@Just some guy not a conspiracy theory at all. A game that didn't sell as much as its previous one and got a ton of back lash, lay offs, leaks and even the developers ( the original ones anyway ) talked about thr game problems, production, and the company itself. That game won game of the year for the simple fact it was being politically correct and a lot of judges and the gaming industry changed a lot.
I can understand Joel's lack of firearms proficiency since after the fall of civilization, it's not like you can go to the range and do drills anymore. You're gonna save all the ammo you've got for actual combat. Firearms skills are perishable.
I think these problems could be solved by having a moment where Ellie's casual confidence gets shattered somehow--- a close call, her first look at the brutality of human survivors out in no man's land, etc. Essentially, she needs a "scared straight" moment to knock her down a peg and establish the dynamic we see in the game. Joel's "resolution" to the situation could also showcase the fact that he is brutal and downright scary, and seeing him in that light could change the way Ellie behaves around him. It could also remind Joel that there's no reason he should let Ellie walk all over him, and that just because she's a kid doesn't mean she gets a pass to do and say whatever she wants. Honestly, building up their relationship slightly, then shattering it entirely in this way might be the best thing for a long term payoff that builds throughout the series.
@ Daniel S. Didn’t they show Joel’s brutality and life experience with the guard as they left the town? Shouldn’t that have been the “scared straight” moment for Ellie..
I think they are rushing too much, leaving out a lot of Ellie and Joel time together and how much strong their father/daughter relationship grows over time.
Yeah, I've tried to stick with the show, and I have nothing against the actors, but I am just not feeling that bond that Ellie and Joel had in the game. I don't really think it was necessary to make a show of it, because it does feel rushed, but I'm also not really watching it anymore so...
Gina Carano is way too feminine and not nearly physically built to take on that role... Maybe she could play a superhero or something, but definitely not the role of Abby... Is John Cena back from panda-ering to China yet? I'd reccomend him for a realistic portrayal... Although he's probably had too much laser body hair removal to complete the look 🤣
I think that despite the points being made by the drinker being accurate at the time it turns out that it was kinda nessisary for the pay off. Bella Ramsey plays a more realistic version of Ellie. Her cocky, eager and arrogant nature was just a facade to hide how powerless and scared she is which is most evident in episode 6 where she says she can't do this without Joel and her eagerness towards violence is also key as after killing David she realises that there's nothing cool about murder. There's just destruction. Also Bella Ramsey now plays the more optimistic Ellie after episode 3 which is an improvement. The only real criticism is that the show lacks action. In the Kansas section and David section they could've had more action.
@Gamer Forever like the Drinker said I was more invested in Henry and Sam (more side characters) than Ellie and what’s his name. So far I’d rather watch a show filled with the minor characters. Plus your point about episode six, Ellie comes off like an elite killing machine even despite the stupid mistakes the script has her make that should have caused her to die. Not to mention the cliches like the clever being right in arms reach and the fact not a single soul on the compound sees the fire happening therefore bringing reinforcements. Dumb episode.
@Dman I feel like the changes were a mixed bag. Some better and some weren't. the Bill and Frank change was questionable. Bill was a representation of what Joel could become if he abandoned Ellie. However they also represent a reason why the world of the Last of Us is still worth living in but I prefer the og. The Cathleen and new Henry and Sam storyline was clear. It was SO much better than the games despite the games version being very good anyway. The change with Jackson was mixed. Hate how their portrayed as they are meant to be the hope of the World but I like how paranoid they are which would be interesting considering the events of the Last of Us 2. Hate how Maria is portrayed but I prefer how Tommy is portrayed as it made NO sense how much he hated Joel despite it being obvious that he was trying to keep them alive. I like how they made David an evil demon which makes his death more satisfying but the lack of ambiguity makes him much less creepy. The major complain with the changes is that they make the nature of the story much less ambiguous and much more up front which to me somewhat damages the overall story but they also use those changes to create amazing stories like Bill and Frank and the Kathline storyline.
@Gamer Forever it alters the story beats and makes them a lot more cringy. I can appreciate their attempt but it was unnecessary and lessened the impact.
@Dman again. What does the adaptation do wrong? The show was meant to show the last of us to an audience who haven't played the games or to re-experience the game for the players in a different form while improving some pre-existing problems the game had along the way. How did the show go wrong?
Holy shit, fantastic video! This sums up my thoughts so far pretty much exactly. You absolutely nailed the character changes to Joel and Ellie to better fit the versions they gave us in part 2, but there's one piece about Ellie I feel you didn't fully address. You mentioned how she's capable, confident, and unflinching to the violence around her, but it's more than that. She's being portrayed as sadistic, likely to make her brutal revenge-fueled massacre across Seattle in season seem more believable. First she seems to find it "cool" when Joel beats that soldier to death, rather than disturbed or at all uncomfortable. In the first game, Ellie would often comment on Joel's brutality both in scripted moments and randomly during combat. And then when she kills the stalker in the basement, she slowly cuts into it with her knife before she puts it down. Neither of these are things Ellie would do in the first game
@Pedro lechef and in doing so they are sadly making her character so 2D. It should be that there are no "good guys" or "bad guys". Just people making realistic decisions. I feel the show is just turning the dial up to 100 with the virtue signaling; especially after the last episode. The game was much more nuanced in my view.
@Muyang Cheng She is 100% changed to fit TLOU2's Ellie. They make her struggle against Joel to save Tess who is doomed anyway, she smells the gun she picks up and then observes psychotically as Joel is beating the soldier.
Ellie slowly cuts the forehead to observe how the fungus grow in the zombie's brain, not for some random sadistic pleasure....and given when you commented you've probably seen episode 4 already where Ellie was explicitly shown to hesitate before finally shooting someone to save Joel. The Ellie in the show and the Ellie in the game are both naïve and compassionate, just not in the same way. And I would argue that the show Ellie is not changed to fit part 2 (as a lot of whiners seems to believe so), but to fit the post-apocalyptic world more. The kid literally went to military school surrounded by kids who can't stop talking about resistance and rebellion while, simultaneously, never been outside the wall and never seen a real life-threatening zombie. If anything, the game Ellie is more explicitly naive and compassionate in the "wrong" way, I for one am glad that the show producers decided to change it up instead of following whatever the source material went with, it implies actual thought put into adapting it into actual screenplay.
I barely see Joel murdering a raider for Ellie let alone anyone else. Will love to see how they try and pull of this father-daughter bond because right now, it ain’t there, nor do I see the seeds of it.
I didn’t think I could be the only one out there that felt this way about Ellie, but it’s still nice to be validated out loud 😂 She’s offered such a 2-dimensional performance so far and it worked well for GOT, but here her emotionally portrayable layers, or lack thereof, are on full display and it doesn’t work.
@Matth like it’s ok to be afraid, that is understandable given the circumstances. But to openly admit that he would have watched Ellie get mauled apart by a dog because he was so scared to do anything other than freeze up just takes him straight into coward territory. Like drinker said they’re just trying to retroactively change him to his pushover version of himself that was present in Part 2.
@Matth I agree. Very forced and not believable as far as Ramsey's acting imo. I think Pascal has done pretty well other than episode 6 (part of that is the script's fault tho).
@sayhello2heaven yes thank you, watching Joel getting anxiety attacks made me physically cringe. "Oh you should go without me Ellie I'm to weak. Waaah waaah" I hated Ellie's casting to begin with, but there is just something off about how she delivers her lines, like it comes through so irritating and snarky it pisses me off.
@Obi-Wan Kenobi I think that as the series grew and it was time for Bella to step up as a actress she did so very well. I was very impressed with her performance in recent episodes, episode 8 specifically. What are your thoughts of tonights episode?
Having watched the latest episode I sadly agree with the drinker. Joel was dumbed down and turned into a scared bitter man. Basically they nerfed him so that the series will better link to the Joel from Part 2. It’s sad, they have such a well balanced story, I don’t mind Joel and Ellie’s small talk and of course they had to include new dialogue but every interaction shows Ellie as witty and funny while Joel is just grumpy. (Ps i still can’t fully believe Bella Ramsey as Ellie, especially if we compare her to Ashley Johnson, she is on a whole another planet)
@Julian his brutal and becomes protective over Ellie. I get what they saying about Joel from the series at this point i can't see this character pointing a gun at innocent people and killing them just so he can protect Ellie
@Animezilla 44 it doesn't matter. If the person is going to be killed to find the cure you have to tell them that so they can make the decision with inormed consent. It is in no way moral to lie to the person to trick hem into agreeing and then kill them to get a cure. That is completely and totally wrong. No abmiguity, it's not complicated that that is immoral. It's just as immoral as to take the person life by force without their permission, because that's exactly what they planned to do, they just did it in the most convenient way possible for their own psyche, by tricking her rather than ha ing to tie her down and murder her while she struggles to get away. Plus they didn't even try anything that wouldn't have killed her. Did test her blood, her bone marrow, nothing. They just bumped straight to murder. Which if anything is just lazy writing. But either what there's no ambiguity, the fireflies were in the wrong and the woman in the second game, hunting down Joel, she's getting revenge for her evil parents. She didn't bother to find out why her parents died she just wants blind revenge. So she is also in the wrong. Really really really wanting something someone else has, is never justification for murder.
@G E the only reason they were going to kill Ellie was because she had the cure so you got to admit this is kind of complicated one hand I didn't want Elliot to die on the other hand this could have been the only chance to stop the disease
Guys I think when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. This show wasn't that woke. I have a few gripes with the fact that all the "leader" characters they added that weren't in the game just haddd to be women unless they were evil military police or literal pedophiles, the "communism good" comment in the wyoming episode, and the random, forced panic attack scenes they made Joel do, but for the most part this was never done at the expense of the plot and we got one good season out of it with Joel's character completely intact.
Just for the record, Pedro Pascal grew up, in part, in San Antonio, TX. As someone who grew up in neighboring Arkansas, I think his accent is pretty natural - not over the top or forced.
@Obi-Wan Kenobi Bro shut up Texans literally sound like everyone else in the US with a few syllables that some, SOME people still have a drawl with. I've traveled most of the US at this point and spent about a third of that time in Texas and neighboring states and pretty much everyone in the US sounds exactly the same except the deep south, which Texas is not. It's pretty safe to say at this point there's more of an American accent if anything.
Yeah tbh this video is a lot of cap, farming views from super reactive people who just want to baby rage about woke shit. I HATE woke writing but you're completely right like what is he talking about, when did Joel's accent change? What made Bella Ramsey's performance bad? I don't see it.
I just finished season 1 finale I really enjoyed most of this show. I completely get why you were predicting the calm before the storm, which is a understandable in modern TV and movies.. However after watching this, I was pleased to see how close it held to the source material. I'm looking forward to your Post Season review. Thanks for the work you put into the Industry.
Having finished the first season, I can say that any fan of the game should watch it. It recreates many of the beats from the game, while also adding context to certain situations that is definitely welcome. It's faithfully done, especially since the director of the game has such a big role in making it. I want to play the second game now before season 2 is released because I have high hopes for this series.
Just an advance warning, the second game is awful. Not gameplay wise, but the story is so bad that it makes it hard to keep playing. This is why I'm worried about the second season. How often do we get a good series adapted from bad source material?
Your criticisms of Ellie are spot on and can be explained by the current zeitgeist post the game's release in 2013. Every leading woman in a film or TV show has to be strong and independent. On top of that they are all smart and thus in charge, as they should be according to the current year. Men are stupid and erratic, unless they are black in which case they are heroes and also smart (but not as smart as the women).
@Turd Rocket Again, what did I say what you didn't say? I didn't even accuse you of anything. I even asked if you are for real arguing for a better looking actress on an underaged role. I didn't accuse you of anything. You said it and I asked if you are serious about it. I gave my reasons why I don't like casing adult models for children roles. You are yet to answer why you would even argue that, no you start to deny saying it in the first place. Where is the logic in that? You want to see an attack where there is none. If I wanted to attack that view instead of chalenging it, but now you are arguing that I wasn't even in the conversation? This is apublic comment section. If you don't want to answer about anything you write, then don't write it instead of denying it afterwards.
