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* Correction: Magna does not provide the ADAS system on the Supercruise.
@Montucky Man intelligence isn't your forte, man
@Brad Magnuson Why are you so butthurt! This video simply shows real world results. When EV grid and vehicles are good I will get one. Until then, hell no. Why would I? They use minerals and elements that are finite to make the batteries. Don't wanna run out,man!
@David Armstrong it will, because most camp sites have a 240 outlet, so you're good to go. Problem solved.
@David Armstrong best of luck 😂
Yes, I will hook on to my 35' travel trailer 9200 dry and head out in the mountains here in Idaho. That will work great. LOL
Imagine how much worse those batteries would perform in extreme cold or heat! 😳
@BobNet Vids Well if you build battery from prismatic lifepo4 cells you can save some serious cash. And even ready made lifepo4 batteries with heating don't cost 1000 dollars if you are talking about 12v system. For example EVE LF280K Grade A Cells cost 135 dollars and have 6,63 Wh/dollar.
@Blavichu they been saying this since the 70s lol.
@Blavichu or like when gas cars took over electric cars the first time. People tend to forget that the first EVs rolled out in the 1870s but were quickly dismissed because of the advent of cheap gasoline. Imagine where ev would be by now if it never had been abandoned.
Yes, put 245k miles on it like my 9 year old truck and see how EV’s hold up.
Sure, how many horses did it take to pull a 6000 lb covered wagon? Get real.
Seriously made me go from wanting this EV to now wanting a diesel truck
@Rusty Shackleford they ARE recyclable, and the efficiency is getting better everyday.
@Richard Sanchez similar to manufacturing petrol vehicles, it also create hazards to the environment. This is not exclusive to EV. But in the future, EV will have a better recyclability, which will negate the manufacturing damages to environment.
@Ed S Certainly hope that will happen.
Well I don't know about diesel, but suredly NOT electric. Maybe someday!!
@Rusty Shackleford yes they are. The lithium can be recycled. You checked the wrong batteries maybe.
This is really informative. I was really pulling for Lighting ; but 89 miles range . That’s is horrible .
@SAM SAM do you seriously not understand what happens when you add 6K or 7K pounds of extra weight onto the back of ANY truck? Do you not know that extra weight leads to miles per gallon lost on a gas truck? Do you not know that extra weight leads to range loss for an electric truck? This isn't rocket science, it's basic science and common sense
@Монгол дуу Well im a certified electronics technician for 20 years, so a little.
@Pickles do you even understand battery tech
@Bart Schwartz Amazon isn't in the business of recycling. That would be why they aren't set up.for it. Do you think before you type?
@DestruxandExploze a 440 would only take not even an hour
Imagine a 12 hr drive taking 17 because you gotta charge every 80miles
@Alex Nowicki lol. Dude, the infrastructure can be built, just like it was built for IC engines. Guys like you make me laugh, no understanding of emerging technology, you won’t be driving an IC vehicle in just a few years.
@Steve Reisman OK Boomer
Very expensive toys at this time. Physics are finite. Unicorn vehicles.
What are you going to buy chicken every 2 hours when you stop for a change again. O right you then sit there for 30 min.
@Steve Reisman The problem there is. The only demand is coming from government. Without Bidens govt created false fuel scarcity only about 5% of the population would choose electric. If not being Dependent on Putin is a problem, we have a 900 year global supply of oil at current usage here in the United States we can access.
You should also have mentioned that in addition to having doubled the range and gas it can be filled almost anywhere and in significantly less time.
These are all the same arguments that were made when cars were first introduced in the late 1800s. Right now EV are not as efficient as diesel or gasoline powered vehicles and the infrastructure to support them is not as common. They are going to be the future unless we find a better non hydrocarbon alternative.
But then again, not for long. Especially if you live in leftist states like Commiefornia, that plan to outlaw the sale of new gas powered vehicles, which will all but completely put filling stations with gasoline/diesel out of business, over time, and thus greatly limiting places you can go with a biofuel truck and trailer, even if you live in a state that does not practice arbitrary government overreach, dictating what fuels people can use.
That's right - and that particular charging station actually accommodated the trailer. Many would not - you'd have find a place to unhitch and park it. EVs are just not practical for towing - maybe to take your boat to a local lake or the utility trailer to Home Depot, but now for serious towing any distance. And a contractor or landscaper with a trailer going from job to job probably wouldn't make it through the day either. Let's face it - these EV pickups are commuters and grocery getters, like most gas pickups. But they can't really do double duty - like most gas pickups.
Without blocking anything. Also, lots of electrical plants are powered by coal and other CO2 fuels, so no planet saving with these. It's IDIOTIC. And these batteries will create a NIGHTMARE dump situation in a few years when they die out. So glad I'm dying before these plans come to full fruition. If you're under 30, I pity you people. Gonna be a cold, dark future for ya'll.
When you actually account for a total recharge of the Lightning, you saved only $6. Regular gasoline, which would have been fine, would have cost you roughly $78 and took a couple minutes. A 75% charge cost you $27 which means a full charge would have run you $36.....ONE WAY. Once you pay to recharge again once you reached home base you would have had a total of $72 in recharge cost. Who here is willing to spend an additional 88 minutes of their life to save $6.
Everyone getting jabbed
Full up gas. 5 minutes anywhere. Charge? Good luck charging in the wilds of America
@Matt Koopikka expensive toy.
That EV also cost over 100k and that denali if it's an ultimate cost around 82k. A regular denali cost around 62k.
This basically means that not only does Ford believe that your time is only worth $4/hr, but that in this video, the $/mile will only go up because electricity costs will only increase from here because of various initiatives. This is a fully engineered reduction in quality of life.
