamming with songs or tracks and you love the sound I'd say you're good and save your money, but if you are playing out you might find that your tones are quite a bit different going through a PA than what you dialed in at home and a lot of adjustment may be needed. Studio monitors (especially good ones) just try to give an honest representation of what being fed to them. I've heard some absolute garbage come out of my monitors because it's bad audio- but it may sound okay through a home entertainment system. Just two different purposes- sound the best or sound the most accurate. Hope this helps!
I love frfr. My guitar sounds the same wherever I stand in the room
New FM3 user here. Been browsing a ton of videos but still not getting the answer I’m looking for. May have missed it here.
A power cab will deliver the more traditional feel of playing with an amp while the FRFR will deliver a better listening experience for the listener/studio/engineer right? Im trying to figure out what to get to have more fun and feel at home off phones.
So, the Powercab can actually function both ways (allegedly). You can set it to be FRFR and use IRs from a modeler, or you can set it to emulate a certain speaker- this is different from an IR as there is no mic capture- So you get a more "Amp-in-the-room' feel. If you are usually playing at home, I'd go with the Powercab.
I play at home through Sennheiser headphones, even though I do have a CLR Neo FRFR, I kinda prefer the headphones and it’s better for the family/neighbours. I like and am used the high fidelity sound through the headphones, but when I play the Axe FX 3 at church it always sounds too bright/complex. I do have low/high cuts in, but maybe not enough high cut. Would it be better (and achieve the same result) just to enable the Global EQ on output 1 with more aggressive cuts when going to FOH?
Thanks Mathew, will give it a try. Appreciate your greatly helpful videos. Hi from Australia! 🇦🇺
Definitely worth a try! Start with the 16K and 8K sliders and work the 4K to taste but that one may have more of an effect of your core tone.
Could you tell me if the headrush will let my piezo from my majesty guitar actually sound like an acoustic? I got rid of my guitar amp cause I was told it’s mid range and it chokes off any high sounds made from acoustic? Thank you so much Mat
Quick question: headrush pedal board or headrush FRFR? Either way the answer is still yes (with an asterisk). A guitar amp and cab have a pretty limited frequency response (which is what we want for electric). The headrush pedalboard can process a signal from a piezo like you would an acoustic (adding eq and compression like on a mixer). The FRFR can reproduce the fuller spectrum you’d want to amplify an acoustic guitar. Bonus tone points: use an acoustic guitar IR to help the piezo on a solid body sound closer to a full bodied acoustic guitar.
As a bass player that just aquired a 7 string custom fretless tuned F#BEADGC, I'm left in the dark trying to find a bass cabinet that can handle 23.12hz. I'm so frustrated, don't know what to do.
Get your self a sub-woofer, as a bass cab wont go as low as 23hz. You will have to use it in conjunction with your regular bass cab. I would think a 15 inch sub would do the job.
I bought into the "convenience" thing but rather be inconvenienced with the feel of a real tube amp.
I hear ya there. Really depends on the situation for me. After so many gigs where a "silent" cab-less stage is required and going in-ears, dialing in for an FRFR system was something I had to learn. More about getting the best tone no-matter what, rather than not doing the gig at all. Just another skill to add to the list.
Newbie here. What is the difference between FRFR active and FRFR passive? I am talking about models ELIS 8 from the fractal site
@Mathew Dale thanks a lot :) that makes sense!
So the active speaker has a power amp built in, the passive speaker requires a separate power amp. In the case of the ELIS speakers, the passive speaker is meant to be powered by the active one to create a stereo set up. If you are buying one, get the active speaker to keep things simple, then you can expand with the passive if you want stereo.
Thank you Mathew I got it figured out thank you
I've been playing my Kemper through some Dynaudio studio monitors for years, and just picked up the Headrush FRFR-108 and hate it. The headrush sounds so muffled. I will pick up my tele and put it on a clean channel, and it sounds like a blanket is over the speaker. I find myself having to drop the mids, blast the treble, and bass varies. Is there a solution for this? It's unreal how bad this sounds compared to the monitors I have been using.
Mine won't crank. Fractal ax8 and 2 headrush speakers at 2000 watts. And it doesn't get real loud. Kinda sucks.