@MacGyver You hitting that copium hard. Last of Us II was complete trash. There were themes in the game that other games achieved far better for example the whole “revenge is bad” message was done 10x better in Red Dead 2.
@Crow Zero Same goes for the first game tbh. Story wasn't that good or innovative too. Only thing it had that was really a lot better than a lot of games of its time was how they portrayed the relationship between joel and ellie. Wasn't innovative too, we have seen this story told a lot of times in movies, but it was just really well exectued in that game, and games usually don't depict emotional relationships that well visually.
This is one of those cases where I actually got lucky. In a vacuum, having not played the games (always meant to get around to it but never had the time), the show has been pretty good. Especially compared to a lot of the trash that many networks have been pushing. I am kind of curious how the hell they made it from Boston all the way to Kansas city without any problems, but I am also curious why they went that route in the first place when they were going to Wyoming.
As an aside in reality in that scenario I’d get a boat from Boston sail it to New Orleans then up the Mississippi to Missouri before embarking on the zombie gauntlet.
Thus show made me replay the game. It's better than I remember. At least that will always be there..I was lucky enough to play the original completely fresh. I knew nothing of it until my brother threw tue disc at me and DEMANDED i play it. One best game experiences ever. Period
First time I have disagreed with a review. Having said that have not played the game. I think Ellie is well written given what she has gone through. I don’t find her annoying nor overconfident. I think she is flawed, her overconfidence gets her into trouble. She is also seeking someone who gives a shit about her, and despite Joel being a cold prick, wants him to be that person. It’s quite sad. Their relationship, her as the daughter he lost, him as the family she wants develops over the show and is well handled. Joel is a strong character and comes across as uninterested in her as a person to begin with. He is actually a man of few words, stoic - something you said was missing from the modern entertainment output today. Ellie says a lot but it doesn’t mean he gives a shot about what she says. Gone off a bit early on the bullshit detector there. I agree episode three was excellent and no bad thing not to try to follow the game too closely.
Considering that a black doctor was retconned from the first game in order to crowbar in the faceless character that is supposed to be Abby's dad in 2, that would actually be less weird than whatever the fuck 2 was supposed to be.
Having only just found "TCD" I am absolutely delighted to find someone whose frank, accurate and beautifully grumpy reviews are always bang on the money. My only question for you is this.... How did you not want to destroy the actor who plays the character of Kathleen with the psychotic hatred of Henry? Surely one of the worst portrayals of a good person turned bad ever made.
@Just another Gopnik She has more depth than that, in my opinion. I see her as a broken person who lost her only connection to reality; her brother. You can see from her discourse that she heavily suffered seeing her people oppressed by Fedra. On both occasions where she is talking to collaborators, she mentions how her people were tortured and killed, not only er brother. She genuinely felt that, to the point of not being capable of feeling anymore (something that almost happened to Joel). When she asks Henry if Sam is worth everything, it's a very honest and loaded question: she actually means everything. In her perspective, Henry deprived everyone, not just her, of Michael. He took away from her people someone who would guide them to freedom and wellbeing. To keep Sam alive, Henry jeopardized years of a more pacific revolution that could have resulted in a much better situation for her whole people. Henry doomed everybody of a more fruitful, healthy outcoming. Michael was the man with the kindness, integrity, morality, and (in her eyes) a world without him has lost all reasons for these virtues to exist. Of course, she IS a lunatic and a very bad leader. I'm not denying that. I just think she has more layers than that.
I don't know, she always seemed evil to me, it was her brother that was the good one and who kept her in check, but since he's gone and she's the next one in the chain of command, then she gets all that power and no one to stop her from squandering it on something so fruitless and stupid like putting all the blame on a man and his mute deaf brother and hunting them down instead of dealing with the actual imminent threat.
My favorite part of TLOU is hands down the start of the infection. Playing that at night with a large glass door nearby will make you paranoid real quick
I really hope they try to make Abby likable for season 2 or when Part 2 will be adapted. Instead of just having her jump in and kill Joel and then force us to see what kind of person she was like before then as some excuse to get us to care, I'd rather they meet and build a close connection, a relationship, until she ultimately finds out that Joel is the one who killed her father, leaving her with conflicted emotions, a sense of betrayal, and unsure of what to do: Take revenge or get more answers. An alternative would be that instead of killing Joel, she ends up beating him into a coma, only barely rescued by Tommy and other members from the scouting party. While he's in recovery and comatose, Ellie goes to chase down Abby for answers. She ultimately attempts to reason with members of Abby's group in order to get close to her, but when they refuse and attack her, she resorts to killing as many of them as possible to get to her as soon as she can, doing much of what she did in the game in the process. Once she finally reaches Abby, she ultimately realizes she still plans to kill Joel in retaliation. After a last conflict, Ellie manages to kill Abby. By the time she gets back to Jackson, Joel has regained consciousness and asks Ellie if she's okay and what happened. Ellie lies and tells Joel that Abby and her group won't be coming back, and swears. Joel, much like Ellie at the end of Part 1, knows she's lying, but accepts her swear. For the alternative, instead of Joel's actions being done out of selfishness as Part 2 says, rather than it being an impossible choice as Part 1 depicts, Joel's actions remain grey, and while the conflict between him and Ellie still happens, he has the evidence showing that they've already done tests on others with no success, meaning she would've been another failed test subject. Regardless, she's left with conflicting emotions and some unwillingness to come to terms with such a realization. After she kills Abby, she realizes what Joel had to do, and while she doesn't completely forgive him, she still comes to terms with it and accepts it.
I don’t really agree with this assessment of Joel in the show. He’s actually very capable and tells Ellie what to do. He lost his cool once when he had his PTSD triggered, but that’s about it. I think he’s great.
Joel isn't as capable as he was in the game. HBO Joel used the assault rifle very ineffectively against the Clickers. It should have been an easy victory. Assault rifles are very powerful. Joel used it like a novice. In the game, Joel and friends had to fight the Clickers using revolvers, a much less powerful weapon. He's less in charge and Ellie is overconfident. Joel's character has been diluted. HBO is making Joel a less 'cool' character because they are trying to avoid the Season 2 backlash when Joel gets murdered. They are making changes to his character to make him less likeable. Go and compare Joel's reaction to Tess being bitten in the game to the show. Joel has a much more sympathetic and grieving reaction to learning that Tess was bitten.
Never played the game and generally a bit of a miserable bar steward, but after watching 6 episodes, I've enjoyed the series so far and found the burgeoning relationship of Joel and Ellie quite touching.
The game is definitely better, but the show does a very good job of bringing the game to life. I'd recommed the show to anyone who doesn't play video games, because it tells a good story and is smartly written.
From what I've seen of the show so far it won't measure up to the game, not even close. Even if you just watch a play through of both games you'll get a better sense of the plot, the characters and the relationships / bonds that are made over what appears to be more naturally paced progression. Sad to read that folks having viewed the show and not the game struggle to understand the relationship between Joel and Ellie. This was core to the story, have they really messed up this much? Some characters from the show are nothing like from the game.. TV show Ellie is getting a lot of praise but from what I've seen she's not like the original character in the slightest. Just a girl too young trying too hard to appear like an angry/difficult teenager
@John Doe Eh it's not that hard. It's an orphan who wants a badass dad and wants to be like him and a man wanting to not fail his daughter again. Works for most of us watching the show.
@@tlf2818 no its not subjective. Say I made a movie filming a shit I took and 1 person actually liked it, that doesn't make it a good movie. There are certain factors you can point out which make a quality piece of entertainment . If a show or movie has bad acting or cgi, a couple ppl enjoying it doesn't make it good
@fudgepacker Art and entertaining aren't subjective? This is new to me. And to a lot of people, I guess. I wrote a poem once that tackled a very personall experience of mine and put it on instagram. Two friends came to me saying how much they identified with the sentiment and how they saw themselves in it. It genuinely confused me, since I saw that my intimate reason for writing it would actually turn it hermetic. But, you know, maybe, just maybe, different people, with different backgrounds, experiences and so on, could actually see different things in the same piece of art. I won't even expect for you to regard this. At this point, I'm just considering things myself. Goodbye. It was actually fun discussing this topic, but it ran its course.
6:16 - 6:44 Oh how E8 'When We Are In Need' would change your mind on Bella Ramsey's Ellie. Because *holy crap* did she knock her performance out of the park!
Yeah I also felt like she got the job done. Nothing to write home about but as far as convincing us of the Ellie they wrote for the show (which is admittedly a little different but not unrecognizable) she did a fantastic job. Drinker got this one wrong tbh.
@LK HartlyLion honestly I'm so confused why people are saying she can't act and doesn't give a captivating performance, ep 8 was the icing on the cake for her character with her acting displaying how someone would realistically react in a situation like that
I know right? episode 4 and 5 were the episodes where I was assured that her character is going down the right path, but damn episode 8 was really good.
Yep, they openly make him weak in the latest episode and they also make communism look nice. “The message” seems to transcend the plot. It’s a shame, it’s not a bad show.
Bella Ramsay as Ellie is one of weirdest casting choices I've seen in a while. For a character with such a central part it's hard to care at all about her.
I went into this show without having played the game and I STILLI had the same impressions about Joel. His relationship with Ellie almost immediately feels like Obi Wan and Leia in "Kenobi". Another perfect example of a formally smart, confident, capable man being watered down for the sake of his female counterpart (no matter how much younger and inexperienced she is). The most obvious example is when Ellie first begins saving Joel left and right. The real kicker was when she was captured by the "cult" guy. She manages to escape by killing the leader and his right hand only for Joel to show-up afterwards and give her a hug. After killing the two guys in the house, Joel literally could've have gone back to the basement and took a nap and everything would have been fine. Even with that, I mostly enjoyed the show. From a technical standpoint it's very well done. I actually like Ellie and the actresses portrayal of her but again, I don't have the game character to weigh her against. I did not like the way it ended. I remember putting my head down going, "It was all for nothing." If there is a season 2 I probably won't bother.
I loved the beginning of the 2nd episode with the Jakarta outbreak had me hooked right then and there. I think I will wait until it’s all out to finish though
But drinker, you loquacious lush, why did you have to go and show me the problems with the writing? Now I can never un-see them! But really… Coming into the show as someone who knows nothing of the video game, I’ve really enjoyed it. Ellie is the weakest character but I’m not sure I saw Joel the way you think they are intending to portray him. Coming in cold, as I have, I see Joel as a survivor, someone who has failed to protect those he loves and is now burdened with the responsibility to protect someone he does not like, an irresponsible, irritating kid (cause you know, those aren’t common or anything/s). I dunno, I’m still holding onto hope that the story continues to be well written and well performed. There really hasn’t been an episode with Joel and Ellie alone yet. I think the next one will establish the bond that you refer to and, hopefully, endear us to Ellie a bit. Time will tell.
Just finished season one. Whole thing was good from start to finish minus a few divergences for wokeness which didn't trample the plot as is so often the case. No one is wrong for liking this show.
Unfortunately the trouble ahead has arrived. Just tried to make it through episode 7 and I don’t know if I can recover. Joel was weak, dying, giving up while a clearly fatherless Ellie was cussing, drinking, beating up a girl twice her size, and was completely annoying. The confident independent woman trope is now trickling down to little girls.
You'd like to think they take some of the criticism of the 2nd game into consideration but it will be difficult to change the narrative enough to make people happy. Perhaps the best that can be hoped for is that s.1 ends at an appropriate point that will feel like a close for some who don't want to watch s.2
I'd love to hear your thoughts on Survivors (the original BBC series). It's low-budget, of course, but the first season is packed with good storytelling and (a bonus in these cliched times) the drama has no need for zombies.
@Alfred Lear I got the first season a few years ago for Christmas. Hadn't seen it since it was first broadcast but it was even better than I remembered. Now you've mentioned those highlights (especially the kangaroo court) I need to watch the whole series again!