I really like the Chevy looks of it...over the Ford lightning.But how will it hold up in cold climates and hot??And does it come with a home garage charger?And what is the towing range...say towing a 4k boat??
With the millions of views in just a few weeks of posting your video, I think you guys have answered the question all of us truck folks have been wondering. Can’t say I didn’t expect that outcome.
@-Bryan- a little while? Try never.
@Thomas Schwarting Yeah, Im a huge EV fan. No one expected this thing to be a long distance tower. EVs atm are all short range daily tasks. The pickup now has utility. It will be a little while before batteries and charge times increase range comparable to gasoline vehicles. But in nearly every way EV is an improvement over gasoline. Many truck drivers dont go on road trips, dont tow long distances, and just use it as a daily driver that has some utility. With an EV truck you will spend less time charging at a charger than you used to fill up at a gas station. 90+% of fueling will be done at home overnight.
EV pickups seem to be NOT good for doing pickup things (think towing).How disappointing!!
You didn't expect an electric turd to fail?
I think what would get me, other than the obvious lack of range is the unpredictability of the range. Sure a gas or diesel truck may not be spot on either, but there’s no comparison between opportunities to charge vs opportunities to refuel.
Never have been a fan of EV from a practical standpointIf I want EV I'll buy a golf cart
Curious to see what this would have looked like towing uphill in the Rockies.
@Hillbilly in the Asia1st generation to 20th generation is a legitimate comparison when that is what you are being asked to choose from. Imagine if someone were to offer you a 1st gen iPhone at the same cost of a new iPhone 14 and try to convince you it would be a better experience.
It would look like this:Lightening pulls up to the base of the first hill. "Ok I'm done" "someone get me an extension cord and a cot to sleep on"
@larry zepol Never new there was such a thing as a nice accident. Besides, the battery would still be at the end of battery life. Not to mention that they don't interchange.
@Jeff Lee the problem that they went to the dealership is right! You need to look for the Same vehicle that has a good battery but has been in a nice accident. Look up a Clip-Sharer known as Rich Rebuilds. This one lone wolf has the ability to put the richest man on the planet on his heals. If he can do it I’m sure many others can as well. But if you are one of “by the book” guys then stick to what can be serviced by other people. If I can’t work on it I won’t buy it, hence I’m still gas engine guy.
@larry zepol I know of at least 1 2017 ev that needs a new battery. Only problem is they went to the dealership and found out they no longer make that battery. Now you have a 2017 yard ornament.
Wow. Almost 2.5 million views for this video. Although electric vehicles have come a long way, they still need lots of improvements, especially to our national infrastructure for recharging. Furthermore, when it comes to trucks, especially towing, the current generation of batteries are not up to par, as towing less than 100 miles on a full charge is pretty unacceptable.
You need to double the numbers for the Ford so it compares to the round trip cost of the GMC. Thanks so much for doing this. I know a lot of people have been wondering
What you did is prove just how impractical an electric truck is for people who actually use their pick-up or live in rural areas. I have an ev, and I laughed when it gave you the estimated range because I knew that it was way too optimistic.
Here in Monterey California it's quite common for me to see 3 or 4 cars in line waiting to charge at the local Target store. You are REQUIRED to stay with your vehicle while charging because others are waiting. I asked one guy at the end of the line why he didn't charge somewhere else. He said he was down to 18% battery and wasn't sure if he could make it to another charging station. Nice way to spend 3 or 4 hours of your vacation. Meanwhile, the girls in the gas car fill up in 3 minutes and there off to the beach.
Anyone who wants an electric vehicle has a definite short circuit in their brain. If you desire an electric vehicle go buy an electric golfcart.
Sexy story! Yeah EVS are for chumps
Well you dont have to wait in your vehicle for the charge. The crappy thing is you have to wait in line in the vehicle or someone takes up your place in the line.
The difference is, the gas truck could’ve carried an extra 2 (or 20) gallons of gas easily, whereas the electric truck could not lug an extra 20kw battery around.
@the upscriberjust need to add the cost of a battery and motors to the cost of the trailer.
@Ro Joe Would the battery you are towing go in front or behind the trailer you are already towing?
More than one person suggested adding a generator and some gas. Just fkkin gold.
I mean you could but 20 seconds worth of Jerry can is way easier than hauling aroumf a fat expensive battery just so you can sit and wait and wait and wait until you got enough juice charged in
@JetPilot No, I do not want to be limited in my purchases of vehicles because you and others like you have decided that lying about the cars you like is a good thing. What is worse is that it is the plank of a political party who represents the single commodity that runs the vehicle that you like. I also do not like that political party and the industry it represents having been lying to people for a while. Sir, I do not stand liars, and I do not stand those that defame other people, which you just have.
Whether by myself or with fam, I love to road trip and just drive to different cities, counties and states. I was hoping the F150 lightning was going to be my favorite thing ever! BUT I have x2 gripes. X1- At the moment, the inconvenience of having to stop and charge, and then electric vs gas price isn’t worth the inconvenience of stopping. X2 - aside from payload, I can’t tow with the truck, because the range drops significantly
What they don't talk about is battery life over time. This is a brand new truck. How efficient will this be in 5 years? I have a 2008 4 Runner. It gets the same gas mileage it did when it was new. Is that true for EV's? I know it's not for my battery powered tools.
I'll keep my 2500 Ram Cummins that tows my 38' 12000lb 5th wheel 250 miles to the beach and rides around at the beach for a week on one tank of fuel. It does this with the A/C going at whatever speed I deem necessary (usually at 70 mph for most of the trip, posted limit) without worry of range or power to climb hills. I have made the trip many times and always hand calculate between 10 and 13 MPG. The electric vehicles will need to up their game a LOT before I would ever consider one. Why no one is pursuing a diesel hybrid that doesn't use batteries (Like a freight train locomotive) which is way more efficient, is totally beyond comprehension.