Keep in mind that all speakers are different, or to put it another way, all speakers suck- it's just to what extent. Your monitors are going to be much nicer than the headrush, so for studio use and listening to a mix, that's one thing. If you want to use the headrush live, then making your own presets to accommodate your live speaker situation is a better way to go than dialing in on monitors and hoping for the best when using a PA speaker. Also, don't keep the 108 near a wall and tilted up on the floor- that begs for low-end build up. Could also try messing with the contour switch on the back of the 108.
Okay folks, I need some help: I'm proud owner of an ISP theta pro DSP floor unit absolutely love the tones that are on it. I've used it through headphones (& it sounds awesome), I've used it through cheap computer powere speakers (still sounds awesome) & even through my PreSonus recording software interface (sounds awesome their as well). However... I recently purchased the headrush FRFR 108, tried my ISP unit into it and.... It sounded like tinfoil being lit on fire 😫😱🤯😥 Needless to say I was not happy with that, thus I got the turbo sound ix15 which is a 15 inch powered loudspeaker (always had an affinity for 15-in speakers) and it still sounds horrible. I'm up for any suggestions and yes if you're wondering, I do have speaker emulation on (a 4x12 greenback) via the unit. Any and all recommendations are appreciated. If I'm doing something wrong or if I'm not doing something correctly, feel free to let me know.
I’ll never understand this confusion because the laws of physics don’t care what you’re playing through-the sound can and WILL still change depending on VOLUME, size of room, and distance between sound and ear, period! Doesn’t matter if is an FRFR speaker or a guitar cab or when monitoring a mic’d cab through a preamp, and some monitors then processed, mastered and played through a sound system; the sound cannot escape the laws of physics. It’s just a circle jerk between speaker and audio equipment manufacturers tell you that look, “this is what you need because it’s “flat” and everything can sound like anything…through THIS!”
It just comes down to functionality and practicality, meaning that if you’re throwing hundreds of different sounds at a sound system it only makes sense to have a “flat” starting point. Why guitarists want to have anything to do with this is beyond my realm of understanding lol, other that the whole “it translates better and is less directional” guff.
All good points, which is why I prefer to use PA type speakers (QSC k10s and k12s) as opposed to the more common and sought after FRFRs like the Friedmans and Atomic CLRs. Those are certainly awesome, but I want to dial in tones akin to what I'll be plugging in to.
Great video. Quick question, what pick in on your thumb? I am looking for this kind of solution. Thanks!
Thanks for watching! I use Fred Kelly Bumblebee Jazz picks. Here's a link...
fredkellypicks.com/product-category/bumble-bee
would the settings change for the FM9 in regards to your template start pack.
Nope! The ones for the Axe-FX III work great!
Mathew I'm trying to load irs to my l6 powercab and I'm using the right requirements for the irs and all and have no prob with adding them to. Helix but when try on p/c edit the irs won't open files to load , I've tried quite a few diff ir packs and im using wave files with correct requirements, it seems my p/c doesn't recognize the files as.loadable do you have any ideas thank you
Interesting. I don't have much experience with the PowerCab. Wish I could be of more help. Best of luck!
I have 2 head rush 108 frfr. Sounds great at low volume. At high volume they fart or clip. It forces me to bring the lows down on my zoom g6, the the sound off love is gone (to much high) if I buy bigger powered speakers will that fix it?
Possibly. Allegedly, the headrush 108s are 2000W peak which should be enough headroom for pretty loud playing. A couple things to try: Run the output volume on the Zoom lower and the 108 volume higher to see if that changes anything at the same loudness level you are wanting. If not, try swapping that around- lower 108, higher Zoom. If both are pretty maxed maybe try placement- sometimes low frequencies buildup near walls and corners. It would also be good to try out as many other speakers as you can- I've been hearing very good things about the QSC cp8, I love my k10s and k12s. Or, if you can, try the headrush 112 with all the same settings and see if the bigger speaker does the trick. Hope this helps!
Great job!
Thanks!
Great video!
Thanks for watching!
Why not just do the aggressive cuts in the Cab block itself?