He won't have seen it. The remake was poor. Terry Nation's original, the 70s one, all on Clip-Share, is a masterpiece. Love it all, I even own the dvds (remember them). From mercury poisoning, a star court (that gets it's judgement wrong), rabid dogs, windmills, smallpox, rebuilding train networks, general farming, stress on relationships, children growing, vets as surgeons, the London illness and Greg's petrol coupons. It's pure quality through and through. They don't make them like they used to ...
In the game characters would ask why none of this world is affecting her? And then her experience with David really pulls her into reality. I've always liked your content but it seems no matter what nothings ever good enough 😕
They don't want to make Joel too likable or strong because of the inevitable sendoff that will most likely trigger a big part of the non-videogame playing audience this series has. Then again, Pascal already has experience having his head smashed into an unrecognizable mess so maybe they can live with it too.
Well, let me assure you that you have seen nothing because (spoilers!) you just wait until the next time they're in deep shit and suddenly its Morbin time!
@capn bdub I'm not watching shit. I know what happens in the later season. Here is an actual spoiler: Joel gets killed by She-Man and we are all suppose to root for her/him/it.
@Pax Gamer Bill was always gay and seeing his "partner", as he called him in the game, hanging from a rope when Joel and Bill were arguing before they noticed him was a hard hitting moment. The hurt on Bill's face pointing out the bite marks on Frank making it obvious why he took his own life and the letter he leaves Bill is so harsh. The series completely does a nose dive into the deep end of the woke pool in all the most boring ways. They took all the parts they got right sent them in a wrong direction, and they were the parts I really liked😕, so why ruin them about the most interesting character in the game. The problem is Druckmann has a very FU mentality cus he never got free reign on the original game. He has gone back on his own words in way you can think of, he even said he wanted people to be upset about brutally and wrongfully, killing a purposefully neutered version of Joel, all of which he admitted to. then complained about the backlash after not getting the success that he wanted, which is something he also wanted. 🤨 What the fuck? All of the above paragraph isn't my opinion it's what he came out and, said, wrote, lied and gone back on all by himself. It's a perfect example of what happens when you ignore your advisers. PR nightmare! Just being curious here. Have you played the game yourself?
@Pax Gamer No. Maybe a shit load of people used it, and yes it may be a little bit dead that's true. But it's strange how we pick up on these things after a few months, yet people like Druckmann seem to miss that point after 7 miserable years of the same sh¡th mistakes, which is all we have left to today!
I glad drinker doesn't just hate stuff because of a certain portrayal. I was starting to think maybe he just hates a certain subject matter. But maybe hes just critical of how it's pushed for political reasons. I think frank and bills peice was amazing. So we'll acted and written and a good deviation from the game. It's awesome u can just be objective and it's not just a general dislike for anything in this area of life. They took some risks here but they also did it well and put some effort into it and weren't lazy. Great episode
Like you I am very into this show but not yet "hooked", so to speak. However, while it has been been quite some time since I played the game, I remember very clearly that the moment I realized how much I had been drawn in was when the perspective switched to Ellie. I remember being in that deep snow trying to shoot this stupid deer with a bow and arrow so Joel doesn't die and thinking "wow, we've really come a long way from Boston." It's hard to put into words but I remember having a strong feeling of "scale" at that moment. Like I was really feeling how long the journey had been, how much distance had been covered, and how much had changed. I also clearly remember the first time that Ellie killed an infected, the fact that she was shocked, but in a somewhat ambiguous way, and remember how vaguely uncomfortable it was to watch her become a good killer. Like, "ok, this young person has been damaged now which probably means I'm being a bad adult". Given that they have left Boston I guess we won't be getting the mall scene from the DLC with Ellie and (I forget her name) unless it is a future flashback. That scene absolutely blew me away with its humanity.
No, we're totally getting that mall scene with Riley. They've been building up to it and the scene of Ellie and Riley posing for pictures was in the trailer.
Here after watching episode 4. I think they showed Ellie’s playful and vulnerable side really well in this episode. She’s not being portrayed as “smarter” or “stronger” than Joel. After she shot that guy, you could tell she was distraught.
I think they got Joel right in 1 scene. I believe it was the 1st episode (I could be wrong), when he was standing on a building corner, waiting for Tess to finish meeting with an informant. A firefly recruiter shows up and does the whole “if you’re lost in the dark…” but then Joel cuts him off and retorts, “if you say ‘look for the light’ I’ll break your jaw”. If they made Joel like that entirely, 150% better of a show
Looks like Drinker might be right on this one, after watching episode six it's clear this series has a huge looming Bella Ramsey problem. How is she going to carry two series? She has been rewritten to be bloody insufferable in this series and Joel is too weak, (spoilers) literally having a panic attack, but guess what Ellie is a "natural" despite living her whole life in the QZ. Having just finished the game, it's jarring, but clearly this is an Ellie show not a Joel show, perhaps to try and make series two and three more believable. Episode three did make me cry, though!
@desertuser Her acting is fine, I think the character is just bad. My opinion but the bonding in episode 6 felt really forced. She was humanized a bit in episode 7 but I didn't really believe the Joel/Ellie bond in 6 - maybe half because there didn't seem to be a natural progression and half because I don't like the character. Episode 8 just cemented the feeling that she's a complete psychopath, like even David figured that out about her from just a brief pointed conversation 😂 but his motivation for keeping her alive was generally illogical and wasn't explained well... Tbh not sure I'd care if they sacrificed this Ellie for the vaccine, which is world's away what I felt for the game character 🤷🏻♂️ I avoided part 2 but sounds like she was turned into a murdering psychopath in that, so I suppose it makes sense to build up to that now.
@TheXNuahs I'm almost coming around to Bella Ramsey! I really enjoyed the latest episode and finally thought she captured innocence Ellie had at the start of the game. Having said that the DLC really did retcon Ellie and it does throw off the start of the game somewhat.
I hate what they've done to Joel's character over the newer incarnations. In the original game he was so human. He never made the "right" choices, in fact he did some pretty questionable things but if we're honest with ourselves I bet any one of us would make the same choices if it came to it. That's what I loved about his character, he was an anti-hero but so relatable.
Eeeh, I don't know if I quite agree all the way. To me, it seems more like Ellie is trying to project herself as confident and brave to hide her fear and insecurity rather than actually being brave and confident. When she leads the conversations with Joel, it's less that Joel is being passive, and more that Joel doesn't want to talk in the first place and Ellie is going out of her way to try to get him to open up. Maybe I'm just biased in its favor because of the game, but I still have hope for the show
I think it's not that the actress Bella Ramsey who can't portray a good Ellie, it's the directors and writers that are pushing her characterization to be an obnoxious out-of-character audience insert. Given the correct direction and writing, she could deliver a good performance of Ellie that is more realistic and faithful to the game.
@Jay H Who cares about realistic? People that tune in to watch the series are mostly faithful fans of the TLOU game and they want to see an accurate, consistent portrayal of the characters in the game. If the HBO version of Ellie looks like Humpty Dumpty and speaks with a British accent, that simply doesn't cut it. I don't know what else to tell you.
@Anurag Chakraborty That's a smaller problem than the direction that they have taken with her character. She just looks average and that's more realistic in a way.
Jesus! About time someone says it! I feel like I've been going crazy! Everyone is raving about how good it is and I'm like " are we watching the same show?"
Raul Julia doing Street Fighter for his kids while he was sick was probably one of the coolest, sweetest, most dad things ever. Thank you for taking the moment to find a reason to put him in your video.
@newtpondskipper I still definitely think he gets a lot of credit for defining what Gomez as a character looked,sounded and acted like. Him and Christina Ricci as Wednesday are two of the most iconic parts in those movies. Though the entire cast is fantastic. But still I respect the heck out of the man for knowing he was dying and still finishing this role to get cash for his family. Even as he was so close to the end he gave this movie his all. For that alone I have to respect him so deeply. Yeah it's not the best role to end on but rarely do actors get that luxury.
ellie is bold and brash and acts independently all the time in the game what are you talking about?? she literally yells at bill and joel bout how she knows how to pop a clutch and drives a car away from the infected so idk where in the game she was this inexperienced child with no idea what’s going on outside the walls
Bit late to this and dont know your opinion of the newer episodes, but i think you take ellie's reactions way too much at face value. I absolutely saw emotion in how Ellie killed that infected trapped in the basement of that building. She was scared at the possibility of it attacking, but was excited to take the opportunity to prove she could at least do *something*.
See the game had banters besides the cutscenes to make the relationship of Joel and Ellie more constructed and based. But the writers on the show seems to be too distracted to show different factors and characters in the show that will play a part the later episodes that they rush the core reason of this whole show; Joel and Ellie's relationship. Joel was able to become a father again and learn to care, and Ellie turned into a competent survivor and learned to be the strongest person of herself. And Drinker's right, if they go with story format and personality of the TLOU part 2... I'm also worried about the future of this show as well.
WELP, I'm here from the future to tell you that you unfortunately called it. Joel is a weak, emasculated, dumbed down, husk of what we all know him from in the first game. And there is no relationship between Joel and Ellie, just two people next to each other that appear to be more in competition or comparison the entire series.
@ADIDASects Or just stands there idle in one spot for several minutes because the "player" went to the toilet. Then just continues without any explanation lol
LOL. You know how hard I would laugh if like, three times an episode he walks off the given path like 10 feet to pick up a bunch of screws...and never explains himself.
Oh man I'm worried about how they will portray the ending of season 1 when Joel rescues Ellie from the hospital I have some very mixed feelings on this show. On one hand I love seeing the story from the game brought to life but on the other there are those cracks beginning to show. As well as the looming spectre of season 2.
Part of why I never played those games is because of how much I hate the escort missions in every game that uses them. Since the entirety of that first game was supposed to be an escort mission I said no to the whole thing. After reading the story for the second game I kind of felt vindicated in my belief that it would suck.
I feel the same way about the ellie acting but haven't commented on it to my friends because it's a young person and she's probably doing her best with the casting and all. Plus she looks nothing like her, but that's a curse with a lot of roles.
I think we all know it's only good because the network it is on... 1/2 of the shows are pretty decent on the network. and my co-workers who are diverse LOVE this show, which just slams home what you've been saying all along. my black co-worker says now she's into the video game too, watches the show with her kids and family and now plays the game with them! Movie makers need to listen to real people not the "culture war" American politicians and corporations have largely created to divide us around anything except fighting together to end problems in the world.
Unrelated, but hey Drinker, can we get a shoutout for, of all the goddamn things, Puss in Boots showing how to put life into animated cinema again? How to make male heroes humbled, but then again empowered? How to both write and show an imposing villain? And reminding people of how important values of friendship and family are? I still can't wrap my damn head around how Dreamworks dragged this corpse of a franchise up and then had the balls to somehow actually nail the production on it.
The Puss in Boots movie was more woke than the Last of Us. Puss didn't need to have a random panic attack and Kitty Softpaws has him completely neutered pretty much the entire time she's on screen. If you want to talk about female characters upstaging male leads it's actually a pretty good example.
You’ll notice that TV show Ellie hasn’t had any moment of weakness yet, no tears, no panicked reactions or helpless situations. She’s been made to look invulnerable which, unfortunately makes any character slightly unlikeable from a viewer perspective as there is nothing to relate to with her.
i had a completely different take on TLOU1 joel tbh. yes he is very capable, more than most, but not invincible. If you recall, Tess was the 'leader' in their little gang and elle actually saves him from that hunter. They work together opening doors and stuff and like i said elle gives combat support too, also outside of the cutscenes. The game wouldnt be the same if you couldnt mow down dosens of enemies but they wanted you to feel tense and scared of being overwhelmed or left without resources. So the worriying traumatised joel of the show fits perfectly i think. Elle is very different and i think the writers want to take her in a bit different direction. She's seeing all this violence around her and therefore learns that violence is the only way to be safe. its not normal for a 14 year old to coldly murder something, even if its a zombie. She's fucked up and turning into a psychopath which i think is a cool element to explore. that would also explain a bit more the insane lenghts she goes to in pt2. and yeah ep 3 was super good, completely agree
It’s possible that I’m lucky enough to have played the game so long ago that I don’t clearly remember the characters so when I watched the show, it seemed familiar enough to not bother me. I liked it.