No waiting an hour to refuel
And don’t forget all the passengers you probably had along. Electric trucks are nothing but a con.
Nickbeek, I am right with you 3500 Ram Cummins with a 35 ' 10000 5th wheel and get 17 mpg at 70 mph!!!
Guys, great videos, always interesting to watch!would you be also so kind to do such test on a teardrop trailers? Or maybe on something that has better aerodynamics. I've seen on other channel when a guy was able to improve the aerodynamics of his trailer and the range of the lightning was improved to almost the range without towing.Thanks again!
Sounds like BSGot a link ?
This was a amazing test ! Thanks for doing this, you covered all the bases.
@Bob Waite I could buy a used 80's/90's pickup truck, fix everything mechanical that's wrong with it, buy 3 replacement engines, 3 replacement transmissions, and put them on the shelf- for less than the price of the Lightning in this video.
@Jayson M The test was fine. They just did not calculate the data in any meaningful way for cost analysis. If you calculate the data the lighting saves at least $0.19 a mile. The first 100 miles you save even more but that depends on an individuals home electricity rates. And for the fools claiming that you need to factor in battery costs....WTF is wrong with you. EVs blow ICE cars out of the water in maint costs. This has been confirmed so many times. Do some research before spouting off next time and letting everyone know how stupid you are.
@Ryan the nearly $100 was for both way of the trip. The EV did charge to 100% for starters. Then they abandoned the test before seeing what it would cost for his charge for the return trip. The test was inconclusive.
@Ryan: Once the FULL costs of providing the electricity plus the additional ROAD TAXES are charged in, how do you think your comparison will be then?
@Albert Small I was implying that the cost of his food would be covered by the difference in the savings in comparison to the combustion engine.
This is the kind of video I've been waiting for. I'm glad to see a realistic video; however neither trailer was loaded with anything that you would typically have for a family going on a week's vacation. I just drove across the country with a trailer in tow, in an 05 escalate and can tell you that that EV would be left by the side of the road numerous times during that trip. There are places where it is 150 miles to the next gas station, and that is gas only no chargers. EV are not a good idea, as this illustrates. You would have to be serious about producing more electricity before deciding that vehicles should go electric. There is a war on energy in this country, and the loser is us.
Modern vehicle tech is so amazing! It's so great that you can input what you're towing so it can be sent wirelessly to data centers out of your control alongside with your trip path. All of which can be automatically accessed without your knowledge by any government agency, LE, or any company that requests or has previously been given full access to the data.
Nobody gives 2 FKs what you do. You might find that you are quite irrelevant, much like the rest of us.
That is not right at all
If we calulate that distance traveled would be 400 miles lighting would need 4 charges to 75 % 108 dollers while gmc will do that in much less cost and ev charging prices will go up as ev becomes more common
Very informative! I know now if I ever purchase an electric truck I will also have to get a big gas generator to charge it while I'm driving out west or it will take a week to do a one days drive.
You can't charge it while it's in use. You have to sit parked for an hr and wait. Evs are horrid road trip vehicles.
Let's see. The F150 Lightning had 1/3 of its normal range when towing, and a range computer that over-estimated range by nearly 50% despite putting in exact trailer data? I'm not sure which of those is more troubling, but it shows that vehicle was never intended to tow.
@jon luc just stating the facts
@Bill Durant whatever works for You👍
Salesman: “But it has a front trunk!!”😀🥴
@jon luc evidently too much for you .
@jon luc boy, I am just stating facts, don't blow a gasket, take a pill.
Time is money.... Can't wait all day charging on a road trip... Plus range anxiety to find a charger or having to wait for a charger..
Low battery anxiety is real for EV owners
Well, this is the third video I’ve watched in the last week proving the F150 Lightning is a joke when towing. 88 miles on a single charge…. What mook thought this was a brilliant idea?!?On a serious note: Thank you for doing this test and providing the real world data on EV trucks and their failure at doing real truck things.
what i'm learning right now is that there are going to be a ton of Lightnings on the used market in the not to distant future.
@Chatty Monkey Don So at the rate you're talking... 50+ years? Which is already in dream land. It took Lithium-ion batteries 40 years to get where we're at now.
@FatheredPuma81 Batteries have been around for a hundred years too. The technology improves exponentially faster. In 10 years we'll have cheaper batteries that will get 500 miles and charge twice as fast.
@Chatty Monkey Don Well it won't be happening in the timeframe of the first cell phone to today. More like the time frame from the first car to today. So over 100 years.
@FatheredPuma81 that has been the way with literally every industrial advancement. Better batteries are coming.
@Chatty Monkey Don EV's will never replace trucks or semi-trucks without a huge battery revolution. End of story.
Somehow I already knew that EVs struggle to tow, based upon another YT video in which a guy towed a horse trailer with a Tesla car. Since the cyber-truck wasn't released yet.The electric motor(s) is up to the task. The battery, not so much. But it still seems amazing that towing a beautiful RV trailer is possible with an electric truck. EVs currently depend upon high efficiency, which towing ruins that. ICE becomes more efficient under a towing load. An electric motor will need twice as much energy to do double the load. An ICE, maybe 30% more. ICE is more wasteful of energy, under low load. Just allow lots of time for recharging if towing with an EV. And go with ICE and not EV, if towing will be very frequent.
Great video. I have 20 years plus in the auto industry (technician/operations) and 5 years in the solar energy business. I’ll keep my dinosaur powered trucks and let solar help offset the cost of energy. This video shows how useless the Lighting really is…not to mention it’s a throw away. Regular maintenance…My 5.7 Tundra will still have value and life in 15 plus years. I bet towing and recovery companies are liking EV’s.