@Mathew Dale Thanks.
Yep, totally could do that as well- just showing another way. I also usually have my favorite IR's saved in the Block Library with those settings pre-dialed in for quick set-ups. So separating the aggressive stuff on a PEQ gives me more flexibility if I want to dial in something for home/ quite use or for loud/live where the PEQ gives me additional control.
Yes!
Do u cut on the amp as well? I tend to match the cuts on amp an cab.
Not always. If I feel like an amp is too bassy even with the bass knob down I may do an input eq low end cut, and I'll use the output eq on Mesa models but that's about it.
Great channel! Subscriber earned.
Thanks a bunch!
so the answer was high cut and low cut? about 80-100hz low and 6500-8000 high
@Mathew Dale well I think an actual cab speaker only emits up to 5500? The rest I guess comes from the microphone voice and all the other business
I used to do the same in my GT1000, only cutting to 10K. Then getting more and more aggressive with that cut yielded better tones. I think 6500hz is a good starting point as well!
@Mathew Dale I’ve had an axe fx for about 6 years and just got an fm9. I was in a rush earlier so needed to know lol very recently I’ve been going down to 6500 and I’m getting really nice results. Before I was around 7500-8000 or even 10000 for cleans
Yeah realistically “live tones” should be around 100hz-5Khz but for home use or quieter playing cutting less is okay. Mindset is also important- knowing that FRFR won’t be the same as a live cab and that’s okay is part of it as well.
Just use the high and low cut in the cab block. save cpu.
Definitely can. Just showing another option in addition to the cab block. If I use PEQ, I often use other surgical cuts for live purposes and I can toggle the PEQ on or off for home/ live use.
I miss the early days, two or four Marshall (Boogie if you could afford it) full stacks! Digital sounds great, but it will never 'feel' great. Played in a two guitar band, me with my 73' 50 watt Marshall, the other guitarist with a Line Six Bogner 120 watt with a 4x12. I had to turn my cab to the wall, that poor Line Six was lost in the mix, it just couldn't push the air.
Speakers push air by definition. That's sound. Digital has nothing to do with it. Solid state (analog) vs. tube (also analog) amplification aren't apples-to-apples based on output wattage. That has nothing to do with the preamp being digital or analog. Preamps don't have jack for output.
@James Powell No worries, James, I didn't sense any disrespect from you at all. We're all just exchanging ideas in a friendly way here. I know what you mean about hauling around heavy equipment, too, because at the age of 65, I don't have the same motivation to do that as I used to.
No question that the sound of tube saturation is very unique and amazing. Speaking only for myself, I have found that I like the modeling sounds as much as I like the sounds of the tube amps. Different, sure, but still equally as enjoyable to me. After decades of playing with conventional amps and cabs, I've now switched to digital for a number of reasons. But what works for one person is not necessarily what works for another.
@Mathew Dale Yes! Some people actually prefer the sound of digital over tubes. Two advantages right off the bat regarding the digital (modeling) are the versatility and space-saving. And you're right, application matters.
I also like your earlier comment about the amps & cabs of the old days. In the 60s and about the first half of the 70s, P.A.s were still somewhat archaic and used primarily for vocals. I remember many years ago Clapton saying that he and the rest of Cream were using "giant amplifiers" so they could be heard in the back of the room. This practice by bands in those days, of course, resulted in extremely loud stage volume, and for many, a degree of hearing loss.
These days, P.A.s have gotten so good that the band members mic their equipment through them, which means they can keep the stage volume down and allow the sound engineer to control the volume and achieve a great mix. And the cool thing about modelers is we can get the same great tones at very low volumes as we can at higher volumes!
@Steve Drake I meant no disrepect. As I get older I don't mind not having to drag a half stack around. one caveat, the experience of standing before a 100 watt full Marshall stack on 10 (with hearing protection) Is amazing! (once)! :)
Guthrie is amazing and definitely one of my faves! The whole digital vs analog thing really hit home for me a few years ago when I was playing a church gig week after week with my all tube Fender combo and a pedalboard full of boutique pedals- custom buffer, custom tru-bypass looper, Keeley, Strymon, Xotic, JHS, the whole 9. I bought a Boss GT-1000 for a "direct" solution (my first toe in the modeling pond). Used it the next weekend and my friend and band mate (in the congregation that day) told me it was the best tone he heard from me yet. Not saying one is better than the other, but proper application matters.