I agree about what was said about the character or Ellie, but I wouldn’t put that down to Bella’s acting abilities. The character seems to have been written in a certain way (maybe playing into Ramsey’s style?).
The thing that made Bella Ramsey good in GoT is how this little kid had a deadpan, monotone, authoritative kind of attitude you wouldn’t expect coming out of a kid. That’s a problem here, because Ellie is a very vibrant and expressive character.
@crazy silly "A BIG difference between being ‘implied’ and being ‘out and proud and rubbing it in your face'" Exactly! Modern woke authors wouldnt know "subtlety" and a "nuance" even if it's put under their noses... They are just: "tick this box in the most evident and blatant way so our modern audience can praise and applaud us on twitter for our stunning and brave attitude!"
In the light of episodes 4 and 5, has your view of Bella's acting changed? Would you agree that the Joel/Ellie relationship is evolving organically and in accordance with their relationship in TLOU 1?
@jamesparra2821 I've played the game many times and am playing it again right now...just about to take on the first bloater. I respectfully disagree. The show is wonderful and adds layers that, good as the game us, improve improve the storytelling. Just my opinion of course.
Replay the game this show doesn't hold a candle to the story in terms of emotion or pacing it's a fine mediocre TV show but unfortunately they've put in the world of the last of us and compared to what came before it's atrocious.
I never played the game. The show had me in episode one but it has started to waver. Spot on about the side characters in episode 3 but i would have liked to have seen more of Joel and Tess, too.
Some issues here. Joel wasn’t a former soldier and he also seems very skilled with guns. I don’t think hitting a charging superhuman fungus beast that wants to tear you apart limb from limb is going to be a clean shot, and him “losing control” is a great way for them imo, to humanize him and add some layers of severe PTSD to his character. In real life people aren’t killing machines like video game pro tags and him having knee pain, PTSD and signs of aging is a great way to add more layers of depth to him that aren’t easy to pull of with the constraints of games. As for him meandering through scenes as you put it, I don’t really see how. He’s terrified of connecting with anyone else after the losses he’s been dealt and he seems genuinely unable to relate to other people in any way which makes him seem even more emotionally broken. All valid complaints I suppose but I disagree
I don’t understand how you can mess this up. The characters are already there. Acting in the game, showing all emotions . It’s not like the actors need to read off a script and use their imagination. The image is literally in front of them. Just copy what you see don’t change the character. Sarah was amazing on episode one and gave me hope for the series
I think Ellie should be given more time because her story gives me the "cocky teenager that has been through shit but doesn't actually fully gasp the gravity of the situation" vibes. Have you seen teenagers that have seen messed up shit or lived it? They have a fake confidence that stems from the false belief that hardship=wisdom and experience and are completely oblivious to how naive they are. Ellie for example, thinks death, zombies and gun battles are cool, without having been in one and I am curious if they'll just make her "the cool independent teenager" or actually show reality hit her when she finally fully understands what's happening, such as taking a human life or making hard decisions. I don't mind Joel being "emasculated" as he is definitely a way broken man in the TV show than the game. Bill and Frank's story shows that the series is reimagining of the game. In the game, Bill is more unhinged and his relationship with Frank is pretty much a punchline ending with Ellie finding gay porn magazines. Here, it's actually compelling and way better! Also, Pedro is fucking nailing it in this bitch. Not just the delivery, but the expressions as well, the subtle stuff, like how he answers quickly and to the point, shutting Ellie off during that scene in the collapsed block. Bella Ramsey is my ickyness with the show. It's weird, cuz it's as if she's always close to giving a decent delivery but it's like she's too tired/disinterested in going the final few metres to get there. Which creates this weird situation where Ellie's actions and words say (fake) confidence while her delivery says apathic and angsty.
I think the problem with Ellie is the same with every teen character in pos apocalyptic settings: they are generally annoying and you want them to die so the adults don’t have to constantly save them from themselves
Ellie hasn't really needed saving by Joel in two episodes though. He needed to save her ass with the soldier guy in Episode 1, but since then... no, not really at all. It's actually kind of a narrative problem how little she's seemingly needed his help. I'm not sure what you're talking about.
@Ryan Wilson That's a different question. meanwhile actress is getting the hate, that's a simple fact. And with this going the "older Ellie" will get even more hate, whoever will be unfortunate enough to play her.
No matter how competent they are, adaptations like this almost always come off as kind of hollow to me. Like, I already know these characters so to see them like this almost comes off to me like I'm watching cosplayers instead of watching the actual characters themselves. It's kind of weird.
I feel like there are three camps of people who watch this show, those who have never played the game, those who have played the game but don't quite remember it, and those who played the game and have a pretty good memory of what happens. If you take any of the iconic scenes from the game and play it side-by-side with this show then hands down you will see better dialogue, acting, and facial expressions from a game that was made for the PS3 then you would from this dumpster fire of a show. If you want to see just how trash the changes and acting in this show then watch episode 6, and then watch the games version of when he meets up with His brother tommy. This show is disappointing trash.
I love how harsh you are and what a high bar you set for creative excellence. So many viewers become complacent in their mass media consumption and are willing to let slide lazy, pandering “art” in the name of fast-food entertainment that does the job, makes them feel full, yet wasn’t nourishing. But my favorite aspect of your relentless criticism is how it shines the brightest spotlight on art when it is truly good. Bringing accountability to the mediocre, you prime us for the mind-blowing spectacle of great cinema when it (infrequently) comes. I appreciate what an effective gatekeeper you are: “…can’t fool the Drinker.”
My favorite scene so far is after Tess dies, when Joel turns to Ellie and says "Now we truly are the last of us". Perfectly adapted from the game. Sent chills down my spine.
It seems if you dont like Bella's looks you must be either really shallow or a creep , but the fact is it's human nature to prefer symmetry in all things, from art to natural objects and yes.. faces. From a scientific point of view, theory goes that the human visual system is “hard wired” in a way that makes it much easier to process symmetrical stimuli than asymmetrical stimuli. So the ease of processing symmetrical stimuli would cause us to naturally prefer them to asymmetrical stimuli.
What really showed their hand, to me, was having the villain in ep 5 be a "Karen" Kathleen who is hunting innocent black people and having all the fireflies be POC women. The writers cannot help assigning morality to people with specific race and gender. This will affect the story in predictable ways.
How are you going to have a group of grizzled city raiders be led by someone that looks like a chunky Pam from the Office? Especially 20 years into a post-apocalytic environment. It's off-putting. The lady who sacrificed herself in ep 2 was believable, but that's because there was less HBO writer influence.
At least people who are new to the last of us will get to experience the most hilarious fumble of a season 2 in streaming history! I see the tidal wave of memes coming over the horizon as we speak...
Entertainment
![[슈취타] EP.7 SUGA with 지민](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/X6Svs7gYs1U/mqdefault.jpg)
Whoever gets cast as Abby in season 2, best of luck. You should probably stop checking social media for two or three years after that.
Ronda Rousey maybe 😂
@Samuel J D nope bruhh ,im waiting the moment for the whole community hating her whoever she is 😍😍😍
Indeed, a lot of wackos out there.
@Just some guy not a conspiracy theory at all. A game that didn't sell as much as its previous one and got a ton of back lash, lay offs, leaks and even the developers ( the original ones anyway ) talked about thr game problems, production, and the company itself. That game won game of the year for the simple fact it was being politically correct and a lot of judges and the gaming industry changed a lot.
A post-apocalyptic series that must reflect the world we live in today.
@Tech Freak so tell me what does the gameplay consist of? Dancing? Lmao
@Dope Cat she's definitely bi.
@God I think it's a story based adventure game with occasional action setpieces and zombie shooting. Action to me sounds like cod or doom or DMC.
@Tech Freak what did you think it was? Dance dance revolution? Lmao
@God It genuinely didn't strike me that much as an action game, okay?
“Handles guns as effectively as a vegan yoga instructor from California” destroyed me 😂🤣
I can understand Joel's lack of firearms proficiency since after the fall of civilization, it's not like you can go to the range and do drills anymore. You're gonna save all the ammo you've got for actual combat. Firearms skills are perishable.
Except Joel isn't a former soldier, Tommy is
As a Californian, I concur.
This show is more of a Lifetime Channel Drama than a Zombie Survival story.
😐
I enjoyed the part where Ellie prances around loudly in the cities or wilderness, completely carefree of any dangers lurking about
To be fair, that is probably the most accurate part of it. She sure was loud a lot in the game lol.
@shid_in_my_pant yeah lmao
@Anika Smith she can't be infected but I doubt getting bit would be a nice experience
Yeah im always like "holy shit be quiet!"
@Anika Smithtill a freaking zombie comes out and claps ur cheeks
I think these problems could be solved by having a moment where Ellie's casual confidence gets shattered somehow--- a close call, her first look at the brutality of human survivors out in no man's land, etc. Essentially, she needs a "scared straight" moment to knock her down a peg and establish the dynamic we see in the game. Joel's "resolution" to the situation could also showcase the fact that he is brutal and downright scary, and seeing him in that light could change the way Ellie behaves around him. It could also remind Joel that there's no reason he should let Ellie walk all over him, and that just because she's a kid doesn't mean she gets a pass to do and say whatever she wants.
Honestly, building up their relationship slightly, then shattering it entirely in this way might be the best thing for a long term payoff that builds throughout the series.
Home here now!
Bikes!
@Robert Shreder but all she does is make a weird face when joel punches that guard.
That may very well happen when she meets David.
@ Daniel S. Didn’t they show Joel’s brutality and life experience with the guard as they left the town?
Shouldn’t that have been the “scared straight” moment for Ellie..
I think they are rushing too much, leaving out a lot of Ellie and Joel time together and how much strong their father/daughter relationship grows over time.
@Bigg Chillin ….what…?
Yep. Instead we get entire eps dedicated to the explicit emasculation of classical male archetypes.
Yeah, I've tried to stick with the show, and I have nothing against the actors, but I am just not feeling that bond that Ellie and Joel had in the game. I don't really think it was necessary to make a show of it, because it does feel rushed, but I'm also not really watching it anymore so...
@Alexander Mitchell what for
@Jhin a blooming Flower man I dont know. How old are you?
Can't wait to see The Rock as Abby in season 2
Noice
Either The Rock or Terry Crews as Abby
Better Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson, he and Pedro Pascal are good friends :)
Gina Carano is way too feminine and not nearly physically built to take on that role... Maybe she could play a superhero or something, but definitely not the role of Abby... Is John Cena back from panda-ering to China yet? I'd reccomend him for a realistic portrayal... Although he's probably had too much laser body hair removal to complete the look 🤣
Yooooo 💯💯💯🤣😂🤣 I'm dead!!!
I think that despite the points being made by the drinker being accurate at the time it turns out that it was kinda nessisary for the pay off. Bella Ramsey plays a more realistic version of Ellie. Her cocky, eager and arrogant nature was just a facade to hide how powerless and scared she is which is most evident in episode 6 where she says she can't do this without Joel and her eagerness towards violence is also key as after killing David she realises that there's nothing cool about murder. There's just destruction. Also Bella Ramsey now plays the more optimistic Ellie after episode 3 which is an improvement. The only real criticism is that the show lacks action. In the Kansas section and David section they could've had more action.
@Gamer Forever like the Drinker said I was more invested in Henry and Sam (more side characters) than Ellie and what’s his name. So far I’d rather watch a show filled with the minor characters. Plus your point about episode six, Ellie comes off like an elite killing machine even despite the stupid mistakes the script has her make that should have caused her to die. Not to mention the cliches like the clever being right in arms reach and the fact not a single soul on the compound sees the fire happening therefore bringing reinforcements. Dumb episode.