No competition, the gas wins hands down. Plus if you need A/C or heat, the EV is much worse. We are decades away, if ever, from EVs being able to compete.
@Stand andDeliver Solar here in Florida can save you up to 10% on your electric bill, and that is Government subsidized. Without taxpayer money it is worthless and if it wont work in Florida then it sure won't work in colder climates.
"Decades away" how do you even know that? Technology makes incredible advances in a matter of 5 years these days, especially with more R&D money going in than ever before.
This was a really good and honest test! Thank you.
The outcome of this test was never in question. EV's are great for commuter cars. Long hauls, especially towing operations are not there yet.
@Michael C Bruh, if you live in a shit area, then why don't you just have a 1,000 gal fuel tank at home lmao. Then you don't have to worry and buy it when prices are down.So you're gonna spend a literal fortune for a novelty truck that will be in the junkyard in 10 yrs, b/c you're not going to pay 50k (at least) for another pack.
@Paul Cantrell stupid and insane added cost. A solution for a problem that doesn't exist.
@Jason Langford That's my issue as well. Turn on your heater, headlights, etc and watch your range cut in half, especially if you drive up hill a-lot.
@Jayson Mayers they don’t comePut until late next year, but the Silverado range is a lot better than the ford.
@Justin Brown So you havent received this truck yet?
Perspective people. We clicked on this video because we are all curious about the towing and EVs are not ready for prime time (just yet). However, for the everyday driver “not commuting 200+ miles daily” which is 99% of us…it’s a huge win. The same folks banging on the EVs for general driving (no towing) are probably the same ones saying the 3.5 ecoboost was a fad/phase - lol. My 2021 XLT ecoboost cost me about $550 bucks a month for gas. My 2023 XLT lightening will cost me an overnight charge and $150 extra payment. No brainer.
Wonder how long it took to charge his electric truck, for the complete trip, he said 45 minutes when he first stopped and didn’t have a complete charge, It would take me about a day and 1/2 to drive from Louisville to Providence about 1000 miles🤔
My only question is if it is a problem of battery technology not being ready yet or if it’s a problem with the Ford. Would be interesting to see a comparison vs a Tesla or a Rivian.
Would like to see a complete round trip including downhill.
Kudos to the TFL team for using real world identical travel trailers at the same time and route rather than the flat bed. Makes a big difference and provides good control for the test.
@Pop Laurentiu well f series ain’t available in Europe sooo..
@William Kaiser Glad you thought it was hilarious. Obviously, you have never towed an 8 or 9000 lb camp trailer with an EV. You sound a bit obstinate or perhaps ignorant
@Roland Godwin It has been pointed out to you multiple times that the average truck owner would spend less time at public chargers than at the pump per year but you are too busy living your best life to understand basic points.
@Roland Godwin Arguing that it sucks for towing but then wants to talk about most people not being able to charge. Almost 100% of the people towing a rec vehicle can charge from home. And the majority of truck owners. What a loser.
@JOHN'S WICK This comment is hilarious. Both Mojave and Barstow have DC Fast chargers and when is the last time your off-road "EXCURSIONS" were more than 100 miles. Typically less than 20 miles off-road and at low speeds.
This test would be even more dramatic vs a Diesel. My old gas rigs were always hurt much more on trailer mileage than my diesels.
How long did it actually take to recharge the lightning up to 75%? I’m guessing at least an hour?
@T Ellison Wait until there’s more EVs on the road. You’ll have to wait for a charging station to open and then wait for your vehicle to charge. Gas stations, being full with cars, will only have a 5 min wait for a pump, with a 5 minute fill time at most.
He said about 45 minutes so im guessing a full charge would be about 1 1\2 hours which is BS.....Charging times are a deal breaker to most people without a charger at home
While yes the EV towing capabilities currently are rather underwhelming, keep in mind that EV's are basically still being born as a technology, I mean at most they are like half outta the womb, so comparing them to a technology that has been being refined (not developed, but refined) for more than 100years would be like comparing the athletic prowess of a toddler who just learned to walk to a 25yo olympic track athlete. That said this test is useful in comparing current capabilities of the technologies as they are now. I would be suprised though if in the next decade the EV's didn't start closing the performance gap considerably.Finally the argument about the lack of charging stations as a reason that EV's aren't going to be practical long term is a bit asinine I'm sure people said the same thing about cars and gas stations when they were still new "oh those automobiles will never catch on, imagine having to stop every 100 miles to refuel, my horse is only slightly slower and can eat grass along the way.".Infustructure will grow as demand does and charging stations will likely become as prevalent as gas stations if not more so as there is less logistical support nessesary to maintain them (ie. You don't have to use fuel to get fuel trucks out there all the time to restock the station).
Just for fun, my diesel powered Airstream Interstate RV Camper Van weighs about 10,000 lbs loaded and my range is 330 miles with a couple gallons left. About 18 mpg.
The cost of the V8 was quite high, but the Duramax would be significantly less, so the ICE vehicle is still the only viable option for longer distance towing. Just imagine if this test was done at 2019 gas prices.
@Joe Kaiser A diesel doesn't get gas mileage, It gets diesel mileage.
@Jake S just changed the oil on my dads 3.0 duramax. He got the oil and filter at the dealer and it was under 70 dollars. Getting 24-25 mpg.
Okay so it was 90 something dollars to fill up the gasoline vehicle let's say they would have charged the lightning 100%, it would have been about 30 bucks and do the return trip the entire 155 miles with the trailer. Also charging again that would have been another hour. So that's $60 right there with let's say 18 bucks for lunch. That would have been 2 hours tops that he wasted charging and you would have only saved 12 bucks give me my 2 hours. Plus the gas vehicle still had 65 miles left before filling. That would've been a third charge for the Lightning and another hour before the gas vehicle filled once.