Calling it a phenomenon is a stretch there John Travolta. I say it’s how most of us came to love playing the guitar. I never expected to have to live the sound of a mic’d cab. There’s an organic connection you have with an analog amp. Why are we being told to discard that appreciation left and right? Modelers-even the axe 3-don’t do it no matter how good they’re sounding. They don’t seem to know how to talk to a 4x12 yet the way a tube amp does. It’s like 80-90% there.
Fricken AWESOME Video!!!! Thanks sooo much!!
Glad you liked it!
Some of us, guitar players, are really dumb. Why would anyone with an ounce of intelligence buy a modeller and then run it via a guitar amp and a guitar cabinet. It's like buying a vintage tube amp and then use a crapload of tools to remove the deficiencies of a vintage tube amp.... OK, I'll show myself out.
Is it different than plug into a studio monitor??? Im in a market for frfr speakers
Really depends on the studio monitor you are plugged into. I use Presonus Eris e5s as monitors and QSC k10 and k12s and my 5 inch monitors have quite a bit less bass to them- so I usually go back and for the when dialing in tones to make sure the bass is sitting right.
House PAs are rarely flat EQ.
True, often corrective EQs are in place on the mains to compensate for room sound and anomalies, but the EQ is usually attempting to "flatten" the room response so the instruments on stage are represented honestly. And not all FRFR speakers have the same freq. response curve, and they can all sound a bit different. The idea is to have something close to "standard" to give all parties involved a great starting place for dialing in.
thanx for that!
Most of the tone comes from the speaker, anyone else saying anything else is full of shit. All that is not from the speaker is to a variable degree between the preamp and the speaker. Yes pickups are negligeable in terms of tone but will affect the impedance of the signal, volume input and "bite"
True; a Les Paul plugged into a Marshall into a 4x12 sounds exactly like a Strat plugged into a Deluxe Reverb into the same 4x12
wow!!!!!!!!!!
I just put everything inside a piano, then into a cave, then D.I.'d into a cathedral. sounds terrible.
Dude, is that a Cold shirt?
Sounds like the guitar is coming from the camera mic, and not direct? The adjustments will not be as apparent to your audience.
It's still direct, but my mic was too high in the mix. Thanks for watching!
ok so i think im old enough to be your dad so here it goes.KEEP COFFEE AND ANY OTHER DRINKS AWAY FROM EQUIPMENT!!!!!!!!!
Noted. Thanks, Dad!
lid or no lid!!!!!
To play.
FRFR?
NO IT IS NOT A LIMITED SCOPE...it is the RANGE of human hearing, the numbers he is giving are wrong, the 20hz YOU CAN NEVER HEAR...YOu CAN feel it but NOT hear it, and the person that can hear 20000 hz is a DOG...NOT A PERSON?! where is he getting his information....do you seriously think that Celestion is making speakers that do not even COVER THE RANGE OF HUMAN HEARING>>>>NOT for one second are they that stupid!!!!! Hie is going to go into how FRFR are better and actually cobver the range, they go beyond (most speakers do just to include waveforms that can affect audible waves...so you don't lose anything...doesn't mean they need to be there , Celestion would be refining the range to make the speakers do particular things (Greenbacks push mids anyways, so the information at the extremes of these speakers is not so important). FRFR are great for those running impulse responses or modelers, (and for home audio use)...PERIOD...never even try this for guitar amps, amps are designed for celestion type speakers (most are designed and tweeked through actual celestion speakers and the type can make a huge difference in the un eq'ed sound)
That PRS just sounds....flat....not good.
nice vid,enjoyed.picked up some tips 4 sure,using pod go through headrush 108. you like your bumblebee ? caught my eye,,i use black mt. just curious, i have no choice,only have thumb & little finger always looking for the ultimate t- pick..
Yep I love my Fred Kelly Bumblebee Jazz picks!