@Dman I feel like the changes were a mixed bag. Some better and some weren't.
the Bill and Frank change was questionable. Bill was a representation of what Joel could become if he abandoned Ellie. However they also represent a reason why the world of the Last of Us is still worth living in but I prefer the og. The Cathleen and new Henry and Sam storyline was clear. It was SO much better than the games despite the games version being very good anyway. The change with Jackson was mixed. Hate how their portrayed as they are meant to be the hope of the World but I like how paranoid they are which would be interesting considering the events of the Last of Us 2. Hate how Maria is portrayed but I prefer how Tommy is portrayed as it made NO sense how much he hated Joel despite it being obvious that he was trying to keep them alive. I like how they made David an evil demon which makes his death more satisfying but the lack of ambiguity makes him much less creepy. The major complain with the changes is that they make the nature of the story much less ambiguous and much more up front which to me somewhat damages the overall story but they also use those changes to create amazing stories like Bill and Frank and the Kathline storyline.
@Gamer Forever it alters the story beats and makes them a lot more cringy. I can appreciate their attempt but it was unnecessary and lessened the impact.
@Dman again. What does the adaptation do wrong? The show was meant to show the last of us to an audience who haven't played the games or to re-experience the game for the players in a different form while improving some pre-existing problems the game had along the way. How did the show go wrong?
@Gamer Forever Its a bad adaptation
And thr game already was film-like.
Very unnecessary
Holy shit, fantastic video! This sums up my thoughts so far pretty much exactly. You absolutely nailed the character changes to Joel and Ellie to better fit the versions they gave us in part 2, but there's one piece about Ellie I feel you didn't fully address. You mentioned how she's capable, confident, and unflinching to the violence around her, but it's more than that. She's being portrayed as sadistic, likely to make her brutal revenge-fueled massacre across Seattle in season seem more believable. First she seems to find it "cool" when Joel beats that soldier to death, rather than disturbed or at all uncomfortable. In the first game, Ellie would often comment on Joel's brutality both in scripted moments and randomly during combat. And then when she kills the stalker in the basement, she slowly cuts into it with her knife before she puts it down. Neither of these are things Ellie would do in the first game
@Schaemia how are they “virtue signaling”?
Good point. I hate how they ruined Ellie's character.
@Pedro lechef and in doing so they are sadly making her character so 2D.
It should be that there are no "good guys" or "bad guys". Just people making realistic decisions. I feel the show is just turning the dial up to 100 with the virtue signaling; especially after the last episode. The game was much more nuanced in my view.
@Muyang Cheng She is 100% changed to fit TLOU2's Ellie.
They make her struggle against Joel to save Tess who is doomed anyway, she smells the gun she picks up and then observes psychotically as Joel is beating the soldier.
Ellie slowly cuts the forehead to observe how the fungus grow in the zombie's brain, not for some random sadistic pleasure....and given when you commented you've probably seen episode 4 already where Ellie was explicitly shown to hesitate before finally shooting someone to save Joel. The Ellie in the show and the Ellie in the game are both naïve and compassionate, just not in the same way. And I would argue that the show Ellie is not changed to fit part 2 (as a lot of whiners seems to believe so), but to fit the post-apocalyptic world more. The kid literally went to military school surrounded by kids who can't stop talking about resistance and rebellion while, simultaneously, never been outside the wall and never seen a real life-threatening zombie. If anything, the game Ellie is more explicitly naive and compassionate in the "wrong" way, I for one am glad that the show producers decided to change it up instead of following whatever the source material went with, it implies actual thought put into adapting it into actual screenplay.
I barely see Joel murdering a raider for Ellie let alone anyone else. Will love to see how they try and pull of this father-daughter bond because right now, it ain’t there, nor do I see the seeds of it.
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I didn’t think I could be the only one out there that felt this way about Ellie, but it’s still nice to be validated out loud 😂 She’s offered such a 2-dimensional performance so far and it worked well for GOT, but here her emotionally portrayable layers, or lack thereof, are on full display and it doesn’t work.
@sayhello2heaven being scared and straight up having anxiety attacks are 2 different things. Everybody is afraid, you'd be reckless idiot otherwise.
@Matth like it’s ok to be afraid, that is understandable given the circumstances. But to openly admit that he would have watched Ellie get mauled apart by a dog because he was so scared to do anything other than freeze up just takes him straight into coward territory. Like drinker said they’re just trying to retroactively change him to his pushover version of himself that was present in Part 2.
@Matth I agree. Very forced and not believable as far as Ramsey's acting imo. I think Pascal has done pretty well other than episode 6 (part of that is the script's fault tho).
@sayhello2heaven yes thank you, watching Joel getting anxiety attacks made me physically cringe. "Oh you should go without me Ellie I'm to weak. Waaah waaah"
I hated Ellie's casting to begin with, but there is just something off about how she delivers her lines, like it comes through so irritating and snarky it pisses me off.
@Obi-Wan Kenobi I think that as the series grew and it was time for Bella to step up as a actress she did so very well. I was very impressed with her performance in recent episodes, episode 8 specifically. What are your thoughts of tonights episode?
Having watched the latest episode I sadly agree with the drinker. Joel was dumbed down and turned into a scared bitter man. Basically they nerfed him so that the series will better link to the Joel from Part 2. It’s sad, they have such a well balanced story, I don’t mind Joel and Ellie’s small talk and of course they had to include new dialogue but every interaction shows Ellie as witty and funny while Joel is just grumpy.
(Ps i still can’t fully believe Bella Ramsey as Ellie, especially if we compare her to Ashley Johnson, she is on a whole another planet)
🏆📦DM ME👆👆❤️🎉..
@Julian his brutal and becomes protective over Ellie. I get what they saying about Joel from the series at this point i can't see this character pointing a gun at innocent people and killing them just so he can protect Ellie
Joel wiping the floor with Abby would be a subversion of expectations that absolutely everybody would get behind.
Could actually make for a riveting chase narrative where we repeatedly switch between Abby and Ellie and Joel
Nah, they rather playing Golf.
@Animezilla 44 it doesn't matter. If the person is going to be killed to find the cure you have to tell them that so they can make the decision with inormed consent.
It is in no way moral to lie to the person to trick hem into agreeing and then kill them to get a cure. That is completely and totally wrong. No abmiguity, it's not complicated that that is immoral. It's just as immoral as to take the person life by force without their permission, because that's exactly what they planned to do, they just did it in the most convenient way possible for their own psyche, by tricking her rather than ha ing to tie her down and murder her while she struggles to get away.
Plus they didn't even try anything that wouldn't have killed her. Did test her blood, her bone marrow, nothing. They just bumped straight to murder. Which if anything is just lazy writing.
But either what there's no ambiguity, the fireflies were in the wrong and the woman in the second game, hunting down Joel, she's getting revenge for her evil parents. She didn't bother to find out why her parents died she just wants blind revenge. So she is also in the wrong.
Really really really wanting something someone else has, is never justification for murder.
@G E the only reason they were going to kill Ellie was because she had the cure so you got to admit this is kind of complicated one hand I didn't want Elliot to die on the other hand this could have been the only chance to stop the disease
@kyotheman69 it was not that bad
This review is aging well already, particularly regarding Ellie calling the shots and ignoring Joel's orders.
I'm sorry but when does Ellie ever "call the shots" in this show. She's a bratty teen and has an attitude, but she's not giving Joel orders, lol.
Guys I think when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. This show wasn't that woke. I have a few gripes with the fact that all the "leader" characters they added that weren't in the game just haddd to be women unless they were evil military police or literal pedophiles, the "communism good" comment in the wyoming episode, and the random, forced panic attack scenes they made Joel do, but for the most part this was never done at the expense of the plot and we got one good season out of it with Joel's character completely intact.
ep 3 allready confirmed it. I cringed when bill refered to the gov as "nazi's" and the jackson community is communism ....
Just for the record, Pedro Pascal grew up, in part, in San Antonio, TX. As someone who grew up in neighboring Arkansas, I think his accent is pretty natural - not over the top or forced.
@Obi-Wan Kenobi Bro shut up Texans literally sound like everyone else in the US with a few syllables that some, SOME people still have a drawl with. I've traveled most of the US at this point and spent about a third of that time in Texas and neighboring states and pretty much everyone in the US sounds exactly the same except the deep south, which Texas is not. It's pretty safe to say at this point there's more of an American accent if anything.
Yeah tbh this video is a lot of cap, farming views from super reactive people who just want to baby rage about woke shit. I HATE woke writing but you're completely right like what is he talking about, when did Joel's accent change? What made Bella Ramsey's performance bad? I don't see it.
@Don a Texas accent isn't the same as other country accents.
I just finished season 1 finale
I really enjoyed most of this show.
I completely get why you were predicting the calm before the storm, which is a understandable in modern TV and movies..
However after watching this, I was pleased to see how close it held to the source material. I'm looking forward to your Post Season review. Thanks for the work you put into the Industry.
🏆DM ME👆📦.
Having finished the first season, I can say that any fan of the game should watch it. It recreates many of the beats from the game, while also adding context to certain situations that is definitely welcome. It's faithfully done, especially since the director of the game has such a big role in making it. I want to play the second game now before season 2 is released because I have high hopes for this series.
Just an advance warning, the second game is awful. Not gameplay wise, but the story is so bad that it makes it hard to keep playing.
This is why I'm worried about the second season. How often do we get a good series adapted from bad source material?
Your criticisms of Ellie are spot on and can be explained by the current zeitgeist post the game's release in 2013. Every leading woman in a film or TV show has to be strong and independent. On top of that they are all smart and thus in charge, as they should be according to the current year. Men are stupid and erratic, unless they are black in which case they are heroes and also smart (but not as smart as the women).
@Turd Rocket Btw Ad hominem really doesn't help your case here. It just solidifies your case of denying and reflection.
@Turd Rocket Again, what did I say what you didn't say? I didn't even accuse you of anything. I even asked if you are for real arguing for a better looking actress on an underaged role. I didn't accuse you of anything. You said it and I asked if you are serious about it. I gave my reasons why I don't like casing adult models for children roles. You are yet to answer why you would even argue that, no you start to deny saying it in the first place. Where is the logic in that? You want to see an attack where there is none. If I wanted to attack that view instead of chalenging it, but now you are arguing that I wasn't even in the conversation? This is apublic comment section. If you don't want to answer about anything you write, then don't write it instead of denying it afterwards.
@Turd Rocket And you aren't just using strawmen and assuming things? Nahhhh, the woke crowd is out to get you bro. You get what you give.
The audience drop off in season 2 is going to be legendary
@MacGyver You hitting that copium hard. Last of Us II was complete trash. There were themes in the game that other games achieved far better for example the whole “revenge is bad” message was done 10x better in Red Dead 2.
I really hope they change things at that point. I like things being faithful but tlou2 was an insult to fans
@Crow Zero Same goes for the first game tbh. Story wasn't that good or innovative too. Only thing it had that was really a lot better than a lot of games of its time was how they portrayed the relationship between joel and ellie. Wasn't innovative too, we have seen this story told a lot of times in movies, but it was just really well exectued in that game, and games usually don't depict emotional relationships that well visually.
@MacGyver 🤣🤡
This is one of those cases where I actually got lucky. In a vacuum, having not played the games (always meant to get around to it but never had the time), the show has been pretty good. Especially compared to a lot of the trash that many networks have been pushing.
I am kind of curious how the hell they made it from Boston all the way to Kansas city without any problems, but I am also curious why they went that route in the first place when they were going to Wyoming.
As an aside in reality in that scenario I’d get a boat from Boston sail it to New Orleans then up the Mississippi to Missouri before embarking on the zombie gauntlet.
So finish watching the show before playing? Like seeing an adapted movie before reading the book, because the book is always better.
Just watch someone play the game. I watched my friend play. Cause he's good at them. It was like a move for me.
You should play the game man, everything you like about the show, you will love from the game. So much stuff done beautifully better.
R.I.P. Annie Wersching! Your voice in the game helped make this game a legend!!
She was just 45 😢 Played Tess 10 years ago at 35.
Holy shit!!!