@Jake S In Illinois diesel is pretty much or par with 87 octane or very close.
@Make Asylums Great Again • 10 years ago ice has had it’s 130 years, and now we’re going to have to move on.don’t worry we’ll still have to burn some fossil fuel, but it’s going to have to be limited. It’s just a matter of investing in infrastructure. We invested in infrastructure for fossil fuel extraction, processing, transportation, and fueling stations. Now its electricity ⚡️
Just listened to the companion Podcast to this episode and was really surprised. Normally I agree with Roman in most instances but this time Tommy was spot on. EV trucks just aren’t there yet besides in town “mall crawling”. However, the day of the ICE family sedan are done. That’s where current EV tech shines. I own a land clearing business in Georgia and tow anywhere within a 30 mile radius of my shop every day and a 5th wheel camper most weekends so realistically this just won’t work. However, we just purchased a Model 3 LR for my wife and I love it. It’s the perfect around town everyday car and does great on the rare road trip where we don’t bring the camper. I feel like this will be the norm in the near future, HD truck to put the work in and long distance tow and an EV for everything else. But Romans comments about doing it the other way around just seem bass ackwards!
The family EV has the same problem with range and charging time and battery replacement cost in a few years.
What I get from this video is that electric vehicles are, currently, only suitable for inner-city commuting and are not viable for towing recreational vehicles for any significant amount of distance.The Lightning would need a battery 3-4 times larger than it currently has to match the towing range of that GMC, or about a 400kWh battery pack. Imaging the cost and time you'd spend charging that battery every three hours of driving.What a shame, especially when you remember that the Lightning costs more than the GMC.
As someone who regularly takes 1000+ mile road trips (sometimes hauling a trailer), love my v8 even more now lol. That thing can go 300+ miles with a full trailer. EV trucks are mall crawlers that will never see a spec of dirt in the bed 😆
I would love to see some cold weather testing, temperatures below 0F, because it gets to -50F annually where I live and the next closest town of 1,000+ people is over 100 miles away in every direction. Also, none of the communities, including mine, have any quick charging stations, there may be one about 300 miles away but I am not sure.
Don't forget charging time factored in as well - you cannot practically charge to 100% while on the road, blocking traffic. Keeping it between 20 and 80 will lower the range significantly. Now we need a payload range test with the camper OR tools loaded in the back. You have now shown the lightning to be impractical for towing recreationally. Now its time to test for a local work truck, then a camper, then off road - the four main reasons to have a pickup truck.
Man these electric cars suck. They tell you 500 miles worth of range but DONT USE 40% OF IT!
It would be interesting to see future trailers incorporating a battery and being able to plug in to the tow vehicle and augment it's range. In fact, you could even have the trailer motorized so that it doesn't impact the tow vehicle range at all.
@Andrew Neven This isn't necessarily true. We don't keep our cars topped off and fairly regularly have to refill from empty. Every other weekend we have to make two 4-hour trips that require a full tank of gas, and almost always have to stop at a gas station before the trip to fill up. Like Robin said, this isn't a major contributing factor considering how quick it is to fill up an ICE vehicle and the fact that the infrastructure is in place for it already, but the time is still there. Even if you do it the night before, that's still time at the pump spent on this trip because the only reason you're there is to fill up in preparation for the trip. However, you are right about the commute to and from the gas station because you can always fill up on the way out of town, so the travel time to the gas station is not extra, and you don't have to drive back home.
@Andrew Neven time is time it should be counted for a true comparison.
@Ductape I'm just referring to the weight of the trailer, not the weight of the truck itself.
Do a video during the winter time to see how it really preforms..... please
Would have been an even better test if you loaded the trailers with camping gear, clothes, water in the tanks etc..! Then that would be more like a real world test!
I own a new Lightning and it’s awesome! I don’t toe much but I do haul small things for work as a pro painter. I don’t need a big gas or diesel since my 20’ aluminum boat is most I tow. Also, my Lighting is very comfortable, quiet, and FAST!!! My range is 230 miles which is more than enough for me. I totally drive less than 60 miles per day and about 300 miles per week. If I go on a long trip I’ll fly or rent something. My maintenance is:Rotate tiresFill washer fluidChange wiper bladesIt has independent suspension which I had on my TRD PRO SEQUOIA. Loved it. Electric isn’t for everyone but it is good for most.
It would probably work on a farm where you can plug it in when you’re not out and about. But for things like towing a boat, it would basically be impossible. Imagine driving up hill.
Great video, my number is up to buy the Lightning and I'm seriously considering. This is a good info, not sure if it stops me. I don't tow a trailer (anymore). The 5th wheel is no more. But I might tow a boat to the local ramp, so no fear there. Loved the Ike hill challenge to. My questions:1) what about normal highway, no towing, how far will it go? Will it really make 300 miles?2) Is Caine better than Chick-fil-A? I saw the sign, I love Chick-fil-A.
Raising Cane's only does tenders. But they do them better than anybody else. Chick-fil-A has the spicy deluxe sandwich that is my go to. Damn, now I want chicken for lunch.
Very informative video. Most of us think about EV range in terms of a passenger car or SUV, but with the advent of EV pickup trucks, this is very valuable information.BTW, I don’t think that Ford will be a TFL sponsor any time soon…
I wouldve been more interested in towing capacity of the same brand truck equvalent body and most fuel efficient gas with same or better towing capacity rating.I watched a Rivian truck video and it towed 7000lbs about 100 miles i believe before it ran out of electricity and needed charged with that being said not all electic trucks are equal in build.