I didn't know until I found out until reading this comment. She was amazing as Tess
Bro was right :( they nerfed Joel so bad
Thus show made me replay the game. It's better than I remember. At least that will always be there..I was lucky enough to play the original completely fresh. I knew nothing of it until my brother threw tue disc at me and DEMANDED i play it. One best game experiences ever. Period
First time I have disagreed with a review. Having said that have not played the game. I think Ellie is well written given what she has gone through. I don’t find her annoying nor overconfident. I think she is flawed, her overconfidence gets her into trouble. She is also seeking someone who gives a shit about her, and despite Joel being a cold prick, wants him to be that person. It’s quite sad. Their relationship, her as the daughter he lost, him as the family she wants develops over the show and is well handled. Joel is a strong character and comes across as uninterested in her as a person to begin with. He is actually a man of few words, stoic - something you said was missing from the modern entertainment output today. Ellie says a lot but it doesn’t mean he gives a shot about what she says. Gone off a bit early on the bullshit detector there. I agree episode three was excellent and no bad thing not to try to follow the game too closely.
I can't wait to see Terry Crews as Abby in season two
Yup. he's not even going to have dialogue just keep doing that pec bouncing thing he does.
Spiderman no way home< yes really great!
Considering that a black doctor was retconned from the first game in order to crowbar in the faceless character that is supposed to be Abby's dad in 2, that would actually be less weird than whatever the fuck 2 was supposed to be.
I laughed at this for 10 mins
I need terry crews in more new stuff before he gets too old to be a believable big scary muscle guy.
Having only just found "TCD" I am absolutely delighted to find someone whose frank, accurate and beautifully grumpy reviews are always bang on the money. My only question for you is this.... How did you not want to destroy the actor who plays the character of Kathleen with the psychotic hatred of Henry? Surely one of the worst portrayals of a good person turned bad ever made.
@Just another Gopnik She has more depth than that, in my opinion. I see her as a broken person who lost her only connection to reality; her brother. You can see from her discourse that she heavily suffered seeing her people oppressed by Fedra. On both occasions where she is talking to collaborators, she mentions how her people were tortured and killed, not only er brother. She genuinely felt that, to the point of not being capable of feeling anymore (something that almost happened to Joel). When she asks Henry if Sam is worth everything, it's a very honest and loaded question: she actually means everything. In her perspective, Henry deprived everyone, not just her, of Michael. He took away from her people someone who would guide them to freedom and wellbeing. To keep Sam alive, Henry jeopardized years of a more pacific revolution that could have resulted in a much better situation for her whole people. Henry doomed everybody of a more fruitful, healthy outcoming. Michael was the man with the kindness, integrity, morality, and (in her eyes) a world without him has lost all reasons for these virtues to exist.
Of course, she IS a lunatic and a very bad leader. I'm not denying that. I just think she has more layers than that.
I don't know, she always seemed evil to me, it was her brother that was the good one and who kept her in check, but since he's gone and she's the next one in the chain of command, then she gets all that power and no one to stop her from squandering it on something so fruitless and stupid like putting all the blame on a man and his mute deaf brother and hunting them down instead of dealing with the actual imminent threat.
My favorite part of TLOU is hands down the start of the infection. Playing that at night with a large glass door nearby will make you paranoid real quick
I really hope they try to make Abby likable for season 2 or when Part 2 will be adapted. Instead of just having her jump in and kill Joel and then force us to see what kind of person she was like before then as some excuse to get us to care, I'd rather they meet and build a close connection, a relationship, until she ultimately finds out that Joel is the one who killed her father, leaving her with conflicted emotions, a sense of betrayal, and unsure of what to do: Take revenge or get more answers.
An alternative would be that instead of killing Joel, she ends up beating him into a coma, only barely rescued by Tommy and other members from the scouting party. While he's in recovery and comatose, Ellie goes to chase down Abby for answers. She ultimately attempts to reason with members of Abby's group in order to get close to her, but when they refuse and attack her, she resorts to killing as many of them as possible to get to her as soon as she can, doing much of what she did in the game in the process. Once she finally reaches Abby, she ultimately realizes she still plans to kill Joel in retaliation. After a last conflict, Ellie manages to kill Abby. By the time she gets back to Jackson, Joel has regained consciousness and asks Ellie if she's okay and what happened. Ellie lies and tells Joel that Abby and her group won't be coming back, and swears. Joel, much like Ellie at the end of Part 1, knows she's lying, but accepts her swear.
For the alternative, instead of Joel's actions being done out of selfishness as Part 2 says, rather than it being an impossible choice as Part 1 depicts, Joel's actions remain grey, and while the conflict between him and Ellie still happens, he has the evidence showing that they've already done tests on others with no success, meaning she would've been another failed test subject. Regardless, she's left with conflicting emotions and some unwillingness to come to terms with such a realization. After she kills Abby, she realizes what Joel had to do, and while she doesn't completely forgive him, she still comes to terms with it and accepts it.
Thanks for watching 💓
Dm me i gat a package for you☝️
I don’t really agree with this assessment of Joel in the show. He’s actually very capable and tells Ellie what to do. He lost his cool once when he had his PTSD triggered, but that’s about it. I think he’s great.
Joel isn't as capable as he was in the game. HBO Joel used the assault rifle very ineffectively against the Clickers. It should have been an easy victory. Assault rifles are very powerful. Joel used it like a novice. In the game, Joel and friends had to fight the Clickers using revolvers, a much less powerful weapon. He's less in charge and Ellie is overconfident. Joel's character has been diluted. HBO is making Joel a less 'cool' character because they are trying to avoid the Season 2 backlash when Joel gets murdered. They are making changes to his character to make him less likeable. Go and compare Joel's reaction to Tess being bitten in the game to the show. Joel has a much more sympathetic and grieving reaction to learning that Tess was bitten.
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Never played the game and generally a bit of a miserable bar steward, but after watching 6 episodes, I've enjoyed the series so far and found the burgeoning relationship of Joel and Ellie quite touching.
@Aravind Pradhyumnan John isn't the sharpest knife in the cupboard.
@John Doe I'm not paying any attention to you, that's for sure. It's obviously gone whoosh over you head.
The game is definitely better, but the show does a very good job of bringing the game to life.
I'd recommed the show to anyone who doesn't play video games, because it tells a good story and is smartly written.
From what I've seen of the show so far it won't measure up to the game, not even close.
Even if you just watch a play through of both games you'll get a better sense of the plot, the characters and the relationships / bonds that are made over what appears to be more naturally paced progression.
Sad to read that folks having viewed the show and not the game struggle to understand the relationship between Joel and Ellie. This was core to the story, have they really messed up this much?
Some characters from the show are nothing like from the game.. TV show Ellie is getting a lot of praise but from what I've seen she's not like the original character in the slightest. Just a girl too young trying too hard to appear like an angry/difficult teenager
@John Doe Eh it's not that hard. It's an orphan who wants a badass dad and wants to be like him and a man wanting to not fail his daughter again. Works for most of us watching the show.
This is definitely one of the times where we would prefer the adaptation go its own route rather than be faithful to the source material. Rare indeed.
@@tlf2818 no its not subjective. Say I made a movie filming a shit I took and 1 person actually liked it, that doesn't make it a good movie. There are certain factors you can point out which make a quality piece of entertainment . If a show or movie has bad acting or cgi, a couple ppl enjoying it doesn't make it good
@fudgepacker Art and entertaining aren't subjective? This is new to me. And to a lot of people, I guess. I wrote a poem once that tackled a very personall experience of mine and put it on instagram. Two friends came to me saying how much they identified with the sentiment and how they saw themselves in it. It genuinely confused me, since I saw that my intimate reason for writing it would actually turn it hermetic. But, you know, maybe, just maybe, different people, with different backgrounds, experiences and so on, could actually see different things in the same piece of art. I won't even expect for you to regard this. At this point, I'm just considering things myself. Goodbye. It was actually fun discussing this topic, but it ran its course.
@J Him and everybody who agrees. You are probably "they" and that's fine as well. Relax now, you're safe, everybody knows you are not "we".
who tf is "we"?
@@tlf2818 the quality of movies and shows isn't subjective
brillantly explained, I agree 100%. You captured all the points and detailed them perfectly for viewers to understand.
6:16 - 6:44
Oh how E8 'When We Are In Need' would change your mind on Bella Ramsey's Ellie.
Because *holy crap* did she knock her performance out of the park!
Yeah I also felt like she got the job done. Nothing to write home about but as far as convincing us of the Ellie they wrote for the show (which is admittedly a little different but not unrecognizable) she did a fantastic job. Drinker got this one wrong tbh.
@LK HartlyLion honestly I'm so confused why people are saying she can't act and doesn't give a captivating performance, ep 8 was the icing on the cake for her character with her acting displaying how someone would realistically react in a situation like that
I know right? episode 4 and 5 were the episodes where I was assured that her character is going down the right path, but damn episode 8 was really good.
Yep, they openly make him weak in the latest episode and they also make communism look nice. “The message” seems to transcend the plot. It’s a shame, it’s not a bad show.
@Julian Oy vey, stop flirting and buy me a drink already
🏆📦DM ME👆👆❤️🎉..
Bella Ramsay as Ellie is one of weirdest casting choices I've seen in a while. For a character with such a central part it's hard to care at all about her.
@TheGamingHydra She's got no charisma and is pretty mediocre at acting. Just my opinion, it's okay to disagree.
Why? I thought she's doing great
🎁🎁🎁🎁🖖🏽👆👆👆👆
I went into this show without having played the game and I STILLI had the same impressions about Joel. His relationship with Ellie almost immediately feels like Obi Wan and Leia in "Kenobi". Another perfect example of a formally smart, confident, capable man being watered down for the sake of his female counterpart (no matter how much younger and inexperienced she is). The most obvious example is when Ellie first begins saving Joel left and right. The real kicker was when she was captured by the "cult" guy. She manages to escape by killing the leader and his right hand only for Joel to show-up afterwards and give her a hug. After killing the two guys in the house, Joel literally could've have gone back to the basement and took a nap and everything would have been fine. Even with that, I mostly enjoyed the show. From a technical standpoint it's very well done. I actually like Ellie and the actresses portrayal of her but again, I don't have the game character to weigh her against. I did not like the way it ended. I remember putting my head down going, "It was all for nothing." If there is a season 2 I probably won't bother.
🎁🎁👆👆👆..
They need to cast the Mountain as Abbey so we can have a GOT reunion. That way when she gets a birdie with Joel it will feel complete.
This is the way
Spiderman no way home< yes really great!
nooooooooo 😭😭😭
lmao
We would need at least two Mountains for a realistic Abby if we are staying true to the games, but yes, I agree that would be great!
I loved the beginning of the 2nd episode with the Jakarta outbreak had me hooked right then and there. I think I will wait until it’s all out to finish though
But drinker, you loquacious lush, why did you have to go and show me the problems with the writing? Now I can never un-see them!
But really…
Coming into the show as someone who knows nothing of the video game, I’ve really enjoyed it. Ellie is the weakest character but I’m not sure I saw Joel the way you think they are intending to portray him. Coming in cold, as I have, I see Joel as a survivor, someone who has failed to protect those he loves and is now burdened with the responsibility to protect someone he does not like, an irresponsible, irritating kid (cause you know, those aren’t common or anything/s). I dunno, I’m still holding onto hope that the story continues to be well written and well performed. There really hasn’t been an episode with Joel and Ellie alone yet. I think the next one will establish the bond that you refer to and, hopefully, endear us to Ellie a bit. Time will tell.
Just finished season one. Whole thing was good from start to finish minus a few divergences for wokeness which didn't trample the plot as is so often the case. No one is wrong for liking this show.
Just my opinion, but the show has only gone downhill since episode 5.
I literally cried playing the second game. Not because of um… what happens to him… but because of how much of a bitch they made him 😢
Second game was hot garbage and I refuse to accept it as cannon.
Abby is looming like an iceberg in the future of the series.
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Unfortunately the trouble ahead has arrived. Just tried to make it through episode 7 and I don’t know if I can recover. Joel was weak, dying, giving up while a clearly fatherless Ellie was cussing, drinking, beating up a girl twice her size, and was completely annoying. The confident independent woman trope is now trickling down to little girls.
real
Can’t wait to see Dwayne Johnson as Abby in season 2 😂
@M McCord Oh right you hang out with 10 year Olds
Terry Crews has my vote
Spiderman no way home< yes really great!