So glad you guys are doing this and showing everyone how evs are just not ready to take over.
Would love to see this taken to another scale that's similarly as useful to all Americans. Semi-truck vs Train style.EV's as we know them today will never take over for hauling btw. Would require a completely new kind of battery.
You mean work better in many but not all situations...which will always be the case!
Great video. Little tip from a technician: best not to top off at the pump. When you do, there’s a better than decent chance you’ll push fuel into the activated charcoal canister, which is part of your evaporative emissions system. Once contaminated with fuel, it’s is basically ruined and this can set faults during purging, as well as potentially make venting a problem during future fueling, which can cause the pump to shut off prematurely. Best to call it quits when the pump shuts off the first time. Great job on this comparison in showing the real world reality of EV towing and charging.
An interesting test but not surprising as similar tests have been done with the same results. For me the glaring omission is the lack of a proper hitch setup for that size, weight, and type of trailer.
I have owned my 7.3 F250 for 15 years and absolutely love it. It is truly the best and most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned (and I am pretty old and have owned many). I love her to death, but with diesel at $6 bucks a gallon, the cost of my daily fuel consumption is going to pay for my new Lightning. Please let it be known that I am a die hard motor head and have all kinds of toys. I have quads, trikes, dual sport bikes, vintage cars, a tractor, vintage Cub Cadets, jeeps a diesel boat and a 2 stroke boat. I also have a remote cabin 250 miles from home (out of range for the EV). Will all of this prevent me from buying my first lightning? Hell no. will it replace my F250? Hell no. But I am absoultely certain that driving around in the EV doing 0-60 in 4 seconds is going to give me at least as big a smile as 0-60 in 6.5 does in my diesel. Will one replace the other? No way, not yet. But why all the hate? I will keep my 01 f250, rather than spending 100k for a new one, and I will invest that in the EV and do all my local driving (and towing) with that and save the f250 for the long hauls. Best of both worlds. I just don't understand all the hate. Its all just too politicized. People are just too resistant to change. And I do get that it is a bunch of money just to try something out, but what's life without a little risk? I know that if I dont like mine, next years model is already going for 10K more because of the chip shortage, so I could always sell it and at very least break even. Personally I think I will love it, as I know I couldnt wipe the smile off my face the first time I drove it off the lot. It is one of the most impressive machines I have ever driven.
I’d like to see a towing comparison between a diesel and the electric toaster. This would be a much better comparison.
EVs are great for commuting and around town, but long hauling still requires gas/diesel.
@John Galt Sad reality.
@I'm Not Using My Real Name BlackRock owns everything, anyway.
@I'm Not Using My Real Name yeah, we're a long way from electric aircraft. Our long distance ground vehicles should be running biofuels and we should reserve what we have left of petroleum for mostly aircraft.
@SirEuchre Yeah. As always, the internal combustion engine is far from dead, and other combustion engines like turbofans are FAAAAAR from dead lol.
@Bmendonc Hyundai has really cool concepts for hydrogen for Industrial vehicle applications.
Interesting video. You will get much better range if driving under 55, but the towing range is an issue.
I have a 2003 Dodge Ram Hemi with the same engine and transmission to this day, 19 years later and still running strong. I would like to see an EV do that before I consider buying any EV Truck.
And that was going downhill..... If you ever been on 25 in those parts
I would've loved to see the Ford EV follow the GMC back and see if there is a drafting effect and if it helps with the range
It definitely would drafting bumps mpg big time especially when towing.
I think we need to build trucks like we do trains. Have a small I.C.E. that can run on bio-diesel or ethanol that powers a small generator connected to a smaller battery pack, connected to traction motors. You would have a very minimal carbon footprint, longer range, quick to refuel.
I think the proper test would have been how far can you tow in 8 or 10 hours? An actual real world test!
I would have expected to total price for the EV charging cost/ mile to have been mentioned. Not only the "top up" for part of the return trip...
Now do one on towing up mountains at zero degrees.
Takeaway from the test. The range on both vehicles is reduced when pulling a trailer. Charging stations are not designed for trailers. Charge the truck to 3/4 capacity so it is faster, although still slow compared to fuel which is much faster to fill and can be "topped off." On a long road trip, gas will get there, electric will need a hotel.
@Buddy Revell they actually did a cost test video on similar vehicles on this channel. The electric truck was the cheapest to charge publicly on a paid charger by like $5. And at home charging, the electric was more than 3x cheaper than the liquid fuels.
@Solandri Acanthocybium A bigger factor is that EV's base their range on efficiency tricks such as regenerative braking. The moment you pull something heavier than 3,000 lbs, you have to contend with caliper braking losses from the trailer brakes, which is going to be a significant contributor to overall energy losses.
@STETT He was asking are there 350kw Chargers in the United States and yes there are. It's very easy to Google this.
@Buddy Revell I guess if the station is funded by the state. Though I have no state taxes (the state I grew up in also didnt have state taxes and has a huge population (Florida)). But in my city I havent seen free chargers funded by the state. They are at hotels and business parks, and are owned by those places. Rarely they are also at shopping centers who pay for them. I live in Vegas so we have even more free charging than usual, since almost every large casino has free chargers.
@TechViewer you went from a gas guzzler to a subcompact. That's half of your fuel savings right there. There is no free EV charging. That cost is born by the state or municipality. It's the equivalent of the state giving away free gas. That cost is directly subsidized by the taxpayers. Solar homes, that just ads the cost of the panels over 20 years. It's also not free.. Geez..
I know this is a way down the line, but it would be interesting to see what a vehicle powered on hydrogen would do.
This was good to see but I was a bit astonished at the gas mpg pulling 6k lbs. Folks are always talking down on the 5.7 Tundra but I was getting a solid 11-12 mpg pulling 5.5k lbs from Arkansas to Arizona and back.