Stolen
You'd like to think they take some of the criticism of the 2nd game into consideration but it will be difficult to change the narrative enough to make people happy. Perhaps the best that can be hoped for is that s.1 ends at an appropriate point that will feel like a close for some who don't want to watch s.2
But in these people's minds, the criticism of the game comes from "right-wing trolls". So they're invalid.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on Survivors (the original BBC series). It's low-budget, of course, but the first season is packed with good storytelling and (a bonus in these cliched times) the drama has no need for zombies.
@Alfred Lear This made me want to watch it. Thanks.
@Alfred Lear I got the first season a few years ago for Christmas. Hadn't seen it since it was first broadcast but it was even better than I remembered. Now you've mentioned those highlights (especially the kangaroo court) I need to watch the whole series again!
Oh and Brian Blessed as the leader of the crossbow gang!
Freaking awesome!
He won't have seen it.
The remake was poor.
Terry Nation's original, the 70s one, all on Clip-Share, is a masterpiece.
Love it all, I even own the dvds (remember them).
From mercury poisoning, a star court (that gets it's judgement wrong), rabid dogs, windmills, smallpox, rebuilding train networks, general farming, stress on relationships, children growing, vets as surgeons, the London illness and Greg's petrol coupons.
It's pure quality through and through.
They don't make them like they used to ...
In the game characters would ask why none of this world is affecting her? And then her experience with David really pulls her into reality. I've always liked your content but it seems no matter what nothings ever good enough 😕
They don't want to make Joel too likable or strong because of the inevitable sendoff that will most likely trigger a big part of the non-videogame playing audience this series has. Then again, Pascal already has experience having his head smashed into an unrecognizable mess so maybe they can live with it too.
Can’t wait to see the Rock portray Abbey in part two.
Lolol
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That part where Galadriel showed up in her shining armor to easily save Joel and Ellie from the clickers was awe inspiring
Well, let me assure you that you have seen nothing because (spoilers!) you just wait until the next time they're in deep shit and suddenly its Morbin time!
@capn bdub I'm not watching shit. I know what happens in the later season. Here is an actual spoiler: Joel gets killed by She-Man and we are all suppose to root for her/him/it.
@Pax Gamer Bill was always gay and seeing his "partner", as he called him in the game, hanging from a rope when Joel and Bill were arguing before they noticed him was a hard hitting moment. The hurt on Bill's face pointing out the bite marks on Frank making it obvious why he took his own life and the letter he leaves Bill is so harsh.
The series completely does a nose dive into the deep end of the woke pool in all the most boring ways. They took all the parts they got right sent them in a wrong direction, and they were the parts I really liked😕, so why ruin them about the most interesting character in the game.
The problem is Druckmann has a very FU mentality cus he never got free reign on the original game.
He has gone back on his own words in way you can think of, he even said he wanted people to be upset about brutally and wrongfully, killing a purposefully neutered version of Joel, all of which he admitted to. then complained about the backlash after not getting the success that he wanted, which is something he also wanted. 🤨 What the fuck?
All of the above paragraph isn't my opinion it's what he came out and, said, wrote, lied and gone back on all by himself. It's a perfect example of what happens when you ignore your advisers. PR nightmare!
Just being curious here. Have you played the game yourself?
@MikeDchy yeahhhh, i just don't think have queer characters is a problem. it's weird and sad to find that a problem.
@Pax Gamer No. Maybe a shit load of people used it, and yes it may be a little bit dead that's true.
But it's strange how we pick up on these things after a few months, yet people like Druckmann seem to miss that point after 7 miserable years of the same sh¡th mistakes, which is all we have left to today!
I glad drinker doesn't just hate stuff because of a certain portrayal. I was starting to think maybe he just hates a certain subject matter. But maybe hes just critical of how it's pushed for political reasons. I think frank and bills peice was amazing. So we'll acted and written and a good deviation from the game. It's awesome u can just be objective and it's not just a general dislike for anything in this area of life. They took some risks here but they also did it well and put some effort into it and weren't lazy. Great episode
Bella criticism aged like milk, like every week since this video she's only gotten better.
I'm already prepared not to bother with the 2nd season but if it does turn out better then I'll eventually binge watch it.
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Like you I am very into this show but not yet "hooked", so to speak. However, while it has been been quite some time since I played the game, I remember very clearly that the moment I realized how much I had been drawn in was when the perspective switched to Ellie. I remember being in that deep snow trying to shoot this stupid deer with a bow and arrow so Joel doesn't die and thinking "wow, we've really come a long way from Boston." It's hard to put into words but I remember having a strong feeling of "scale" at that moment. Like I was really feeling how long the journey had been, how much distance had been covered, and how much had changed. I also clearly remember the first time that Ellie killed an infected, the fact that she was shocked, but in a somewhat ambiguous way, and remember how vaguely uncomfortable it was to watch her become a good killer. Like, "ok, this young person has been damaged now which probably means I'm being a bad adult".
Given that they have left Boston I guess we won't be getting the mall scene from the DLC with Ellie and (I forget her name) unless it is a future flashback. That scene absolutely blew me away with its humanity.
Update: I'm definitely hooked now.
episode 7 is titled Left Behind btw
No, we're totally getting that mall scene with Riley. They've been building up to it and the scene of Ellie and Riley posing for pictures was in the trailer.
Here after watching episode 4. I think they showed Ellie’s playful and vulnerable side really well in this episode. She’s not being portrayed as “smarter” or “stronger” than Joel. After she shot that guy, you could tell she was distraught.
I think they got Joel right in 1 scene. I believe it was the 1st episode (I could be wrong), when he was standing on a building corner, waiting for Tess to finish meeting with an informant. A firefly recruiter shows up and does the whole “if you’re lost in the dark…” but then Joel cuts him off and retorts, “if you say ‘look for the light’ I’ll break your jaw”. If they made Joel like that entirely, 150% better of a show
@MK Ultra he’s Chilean. Not even the same continent ffs. Also did you ever think for a second perhaps the mom could have been black?
@Maryam Dadar lol your factually incorrect comment got hidden. Go back to your safe space.
Yeah. Show-Joel feel different, but I guess it's all a different interpretation from the game overall.
Mr. Robot is the greatest show ever created. Would love to see Drinker do a review video on it.
sheesh coming back to this video, your prediction was absolutely accurate.
I couldn't finish the last episode, it's absolute trash.
You were right man
Looks like Drinker might be right on this one, after watching episode six it's clear this series has a huge looming Bella Ramsey problem. How is she going to carry two series? She has been rewritten to be bloody insufferable in this series and Joel is too weak, (spoilers) literally having a panic attack, but guess what Ellie is a "natural" despite living her whole life in the QZ. Having just finished the game, it's jarring, but clearly this is an Ellie show not a Joel show, perhaps to try and make series two and three more believable. Episode three did make me cry, though!
@desertuser Her acting is fine, I think the character is just bad. My opinion but the bonding in episode 6 felt really forced. She was humanized a bit in episode 7 but I didn't really believe the Joel/Ellie bond in 6 - maybe half because there didn't seem to be a natural progression and half because I don't like the character.
Episode 8 just cemented the feeling that she's a complete psychopath, like even David figured that out about her from just a brief pointed conversation 😂 but his motivation for keeping her alive was generally illogical and wasn't explained well...
Tbh not sure I'd care if they sacrificed this Ellie for the vaccine, which is world's away what I felt for the game character 🤷🏻♂️ I avoided part 2 but sounds like she was turned into a murdering psychopath in that, so I suppose it makes sense to build up to that now.
I'm all in on Bella now, still can't see how she carries other seasons, but she's been great in episode 7 and 8.
@TheXNuahs I'm almost coming around to Bella Ramsey! I really enjoyed the latest episode and finally thought she captured innocence Ellie had at the start of the game. Having said that the DLC really did retcon Ellie and it does throw off the start of the game somewhat.
So basically the adaptation started off good but now I kind of want to stop watching based on the latest 2 episodes
My same thoughts as you and the way Ellie talked to Maria and you, you'd think she was some kind of 10 year experience lawyer or something
I hate what they've done to Joel's character over the newer incarnations. In the original game he was so human. He never made the "right" choices, in fact he did some pretty questionable things but if we're honest with ourselves I bet any one of us would make the same choices if it came to it. That's what I loved about his character, he was an anti-hero but so relatable.
Eeeh, I don't know if I quite agree all the way. To me, it seems more like Ellie is trying to project herself as confident and brave to hide her fear and insecurity rather than actually being brave and confident. When she leads the conversations with Joel, it's less that Joel is being passive, and more that Joel doesn't want to talk in the first place and Ellie is going out of her way to try to get him to open up. Maybe I'm just biased in its favor because of the game, but I still have hope for the show
I think it's not that the actress Bella Ramsey who can't portray a good Ellie, it's the directors and writers that are pushing her characterization to be an obnoxious out-of-character audience insert. Given the correct direction and writing, she could deliver a good performance of Ellie that is more realistic and faithful to the game.
@Jay H Who cares about realistic? People that tune in to watch the series are mostly faithful fans of the TLOU game and they want to see an accurate, consistent portrayal of the characters in the game.
If the HBO version of Ellie looks like Humpty Dumpty and speaks with a British accent, that simply doesn't cut it. I don't know what else to tell you.
@Anurag Chakraborty That's a smaller problem than the direction that they have taken with her character. She just looks average and that's more realistic in a way.
Jesus! About time someone says it! I feel like I've been going crazy! Everyone is raving about how good it is and I'm like " are we watching the same show?"
Well, people are allowed to have different opinions after all
I agree with everything you said but in the end a lot of love was put into this show and so far I got high hopes especially for episode 4
Thanks for watching 💓
Dm me i gat a package for you☝️
Yes, watched a few clips and was surprised she didn't find a lightsabre and automatically knew how to use it better than anyone.
Raul Julia doing Street Fighter for his kids while he was sick was probably one of the coolest, sweetest, most dad things ever. Thank you for taking the moment to find a reason to put him in your video.
@newtpondskipper
Not just a class act but a class act to the end.
I highly doubt I (or many others) could do what he did.
Spiderman no way home< yes really great!
@John Doe I agree. He was a class act.
@newtpondskipper
I still definitely think he gets a lot of credit for defining what Gomez as a character looked,sounded and acted like.
Him and Christina Ricci as Wednesday are two of the most iconic parts in those movies. Though the entire cast is fantastic.
But still I respect the heck out of the man for knowing he was dying and still finishing this role to get cash for his family.
Even as he was so close to the end he gave this movie his all.
For that alone I have to respect him so deeply. Yeah it's not the best role to end on but rarely do actors get that luxury.
It is still painful that he will be remembered for that being his last movie when he redefined Gomez Adam's.
ellie is bold and brash and acts independently all the time in the game what are you talking about?? she literally yells at bill and joel bout how she knows how to pop a clutch and drives a car away from the infected so idk where in the game she was this inexperienced child with no idea what’s going on outside the walls
Thats what im saying
Bit late to this and dont know your opinion of the newer episodes, but i think you take ellie's reactions way too much at face value. I absolutely saw emotion in how Ellie killed that infected trapped in the basement of that building. She was scared at the possibility of it attacking, but was excited to take the opportunity to prove she could at least do *something*.
See the game had banters besides the cutscenes to make the relationship of Joel and Ellie more constructed and based. But the writers on the show seems to be too distracted to show different factors and characters in the show that will play a part the later episodes that they rush the core reason of this whole show; Joel and Ellie's relationship. Joel was able to become a father again and learn to care, and Ellie turned into a competent survivor and learned to be the strongest person of herself. And Drinker's right, if they go with story format and personality of the TLOU part 2... I'm also worried about the future of this show as well.
Another series with the message built in
WELP, I'm here from the future to tell you that you unfortunately called it. Joel is a weak, emasculated, dumbed down, husk of what we all know him from in the first game. And there is no relationship between Joel and Ellie, just two people next to each other that appear to be more in competition or comparison the entire series.
📦DM ME👆♥️🎉..
There's better ba a 5 minutes in each episode where Joel upgrading his gun on a random convenient workbench 😆🤣
@ADIDASects
Or just stands there idle in one spot for several minutes because the "player" went to the toilet. Then just continues without any explanation lol
LOL. You know how hard I would laugh if like, three times an episode he walks off the given path like 10 feet to pick up a bunch of screws...and never explains himself.
@Taco Smuggler Most of the game play was exploring relatively linear but very detailed levels and either taking down or avoiding various enemies.
@Machineface Waterson I blame it on the Wu Flu
@Taco Smuggler gay play *
Oh man I'm worried about how they will portray the ending of season 1 when Joel rescues Ellie from the hospital
I have some very mixed feelings on this show. On one hand I love seeing the story from the game brought to life but on the other there are those cracks beginning to show. As well as the looming spectre of season 2.
Part of why I never played those games is because of how much I hate the escort missions in every game that uses them. Since the entirety of that first game was supposed to be an escort mission I said no to the whole thing. After reading the story for the second game I kind of felt vindicated in my belief that it would suck.
I feel the same way about the ellie acting but haven't commented on it to my friends because it's a young person and she's probably doing her best with the casting and all. Plus she looks nothing like her, but that's a curse with a lot of roles.
I think we all know it's only good because the network it is on... 1/2 of the shows are pretty decent on the network. and my co-workers who are diverse LOVE this show, which just slams home what you've been saying all along. my black co-worker says now she's into the video game too, watches the show with her kids and family and now plays the game with them!
Movie makers need to listen to real people not the "culture war" American politicians and corporations have largely created to divide us around anything except fighting together to end problems in the world.
CONGRATULATIONS ♥️
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Reach out to claim your prize 🎁❤️.......
Unrelated, but hey Drinker, can we get a shoutout for, of all the goddamn things, Puss in Boots showing how to put life into animated cinema again? How to make male heroes humbled, but then again empowered? How to both write and show an imposing villain? And reminding people of how important values of friendship and family are? I still can't wrap my damn head around how Dreamworks dragged this corpse of a franchise up and then had the balls to somehow actually nail the production on it.
The Puss in Boots movie was more woke than the Last of Us. Puss didn't need to have a random panic attack and Kitty Softpaws has him completely neutered pretty much the entire time she's on screen. If you want to talk about female characters upstaging male leads it's actually a pretty good example.
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You’ll notice that TV show Ellie hasn’t had any moment of weakness yet, no tears, no panicked reactions or helpless situations. She’s been made to look invulnerable which, unfortunately makes any character slightly unlikeable from a viewer perspective as there is nothing to relate to with her.
@Danno6287 yes. Yes she is
@epgamer Is she still a Mary Sue?
i mean watch episode 4, she was great
@BenGSynth Music nope
@epgamer
Is relatability a must for good writing though? Isn't that somewhat confined?
i had a completely different take on TLOU1 joel tbh. yes he is very capable, more than most, but not invincible. If you recall, Tess was the 'leader' in their little gang and elle actually saves him from that hunter. They work together opening doors and stuff and like i said elle gives combat support too, also outside of the cutscenes. The game wouldnt be the same if you couldnt mow down dosens of enemies but they wanted you to feel tense and scared of being overwhelmed or left without resources. So the worriying traumatised joel of the show fits perfectly i think.
Elle is very different and i think the writers want to take her in a bit different direction. She's seeing all this violence around her and therefore learns that violence is the only way to be safe. its not normal for a 14 year old to coldly murder something, even if its a zombie. She's fucked up and turning into a psychopath which i think is a cool element to explore. that would also explain a bit more the insane lenghts she goes to in pt2.
and yeah ep 3 was super good, completely agree
It’s possible that I’m lucky enough to have played the game so long ago that I don’t clearly remember the characters so when I watched the show, it seemed familiar enough to not bother me. I liked it.
Looks like you were right
🏆📦DM ME👆👆❤️🎉..
I agree about what was said about the character or Ellie, but I wouldn’t put that down to Bella’s acting abilities. The character seems to have been written in a certain way (maybe playing into Ramsey’s style?).
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Did you get Joel and Tommy mixed up? Tommy is a former soldier
Really ? He seemed a bit pussy whipped imo :) (Not played the game)
The thing that made Bella Ramsey good in GoT is how this little kid had a deadpan, monotone, authoritative kind of attitude you wouldn’t expect coming out of a kid. That’s a problem here, because Ellie is a very vibrant and expressive character.
@Kuhan Block Her casting was unnecessary. His comment was objectively true.
@Dimer Camparini beautifully said, roasted that CRT fanatic over a bonfire.
@Dimer Camparini And I can guarantee that Ellie will get a girlfriend in the next couple of episodes, or flashbacks to her and Riley...
@crazy silly "A BIG difference between being ‘implied’ and being ‘out and proud and rubbing it in your face'"
Exactly!
Modern woke authors wouldnt know "subtlety" and a "nuance" even if it's put under their noses...
They are just: "tick this box in the most evident and blatant way so our modern audience can praise and applaud us on twitter for our stunning and brave attitude!"
@Giltley Rage He would have been too old even when the game came out, actually.
In the light of episodes 4 and 5, has your view of Bella's acting changed? Would you agree that the Joel/Ellie relationship is evolving organically and in accordance with their relationship in TLOU 1?
@jamesparra2821 I've played the game many times and am playing it again right now...just about to take on the first bloater. I respectfully disagree. The show is wonderful and adds layers that, good as the game us, improve improve the storytelling. Just my opinion of course.
Replay the game this show doesn't hold a candle to the story in terms of emotion or pacing it's a fine mediocre TV show but unfortunately they've put in the world of the last of us and compared to what came before it's atrocious.
I never played the game. The show had me in episode one but it has started to waver. Spot on about the side characters in episode 3 but i would have liked to have seen more of Joel and Tess, too.
nahhhh the show never wavered.. What are you talking about?
🎁🎁👆👆👆...
Some issues here. Joel wasn’t a former soldier and he also seems very skilled with guns. I don’t think hitting a charging superhuman fungus beast that wants to tear you apart limb from limb is going to be a clean shot, and him “losing control” is a great way for them imo, to humanize him and add some layers of severe PTSD to his character. In real life people aren’t killing machines like video game pro tags and him having knee pain, PTSD and signs of aging is a great way to add more layers of depth to him that aren’t easy to pull of with the constraints of games. As for him meandering through scenes as you put it, I don’t really see how. He’s terrified of connecting with anyone else after the losses he’s been dealt and he seems genuinely unable to relate to other people in any way which makes him seem even more emotionally broken. All valid complaints I suppose but I disagree
I don’t understand how you can mess this up. The characters are already there. Acting in the game, showing all emotions . It’s not like the actors need to read off a script and use their imagination. The image is literally in front of them. Just copy what you see don’t change the character. Sarah was amazing on episode one and gave me hope for the series
I think Ellie should be given more time because her story gives me the "cocky teenager that has been through shit but doesn't actually fully gasp the gravity of the situation" vibes. Have you seen teenagers that have seen messed up shit or lived it? They have a fake confidence that stems from the false belief that hardship=wisdom and experience and are completely oblivious to how naive they are. Ellie for example, thinks death, zombies and gun battles are cool, without having been in one and I am curious if they'll just make her "the cool independent teenager" or actually show reality hit her when she finally fully understands what's happening, such as taking a human life or making hard decisions.
I don't mind Joel being "emasculated" as he is definitely a way broken man in the TV show than the game. Bill and Frank's story shows that the series is reimagining of the game. In the game, Bill is more unhinged and his relationship with Frank is pretty much a punchline ending with Ellie finding gay porn magazines. Here, it's actually compelling and way better! Also, Pedro is fucking nailing it in this bitch. Not just the delivery, but the expressions as well, the subtle stuff, like how he answers quickly and to the point, shutting Ellie off during that scene in the collapsed block.
Bella Ramsey is my ickyness with the show. It's weird, cuz it's as if she's always close to giving a decent delivery but it's like she's too tired/disinterested in going the final few metres to get there. Which creates this weird situation where Ellie's actions and words say (fake) confidence while her delivery says apathic and angsty.
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I think the problem with Ellie is the same with every teen character in pos apocalyptic settings: they are generally annoying and you want them to die so the adults don’t have to constantly save them from themselves
@Nom that's not how it played out in the game at all or in the show
@Timberwolf Mountaineer if they change actresses, all the haters of Bella Ramsey are going to love the new actress. All bc it’s not Bella
Ellie hasn't really needed saving by Joel in two episodes though. He needed to save her ass with the soldier guy in Episode 1, but since then... no, not really at all. It's actually kind of a narrative problem how little she's seemingly needed his help.
I'm not sure what you're talking about.
@Ryan Wilson That's a different question. meanwhile actress is getting the hate, that's a simple fact.
And with this going the "older Ellie" will get even more hate, whoever will be unfortunate enough to play her.
No matter how competent they are, adaptations like this almost always come off as kind of hollow to me. Like, I already know these characters so to see them like this almost comes off to me like I'm watching cosplayers instead of watching the actual characters themselves. It's kind of weird.
I feel like there are three camps of people who watch this show, those who have never played the game, those who have played the game but don't quite remember it, and those who played the game and have a pretty good memory of what happens.
If you take any of the iconic scenes from the game and play it side-by-side with this show then hands down you will see better dialogue, acting, and facial expressions from a game that was made for the PS3 then you would from this dumpster fire of a show.
If you want to see just how trash the changes and acting in this show then watch episode 6, and then watch the games version of when he meets up with His brother tommy.
This show is disappointing trash.
🏆📦DM ME👆👆❤️🎉..
Based take. Perfectly said.
Why are all the characters hatable only Joel , Tess, Tommy were the only likeable ones.
📦DM ME👆♥️🎉..
I love how harsh you are and what a high bar you set for creative excellence. So many viewers become complacent in their mass media consumption and are willing to let slide lazy, pandering “art” in the name of fast-food entertainment that does the job, makes them feel full, yet wasn’t nourishing. But my favorite aspect of your relentless criticism is how it shines the brightest spotlight on art when it is truly good. Bringing accountability to the mediocre, you prime us for the mind-blowing spectacle of great cinema when it (infrequently) comes. I appreciate what an effective gatekeeper you are: “…can’t fool the Drinker.”
The Ellie charachter spits out her lines SO fast that it's like she's reading the minds of the person she's talking to. It feels so plastic.
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My favorite scene so far is after Tess dies, when Joel turns to Ellie and says "Now we truly are the last of us". Perfectly adapted from the game. Sent chills down my spine.
@Luke Donaghy | Gameplay Cinematics Abby will help with that in S2
"IT'S LASTIN TIME!"
Goosebumps
my favorite scene is when the fungus monsters appear and said "it's fungus time"
OMG THE TITLE IN THE SHOW
Man the first episode of season 2 is gonna hit the world hard no pun intended 😅
It seems if you dont like Bella's looks you must be either really shallow or a creep , but the fact is it's human nature to prefer symmetry in all things, from art to natural objects and yes.. faces. From a scientific point of view, theory goes that the human visual system is “hard wired” in a way that makes it much easier to process symmetrical stimuli than asymmetrical stimuli. So the ease of processing symmetrical stimuli would cause us to naturally prefer them to asymmetrical stimuli.
What really showed their hand, to me, was having the villain in ep 5 be a "Karen" Kathleen who is hunting innocent black people and having all the fireflies be POC women. The writers cannot help assigning morality to people with specific race and gender. This will affect the story in predictable ways.
How are you going to have a group of grizzled city raiders be led by someone that looks like a chunky Pam from the Office? Especially 20 years into a post-apocalytic environment. It's off-putting. The lady who sacrificed herself in ep 2 was believable, but that's because there was less HBO writer influence.
At least people who are new to the last of us will get to experience the most hilarious fumble of a season 2 in streaming history!
I see the tidal wave of memes coming over the horizon as we speak...
🎁🎁👆👆👆....