That small segment could be gradually uphill. When driving from SETX to northern AK pulling a 30ft camper, I was getting 9-10 mpgs. On the way back home I was getting 13-14 mpgs. Chevy Silverado 5.3. Driving habits make a difference too.
Barely 90 miles range in the Ford Lighting with trailer?! Pathetic. I'll keep my 2017 Canyon diesel (32-33 mph at 60 mph). Love your channel. Thanks for the eye opening review!!
Thanks for the info guys, but there are many unrealistic things in your test. Your test results actually give the user of the lightning 19mph average in the real world. I'll explain. The biggest problem is your storage is empty. Normally I would have around 3-4k lbs of weight in the camper & truck bed. Things like 30-90 gals of water tanks, ATVs, generator, fuel cans, supplies, food, tools, etc. I would also like to get to my campsite, of around 200 miles away, on Friday (after work) before the sun sets to setup camp. How many hours would it take to do that in the Ford lighting fully loaded in the real question. Also, when driving in the Colorado mountains, up & down passes, fully loaded, there are no charging stations. What then? Do I need to pull out my generator to charge the batteries. With a combination engine, my normal average mile per hour is 58. With your test results of 1/3 range the average mph would be 19. I think we can all agree, out of town camping trips are not happening in the sorry excuse of a Truck, which is just a Tesla with a bed.
That is a real eye opener on the range restrictions of the Lightning. Thanks for the ride along!
@T B not if you are on a schedule, drop offs , stop and go and now it no fast charge so you have to factor in charge time. Time is money ! More time spent at charge station means more money you miss out on.
Yeah, for towing, the EU laws to max go 80 km/h is a step in the right direction. Also, for towing - especially wintertime, battery packs must be in the 200+ kWh range. If consuming 50 kWh/100 km, that gives 400 km of real world range, so you can use the 20-80% SoC of the battery for safety and quicker charging. So chargers must be maximum 0,6*400 km = 240 km apart, and preferably 200+ kW chargers.It isn't more complicated than that. We will get there in 5-10 years, which is just a "snap of the fingers". So... EVs ARE THE FUTURE!
@JustinsGr8 They are lying to you. Open your lies. They are coming. XD
@Magic Mike They always lie
The technology is there to correct the battery "issue" and the mpg "issue"; however there's money to be made at every fill-up and re-charge ...
Considering 131 KW hours is the same amount of energy there is in 4 gallons of gas,. It was never going to be too much of a fair fight comparing it to a truck that has a 24 gallon gas tank even though the gas truck is only about 30% efficient, it should still be able to do what the lightning does on two charges on one tank of gas. Then you have to factor in that the lightning isn't optimized for towing then you can still be impressed that it makes the equivalent of 23 miles to the gallon while towing. But for a light for like comparison you should put 4 gallons of gas in the Silverado and each fill up to compare it to what the lightning is doing. Once you realize that and accept physics then you decide whether you want to try to tow trailers with a lightning.
I've been swinging a wrench for the majority of my life, The technology on these vehicles electric or not is completely unnecessary and ridiculous.The only thing that would justify the technology that's attached to these vehicles is if they were capable of flight.
131 kWh pack is just a silly effort to get into this segment. Years ago when the Cybertruck was announced and we all began discussing how silly such a vehicle with such a significant mass / cross sectional area, I feel 300-400 kWh was the universally agreed upon minimum. The Lightning has a 131 kWh pack which is only ~30% more than a P100D. The Lightning is also ~30% heavier, significantly less aerodynamic and is intended to tow bulky, heavy objects. It's was so obvious this would be the result from back in 2019 that even Rivian sells their truck with a 180 kWh pack, and it's 700 lbs less than the Ford. ~37% more juice, 12% less weight. It seems like they murdered this one on their first attempt at an EV. WTF is Ford doing?Give us a truck with a 400 kWh battery pack and it'll actually prove to have "some" use outside of a city going home depot runner...
Electric vehicles have a very long way to go to be even close to their ICE powered counterparts. If this test was done in outback Australia, there's a very real risk that driving the Electric vehicle could cost you your life.
Thanks again TFL for this real life comparison. I viewed the initial test on the IKE with the Rivian and immediately could see that an EV is just not ready for real life trailer towing. I had a reservation for a Lightning and that video helped me to then cancel and I purchased a F150 Tremor with a 36 gallon tank. I just took a camping trip with a 5500 lb trailer and went 355 miles on one tank. There is no comparison EVs are just not ready yet.
@davva360 lol…The Lightning is not fine, towing or not. 100% useless for traveling any distance.
memobug0 seconds agoFrom the numbers at the end, the electric was doing 3 miles/dollar and the gas was about 2 miles/dollar for fuel. Gas has gotten more expensive since then so it might be lower like 1.5 mikes/dollar, so twice the cost.If your time Is free or if you have a weak bladder and need to stop every 90 miles for a restroom or chicken you could hopscotch all the way across the country. Other people might want to get there earlier even if it cost double.
@Ken Pumford there’s not a lot wrong with the lightning. It would suck at long distance towing but short distance towing it would be fine.
I drive a Mustang Mach E and absolutely love it, as a second car in the household. I would not want it for my primary car given the amount of long road trips that we do. We recently took a long drive in a single day, and if we had taken the EV it would have added four hours to the journey, each way, due to charging time. And knowing what I know about reduced range in the winter and while towing, I don’t see much of a use case for an electric truck that you buy to do serious work with, at least at this stage of the technology. Delivery vans and the ubiquitous white contractor vans though seem like they would be good candidates for electrification.
@John Goad how much in $ is your time though?
Great test - thanks for running it!
I would like to see you do the same trip doing 55 MPH and see how much difference that makes
Time is money bro. You're losing money in time trying to save money by slowing down
I think the real question is if electric motors had been around as long as the combustion engine would the roles would be reversed.
I have an idea...The Lightning could carry a gas-powered generator in the bed to recharge the battery while driving! This would improve the range....but the weight of the generator "might" negatively affect the towing capacity.
86 miles, amazing. Curious to see how the battery holds up. Battery degradation could be a issue
@Scott DeSart no, if an EV is old enough, it'll hit 50% charge capacity, but that car would likely have to be at least 12 years old. Lithium ion isn't magic--they all degrade, it's just a matter of how fast. The upside is Li-ion battery packs can be recycled, so it's not a total loss.
@Berenger Christy I never set a goal post. I merely said EV are not viable out here in the Pacific Northwest. We just got a Ford Lightning in at our dealership, 80,000. A couple things. I can commute a long way on 80 grand. Also, not many folks I know in our primarily blue collar can afford that kind of money for a commuter car. Even a Mach E is 50 grand plus. I’m just stating facts there’s little to no infrastructure out here
@Scott DeSart stop moving the goalposts. that's not a reasonable commute for anyone. I never mentioned all day trips, however some electric cars can make that trip, so good self own. my point stands and hasn't been reasonably refuted. seeing as you refuse to engage with any of my points, take the last word and get muted. gg have fun
@Berenger Christy drive from Missoula to Billings and you quickly understand
@Scott DeSart montana, not idaho. been to most states. definitely wouldn't want to live in the midwest. too flat and boring, but electric cars work there too, at least for the people who can afford one worth getting, as most people only use their cars to get themselves from here to there and back againidk what theory you're talking about. fact is any electric vehicle has the range to handle almost anyone's commute while costing less to maintain and operate. however, most people get the car they want, not the one they need to accomplish a task, which is why people love big dumb trucks and SUVs
I'll be honest I was disappointed with both of their mileage returns. I have towed a US travel trailer with a puny Range Rover P38 petrol and got 14mpg. I towed a 36 foot 5th wheel with an f350 c 1994 and still managed 12mpg. That was in UK traffic with a lot of cars around.
Hmm. Two big factors on range are speed and aero. Another channel towed a 5000lb trailer a much further distance and got wayyyy better range. In some parts they were getting nearly double this efficiency. For one, their trailer was shorter (hauling a car) instead of that giant air dam of a camper. And secondly, im betting they just drove slower.
I know this sounds crazy but can you charge an f150 while driving with a generator to get more distance while towing?
Again, electric vehicles are a novelty. Even when I used to fly model airplanes, gas (nitro) was always the preferred fuel. The only weak link was the battery for the electronics that powered the receiver and servos. Which is why we all carried an extra battery. I guess you could do the same on an electric vehicle, but then you would probably be adding another $20,000 - 25,000 in price plus another 700 - 1,000 lbs of weight.
@The Fast Lane Truck No, they still fly gas planes and even jets with real turbine engines powered by batt....I mean gas.
We got some bad news for you. No one flies gas RC planes. They are all electric now.
Thanks for showing what an absolute disaster electric trucks are for towing long distances like I have been saying for years.
You ain't the only one.
Would the price points of the vehicles, as well as the top package that was equipped on the Denali, wouldn't it have been a closer comparison to use a Rivian?
The best solution would be a plugin hybrid truck with 40-50 miles of all EV range for daily driving, - about 90% of most driving - and a gas engine for long trips and towing. But the industry has decided otherwise.
Well, the EV can't go that far, but at least it takes a lot longer to "fill up"!
If one actually calculates the energy created by the ICE engine during the combustion cycle to the EV, one learns the entire EV battery can't compare to one minute or RPM of the ICE engine. EVs are a con job.
I've been wondering this for a while... Apart from the lost and wasted time hanging around, how much extra should someone budget for coffee, drinks, snacks, fast food, and overnight motel/hotel stays while it's charging? Shouldn't these extra costs also be included in the 'math' to figure out the true cost to charge it?
@tewest86 no problem… ”small gov’t repubs” are trying to ban contraceptives/birth control.
@BILL FERRIS very soviet--quite appropriate for this period of our history.
how about time at $60/hr to sit around and wait?
@Captain Dred by "poorly painted" I mean the location of the line versus the path to travel from the single lane into the dual lane. If the single lane leads the car to end up in the middle of the new lane lane, the car gets worried and tries to move left/right HARD, but if the painted line guides you into the right lane, as it should, it just keeps driving.This is not more complicated than a "bugfix" on Tesla's part, but they haven't gotten around to it in the Highway FSD Stack, as they are working on getting the FSD Beta Stack/one stack to rule them all, onto highway driving, so it will be solved.We have proper winter here. Today, my FSD requires visible lane lines to engage, then it can keep going on gravel/unpainted/even sometimes snow, but it is a bit unsure doing so.FSD Beta works the way YOU do, with your eyes you can see the road, even if it is covered with snow. It will be the same with FSD Beta, anything you can do, it can do.
@T B Okay, if that gets confused by poorly painted lane lines, it would never work for most of Canada. For half the year we can't even see the lines on the road, and when they aren't covered in snow, they are definitely poorly painted.
As a nationwide contractor who invested all on Ford and lost half, that is a very very hard "No" for us!
I think the bigger argument here is. The electric truck would need to find a place to recharge for a good while whereas the gas could one carry more fuel, 3 stop at any gas station along the way and fuel up for a few mins and take back off. I think ev’s are a good idea but in a truck platform I think we are a long way off for it being a good option especially when towing. I feel like emergency recharge would be almost guaranteed on any length trip.